Confirmed with Link: Zucker to the Pens for 1st round pick, Gally, and Addison Part Duex

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LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Quiet Rust has 13 points in 16 games in 2020. Not the same Sid has 14 points in his 10 games back.

Might as well chuck in the towel.

3p3hf8.jpg

Rust
13 points 16 goals allowed?

Sid
14 points 10 goals allowed?

Confusing sign post - I don't blame andy for bailing off that confusing highway!
 

Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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Yeah Washington's been not nearly as good defensively this year from what I've seen. They're relying more on Carlson's Norris season and Ovy chasing the goal scoring record.

they aren’t as good only because they are now chasing the game for Ovi’s record and getting out of position...once that stops, they’ll be much better defensively
 

Turin

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Feb 27, 2018
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they aren’t as good only because they are now chasing the game for Ovi’s record and getting out of position...once that stops, they’ll be much better defensively

I dunno man, they haven’t been as hard to play against under Reirden as they were under Trotz.
 

Ogrezilla

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Jul 5, 2009
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Pittsburgh
My argument is less about a 3rd liner getting 45 points and more about a dedicated 2nd liner getting more than 45 points.

One distinction I'll make between the Pens and your top examples is that we are an exceptionally injury-prone team, and those injuries allow for greater opportunities for a guy like Zucker. Meanwhile a team like Tampa was full of iron men last year.
But those iron men still only had 3 guys over 50 points, right? Being healthy would make it more likely to have more guys break 50 since they'd be more likely to stay on a second line all year. Half of their top 6 finished right where you are saying would be unacceptable for Zucker.
 
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CrosbyMalkin

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Aug 7, 2005
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Zucker was a great pickup and it can't be argued. We had only one really fast forechecking forward in Rust just a little over a year ago. Since that time Rutherford added 4 more fast forechecking wingers to fit Sullivan's system with McCann, Kahun, Tanev, and now Zucker. I love the direction of this team. With all this added speed it makes the Pens one of the fastest teams in the league again with plenty of wingers that can play up and down the lineup.

Next season or if really lucky late in the playoffs this year this team will be loaded at forward.

Zucker-Crosby-Kahun
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Simon-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

That will be a very hard lineup to play against. What is not to love about that group?
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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But those iron men still only had 3 guys over 50 points, right? Being healthy would make it more likely to have more guys break 50 since they'd be more likely to stay on a second line all year. Half of their top 6 finished right where you are saying would be unacceptable for Zucker. 50 points is a pretty rare thing to see from a team's 4th most productive forward.

Right, but Kucherov, Stamkos, and Point missed a grand total of 3 games between them, which doesnt open up a lot of opportunity for lesser lights. The odds of our top 3 scorers being near that durable is roughly 0%.
 

Ogrezilla

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Right, but Kucherov, Stamkos, and Point missed a grand total of 3 games between them, which doesnt open up a lot of opportunity for lesser lights. The odds of our top 3 scorers being near that durable is roughly 0%.
Which will help the 3rd liners who get promoted to their spots produce more. I don't see how Sid or Geno getting injured will ever help their wings produce more unless they take their PP spot. McCann gets a bump when Sid goes out because suddenly he's a top 6 center. That doesn't work for Zucker if he's already in the top 6.

I guess Geno's wingers likely see an uptick in production if Sid goes out. I doubt that's true the other way around though.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Which will help the 3rd liners who get promoted to their spots produce more. I don't see how Sid or Geno getting injured will ever help their wings produce more unless they take their PP spot. McCann gets a bump when Sid goes out because suddenly he's a top 6 center. That doesn't work for Zucker if he's already in the top 6.

I guess Geno's wingers likely see an uptick in production if Sid goes out. I doubt that's true the other way around though.

That's the gist. Given that Zucker's a LH shot, he'd be one of the first options if Sid or Geno went down.

EDIT: Or Guentzel for that matter.
 

Ogrezilla

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That's the gist. Given that Zucker's a LH shot, he'd be one of the first options if Sid or Geno went down.
this year while Guentzel is out, probably. I figure he's behind at least Sid, Geno, Horny, Jake, and probably now Rust for powerplay time from forwards. And maybe a 2nd D depending on who is hurt. It's very hard to predict the kind of powerplay production to expect from a guy who isn't on the healthy top powerplay.

