News Article: Zack Kassian placed in stage 2 of NHL's Substance Abuse & Behavioral Wellness Program

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bobbyb2009

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
1,902
956
Totally agree! Such hypocrisy in throwing Kassian under the bus. Nothing wrong with partying late. Next Habs game wasnt for like 4 days. Last hoorah before the season starts.

I suspect he is being treated harshly due to the mike richards and kane scandals. NHL is in damage control mode.

If it is true that he legitimately has substance abuse problems, then his suspension makes sense. But so far it seems like many people jumping to conclusions without any proof.

I am so confused about this perspective that seems to be shared by so many that I must assume are young men.

As a disclosure, I have had my own challenges with addiction in my life time, and my profession for the most part of my adult life was related to professional sport.

In what world is it normal to be out partying until 6:30 am? So many people here suggesting it is a normal behaviour for the average young male. It just isn't. OK, out partying to 2 or 3- happens to almost all of us. 630 and sloshed while smashing your car into a tree (whether driving or a passenger) is simply not normal behaviour.

Now, add to that, all Zack's history, and now it is confirmed, stage 1 of substance abuse program, can we please stop making apologies for his behaviour here or in each of his playing environments to date.

I have loads of empathy for him and I truly wish him recovery for the long term. If this comes with a healthy hockey career, I will be a huge fan.

But please, can we all stop suggesting it ok for anyone to be out effecting his own health or the performance of his job or the safety of himself or others at 630 in the am completely intoxicated- least of all someone in Kassian's position
 

Nynja*

Guest
This is my issue with court ordered, or in this case, team ordered substance abuse programs. You cannot make someone change. These program will inherently fail. And putting those who do not have an issue into the program, but as a way to save face with the public, doesn't do anything.

Except right now Kass isnt getting paid.
 

JA

Guest
It's pretty disgusting, actually. People are ready to declare Patrick Kane the worst person ever for a false accusation and yet this idiot actually puts people's lives in danger due to his selfishness and it's "WELL BOYS WILL BE BOYS"
People have been very defensive about Kassian since the 2011-12 season. I feel that the appreciation for him as a player has been completely irrational, but the predominant narrative is that he has always been a victim. The Hodgson-Kassian trade was initially questioned, but the assumption was that Kassian brought grit and size that the 2011-12 Canucks required in the aftermath of the 2011 Stanley Cup Finals. He debuted in a Canucks uniform with a goal, three shots, and seven hits in 10:40 of ice time at home against the Sabres. Canucks fans immediately crowned him as "the next Bertuzzi." He fought, hit, and looked like a grizzled, fearsome player. He faded, but then came back strong at the start of the 2012-13 season and was labeled a "crowd favorite." The desire for fans to see him as a player similar to Todd Bertuzzi blinded many to the reality. I personally have never understood the comparison with Bertuzzi.

Since then, what I have seen is a player who has been extremely inconsistent in his play; instead of being a physical presence as he was expected to be, he decided that he would like to be a large finesse player. Last season he had 82 hits in 42 games, and the season before that he had 91 hits in 73 games. Meanwhile, there have been occasional flashes of offense, but not to a sufficient degree. Fans have blamed coaches for not putting him in the right position to succeed, but he has not done enough nor improved much since joining the Canucks to warrant playing ahead of some of the team's other offensive players; he has been given chances in the top six, and has contributed adequately in that role at times, but not well enough at other times.

When he was traded to Montreal, I did not see it as a huge mistake as others did. He will be 25 years old in January, and his development appears to have stagnated since his early days in the NHL. Fans have become defensive about his play and his development, stating that he is still young. I have seen very little improvement in his game, and he remains a one-way finesse player who under-utilizes his physical traits.

An unwarranted "Cult of Kassian" has developed, and those who have become emotionally attached to this player have time and time again come to his defense. When there were allegations about his off-ice behavior in the past, many defended him. Some stated their opinion that this was normal behavior for people his age. I think Kassian needs help to conquer whatever demons he has. His on-ice performance does not deserve the love it has received, and I don't think he will ever elevate his game to the standard that some believe he has already reached. He needs love and support in his time of difficulty, though; I do not know if this is an uncontrollable issue or simply the result of being irresponsible, but either way he needs to come out of this in greater control of his life and as a mature individual.

Whether or not his troubles have affected his on-ice performance and development in the past, it is important that fans realize that he needs help to steer his life in the right direction.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
I am so confused about this perspective that seems to be shared by so many that I must assume are young men.

