Zadina vs Veleno

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Dobson @ 12th! is the steal of the draft. He was my pick & I'm not a study the draft for months kinda guy

I think as (Hughes & Dobs) their 2 respective careers are compared, it'll be Dobson who is more valuable.

Betting Hughes & Marner have similar success reg. season vs. playoff disappointment, in at least medium part, if not in large part, due to them.

 

[Run the Jewels]

At the time of this draft I asked whether Holland and Tyler Wright new something the rest of the league didn't when so many teams passed on these guys. Pretty clearly they did not, which is no shock when you look at the bulk of our 1st round draft picks out of North America during Holland's time as General Manager. Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, Cholowski, Svechnikov, Larkin, Mantha, Sheahan, McCollum, Smith, Kindl. One A+ draft pick in Larkin and one B draft pick in Mantha.

I think Veleno has better overall utility so I would go with him. He can be a quality bottom 6 forward on a competitive team.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Zadina won't have more career points, he's more likely to wash out of the league. Nobody needs a scoring line winger that can't score.

Damn that's so depressingly true.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

At the time of this draft I asked whether Holland and Tyler Wright new something the rest of the league didn't when so many teams passed on these guys. Pretty clearly they did not, which is no shock when you look at the bulk of our 1st round draft picks out of North America during Holland's time as General Manager. Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, Cholowski, Svechnikov, Larkin, Mantha, Sheahan, McCollum, Smith, Kindl. One A+ draft pick in Larkin and one B draft pick in Mantha.

I think Veleno has better overall utility so I would go with him. He can be a quality bottom 6 forward on a competitive team.

That is one depressing list of 1st rounders…

 

[RedWingzz]

Joey will have the better career.

In 5 years time I see Veleno being a contributing 3C, maybe on the Wings, maybe on another team, but he will be a good NHL player. Probably won't hit the ceiling that many people thought/wanted, but he will be a good NHL player nonetheless, and should have a couple seasons where he flirts at or near 0.5 pts/per game.

In 5 years time (probably more like 2 years time) Zadina will be playing in the KHL or the Czech Extraliga.

 

[GMR]

Good luck to the Oilers with Ken Holland making their picks.

That is one depressing list of 1st rounders…

You'd never believe a Hall of Fame GM made those picks.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Joey will have the better career.

In 5 years time I see Veleno being a contributing 3C, maybe on the Wings, maybe on another team, but he will be a good NHL player. Probably won't hit the ceiling that many people thought/wanted, but he will be a good NHL player nonetheless, and should have a couple seasons where he flirts at or near 0.5 pts/per game.

In 5 years time (probably more like 2 years time) Zadina will be playing in the KHL or the Czech Extraliga.

There really wasn’t any critical thought that went into this post, was there? Just speaking from the heart and letting all of your frustrations out on one player.

What has Veleno done that makes you confident in him have a better chance of becoming a 40 point 3C than Zadina has of playing in the NHL in 2 years time?

Their essentially the same age. Zadina has more games under his belt, but it’s really stupid to think that one is going to become more than double the player he is today and the other will fail out of the league overnight.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I believe Veleno could become a Matthew Lombardi type player, good middle 6er with speed who can Pk and show off some skill on occasion. There is no question he is an NHLer, the question just remains if he becomes a good one. Still, like Rasmussen, I think they’re both good bets for 300-400 game careers. Possibly much more.

Zadina is hard as he does a ton of little things that you can tell takes skill but his execution is wonky, especially his passing and shot. He also just seems to lack the extra gear of natural athleticism, which is a shame because based off his IG he seems to take training seriously (but also makes it more concerning). He’s not slow by any means, but he rarely is able to put the burners on, more just a bit of a quick skater better at lateral movement opposed to straight acceleration.

Still, I think a lot of us forget that he’s only a draft year earlier than guys such as Turcotte. I would not be surprised to see him wash out, nor would I be opposed to trading him for a package should we be able to get around a 2nd round dp valuation, but I do think people are cutting him a bit early. I get it’s the fact he’s regressed but many productive players hadn’t even made the nhl yet at his age. If we can’t get at least decent value I’d like to see what he can do with a new coach and hopefully clean mental state.

Rn I’m leaning towards bust, but I can see him developing into a Nyquist like career. That said, those typically aren’t the guys who win you games in the playoffs.

Oh man, what a mess up. Zadina over Hughes... Oofffh! An had he just been picked(Zadina) we'd of likely easily selected Hughes...

I was happy at the time, but Zadina's proved to be nothing special. Veleno will play much longer than him in the NHL.

Veleno always had the gritty-try-hard game that was going to make him effective even if he didn't develop fast offensively. Veleno's best bet to stay in the league now is fore-checking, face-offs, skating. I think him and Rasmussen can form a pesky-pair of bottom line C's/PK'ers.

