Confirmed with Link: Zucker to the Pens for 1st round pick, Gally, and Addison Part Duex

[ChaosAgent]

Even as someone who was very hard on Phil because of his annoying temper tantrums and refusal to play anywhere but with Geno; I'm blown away by his drop off. He can't have lost that much in the span of a year, I don't think. Not physically anyway. It's gotta be a case of the dude simply not giving one single shit anymore, which was about all he gave while he was here for the final season.

Maybe it really is the wheels falling off though. Many of us said for a long time that Phil was a case of a guy that needed to be dealt a season too soon as opposed to trying to deal him a season too late, because when age finally catches up to him, it's gonna be brutal. Still not sure that's happened and what we're seeing isn't purely mental issues, but who knows. I thought he was as good as gone after the Caps series a couple years ago. Still surprised we let him stick around for one more season. In hindsight, I wonder how dramatically that affected his value.

1) Phil was this bad last year. He played with Geno, got cushy Ozone starts against second pairings and was on a better powerplay (which admittedly he was a part of and one area where we miss him)

2) He should have been dealt after 2018 and quite a few of us said it. His play in that Caps series was a travesty and those 6 games alone should have been enough to jettison him out of Pittsburgh. Too bad people focused on Letang's couple gaffes - when he actually did a lot of good stuff in that series too - and Maatta's gaffe instead of how Phil boofed pucks and ruined plays all over the ice.
Given his production in the RS that year and the halo of HBK and the 2 cups, I believe we could have gotten just as much if not more than we paid Toronto. It was the wrong move to hang onto him into last year and I'm thinking JR knows it. At least we got POJ who could be a good bottom-pairing guy and maybe make the top-4 in a couple years out of it.

"Nice Guy. Tries Hard. Loves the Game."

Nice Guy. Child prodigy who never worked hard enough on rounding out his game or his body to be as good as he coulda been. Tries hard sometimes, for a while. We got that for the calendar years 2016 through 2017 and it was great.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Would have been suspicious to other GMs if he tried to flip him right away.

Like everyone else I wish Kessel didn’t nix the move for Zucker and this team would be stacked right now, but he did.

As I said above, the Kessel NTC helped them immensely, but bit them hard back.

As fans, we can’t bitch too hard since it helped bring two cups.

Nice to dream about him going to Minny though... hard not to.

Let alone the rumored Rask/JJ part of the trade. Rask may suck but he wouldn't damage the team to nearly the extent that JJ has and will continue doing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

In any event, I've wanted Zucker for a long time. I was stoked when we were linked to him this summer, bummed when Phil nixed the deal, and then stoked again when we rounded back and found a way to get him from Minny in the end.

Perfect fit. I still think he should be with Geno and Rust long-term, and I think that line will probably be one of the best in the NHL. Now, to find that 2LD for Marino and the 1RW for Sid and Jake.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let alone the rumored Rask/JJ part of the trade. Rask may suck but he wouldn't damage the team to nearly the extent that JJ has and will continue doing.

Eh I really don't know about that one.

Rask is a $4 million player who's bad on faceoffs, only gives you about 20 points, doesn't kill penalties and isn't very good defensively. I'd rather have JJ over that because JJ has at least shown he can be fine in a bottom pair role.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Eh I really don't know about that one.

Rask is a $4 million player who's bad on faceoffs, only gives you about 20 points, doesn't kill penalties and isn't very good defensively. I'd rather have JJ over that because JJ has at least shown he can be fine in a bottom pair role.

We saw that earlier this year. Let's see if we see it again now. JJ-Schultz seems like a disaster at this point. And it's on both of them.

Rask sucks but we don't have a coach/GM who are committed to "making Victor Rask work" and would have no problem sitting him in the pressbox if he can't hack it. No matter how much JJ struggles he'll play. I'd rather have $4M in cap sitting on the sidelines than actively hurting the cause on the ice. Let's see if JJ can get back to not actively hurting the team; I was pleasantly surprised earlier this year that he wasn't.

 

[Peat]

Only one way to find out. We've never seen the 3 together.

However, we know what Sheary is. He's not the answer.

Given both guys have played RW before I'm not sure you do have to try it. I'm more hedging about I might be misremembering Guentzel/that we've only got Minnesota fans word for Zucker than thinking it's actually a goer.

And given Malkin's line is no less important than Crosby's, I don't see the point of forcing a player onto their weak side just to move the gap in the top 6 around.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think it's easier to bury/shelter a miserable forward than a miserable blueliner. That being said, I don't know if I'd have done JJ for Rask.