Since he has broken out, he's averaged 40 ES points a year. That's what I'd be using to judge what he does for us. He should finish somewhere in the ballpark of 40 ES points. And even then, he's only broken 40 ES points twice. I think 35-40 ES points and 5-10 powerplay points is a fair prediction for him. There's obviously room to do better, but those would be in line with what he's typically done.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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this year while Guentzel is out, probably. I figure he's behind at least Sid, Geno, Horny, Jake, and probably now Rust for powerplay time from forwards. And maybe a 2nd D depending on who is hurt. It's very hard to predict the kind of powerplay production to expect from a guy who isn't on the healthy top powerplay.

Since he has broken out, he's averaged 40 ES points a year. That's what I'd be using to judge what he does for us. He should finish somewhere in the ballpark of 40 ES points. And even then, he's only broken 40 ES points twice. I think 35-40 ES points and 5-10 powerplay points is a fair prediction for him. There's obviously room to do better, but those would be in line with what he's typically done.

I can get down with that.
 
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Rakell67

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Sep 28, 2017
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Zucker was a great pickup and it can't be argued. We had only one really fast forechecking forward in Rust just a little over a year ago. Since that time Rutherford added 4 more fast forechecking wingers to fit Sullivan's system with McCann, Kahun, Tanev, and now Zucker. I love the direction of this team. With all this added speed it makes the Pens one of the fastest teams in the league again with plenty of wingers that can play up and down the lineup.

Next season or if really lucky late in the playoffs this year this team will be loaded at forward.

Zucker-Crosby-Kahun
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Simon-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

That will be a very hard lineup to play against. What is not to love about that group?
ZAR
 
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mpp9

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Dec 5, 2010
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I actually think Zucker could also be a better fit for Geno and Rust.

Which would be hilarious, Jake looks amazing with Geno now, so would Zucker if tried. Same for Rust.

Yeah. Ain't f***ing Sid over while Jakes out, but two speedy guys with scoring ability and sound defensive games sounds pretty nice for 71.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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this year while Guentzel is out, probably. I figure he's behind at least Sid, Geno, Horny, Jake, and probably now Rust for powerplay time from forwards. And maybe a 2nd D depending on who is hurt. It's very hard to predict the kind of powerplay production to expect from a guy who isn't on the healthy top powerplay.

Since he has broken out, he's averaged 40 ES points a year. That's what I'd be using to judge what he does for us. He should finish somewhere in the ballpark of 40 ES points. And even then, he's only broken 40 ES points twice. I think 35-40 ES points and 5-10 powerplay points is a fair prediction for him. There's obviously room to do better, but those would be in line with what he's typically done.

Yah. Right now he's 6th PP forward with everyone healthy behind Sid, Geno, Rust, Horny, Jake. Guentzel replaces Sid/Geno. Its unknown who'd replace Rust, the answer is possibly even Schultz/Letang. Nobody cares who replaces Horny as our PP is fools' gold without him and we're better off taking a penalty right away to turn it into 4v4. Zucker making his way onto a non-broken PP1 is plausible for now because Jake's down, but who knows.

And of course, while our PP2 does see time on paper, its crap time in effect. We've all seen the opportunities it gets, and it rarely had 5 players on it you actually want on a PP. There's a reason why since 16-17, our 6th highest forward for PP points each season has 5 points, 4 points and 3 points. PP2 is where talent goes to die. It is possible to break double figures there (Bonino did it once) but you've got to have pretty much everything break right for you, get lucky on having more talent than usual (Streit) and be good at PP... which Zucker isn't actually all that much.

I guess my hope would be he can shift his ES/5v5 scoring from a 35-45 range to a 40-50 range, maybe look for 5 PP points. But getting into the bottom end of the new range would still be solid.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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this year while Guentzel is out, probably. I figure he's behind at least Sid, Geno, Horny, Jake, and probably now Rust for powerplay time from forwards. And maybe a 2nd D depending on who is hurt. It's very hard to predict the kind of powerplay production to expect from a guy who isn't on the healthy top powerplay.

Since he has broken out, he's averaged 40 ES points a year. That's what I'd be using to judge what he does for us. He should finish somewhere in the ballpark of 40 ES points. And even then, he's only broken 40 ES points twice. I think 35-40 ES points and 5-10 powerplay points is a fair prediction for him. There's obviously room to do better, but those would be in line with what he's typically done.

Why did we have the debate yesterday, then? We completely agree with what Zucker's expectation should be :laugh:

He should be at about 20 goals and 40 points at ES, with 5 goals and 10 points on special teams (which is realistic for a fringe 1st/2nd PP unit guy, look at Galchenyuk this year). He should be producing like prime Kunitz did with the Penguins, which was 20 ES goals and 40 ES points per 82 games.
 
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