I'll never forget that draft. Ty Dellandrea was a 1st rdp who I watched regularly in Flint with the firebird.

Epic name/draftee name in Jett Woo(not sure how he's doing?)

In regards to your first mini paragraph, I am fairly certain it was reported we were eying Bouchard instead of Hughes.

Honestly, for all the hate I’ve given our drafting, I can’t blame them on the Zadina pick as many people here and in the media thought it was a steal.

 

[steafo]

I'm still holding out optimism for both of them. I think Zadina is salvageable and I don't think Veleno has been given enough rope to see what he really is. He's also been a typical slow developer or someone who takes longer to figure out the league he's in.

Putting them against eachother, I think worst case Veleno is still a very good 3C after he develops and I'd much rather have that over a 3rd line winger that can't crack the 20 goal range. I also think Veleno is more diverse in that he can and will play the hard game later in his career. I don't get that vibe from Zadina, and it's a hunch, and probably totally unwarranted.

 

[lilidk]

Zadina gone and Veleno stay, middle six role

 

[Filppula]

Veleno for sure. Much more confidence in him long term. JV flashes some real skill, and although he’ll never be a big point producer, he’s solid all-round.

 

[TheMule93]

I expect nothing from either of them.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I expect nothing from either of them.

setting yourself up to be mildly, but pleasantly surprised should one/they develop (JV is my guess).

I'd like to see video examples of the Vrana-Zadina chemistry, how many goals did they connect for 2-3? how many gp? As I stated earlier, I believe Zadina was cashing in on several solo efforts by a refreshed & fresh off rehab Vrana doing his best Mick Jagger moves in the Ozone. The rest of the fluff is Ken & Mick selling it.

 

[RedWingzz]

There really wasn’t any critical thought that went into this post, was there? Just speaking from the heart and letting all of your frustrations out on one player.

What has Veleno done that makes you confident in him have a better chance of becoming a 40 point 3C than Zadina has of playing in the NHL in 2 years time?

Their essentially the same age. Zadina has more games under his belt, but it’s really stupid to think that one is going to become more than double the player he is today and the other will fail out of the league overnight.

Speaking from the heart...? I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has watched every single game of both of their careers.

Letting out frustrations...? Huh? Have you watched Zadina play hockey over the last couple seasons? How could you not be frustrated with the 6th overall self proclaimed goal scoring machine? He has been given chance to play on the top line, and has been given tons of PP opportunities, yet he has nothing to show for it.

40 point 3c???? Did I say that's what he will be every year, or did my post mention that I could see him having a couple seasons where he comes close to this? Reading the entirety of a post is very important!

More games under his belt? So ******* what...that means nothing.

Look at the poll results buddy. You have far too much time on your hands if you get this heated by a post on a Wings forum in the middle of the summer lol

 

[Hen Kolland]

Speaking from the heart...? I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has watched every single game of both of their careers.

Letting out frustrations...? Huh? Have you watched Zadina play hockey over the last couple seasons? How could you not be frustrated with the 6th overall self proclaimed goal scoring machine? He has been given chance to play on the top line, and has been given tons of PP opportunities, yet he has nothing to show for it.

40 point 3c???? Did I say that's what he will be every year, or did my post mention that I could see him having a couple seasons where he comes close to this? Reading the entirety of a post is very important!

More games under his belt? So ******* what...that means nothing.

It's stupid to think that Veleno will be better? Lol..look at the poll results buddy...

You have far too much time on your hands if you get this heated by a post on a Wings forum in the middle of the summer lol

Oh yeah, this batch of posters is the brain trust I really need to buy stock in. You all really know all the answers................

You said that he would have a couple of years flirting with being a 0.5 point per game center. I'm taking your words as literally as someone possibly could: You think he can become a 40 point center at some point.

At no point did I say that I think it's stupid to believe that Veleno will end up the better player. I said the belief that Veleno becoming more than twice the player he is today, while also thinking that Zadina will somehow be so bad that he ends up out of the league in 2 years is a stupid conclusion to make.

These guys are the same age, taken in the same draft, and play for the same team. It's really a non-arguable point that Zadina has accomplished more in the NHL than Veleno has. So to say that he will be out of the league in 2 years because he's just so bad, but the other one will have an extremely long leash to figure out how to be more than a 4th line player...yeah, I stand by my comment. It's stupid. It reads like there's a bias against one player for no other reason than you are upset with one's development, even though he's actually been the better player. That one will have a lot go right for him, and the other one just gets worse and worse and worse. It's not a impossible reality, but it's certainly biased.

My position is that Veleno has the better chance to be a serviceable bottom of the lineup player for a long time, but Zadina still has the better chance to be a contributing top 9 forward. Digest that to mean whatever you want it to. God knows you'll jump to a bunch of conclusions, act pissy, and then tell me that I'm the one who's heated.

