Zaitsev with Rielly

[Slyfox]

Rielly - Gardiner
Dermott - Zaitsev
Hainsey - Holl

yeah I said it

This would be great.

 

[BlueForever75]

Reilly-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Hainsey
Dermott-Oz

Reilly is better defensively then Gardiner will ever be. So the gap of Zaitsev's ineffectiveness will close. Hainsey is better defensively then Zaitsev is and will help Gardiner roam and be the player he needs to be, having Hainsey stay at home and clean up his mistakes.

Although I hate the fact that Gardiner is getting booed. They are targeting the correct player. He is the core of the issues with our second pairing, not Zaitsev. People want to blast Zaitsev, but Im sorry you are only as good as your partner. And its been Gardiner that has taken a step back the past couple of years and is a shadow of his old self. This is why Zaitsev seems inefficient.

 

[Buds17]

If it's a simple switch of Hainsey for Zaitsev, I don't feel strongly about it either way. Probably doesn't happen though unless they view the Rielly-Zaitsev pairing as a longer term option.

 

[Buds17]

delete

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Reilly-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Hainsey
Dermott-Oz

Reilly is better defensively then Gardiner will ever be. So the gap of Zaitsev's ineffectiveness will close. Hainsey is better defensively then Zaitsev is and will help Gardiner roam and be the player he needs to be, having Hainsey stay at home and clean up his mistakes.

Although I hate the fact that Gardiner is getting booed. They are targeting the correct player. He is the core of the issues with our second pairing, not Zaitsev. People want to blast Zaitsev, but Im sorry you are only as good as your partner. And its been Gardiner that has taken a step back the past couple of years and is a shadow of his old self. This is why Zaitsev seems inefficient.

Watch them close they both are very bad defensive defenders. Together it is a total land bomb on the defensive end. They are both ok/good in neutral zone and the offensive end Gards is superior. Neither of these guys can handle any kind of heavy forecheck. They are a tourn over machine when fore checking and neither can get the puck back.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

How can we expose Zaitsev worse? Put him with a worse defensive player in harder minutes!

Rielly should be playing with either Dermott or Gardiner full-time.

Uh... Rielly is miles better than Gardiner defensively.

Plus he'd probably not even get much more ice time, and much of what it would be would probably be easier than what he has to deal with right now.

 

[BlueForever75]

In the offensive zone only 1 of our defensemen are any good, and the issue is that he is approaching 40 years old and is over used.

Every single one of our other dmen have their issues. Reilly does, Gardiner does, Zaitsev does, Dermott does, and Oz does. If I had to list in order which of those dmen are better in the dzone it would be as follows:

Reilly
Dermott
Zaitsev
Gardiner
Oz

Im sorry but Gardiner is weak. The weakest of the bunch. Yes he can elude the forecheck at times and make the exit passes. But every good thing he does he matches it with a bad thing. Put Gardiner with the best defensive dman (Hainsey) and call it a day. Then and only then will you see the player we have all grown to love over the years. I am not saying he is useless, but he needs to be protected. Zaitsev is far better in his zone, more physical and strong on the stick then Gardiner will ever be. This is why he's employed on the PK. He isn't a total disaster, but together with Gardiner its a nightmare.


Reilly-Dermott
Gardiner-Hainsey
Oz-Zaitsev

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It did not work out perfectly in their first year, but both have improved a lot since then. I would give it another shot, if the Leafs do not plan on moving Gardiner altogether, and let Hainsey babysit Gardiner. Hainsey is more suited for that role than Zaitsev anyways, while Zaitsev gives Rielly a more skilled, but still reliable, partner who should be able to keep up a little bit better than Hainsey.

 

[rumman]

The top 4 could use a shakeup and Z has worked with Rielly before, he could return to his rookie year form at least. Meanwhile Hainsey gets demoted to the second or third pairing where he should have been in the first place and Gardiner can get an opportunity to play with someone who fits better with him than Zaitsev

wherever Zaitev ends up as long as he's not paired with Jake is fine by me, they don't work as a pair.

