Zadina vs Veleno

[jaster]

Zadina doesn't think the game fast enough to incorporate deception into his shot, or overall game, at the NHL level. That's unlikely to change.

Zadina's best hope lies in putting himself into more positions to score. Finding more soft spots on the ice. Going to the net more. This can be practiced and game-planned. Since he doesn't think the game fast enough to take it over, he has to put in the work to prepare for games instead.

 

[Peter Tosh]

I suspect that both Rasmussen, Zadina and Veleno will follow Sheahan’s path. They are all still young, though. I like Veleno’s commitment to training and hope that his work ethics can translate inte him being useful in some way. Wouldn’t be surprised to se both Raz and Zadina traded before season starts

 

[HisNoodliness]

You know what, I'd like to put in a bet for future crow-eating that Zadina takes a big step this year. He's shown enough progress on effort and defensive responsibility to think that Lalonde will give him a consistent spot in the lineup. If he can bury a few shots and get his confidence back, with a new coach, it could break well for him. We'll use more than 20 goals as the benchmark.

 

[Frk It]

That’s probably the case, and it’s a good case study for scouting staffs. Because it’s not just the Wings that liked him. If we pass on him at 6, he’s probably still a top 10 pick.

What I will say is this, I don’t think the Zadina we have in Detroit is the same Zadina that played in Halifax. The swagger is missing. The confidence is missing.

You see it when he shoots the puck, when he looks for a pass. It’s why I think that Lalonde is really the last chance we have with Zadina. If he can’t recapture that confidence, he’s going to struggle to accomplish much. And in the meantime, if he can add a layer to his game, it would go a long way. And for his build and athletic profile, I would suggest it be creating deception. Something that can create space and create difficult opportunities for opponents.

He’s not going to play strong enough, nor is he going to become fast enough to rely on those traits. Deception is the only thing that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, the people that aren't more surprised he hasn't worked out, I don't think they watched him much in his draft year play in the Q or at the WJC.

He wasn't just a guy who waited for someone to get him the puck and shot it. He was a really good puckhandler, and a good passer as well.

His overall offensive game looked high end in his draft year. I know @The Zetterberg Era brought up questions on his athleticism at the time and his ability to improve it, which now look like they were pretty valid concerns.

But I at the least thought he would be a great power play player with what I saw in his draft season. It was always the question for me how effective was he going to be 5 on 5, when he had less time and space.

He really is one of the more confusing cases for me. I am starting to just get bad juju from these QMJHL wingers that are great junior players. (Drouin, Zadina, Laf). Maybe that's unfair, but each of those 3 guys has disappointed me relative to what I expected.

 

[jaster]

Yeah, the people that aren't more surprised he hasn't worked out, I don't think they watched him much in his draft year play in the Q or at the WJC.

He wasn't just a guy who waited for someone to get him the puck and shot it. He was a really good puckhandler, and a good passer as well.

His overall offensive game looked high end in his draft year. I know @The Zetterberg Era brought up questions on his athleticism at the time and his ability to improve it, which now look like they were pretty valid concerns.

But I at the least thought he would be a great power play player with what I saw in his draft season. It was always the question for me how effective was he going to be 5 on 5, when he had less time and space.

He really is one of the more confusing cases for me. I am starting to just get bad juju from these QMJHL wingers that are great junior players. (Drouin, Zadina, Laf). Maybe that's unfair, but each of those 3 guys has disappointed me relative to what I expected.

I don't want to sound like a broken record since I've mentioned this a couple times, but I really do believe Zadina is a great example of a guy who, in terms of processing the game quickly, was significantly ahead of his peers in junior, and so there were no red flags there in terms of scouting.... but that processing speed was just never fast enough to accomplish the same kind of offense at the NHL level. And that is really difficult to scout. When you watch a kid demolish his peers and score a bunch of goals in junior, it has to be difficult to identify whether or not he'll be able to adapt to NHL game speed once he fully develops. Size and speed and hands and compete.... easy to scout. The brain? Hell, neurologists still don't understand most of the brain.

Confidence may very well be part of it for Zadina, and he can improve that, that will hopefully make up for part of what he's lacking.

 

[jfrank21]

I feel like it's pretty easy to see, he was rushed. Instead of doing things the normal red wings way and letting him learn and dominate in the AHL, they decided that he was good enough to "stick" on the roster but he hasnt flourished because his confidence is shot. And since he has no confidence, he's panicky out there and rushes things.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Yeah, the people that aren't more surprised he hasn't worked out, I don't think they watched him much in his draft year play in the Q or at the WJC.

He wasn't just a guy who waited for someone to get him the puck and shot it. He was a really good puckhandler, and a good passer as well.

His overall offensive game looked high end in his draft year. I know @The Zetterberg Era brought up questions on his athleticism at the time and his ability to improve it, which now look like they were pretty valid concerns.

But I at the least thought he would be a great power play player with what I saw in his draft season. It was always the question for me how effective was he going to be 5 on 5, when he had less time and space.

He really is one of the more confusing cases for me. I am starting to just get bad juju from these QMJHL wingers that are great junior players. (Drouin, Zadina, Laf). Maybe that's unfair, but each of those 3 guys has disappointed me relative to what I expected.

