Speculation: Zawaski: Hawks have Puljujarvi "on their radar"

[Blackhawkswincup]

Jesse Puljujarvi's stubborn streak has not just been in evidence around the negotiating table: 9 Things

After reading this its pretty clear this guy shouldnt be on anyones radar.

Its so bad teammates are telling the coaches they dont want to play with him.

Reads like a hit piece to me on a kid who fans have already turned on

And considering there were many players worse then Puljujarvi on Oilers this "Didn't want to play with him" is rather laughable

Name the guys who didn't want to play with him if that is case not this no source BS

Did the ever amazing Milan Lucic not want to play with him? How about the pathetic only there to cash check Kyle Brodziak? Was it Mr Zero Goals Tobias Reider?

Also why would Ken Holland hold onto kid who he had no connection to and is so terrible? Would Holland not be glad to move on from previous GM failure?

 

[ChiHawk21]

dear ****ing God no....

im not very informed on puljujarvi so correct me if you will but it seems then Pulj and nylander are in similar positions (underachieving high picks coming from bad developmental teams) except puljujarvi is younger and you were okay with a larger gamble on nylander. care to explain or you just think puljujarvi is a complete dud and nylander has something?

 

[AmericanDream]

im not very informed on puljujarvi so correct me if you will but it seems then Pulj and nylander are in similar positions (underachieving high picks coming from bad developmental teams) except puljujarvi is younger and you were okay with a larger gamble on nylander. care to explain or you just think puljujarvi is a complete dud and nylander has something?

I think Pool Party lacks in a number of areas, compete and IQ are two major ones..we have enough of these types, I can be open to Nylander and not Pool Party..not rocket science.

 

[piteus]

Reads like a hit piece to me on a kid who fans have already turned on

And considering there were many players worse then Puljujarvi on Oilers this "Didn't want to play with him" is rather laughable

Name the guys who didn't want to play with him if that is case not this no source BS

Did the ever amazing Milan Lucic not want to play with him? How about the pathetic only there to cash check Kyle Brodziak? Was it Mr Zero Goals Tobias Reider?

Also why would Ken Holland hold onto kid who he had no connection to and is so terrible? Would Holland not be glad to move on from previous GM failure?

I would agree with you ... but Puljujarvi's past performance doesn't help refute the rumor. At least when Tyler Seguin's "character" got questioned, his on the ice performance said otherwise.

 

[jaysoneil]

Sikura and Perlini for picks please.

 

[GameChanger]

Hello guys! Just one message from me, but I'd like to mention a couple of things about Puljujarvi. I've been told the Edmonton Journal writes whatever helps the organization, so maybe the last article should be seen in that light. Or if you take them seriously that could also mean Pulju is still a heck of a prospect as they've been high on him earlier.

When you evaluate a player one way is to look at the point totals. Another is to take in the consideration the TOI and the amount of PP usage.

If you look at the latter one there's also been some positives. During the first two seasons (at 18 and 19 years old) Pulju's ppg/60 was the 2nd best and the 3rd best of the team. So it's possible with more PP usage he could possibly help in that field.

During the 2nd season he was the best scoring winger until March (his point production stopped when he was put with Lucic and Strome). This year his total stats look really bad, but one natural winger (altogether four players) actually had clearly better /60 numbers. So while the stats were bad it was the same with almost the whole team.

 

[ChiHawk21]

I think Pool Party lacks in a number of areas, compete and IQ are two major ones..we have enough of these types, I can be open to Nylander and not Pool Party..not rocket science.

i asked a question....
so smug

 

[piteus]

Hello guys! Just one message from me, but I'd like to mention a couple of things about Puljujarvi. I've been told the Edmonton Journal writes whatever helps the organization, so maybe the last article should be seen in that light. Or if you take them seriously that could also mean Pulju is still a heck of a prospect as they've been high on him earlier.

When you evaluate a player one way is to look at the point totals. Another is to take in the consideration the TOI and the amount of PP usage.

If you look at the latter one there's also been some positives. During the first two seasons (at 18 and 19 years old) Pulju's ppg/60 was the 2nd best and the 3rd best of the team. So it's possible with more PP usage he could possibly help in that field.

During the 2nd season he was the best scoring winger until March (his point production stopped when he was put with Lucic and Strome). This year his total stats look really bad, but one natural winger (altogether four players) actually had clearly better /60 numbers. So while the stats were bad it was the same with almost the whole team.

Why would the Edmonton Journal write a hit piece on a prospect the Oilers are trying to trade ... if they are trying to help the organization? That article just destroyed Puljujarvi's value. Now a team can get him for peanuts.

 

[AmericanDream]

i asked a question....
so smug

I really wasn't trying to be, I made my thoughts known prior in the thread, so thought you were trying to dig for something not there. I think we have enough question marks as is, let's roll with what we have and go from there..