 

[rumman]

It did not work out perfectly in their first year, but both have improved a lot since then. I would give it another shot, if the Leafs do not plan on moving Gardiner altogether, and let Hainsey babysit Gardiner. Hainsey is more suited for that role than Zaitsev anyways, while Zaitsev gives Rielly a more skilled, but still reliable, partner who should be able to keep up a little bit better than Hainsey.

I'd say Zaitev has regressed since his 1st year.

 

[Trapper]

Need a legit top 4 D to start.
Rielly...D
Gardiner...Hainsey
Dermott...Zaitsev-Oz

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd say Zaitev has regressed since his 1st year.

Offensively maybe, but not defensively.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Theres no harm in trying, and if it doesn't work, you just put Hainsey back

Rielly - - - - - - Zaitsev
Gardiner - - -Hainsey
Dermott - Ozhiganov​

 

[Not My Tempo]

In the offensive zone only 1 of our defensemen are any good, and the issue is that he is approaching 40 years old and is over used.

Every single one of our other dmen have their issues. Reilly does, Gardiner does, Zaitsev does, Dermott does, and Oz does. If I had to list in order which of those dmen are better in the dzone it would be as follows:

Reilly
Dermott
Zaitsev
Gardiner
Oz

Im sorry but Gardiner is weak. The weakest of the bunch. Yes he can elude the forecheck at times and make the exit passes. But every good thing he does he matches it with a bad thing. Put Gardiner with the best defensive dman (Hainsey) and call it a day. Then and only then will you see the player we have all grown to love over the years. I am not saying he is useless, but he needs to be protected. Zaitsev is far better in his zone, more physical and strong on the stick then Gardiner will ever be. This is why he's employed on the PK. He isn't a total disaster, but together with Gardiner its a nightmare.


Reilly-Dermott
Gardiner-Hainsey
Oz-Zaitsev

Hainsey is not good defensively at all. He just stands there and flips the puck out whenever he gets the chance. He plays way too passive. Making no decision is sometimes just as bad as making a bad decision.

 

[Morgs]

Uh... Rielly is miles better than Gardiner defensively.

Plus he'd probably not even get much more ice time, and much of what it would be would probably be easier than what he has to deal with right now.

Lol, no. Rielly is miles better offensively as he's one of the best D in the entire NHL at individually creating chances 5v5 (only behind Byfuglien, Hedman, Hamilton, & Josi for ixGF/60)

but considering him "not good" defensively this season is probably being nice about it (all rankings for D over 400 minutes, 173 defenseman).

rel.CA/60 - 170th
relT.CA/60 - 162nd
rel.xGA/60 - 172nd
relT.xGA/60 - 170th

So yeah, we've been bleeding shot attempts and great chances with Rielly on the ice. But, he's also so good offensively it doesn't really matter. Yes, he could probably become more average at defense (like last season) if he wasn't strapped to a guy that can't skate anymore but he's really always not been one to be good at supressing shots/chances against.

Gardiner is, and always has been much better defensively even during the time he's carried these guys around:

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Hainsey is not good defensively at all. He just stands there and flips the puck out whenever he gets the chance. He plays way too passive. Making no decision is sometimes just as bad as making a bad decision.

You very rarely see Hainsey on the wrong side of the puck, letting his man get to net in behind him, etc etc he does all the little things right as a DEFENDER. The best defenders you don't notice at all and that's the way it should be. Unfortunately he has lost a step or two and as with everyone when they get older their conditioning goes faster so it is getting harder and harder for him to get in the right spots. We need 2 younger Hainsey's.