As a disclosure, I have had my own challenges with addiction in my life time, and my profession for the most part of my adult life was related to professional sport.

In what world is it normal to be out partying until 6:30 am? So many people here suggesting it is a normal behaviour for the average young male. It just isn't. OK, out partying to 2 or 3- happens to almost all of us. 630 and sloshed while smashing your car into a tree (whether driving or a passenger) is simply not normal behaviour.

Now, add to that, all Zack's history, and now it is confirmed, stage 1 of substance abuse program, can we please stop making apologies for his behaviour here or in each of his playing environments to date.

I have loads of empathy for him and I truly wish him recovery for the long term. If this comes with a healthy hockey career, I will be a huge fan.

But please, can we all stop suggesting it ok for anyone to be out effecting his own health or the performance of his job or the safety of himself or others at 630 in the am completely intoxicated- least of all someone in Kassian's position

First of all, he wasn't partying until 6ish. That's what's being spewed out here but all we know is he wasn't in a state to drive and was in his truck. Maybe he was passed out in his truck, on his way home. Maybe he was out till 3am, went back to someone's place for an after party..had some fun with the ladies around 4h..passed out around 5...woke up dazed out and decided to bounce back home with the ladies.
Would that be an impossible scenario?

Of course, another scenario is he's out till 3am..goes to after party..snorts coke till 6am and decides to go back home with two chicks.

In many places around the world clubs don't even close at 3am and it's quite common to party until the sun comes out. It doesn't mean they have some type of issue.

So no need to assume anything about what is ''normal'' and what isn't.
 

SquiddFX

#Seanski
Dec 16, 2013
7,874
3,041
Montreal
Hopefully he gets the help he needs. I was excited when I heard the Habs acquired him. Now, all we can do is watch the Habs and wait to see if he ever returns.
 

Bacchus1

Fill the net!
Sep 10, 2007
3,139
1,162
Montreal
I don't know why people here feel the need to defend or detract from him. We don't know enough about the situation, and it is conjecture. It is good that he is getting help if he needs it and takes it seriously.

I do think that partying until 6 am is not unusual, but it is also not healthy to be doing regularly, especially for an athlete. You might be able to play, but your performance will be off.

I hope he recovers well both physically and emotionally, and has a good season with us, that is, if he isn't traded.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
30,037
25,454
He can definitely be a good 3rd liner.

Kassian can be more than that. You guys see him play 5 or 10 games and you'll salivate. He won't get there because of his own doing. I kind of agree with what bergevin said - only a certain amount of chances. Kassian is living in the 70's.
 

Doc McKenna

A new era 2021
Jan 5, 2009
11,839
11,797
First of all, he wasn't partying until 6ish. That's what's being spewed out here but all we know is he wasn't in a state to drive and was in his truck. Maybe he was passed out in his truck, on his way home. Maybe he was out till 3am, went back to someone's place for an after party..had some fun with the ladies around 4h..passed out around 5...woke up dazed out and decided to bounce back home with the ladies.
Would that be an impossible scenario?

Of course, another scenario is he's out till 3am..goes to after party..snorts coke till 6am and decides to go back home with two chicks.

In many places around the world clubs don't even close at 3am and it's quite common to party until the sun comes out. It doesn't mean they have some type of issue.

So no need to assume anything about what is ''normal'' and what isn't.

Seriously you are still trying to defend this. Just quit while you are behind already. He WAS TOLD BY MANAGEMENT to clean up, I don't care who you are, if your company says you need to perform x y or z to keep your job, you have one fo two choices, do it or quit.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
The nhl ordered him to go. Does not mean he is addicted or has a problem.

It's quire possible that it's just a way for the nhl to save face because there was an accident.

Since Pelly Lindbergs death in the 80s the Nhl takes car accidents seriously. Rightly so.

They are starting to take concussions seriously.

With so many enforcers admitting to substance abuse problems, the league is starting to take addiction and behavioral problems seriously also.

But I strongly think that what is going on with Kassian has more to do with the Richards and Kane scandals than its own merits.

Kassian is not a superstar so its easy to send him to rehab so everyone just moves on and it becomes a non-story.