JJ's terrible, but Rask is terrible too, and more expensive. Though he has one less year on his deal than JJ, so I suppose he'd be an easier guy to dump on some team near the cap floor.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think it's easier to bury/shelter a miserable forward than a miserable blueliner. That being said, I don't know if I'd have done JJ for Rask.

JJ's terrible, but Rask is terrible too, and more expensive. Though he has one less year on his deal than JJ, so I suppose he'd be an easier guy to dump on some team near the cap floor.

I think the team would be willing to use a buyout on Rask.

Not so on JJ. They've doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on him at every opportunity.

And to your point, you can bury/shelter a miserable forward. We did it with Galchenyuk for that matter.

 

[Peat]

Swap JJ for Rask and you maybe don't have Tanev because of cap/roster space.

 

[Night Shift]

In any event, I've wanted Zucker for a long time. I was stoked when we were linked to him this summer, bummed when Phil nixed the deal, and then stoked again when we rounded back and found a way to get him from Minny in the end.

Perfect fit. I still think he should be with Geno and Rust long-term, and I think that line will probably be one of the best in the NHL. Now, to find that 2LD for Marino and the 1RW for Sid and Jake.

I think Zucker will likely slide into that spot because I think once Guentzel comes back you'll have Sheary and Simon rotating on L1.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Let alone the rumored Rask/JJ part of the trade. Rask may suck but he wouldn't damage the team to nearly the extent that JJ has and will continue doing.

I heard that part wasn’t true, but who knows or cares to be honest.

I’d have been happy either way.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the team would be willing to use a buyout on Rask.

Not so on JJ. They've doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on him at every opportunity.

And to your point, you can bury/shelter a miserable forward. We did it with Galchenyuk for that matter.

Sure, but you're still trading a miserable player for another miserable player.

I don't think this team does buyouts, imo. It just doesn't seem like a Penguins thing to do, regardless of how badly the guy is playing. I just assume a buyout simply is not, and never was, an option for anyone in this organization.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Sure, but you're still trading a miserable player for another miserable player.

I don't think this team does buyouts, imo. It just doesn't seem like a Penguins thing to do, regardless of how badly the guy is playing. I just assume a buyout simply is not, and never was, an option for anyone in this organization.

Even holding onto him and HSing him or bribing someone to take him would have been more likely than it is for JJ. Not after the org attacked Columbus for their evaluation & usage of JJ.

I'd rather have a $4M useless forward and just not use him than have an actively harmful $3.25M defenseman. But the jury is out on whether 3rd-pair JJ is just not-harmful enough. Something tells me JJ & Schultz are the most likely thing to sink this team in April-May (in addition the the East being really freaking good).

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Even holding onto him and HSing him or bribing someone to take him would have been more likely than it is for JJ. Not after the org attacked Columbus for their evaluation & usage of JJ.

I'd rather have a $4M useless forward and just not use him than have an actively harmful $3.25M defenseman. But the jury is out on whether 3rd-pair JJ is just not-harmful enough. Something tells me JJ & Schultz are the most likely thing to sink this team in April-May (in addition the the East being really freaking good).

I don't necessarily disagree, but Rask is simply JJ at forward. Absolutely awful players making way more than they're worth for several more years.

I don't have any faith in any of our blueliners outside of Letang, Marino, Dumo and to a lesser extent Riikola as a bottom pairing guy. Petts has had a rough season and looks completely lost above bottom pairing duty. JJ's in the same boat. Schultz has been a non-entity since our last Cup. Trotman and Ruh are AHL-fodder.

Basically, what I'm saying is, I don't think you accomplish anything by switching your problem player from blueline to forward. This team doesn't buy guys out, and very, very rarely scratches vets. Rask would be playing, and he'd be complete garbage. JJ for Rask wasn't a win, imo. At least with JJ, he's semi-competent in a limited role/PK guy. With Rask, you'd be paying $4 million to essentially have a reserve forward for 2 more years after this one. I think JJ is tradeable, for what its worth. I just don't think JR or Sully see him as the problem that he is, and therefore have no desire to move him.

We're getting off topic though, and mods are not huge fans of that. Zucker's great. I've wanted him for a long time and was stoked when we landed him.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I love that the narrative that Kessel is out of shape persists even though he was known to always top the Leafs' roster when they took their conditioning tests.

Sometimes, players just get old, ya know. Kessel has a lot of miles on him.