 

[GameChanger]

Why would the Edmonton Journal write a hit piece on a prospect the Oilers are trying to trade ... if they are trying to help the organization? That article just destroyed Puljujarvi's value. Now a team can get him for peanuts.

That's also a good question. Maybe you're right, but it could be that they know Puljujarvi will be traded and thus an article like that will protect the new GM and the others. Whatever value they get for Puljujarvi will seem more reasonable now.

It will also get fans prepared for the move and instead of blaming the organization for failing with developing the player they can now blame just the player.

However, I didn't put my words very well. I don't think they write just to support the organization, but that may play a part. The EJ has been very positive about Puljujarvi, but I was often told it can't be taken seriously, but now the same guys don't even question the last article.

I think Pulju's deal may include a conditional pick or two. That way the risk for the other team will be less, but if things click and Puljujarvi manages to play like through the first part of his 2nd season (or he will manage to keep those ppg/60 numbers with more PP time), the Oilers will actually get fairer value for him.

 

[piteus]

That's also a good question. Maybe you're right, but it could be that they know Puljujarvi will be traded and thus an article like that will protect the new GM and the others. Whatever value they get for Puljujarvi will seem more reasonable now.

It will also get fans prepared for the move and instead of blaming the organization for failing with developing the player they can now blame just the player.

However, I didn't put my words very well. I don't think they write just to support the organization, but that may play a part. The EJ has been very positive about Puljujarvi, but I was often told it can't be taken seriously, but now the same guys don't even question the last article.

I think Pulju's deal may include a conditional pick or two. That way the risk for the other team will be less, but if things click and Puljujarvi manages to play like through the first part of his 2nd season (or he will manage to keep those ppg/60 numbers with more PP time), the Oilers will actually get fairer value for him.

The new GM will not get blamed for the past regime's mistakes. His first year is a chance to get rid of dead weight without judgement. It's like that in any professional sport. The new GM did not draft Puljujarvi.

I'm guessing the Edmonton Journal is the biggest paper in Edmonton? And if this is a beat writer, he's not going to jeopardize his relationships in the locker room by writing blatant lies about a certain player. I'm sure the source is a real player. However, we don't know if that player has a ax to grind with Puljujarvi.

This story was buried last in a "longer" article. I don't think it was an outright hit piece. It was almost written as matter of fact ... the player's are almost relieved that Puljujarvi demanded a trade.

Puljujarvi obviously has physical talent. He was drafted #4 for a reason. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery. However, that article just destroyed his perceived value. Initially, posters on this board were willing to trade Perlini for him. After reading the article, posters are far more hesitant. That article did not help Edmonton.

 

[Giovi]

Reads like a hit piece to me on a kid who fans have already turned on

And considering there were many players worse then Puljujarvi on Oilers this "Didn't want to play with him" is rather laughable

Name the guys who didn't want to play with him if that is case not this no source BS

Did the ever amazing Milan Lucic not want to play with him? How about the pathetic only there to cash check Kyle Brodziak? Was it Mr Zero Goals Tobias Reider?

Also why would Ken Holland hold onto kid who he had no connection to and is so terrible? Would Holland not be glad to move on from previous GM failure?

No credible journalist is going to name the players. Given that the journalist was talking about Puljujarvi's positioning, especially on the pp, and what other players were encountering when they tried to talk to him about it, its not hard to figure out (if your reading comprehension is at least average) that the players in question were other guys who have spent time on the pp.

 

[GameChanger]

The new GM will not get blamed for the past regime's mistakes. His first year is a chance to get rid of dead weight without judgement. It's like that in any professional sport. The new GM did not draft Puljujarvi.

I'm guessing the Edmonton Journal is the biggest paper in Edmonton? And if this is a beat writer, he's not going to jeopardize his relationships in the locker room by writing blatant lies about a certain player. I'm sure the source is a real player. However, we don't know if that player has a ax to grind with Puljujarvi.

This story was buried last in a "longer" article. I don't think it was an outright hit piece. It was almost written as matter of fact ... the player's are almost relieved that Puljujarvi demanded a trade.

Puljujarvi obviously has physical talent. He was drafted #4 for a reason. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery. However, that article just destroyed his perceived value. Initially, posters on this board were willing to trade Perlini for him. After reading the article, posters are far more hesitant. That article did not help Edmonton.

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote the other side of the coin is that if we believe Edmonton Journal and that particular writer have inside info and write things as they are, the team (and especially McLellan) have treated him in a bad way. There's many articles about that, too.