I hope i'm wrong and the nhl is generally trying to help him. But this whole strory smells fishy to me

come on man...
 

crystal ball

Registered User
Mar 30, 2007
595
11
The one thing I wonder about is why Bergevin traded for a guy already in stage 1 of the league substance abuse program. You only end up in stage 2 (which Kassian is now in) if you can't follow the rules and self-regulate in stage 1. So, either there was no disclosure about any program Kassian might be in while the trade was in progress, or Bergevin dumped Prust's contract and took a huge risk on a guy with some kind of issues. I don't get that.
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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There is no obligation to be in Stage 1 in order to be admitted to Stage 2, as I understand it, since Stage 1 is voluntary.

Some players already in Stage 1 may end up mandated to enter Stage 2, however, if a player is not in treatment and his state justifies it, he can simply be mandated to enter Stage 2 directly.
 

Nynja*

Guest
The one thing I wonder about is why Bergevin traded for a guy already in stage 1 of the league substance abuse program. You only end up in stage 2 (which Kassian is now in) if you can't follow the rules and self-regulate in stage 1. So, either there was no disclosure about any program Kassian might be in while the trade was in progress, or Bergevin dumped Prust's contract and took a huge risk on a guy with some kind of issues. I don't get that.

You dont get that Bergevin dumped an 18 points in 82 games, 2.5m Brandon Prust for 16 points in 42 games 1.75m Zack Kassian AND a fifth rounder, and turned that remaining 750k savings from Prust into 27 points over 66 games Tomas Fleischmann.

How do you not get that? Even if Kassian never plays, Fleischmann is still better than Prust.
 

crystal ball

Registered User
Mar 30, 2007
595
11
You dont get that Bergevin dumped an 18 points in 82 games, 2.5m Brandon Prust for 16 points in 42 games 1.75m Zack Kassian AND a fifth rounder, and turned that remaining 750k savings from Prust into 27 points over 66 games Tomas Fleischmann.

How do you not get that? Even if Kassian never plays, Fleischmann is still better than Prust.

Obviously in terms of dollars it makes sense. Points aren't an issue at this point, because we don't know what Kassian or Fleischmann will produce. Last year is last year, and we've seen players come to Montreal and immediately decline in production.

I'm just surprised Bergevin would make the trade when he's always on about "character" first. He seemed pretty angry yesterday.
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,389
36,647
You have no arguments. You just have complaints on things you take literally when it's obvious he's hiding something. Bergevin could not reveal all that he knew at the press conference because it's not his place to leak the information. End of story. You want to be ignorant and take his statements literally (Like at the end of season presser), by all means... that's what message boards are for.

I am also allowed to give my opinion on yours. That's the beauty

The beauty of it also is that it's just your opinion on my take on things. It absolutely means nothing as far as if I have arguments or not. It's really just, as you said yourself, your opinion.

As far as "hiding something" great piece of info....yeah...I think I'm pretty aware that Bergevin is not going to tell us everything in a press conference. Strange though....when he says something positive....why do we take it for granted? Are you telling me that for EVERY think he says, your reply is..."Well let's wait and see...."? You've NEVER listen to him and responded that your were either happy or unhappy about something? I'm pretty sure you are not the type that we found around here that doesn't say a thing....bash others who have opinions....and then pretend as if you knew it all along do you? I'm sure your are not. So I have no idea why you take that stance right now.

The guy speaks. I voice my opinion. This is what a minute-by-minute MESSAGE board is for. This is not a thesis. This is not a 1-year program when we take everything that is going and come out with a profound analysis on a guy. When we open a press conference thread, it is NOT to say every 2 seconds..."Well he said that...but let's wait".....200 times by each poster. Bergevin was always seen as a straight shooter. This year, he showed he could be a bull****ter. So next time there is a press conference, I'm still allowed to be dissatisfied or satisfied with a press conference...BUT.....I will most likely end the press conference by saying "anyway....let's wait and see..." at least 1 time.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Therrien ALSO can't say evertying he knows. And he ALSO has ****** press conferences.....I really hope you are a "let's wait and see" mode for Therrien too....
 

Sterling Archer

Registered User
Sep 26, 2006
22,976
13,449
First of all, he wasn't partying until 6ish. That's what's being spewed out here but all we know is he wasn't in a state to drive and was in his truck. Maybe he was passed out in his truck, on his way home. Maybe he was out till 3am, went back to someone's place for an after party..had some fun with the ladies around 4h..passed out around 5...woke up dazed out and decided to bounce back home with the ladies.
Would that be an impossible scenario?