 

[Trapper]

All of this is pretty much shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.
The D isn’t going to last through the playoffs.
For once it’s time to get serious and commit to finding a quality top 4 D. And that means you’re going to have to trade something decent to significant.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Lol, no. Rielly is miles better offensively as he's one of the best D in the entire NHL at individually creating chances 5v5 (only behind Byfuglien, Hedman, Hamilton, & Josi for ixGF/60)

but considering him "not good" defensively this season is probably being nice about it (all rankings for D over 400 minutes, 173 defenseman).

rel.CA/60 - 170th
relT.CA/60 - 162nd
rel.xGA/60 - 172nd
relT.xGA/60 - 170th

So yeah, we've been bleeding shot attempts and great chances with Rielly on the ice. But, he's also so good offensively it doesn't really matter. Yes, he could probably become more average at defense (like last season) if he wasn't strapped to a guy that can't skate anymore but he's really always not been one to be good at supressing shots/chances against.

Gardiner is, and always has been much better defensively even during the time he's carried these guys around:

Rielly has more blocked shots, a better giveaway/takeaway ratio, and a better +/-. plus watch the games. He's better defensively AINEC!

 

[Morgs]

Rielly has more blocked shots, a better giveaway/takeaway ratio, and a better +/-. plus watch the games. He's better defensively AINEC!

Preeeeeeach. So much this!

I change my answer lmao.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I would like Zaitsev to play with someone other than Gardiner, I think it will help him, I think Jakes erratic style hurts him, he has no idea what Jakke is going to do out there.

 

[mitchthemitch]

Focus should be on moving Dermott up the lineup.

If anything I would try Jake and Morgan together. Not sure who plays the right side though.

Let Hainsey work with Dermott to make him more responsible.

Drop Z down to third pair.

You really think Babcock will ice a top 4 with all left handed shooters? But Jake and Morgan would be a dominant top pair for sure. Unless we can get a second pairing RHD in a trade to play with Dermott, it won't be happening.

 

[mitchthemitch]

Why the f*ck would you ever even think of putting your worst defense man with your best defense man and f*ck up your best guy. And he would have to play more so the team will be worse off. Zaitsev has to go. Gards has to go. Bottom line both suck. We need to rebuild our defense. It really really sucks that our defense is so so bad in a year where our forwards are ready for the Cup run. I do not have the fix it answers but I know those 2 guys are terrible defenders.

Gardiner does not suck. He is putting up a lot of points on the second pairing with a guy who cannot handle the puck. His advanced stats are very good. He excels at the transition game, something that the Leafs are not very good at. A d core with 6 copies of Jake Gardiner on it would be near the top of the league. The truth is that he is by far the Leafs second best defenseman and he will not be traded unless the Leafs really fall off and are out of the playoffs.

 

[mitchthemitch]

Zaitsev will have to get buried in the minors next year. I would try to trade him but no one is stupid enough to take him. We are stuck with him and his useless defensive play.

He isn't useless defensively...he's useless with the puck. Without the puck he is pretty solid but unfortunately he is being paid to be good at both ends of the ice which he has not been. I agree that we should try to trade him though...couple him with a first and send him to a team in desperate need of a defensive RHD

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Gardiner does not suck. He is putting up a lot of points on the second pairing with a guy who cannot handle the puck. His advanced stats are very good. He excels at the transition game, something that the Leafs are not very good at. A d core with 6 copies of Jake Gardiner on it would be near the top of the league. The truth is that he is by far the Leafs second best defenseman and he will not be traded unless the Leafs really fall off and are out of the playoffs.

He should play centre then. I am talking about defensive DEFENDERS. I know he is great offensively.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He isn't useless defensively...he's useless with the puck. Without the puck he is pretty solid but unfortunately he is being paid to be good at both ends of the ice which he has not been. I agree that we should try to trade him though...couple him with a first and send him to a team in desperate need of a defensive RHD

I don't agree. I often see him on the ice where the attackers have gotten between him and his goalie. In fact i see it virtually every shift. He is a big ice wide ice defense. His skating is ok i give you that. His puck skills are very weak. His decision making with puck is slow. I don't see him as an NHL level defense.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I would like Zaitsev to play with someone other than Gardiner, I think it will help him, I think Jakes erratic style hurts him, he has no idea what Jakke is going to do out there.

Does Jake even know what he is going to do?