 

[K Fleur]

The year is 2035. The world population has been mostly wiped out from the Corona virus. Chaos has unfolded. One thing has remained constant; there are still people posting about Alex Galchenyuk’s potential.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Zucker's great. I've wanted him for a long time and was stoked when we landed him.

I've come around on Zucker. Softer than I'd like but the speed and hands are NIIIIIIICCCCCCEEEEE. And he at least has defensive awareness and effort.

I despise Sheary on the other side of the thing but hopefully MS comes to his senses there soon. Or maybe there is some msytical Sheary magic that Sid & him will collectively unleash.

 

[Turin]

I love that the narrative that Kessel is out of shape persists even though he was known to always top the Leafs' roster when they took their conditioning tests.

Sometimes, players just get old, ya know. Kessel has a lot of miles on him.

Kessel probably posted great results in his prime for strength and explosiveness. Endurance was probably really bad, and now that he’s past his prime his explosiveness and reflexes are leaving as well. He wasn’t one to take conditioning particularly seriously compared to the elites. It was fine for a time, but he aged like milk.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I love that the narrative that Kessel is out of shape persists even though he was known to always top the Leafs' roster when they took their conditioning tests.

Sometimes, players just get old, ya know. Kessel has a lot of miles on him.

Maybe he's in secretly great shape. Can you link those stories BTW? I'd be interested.

But I think he rested on the laurels of his wrist shot especially with that stupid stick of his. How often could he fail to execute basic plays or receive passes and we had to hear "well, ya know, his stick flex..." How bout he work on developing an elite wrister without being dependent on a piece of equipment that hampers the rest of his performance?

Whatever, it's over now. Thanks for Jan 2016 through December 2017, Phil.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I've come around on Zucker. Softer than I'd like but the speed and hands are NIIIIIIICCCCCCEEEEE. And he at least has defensive awareness and effort.

I despise Sheary on the other side of the thing but hopefully MS comes to his senses there soon. Or maybe there is some msytical Sheary magic that Sid & him will collectively unleash.

Still not sure why we did the Sheary+E-Rod deal. The only reason that makes sense is that JR and/or Sully specifically wanted him back.

As for Zucker, he's just another Rust. He'll be a streaky scorer but his speed and ability to chip in offensively without being a liability without the puck are exactly why I wanted him so badly. Perfect fit.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Still not sure why we did the Sheary+E-Rod deal. The only reason that makes sense is that JR and/or Sully specifically wanted him back.

As for Zucker, he's just another Rust. He'll be a streaky scorer but his speed and ability to chip in offensively without being a liability without the puck are exactly why I wanted him so badly. Perfect fit.

Yes and no on Zucker-Rust. He has more top-end skill than Rust but less jam and disruption. Rust is a grinder who developed skill. Zucker's a skill player who is willing go try to grind.

He's definitely not a liability away from the play because he is smart & fast. I'm happy we have both.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yes and no on Zucker-Rust. He has more top-end skill than Rust but less jam and disruption. Rust is a grinder who developed skill. Zucker's a skill player who is willing go try to grind.

He's definitely not a liability away from the play because he is smart & fast. I'm happy we have both.

I don't think Rust is the same player he was several years ago when he broke into the league. There's not really any jam or physicality to his game these days, imo.

In any event, I really hope we put the two of them with Geno moving forward. Keeps Jake with Sid, which has been fantastic for years, and gives us an unbelievably good 1B line.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

I wanna see them both with Sid. Load up that 1st line.

If all healthy id rather see one of Guentzel or Zucker on the top LW. And Rust up on the RW first line. Guentzel showed he can play with both Sid and Geno this season when Sid went down.

Zucker - Crosby - Rust
Guentzel - Malkin - ?

Or

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Zucker - Malkin - ?

Even leaving who is RW in question next season for Geno, that a great top six that would just terrorize teams D pairs. That’s 5 guys that can all enter zone and hold a puck deep and create chances.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't think Rust is the same player he was several years ago when he broke into the league. There's not really any jam or physicality to his game these days, imo.

In any event, I really hope we put the two of them with Geno moving forward. Keeps Jake with Sid, which has been fantastic for years, and gives us an unbelievably good 1B line.

I think with Geno & Zucker you would see a more physical/crash-bang game from Rust.

We'll hopefully see it next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Rust and Zucker should be the wing combo because Guentzel is way better than either of them, so putting your 2nd and 3rd best wingers together while you're relying on Guentzel-Crosby or Guentzel-Malkin carrying the other line makes the most sense to me. That probably means you go with Guentzel-Crosby-XXXX and Zucker-Malkin-Rust, even though I do think Zucker and Crosby fit really well together.