Guys we have drafted out of the Q:

Zadina
Veleno
McIsaac
Svechnikov
Mantha
Frk
Jurco
Ouellet

These guys were all first or second rounders and only Mantha turned into a quality NHL'er. The jury is still out on Veleno. That's a pretty bad track record with some of your best draft picks.

Yzerman has taken one 5th rounder out of the Q since he's been here. That tells me something about their thoughts on that league.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't want to sound like a broken record since I've mentioned this a couple times, but I really do believe Zadina is a great example of a guy who, in terms of processing the game quickly, was significantly ahead of his peers in junior, and so there were no red flags there in terms of scouting.... but that processing speed was just never fast enough to accomplish the same kind of offense at the NHL level. And that is really difficult to scout. When you watch a kid demolish his peers and score a bunch of goals in junior, it has to be difficult to identify whether or not he'll be able to adapt to NHL game speed once he fully develops. Size and speed and hands and compete.... easy to scout. The brain? Hell, neurologists still don't understand most of the brain.

Confidence may very well be part of it for Zadina, and he can improve that, that will hopefully make up for part of what he's lacking.

I feel like it's pretty easy to see, he was rushed. Instead of doing things the normal red wings way and letting him learn and dominate in the AHL, they decided that he was good enough to "stick" on the roster but he hasnt flourished because his confidence is shot. And since he has no confidence, he's panicky out there and rushes things.

The reason why he doesn't have confidence is that the NHL has figured him out and he's not smart enough to compensate. Plus at this point he knows he thinks too slow, much like ChoLOL, so that'll wreck anyone's "confidence".

The rest of the league appears to be watching scouting videos, they all know he's going to cut inside. Meanwhile Zadina is sleeping through scouting videos because he doesn't even know who Makar is.

The only way you can compensate for slow thinking is to practice repeatedly until things become automatic. He might want to start with an outside move, lol.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't want to sound like a broken record since I've mentioned this a couple times, but I really do believe Zadina is a great example of a guy who, in terms of processing the game quickly, was significantly ahead of his peers in junior, and so there were no red flags there in terms of scouting.... but that processing speed was just never fast enough to accomplish the same kind of offense at the NHL level. And that is really difficult to scout. When you watch a kid demolish his peers and score a bunch of goals in junior, it has to be difficult to identify whether or not he'll be able to adapt to NHL game speed once he fully develops. Size and speed and hands and compete.... easy to scout. The brain? Hell, neurologists still don't understand most of the brain.

Confidence may very well be part of it for Zadina, and he can improve that, that will hopefully make up for part of what he's lacking.

The QMJHL is full of guys that are i3 processors with integrated graphics cards. Zadina had the i5 with 8 gigs of ram. That's a big gap. But NHL players are a bunch of i9s with 32 gigs of ram, and some of these guys have 8gb radeons and nVidea GPUs. By the time he's loaded into his match on BF2042 the other team is spawncamping and has captured all the points in conquest.

Maybe he should stop trying to play BF2042 with a weaker machine and go play minecraft.

Guys we have drafted out of the Q:

Zadina
Veleno
McIsaac
Svechnikov
Mantha
Frk
Jurco
Ouellet

These guys were all first or second rounders and only Mantha turned into a quality NHL'er. The jury is still out on Veleno. That's a pretty bad track record with some of your best draft picks.

Yzerman has taken one 5th rounder out of the Q since he's been here. That tells me something about their thoughts on that league.

Who is our QMJHL scout? Maybe we can add him to the list of names to be launched into the sun from our team trebuchet.

 

[Frk It]

Who is our QMJHL scout? Maybe we can add him to the list of names to be launched into the sun from our team trebuchet.

There just haven't been that many players from the QMJHL I have been interested in the last few years.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

There just haven't been that many players from the QMJHL I have been interested in the last few years.

2020 and 2021 had some guys in the mid to late 1st round and 2nd round that all look to be solid prospects. Dawson Mercer, Zach L'Heureaux, Zach Bolduc, Xavier Bourgault...but yeah. The Q has been kind of a flat league lately.

 

[Frk It]

2020 and 2021 had some guys in the mid to late 1st round and 2nd round that all look to be solid prospects. Dawson Mercer, Zach L'Heureaux, Zach Bolduc, Xavier Bourgault...but yeah. The Q has been kind of a flat league lately.

Bourque and Bourgault were the only guys I remember being really interested in. A lot of these guys went inbetween our picks. Kinda been slim pickings outta the Q recently.

 

[jaster]

The QMJHL is full of guys that are i3 processors with integrated graphics cards. Zadina had the i5 with 8 gigs of ram. That's a big gap. But NHL players are a bunch of i9s with 32 gigs of ram, and some of these guys have 8gb radeons and nVidea GPUs. By the time he's loaded into his match on BF2042 the other team is spawncamping and has captured all the points in conquest.

Maybe he should stop trying to play BF2042 with a weaker machine and go play minecraft.

As accurate as a DXR-1, Ogee.