Of course, another scenario is he's out till 3am..goes to after party..snorts coke till 6am and decides to go back home with two chicks.

In many places around the world clubs don't even close at 3am and it's quite common to party until the sun comes out. It doesn't mean they have some type of issue.

So no need to assume anything about what is ''normal'' and what isn't.

The simple fact is he shouldn't have been in that situation at all. He was already in stage one of the leagues program. That in and of itself means he had a problem and was trying to fix it. Getting in the situation he got himself into shows he's not in control of his own life right now. It doesn't matter if it's scenario one two or three. He shouldn't have been out partying until anytime, period

Because the league suspended him without pay and put him in stage two of the program is enough to prove he showed bid judgement and relapsed into old habits. All the other details surrounding the event are irrelevant. A recovering substance abuser shouldn't be out partying at all. It's that simple.
 

Alex514

Registered User
May 10, 2015
1,990
4
The simple fact is he shouldn't have been in that situation at all. He was already in stage one of the leagues program. That in and of itself means he had a problem and was trying to fix it. Getting in the situation he got himself into shows he's not in control of his own life right now. It doesn't matter if it's scenario one two or three. He shouldn't have been out partying until anytime, period

Because the league suspended him without pay and put him in stage two of the program is enough to prove he showed bid judgement and relapsed into old habits. All the other details surrounding the event are irrelevant. A recovering substance abuser shouldn't be out partying at all. It's that simple.

My thoughts exactly. Well put sir.
 

Sniperr

Registered User
Feb 13, 2015
528
41
You dont get that Bergevin dumped an 18 points in 82 games, 2.5m Brandon Prust for 16 points in 42 games 1.75m Zack Kassian AND a fifth rounder, and turned that remaining 750k savings from Prust into 27 points over 66 games Tomas Fleischmann.

How do you not get that? Even if Kassian never plays, Fleischmann is still better than Prust.

Bergevin say he like character, then get Semin and Kassian. Clearly Bergevin didn't do his homework. :sarcasm:

Or maybe like he said, sometime you have to take a chance with a talented player.. or maybe.. something like that..

I dont get what's so hard to understand.
 

sandysan

Registered User
Dec 7, 2011
24,834
6,388
The simple fact is he shouldn't have been in that situation at all. He was already in stage one of the leagues program. That in and of itself means he had a problem and was trying to fix it. Getting in the situation he got himself into shows he's not in control of his own life right now. It doesn't matter if it's scenario one two or three. He shouldn't have been out partying until anytime, period

Because the league suspended him without pay and put him in stage two of the program is enough to prove he showed bid judgement and relapsed into old habits. All the other details surrounding the event are irrelevant. A recovering substance abuser shouldn't be out partying at all. It's that simple.

Yeah Bergevin should have "black snake moan"ed him. Im sure there is something he could have been chained to against his will at the bell center.

If bergevin knew, and warned him he knew this was a possibilty and he's doing what he has to. You cant insulate people, particularly people with disposable income and youth from temptation. It would be nice if we could, it would be great if Kassian turns it around ans starts making better choices but the notion that if he lived like a hermit that he's "cured" seems pretty far fetched to me. You cant impose respibsibility simply by removing choices, because you cant remove choice for ever.

I still hope he gets help, even if its not with the CH or any other NHL team.
 

Mike Mike Caron

Registered User
Aug 29, 2010
7,471
1,247
First of all, he wasn't partying until 6ish. That's what's being spewed out here but all we know is he wasn't in a state to drive and was in his truck. Maybe he was passed out in his truck, on his way home. Maybe he was out till 3am, went back to someone's place for an after party..had some fun with the ladies around 4h..passed out around 5...woke up dazed out and decided to bounce back home with the ladies.
Would that be an impossible scenario?

Of course, another scenario is he's out till 3am..goes to after party..snorts coke till 6am and decides to go back home with two chicks.

In many places around the world clubs don't even close at 3am and it's quite common to party until the sun comes out. It doesn't mean they have some type of issue.

So no need to assume anything about what is ''normal'' and what isn't.

What if!
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,309
12,998
Toronto, Ontario
Bergevin say he like character, then get Semin and Kassian. Clearly Bergevin didn't do his homework. :sarcasm:

Or maybe like he said, sometime you have to take a chance with a talented player.. or maybe.. something like that..

I dont get what's so hard to understand.

For starters, you're incredibly ignorant and insulting stance that someone battling addiction lacks character is extremely difficult to understand.
 
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