 

[jaster]

Guys, guys. Relax. Go to the thread about frozen wieners, there's no mention of Zadina or Veleno there. Just wieners. You'll love it.

 

[RedWingzz]

Oh yeah, this batch of posters is the brain trust I really need to buy stock in. You all really know all the answers................

You said that he would have a couple of years flirting with being a 0.5 point per game center. I'm taking your words as literally as someone possibly could: You think he can become a 40 point center at some point.

At no point did I say that I think it's stupid to believe that Veleno will end up the better player. I said the belief that Veleno becoming more than twice the player he is today, while also thinking that Zadina will somehow be so bad that he ends up out of the league in 2 years is a stupid conclusion to make.

These guys are the same age, taken in the same draft, and play for the same team. It's really a non-arguable point that Zadina has accomplished more in the NHL than Veleno has. So to say that he will be out of the league in 2 years because he's just so bad, but the other one will have an extremely long leash to figure out how to be more than a 4th line player...yeah, I stand by my comment. It's stupid. It reads like there's a bias against one player for no other reason than you are upset with one's development, even though he's actually been the better player. That one will have a lot go right for him, and the other one just gets worse and worse and worse. It's not a impossible reality, but it's certainly biased.

My position is that Veleno has the better chance to be a serviceable bottom of the lineup player for a long time, but Zadina still has the better chance to be a contributing top 9 forward. Digest that to mean whatever you want it to. God knows you'll jump to a bunch of conclusions, act pissy, and then tell me that I'm the one who's heated.

If "this batch of posters" doesn't do it for you, then why are you even on the site?

I'm really not sure what got you triggered and why you are so upset. In a thread about Zadina vs Veleno, I simply stated my opinion (which is shared by the majority), and you come out and call me stupid, and act like I have a personal vendetta against your apparent wonderboy Zadina. I have nothing against Zadina, he's just been underwhelming and is barely an NHL player at this point. In my opinion, Veleno has more to offer in terms of being an NHL regular. I think Veleno will stick in this league as a 3rd liner, whereas Zadina needs to be a scorer, or else his time in this league will not last long.

I don't feel the need to have an internet tough guy argument with you, so if that's what you are looking for, I'm going to steer clear. I find internet tough guys hilarious.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Guys, guys. Relax. Go to the thread about frozen wieners, there's no mention of Zadina or Veleno there. Just wieners. You'll love it.

Hahaha! (but as Homer Simpson)

 

[Frk It]

Damn and to think in 2018 Zadina was compared to Laine and Veleno's floor was #2C. Prospects are just prospects....

Literally never saw 1 person compare him to Laine. Laine’s draft season was way more impressive.

 

[Hen Kolland]

If "this batch of posters" doesn't do it for you, then why are you even on the site?

I'm really not sure what got you triggered and why you are so upset. In a thread about Zadina vs Veleno, I simply stated my opinion (which is shared by the majority), and you come out and call me stupid, and act like I have a personal vendetta against your apparent wonderboy Zadina. I have nothing against Zadina, he's just been underwhelming and is barely an NHL player at this point. In my opinion, Veleno has more to offer in terms of being an NHL regular. I think Veleno will stick in this league as a 3rd liner, whereas Zadina needs to be a scorer, or else his time in this league will not last long.

I don't feel the need to have an internet tough guy argument with you, so if that's what you are looking for, I'm going to steer clear. I find internet tough guys hilarious.

I'm not here to play tough guy; I'm trying to figure out why the hell you feel the way you do.

If Zadina is barely an NHL player at this point, what is Veleno? Because Zadina has been a better player than Veleno to this point. And if Veleno is capable of improving to be a 3C, why is Zadina not capable of getting better? That's why I keep bringing up their age. They are literally at the exact same point of their careers, and Zadina has factually been a better NHL player.

It's your opinion, as you said, so tell me why you think Veleno can be a 3rd liner and why Zadina will be in Europe in the next handful of years. Because the thought process really doesn't make sense at face value. And it goes beyond simply saying Zadina needs to be a scorer. There has to be a reason why one is capable of getting better and one isn't, in your opinion.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'm not here to play tough guy; I'm trying to figure out why the hell you feel the way you do.

If Zadina is barely an NHL player at this point, what is Veleno? Because Zadina has been a better player than Veleno to this point. And if Veleno is capable of improving to be a 3C, why is Zadina not capable of getting better? That's why I keep bringing up their age. They are literally at the exact same point of their careers, and Zadina has factually been a better NHL player.

It's your opinion, as you said, so tell me why you think Veleno can be a 3rd liner and why Zadina will be in Europe in the next handful of years. Because the thought process really doesn't make sense at face value. And it goes beyond simply saying Zadina needs to be a scorer. There has to be a reason why one is capable of getting better and one isn't, in your opinion.