 

[SantosHalper]

Yzerman has taken one 5th rounder out of the Q since he's been here. That tells me something about their thoughts on that league

Well that is interesting. So far Yzerman has selected 8 players from CHL, 4 from OHL, 3 from WHL and 1 from QMJHL. 19 players from Europe and 14 players who are taking the college route. Developmental side might be the factor here, maybe Yzerman sees the Q as poor developmental ground.

Who is our QMJHL scout

I would guess Ross Yates, born and raised in Montreal. Played junior hockey there and spend 2 years as a head coach and 1 year as assistant coach in Saint John Sea Dogs. Red Wings hired him in 2018, so a Holland-era guy.

Brendan Flemming has some Q background too, was a scout for Cape Breton Screaming Eagles 2009-11. I think it's Yates, Flemming is a american and he has lot of high school and college background.

 

[jaster]

Anyone remember Gleason Fournier?

Yeah, me neither.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Tampa has a few guys from the Q over the years, so I am not sure the not going there often trend will continue. Although I do feel like a couple of those guys were undrafted free agents.

 

[Frk It]

Anyone remember Gleason Fournier?

Yeah, me neither.

I was thinking about making a fallen soldiers thread.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I was thinking about making a fallen soldiers thread.

Do it!

 

[Run the Jewels]

There's a thread on the NHL subreddit about one opinion you held which has proven you wrong, and with over 400 comments Zadina is the most popular answer. A guy in Ottawa admitted he was on team Zadina and was bummed they took Brady Tkachuk instead.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Oh man, what a mess up. Zadina over Hughes... Oofffh! An had he just been picked(Zadina) we'd of likely easily selected Hughes...

I was happy at the time, but Zadina's proved to be nothing special. Veleno will play much longer than him in the NHL.

Veleno always had the gritty-try-hard game that was going to make him effective even if he didn't develop fast offensively. Veleno's best bet to stay in the league now is fore-checking, face-offs, skating. I think him and Rasmussen can form a pesky-pair of bottom line C's/PK'ers.

I'll never forget that draft. Ty Dellandrea was a 1st rdp who I watched regularly in Flint with the firebird.

Epic name/draftee name in Jett Woo(not sure how he's doing?)

I'm certain wings take Bouchard over Hughes

 

[Perfect Human]

I was going to make a Veleno post about improvement but through searching the boards, found this old thread from last summer:
Bump

Joe Veleno
2021-2022: 66 gp, 8g, 7a, 15p, -12, FO% 48 (rounding)
2022-2023: 49 gp, 7g, 8a, 15p, ±0, FO% 40 (rounding)

Filip Zadina
2021-2022: 74 gp, 10g, 14a, 24p, -24, SH% 6.5
2022-2023: 10 gp, 1g, 0a, 1p, -2, SH% 7.7

I voted Veleno but I hope Zadina turns it around and plays well. That being said, after an extremely small sample size it looks like Veleno is improving more than Zadina is. Veleno's strong dip in FO% this year is curious. I wonder if it is because of tougher matchups?

 

[Gniwder]

I was going to make a Veleno post about improvement but through searching the boards, found this old thread from last summer:
Bump

Joe Veleno
2021-2022: 66 gp, 8g, 7a, 15p, -12, FO% 48 (rounding)
2022-2023: 49 gp, 7g, 8a, 15p, ±0, FO% 40 (rounding)

Filip Zadina
2021-2022: 74 gp, 10g, 14a, 24p, -24, SH% 6.5
2022-2023: 10 gp, 1g, 0a, 1p, -2, SH% 7.7

I voted Veleno but I hope Zadina turns it around and plays well. That being said, after an extremely small sample size it looks like Veleno is improving more than Zadina is. Veleno's strong dip in FO% this year is curious. I wonder if it is because of tougher matchups?

That is certainly part of it. Fester doesn't shelter Joey as much as Blash did, he's going against top lines sometimes.

Zadina is 1PPG since getting his bionic legs. He's gonna make me eat crow by scoring 30 goals in the remainder of the season. (All joking aside, that was a pretty play, even if the defensemen actually deflected the pass a bit)

 

[Reddwit]

I'm certain wings take Bouchard over Hughes

Yup. That was the rumored preference even when it was up in the air how high Hughes would go.

 

[NickH8]

I was going to make a Veleno post about improvement but through searching the boards, found this old thread from last summer:
Bump

Joe Veleno
2021-2022: 66 gp, 8g, 7a, 15p, -12, FO% 48 (rounding)
2022-2023: 49 gp, 7g, 8a, 15p, ±0, FO% 40 (rounding)

Filip Zadina
2021-2022: 74 gp, 10g, 14a, 24p, -24, SH% 6.5
2022-2023: 10 gp, 1g, 0a, 1p, -2, SH% 7.7

I voted Veleno but I hope Zadina turns it around and plays well. That being said, after an extremely small sample size it looks like Veleno is improving more than Zadina is. Veleno's strong dip in FO% this year is curious. I wonder if it is because of tougher matchups?

The real answer to the threads question is Berggren

 

[Perfect Human]

The real answer to the threads question is Berggren

Touché. Berggren is a future top 6 winger!