There's dozens of, maybe hundreds of posts making fun of or being angry at McLellan for benching Pulju so easily. For almost two seasons he was benched for the first mistake he made, even after long periods with practically no mistakes at all. There's plenty of evidence about that in this forum. I knew that would affect Pulju's game and it did as he could play good hockey for a while, but got seemingly more scared after he'd made a clear mistake.

McLellan seemed to make Pulju his scapegoat. He simply didn't seem to like Puljujarvi as he never gave him an opportunity to play his own PP role, in which he'd been terrific before coming to the NA. Not even when the team's PP was among the worst in the league and Puljujarvi was among top20 scorers (/60) in the NHL.

Yes, for a few months he actually did well during that season. The problems started when the coach put him with Lucic and Strome and kept neglecting him as a shooter's/QB'ing role on the PP.

 

[piteus]

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote the other side of the coin is that if we believe Edmonton Journal and that particular writer have inside info and write things as they are, the team (and especially McLellan) have treated him in a bad way. There's many articles about that, too.

There's dozens of, maybe hundreds of posts making fun of or being angry at McLellan for benching Pulju so easily. For almost two seasons he was benched for the first mistake he made, even after long periods with practically no mistakes at all. There's plenty of evidence about that in this forum. I knew that would affect Pulju's game and it did as he could play good hockey for a while, but got seemingly more scared after he'd made a clear mistake.

McLellan seemed to make Pulju his scapegoat. He simply didn't seem to like Puljujarvi as he never gave him an opportunity to play his own PP role, in which he'd been terrific before coming to the NA. Not even when the team's PP was among the worst in the league and Puljujarvi was among top20 scorers (/60) in the NHL.

Yes, for a few months he actually did well during that season. The problems started when the coach put him with Lucic and Strome and kept neglecting him as a shooter's/QB'ing role on the PP.

You might be right ... but the article didn't do Edmonton any favors. It hurt Puljujavri's perceived value. Edmonton isn't going to get maximum value for Puljujavri. Not only did we witness a lack of performance (even with McJesus), but also demanded a trade and threatened to go back to Europe. Now add to the perception that teammates think he's selfish. Puljujarvi value can't get any lower.

Perhaps Edmonton doesn't care because they are desperate to get rid of him. That implies a lot.

 

[GameChanger]

You might be right ... but the article didn't do Edmonton any favors. It hurt Puljujavri's perceived value. Edmonton isn't going to get maximum value for Puljujavri. Not only did we witness a lack of performance (even with McJesus), but also demanded a trade and threatened to go back to Europe. Now add to the perception that teammates think he's selfish. Puljujarvi value can't get any lower.

Perhaps Edmonton doesn't care because they are desperate to get rid of him. That implies a lot.

I see your point and agree the article didn't do the Oilers favours. It maybe did in some ways to individuals working for the Oilers, not the team itself. I just correct one thing, Puljujarvi's production with McDavid wasn't too bad. At least not in the first two years. I haven't seen the stats from the 3rd one, but obviously they're low as the totals are so low. But it's worth noting every single winger (besides Chiasson who also got more opportunities) made pretty similar points or even less. The 3rd year was totally incredible as only four forwards scored barely any points.

After two seasons someone actually made a comparison, which showed Pulju's numbers were comparable or even better when they played with good centers. The problem wasn't his production with them, the problem was his lack of production with worse players (like Lucic who was his most common linemate) and lack of PP usage. Like I wrote he was the 2nd and 3rd best PP scorer (/60), but his PP usage was too low for it to have a huge effect on the stats.

 

[GameChanger]

I hope you don't mind (I'll step out now), but here's the info and a link:


From Lowetide's blog writer calling himself as armchairgm answering to jtblack:

ARMCHAIRGM says:
October 19, 2018 at 12:51 pm

jtblack: We often use Pastrnak, Nylander and Ratanen as some of JP’s comparables. Well, we can stop doing that now.

Points/60 with skilled centers (TOI together)

DRAFT +1

Rantanen w/ MacKinnon: 0.00 (0:43)
Rantanen w/ Duchene: 0.00 (29:09)
Pastrnak w/ Bergeron: 1.31 (45:49)
Pastrnak w/ Krejci: 2.55 (141:15)
Nylander: NO NHL TOI
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 2.86 (84:01)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 1.67 (107:28)

Nylander didn’t even make the NHL, Puljujarvi’s numbers were very good in limited minutes.

DRAFT +2
Rantanen w/ MacKinnon: 1.66 (684:55)
Rantanen w/ Duchene: 0.86 (350:34)
Pastrnak w/ Bergeron: 1.96 (61:19)
Pastrnak w/ Krejci: 2.04 (499:06)
Nylander w/ Kadri: 0.00 (4:57)
Nylander w/ Bozak: 0.00 (1.45)
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 1.87 (256:57)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 2.37 (101:22)
Nylander is still at zero.