I think it's fair to say this:

Veleno has layers to his game. The tools are all there to have a pretty decent 2nd/3rd line center with good wheels if Veleno finds consistency. If he's not scoring as a 2C/3C then he can play down the lineup and utilize his speed in a checking role. He's willing to play physical. He's willing to battle the other team in the corners and has positional versatility.

Zadina plays a game that is predicated on offense as a sniper, not a playmaker. The rub is his shot isn't anywhere near as elite as advertised. Zadina lacks a separation gear to get away from defenders, and he has proven time and again how unwilling he is to play in the hard areas of the ice. If Zadina isn't scoring he's not useful.

Both have not had great NHL careers to date. However I also think it's fair to say with the current roster Veleno is less in danger of losing his spot than Zadina is. Detroit has Berggren in Grand Rapids that can both be a playmaker AND shooter. And he's a better skater by far. And if neither player proves they can stick then Fabbri is back in a few months and can replace both.

Veleno can outhustle Erne and keep a spot on the 4th line and learn to be a PKer before working his way up the lineup. I half jokingly said that we hope Veleno becomes like Andrew Copp but that might be the development path he is on. With the logjam at forward Veleno will probably work his way up from the 4th to the 3rd and so on.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I think it's fair to say this:

Veleno has layers to his game. The tools are all there to have a pretty decent 2nd/3rd line center with good wheels if Veleno finds consistency. If he's not scoring as a 2C/3C then he can play down the lineup and utilize his speed in a checking role. He's willing to play physical. He's willing to battle the other team in the corners and has positional versatility.

Zadina plays a game that is predicated on offense as a sniper, not a playmaker. The rub is his shot isn't anywhere near as elite as advertised. Zadina lacks a separation gear to get away from defenders, and he has proven time and again how unwilling he is to play in the hard areas of the ice. If Zadina isn't scoring he's not useful.

Both have not had great NHL careers to date. However I also think it's fair to say with the current roster Veleno is less in danger of losing his spot than Zadina is. Detroit has Berggren in Grand Rapids that can both be a playmaker AND shooter. And he's a better skater by far. And if neither player proves they can stick then Fabbri is back in a few months and can replace both.

Veleno can outhustle Erne and keep a spot on the 4th line and learn to be a PKer before working his way up the lineup. I half jokingly said that we hope Veleno becomes like Andrew Copp but that might be the development path he is on. With the logjam at forward Veleno will probably work his way up from the 4th to the 3rd and so on.

That could be, but I honestly think Veleno only had a job in Detroit last year out of necessity. I say this as a guy who went out of his way to buy a Veleno jersey because I’ve always been a fan of the kid. He was kind of just hanging in purgatory.

Zadina was thought to be a solution for the second line. The gap between the two was substantial, and that was reflective of where each stood at the time. I’ve said this before, I don’t think Zadina has much leash left. I think he gets this year with a new coach to see if he can figure some stuff out. If not, he’s probably on his way out.

That doesn’t mean he will completely fizzle out and leave the country, just that the Wings will not have the runway for him to take off. That is independent of Veleno’s situation. I think he’s got more time with the Wings, but the expectations are much lower than they are for Zadina

 

[Retire91]

I have relatively no hope in either but to answer the question Veleno has the tools to put together a bottom line career. Zadina doesn't. Zadina is a top 6 or bust kind of player. Like someone put it before "no one has room on their team for a scoring winger that can't score". He is kind of a poor man's Yakupov.

I have no ill will against him personally and wish him well. As for the business side he was a piece of the set the franchise back pie. Is this the final batch of Holland picks that we can finally write off and move on from?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That could be, but I honestly think Veleno only had a job in Detroit last year out of necessity. I say this as a guy who went out of his way to buy a Veleno jersey because I’ve always been a fan of the kid. He was kind of just hanging in purgatory.

Zadina was thought to be a solution for the second line. The gap between the two was substantial, and that was reflective of where each stood at the time. I’ve said this before, I don’t think Zadina has much leash left. I think he gets this year with a new coach to see if he can figure some stuff out. If not, he’s probably on his way out.

That doesn’t mean he will completely fizzle out and leave the country, just that the Wings will not have the runway for him to take off. That is independent of Veleno’s situation. I think he’s got more time with the Wings, but the expectations are much lower than they are for Zadina

Expectations are for sure different, as are roles, but Zadina looks like he's a potential Lias Anderson/Nail Yakupov/Mikhail Grigorenko/Nikita Filatov (who was also 6th overall...) level of bust. High expectations to be a contributor but just could never put it together.

If Zadina doesn't make it with Detroit this year then I'm expecting someone to take a flyer on him as a reclamation project but all signs will point to him busting and going back to the Extraliiga.

 

[Frk It]

all signs will point to him busting and going back to the Extraliiga.

When? Like within a year or two? I think that's pretty extreme.