Puljujarvi’s numbers are close to Pastrnak’s, except TOI. Rantanen, whose production is well below Puljujarvi’s, is getting over 1000 minutes with skill centers! Opportunity is everything here.

DRAFT +3

Rantanen w/ MacKinnon: 2.28 (946:52)
Rantanen w/ Duchene: 0.00 (12:48)
Pastrnak w/ Bergeron: 2.22 (541:19)
Pastrnak w/ Krejci: 1.54 (429:40)
Nylander w/ Kadri: 2.17 (360:06)
Nylander w/ Matthews: 1.82 (624:42)
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: TBD
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: TBD

So those 1000 minutes Rantanen got in the top-6 paid off the next year, he’s now scoring at a 1st line pace. Pastrnak and Nylander are doing well too. Note, however, that NONE of these players are scoring better in draft+3 than Puljujarvi did in draft+2.

Puljujarvi is at the top of the class. In fact, even JP’s draft+1 results are right up there. He just lacks opportunity.

And the source

Lowetide.ca | New Sensation

 

[piteus]

I see your point and agree the article didn't do the Oilers favours. It maybe did in some ways to individuals working for the Oilers, not the team itself. I just correct one thing, Puljujarvi's production with McDavid wasn't too bad. At least not in the first two years. I haven't seen the stats from the 3rd one, but obviously they're low as the totals are so low. But it's worth noting every single winger (besides Chiasson who also got more opportunities) made pretty similar points or even less. The 3rd year was totally incredible as only four forwards scored barely any points.

After two seasons someone actually made a comparison, which showed Pulju's numbers were comparable or even better when they played with good centers. The problem wasn't his production with them, the problem was his lack of production with worse players (like Lucic who was his most common linemate) and lack of PP usage. Like I wrote he was the 2nd and 3rd best PP scorer (/60), but his PP usage was too low for it to have a huge effect on the stats.

That's kind of like Perlini ... but Perlini did perform with really good offensive players. He sucked when asked to carry a line ... or at least be the focal point offensively.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Pulju sounds like a mistake.

 

[giza]

If we include Sikura, we should get a draft pick too. Other than the age difference, P for P is a pretty even trade.

 

[piteus]

If we include Sikura, we should get a draft pick too. Other than the age difference, P for P is a pretty even trade.

It's not an even trade. Perlini scored 45 goals in 199 games. The only caveat is that Perlini might cost $500K more to sign than Puljujarvi. Furthermore, Puljujarvi could go back to Europe if he does NOT get the contract he wants.

If anything, Edmonton needs to give the Hawks a draft pick for a Perlini / Puljujarvi trade.

The only reason the Hawks might give Perlini for Puljujarvi is that they feel bad about the Manning / Caggiula trade. What a disaster of a trade from Edmonton. Most GMs don't want to embarrass another organization like that ... so they can keep the lines of communication open on future deals.

 

[Giovi]

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote the other side of the coin is that if we believe Edmonton Journal and that particular writer have inside info and write things as they are, the team (and especially McLellan) have treated him in a bad way. There's many articles about that, too.

There's dozens of, maybe hundreds of posts making fun of or being angry at McLellan for benching Pulju so easily. For almost two seasons he was benched for the first mistake he made, even after long periods with practically no mistakes at all. There's plenty of evidence about that in this forum. I knew that would affect Pulju's game and it did as he could play good hockey for a while, but got seemingly more scared after he'd made a clear mistake.

McLellan seemed to make Pulju his scapegoat. He simply didn't seem to like Puljujarvi as he never gave him an opportunity to play his own PP role, in which he'd been terrific before coming to the NA. Not even when the team's PP was among the worst in the league and Puljujarvi was among top20 scorers (/60) in the NHL.

Yes, for a few months he actually did well during that season. The problems started when the coach put him with Lucic and Strome and kept neglecting him as a shooter's/QB'ing role on the PP.

Not sure how it works in Edmonton, but for the rest of the league, the player plays the role the coach expects him to, not the one the player chooses.

 

[GameChanger]

Not sure how it works in Edmonton, but for the rest of the league, the player plays the role the coach expects him to, not the one the player chooses.

Yes of course, but coaches can be wrong in the NHL, too. McLellan was as stubborn as it gets and he seemed to see Puljujarvi as a grinder who either doesn't get PP usage or plays in front of the goal in a position he'd never had before.

As a junior Pulju was possibly the best PP shooter/QB'ing specialist (in that combined role) of his age group, but the only time he got to play in that spot was in one game (or even one shift?) in the 3rd season. He created a goal immediately, but was back on the bench/front of the goal after it.

So while it's true the player needs to play well enough to deserve a chance it's damn hard if the coach sees you as a grinder and doesn't give you any PP time even when you're the best goal scorer of the team. That can eat a young player's confidence.