Zack Kassian Part V - 'The Man of Many Faces'

[Zombotron]

Kassian was not a liability last game, period. Kassian was a benefit last game, period. Kassian should be dressed next game, there should be no doubt. If scratches aren't being used to punish bad behaviour, and reward good behaviour... what exactly are the scratches being used for?

If Kassian doesn't get dressed next game, IMHO, all Canuck fans should be in an uproar.

My statement applied to the general spate of games which has generated this whole ongoing argument. No, he wasn't a liability last game.

If scratches aren't being used to punish bad behaviour in the case of this particular player, then we have an issue. However, I think that's exactly what they're being used for.

And yes, I don't exactly disagree with your assertion that he shouldn't be scratched for next game.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I debated whether or not to post this in the Willie thread or the Kassian thread, and I decided on here.

Much has been made about how Kassian's benching seems to be the direct result of Willie Desjardins' (or possibly Jim Benning's) issues with Kassian's game. However, it would seem that the two of them are hardly alone in identifying issues in Kassian's game and, perhaps more importantly, Kassian's game preparation.

Brad Richardson was one such player to comment on it:

“He’s hilarious and you want to be around him. But you need to be ready for games, too. I’m not saying that was an issue, but as you get older you learn better how to prepare and for a guy like him, he needs to learn to pull it in. It’s not like he’s doing a bad job, it’s just that you have to improve and not take a while to get into a game — you’re in the game right away.” Good stuff here from Ben Kuzma. [The Province]

Source: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/1...-still-talking-about-that-martin-hanzal-goal/

If Richardson isn't a player that holds enough clout on the team (or amongst the fanbase) to critique Kassian's game, than the team's Captain, Henrik Sedin, also offered his input on the matter.

“We’ve all seen what Kass can do — he’s big, he’s strong,” Sedin said long after Tuesday’s game. “I compare him to Todd Bertuzzi when he was here, the size and the skill. But this is the NHL — it’s not an easy league. You have to be able to play against the best. You have to be able to play in your own end. You can’t turn the puck over in certain areas. It’s not junior. If you make a big mistake, it usually costs you a game.

“I feel bad for him because there’s a lot of pressure on him to score and be a certain type of player. But he needs to feel like he can just be good, doesn’t need to be great. Just be good and make plays. But he’s going to have to start over and show everyone that he can play.”

Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...tching+flee/10788381/story.html#ixzz3SPCbNhgy

My opinion - and interpretation - of these remarks from two veterans on the team, is that it's not as simple as Kassian puts up some points, makes some brainfarts in a game, and the coach benches him. Those brain farts - and how they could correspondingly cost the team points in the standings - catch the attention of his teammates. I don't think I would categorize either Richardson or Henrik's comments as being frustrated, but I do think that their opinions on Kassian's shortcomings might just have something to do with Willie Desjardins' treatment (re: making Kassian a healthy scratch on various nights) of Zack Kassian.

Now, what does this mean for Zack going forward? There are two divergent theories as to what the team's plans for Kassian are, and they are pretty apparent. 1) They plan to retain and develop Kassian, or 2) They plan to deal Kassian at the soonest opportunity. If the plan was Option 2, I - like many Canuck fans - would be pretty frustrated at how this has all played out, as they have damaged Kassian's value both as an on-ice and off-ice product with this treatment.

If, however, the plan is to proceed with Option 1, then I think that perhaps some patience is required as the Canucks continue to develop Kassian. He's a fan favorite and rightfully so; Todd Bertuzzi was a ridiculously frustrating player before he broke out, because you would see flashes of what he could do when he wanted to, but those games would be sandwiched between bunches of games where his play was defined by indifferent play.

Kassian has had a similar tenure as a Canuck. We've been treated to glimpses of his puckhandling skill, fluid skating, crushing checks and the rare ability to intimidate the opposition and scrap some tough customers. It's a rare combination of talent he possesses, and the fanbase recognizes that. But (again, assuming Option 1 is the plan) it is the job of the Canucks' brain trust to enhance those strengths by ironing out the weaknesses in his game. Namely the defensive brain farts and periodic indifferent play. Each time Desjardins' has scratched Kassian, he has come back into the lineup and hit the score sheet immediately. Is it a coincidence that Kassian seems to play harder when he feels like he has to prove something?

Comparisons are going to be made to Linden Vey and Desjardins' treatment of him. I will admit some frustration in the standards being applied here, but consideration does need to be given to the fact that the two play different positions and showcase different strengths and weaknesses. There are criticisms to be made of Vey, but his effort level - IMO - isn't one of them, and that seems to be one of the biggest issue that the Canucks' management, coaching staff, and even players have with Kassian.

It also bears mentioning that Vey hasn't escaped watching games from the pressbox either. The "what have you done for me lately" version of this, however, has seen Kassian sitting more often - this again could be due to the players' positions. The Canucks are missing two centers in Bonino and Richardson, and can scarcely afford to bench another. Kassian, on the other hand, is an easier victim of a numbers game when it comes to wingers.

In summary - Kassian's treatment, IMO, is not just the byproduct of Willie Desjardins disliking him as a player, or him playing favorites. Clearly some of Kassian's blemishes have been noted by his teammates, and those teammates are going to talk with both each other and the coaching staff. If the plan is to retain Kassian, then it makes sense to work with him on fixing those shortcomings to make him a better player in the eyes of both the coaches and his teammates. One of the biggest accolades that Willie Desjardins had as a coach when he was hired here was his ability to work with and develop younger players. Some benefit of the doubt may be needed here while he works with Kassian.

 

[Grumpy1]

I debated whether or not to post this in the Willie thread or the Kassian thread, and I decided on here.

Much has been made about how Kassian's benching seems to be the direct result of Willie Desjardins' (or possibly Jim Benning's) issues with Kassian's game. However, it would seem that the two of them are hardly alone in identifying issues in Kassian's game and, perhaps more importantly, Kassian's game preparation.

Brad Richardson was one such player to comment on it:



Source: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/1...-still-talking-about-that-martin-hanzal-goal/

If Richardson isn't a player that holds enough clout on the team (or amongst the fanbase) to critique Kassian's game, than the team's Captain, Henrik Sedin, also offered his input on the matter.



Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...tching+flee/10788381/story.html#ixzz3SPCbNhgy

My opinion - and interpretation - of these remarks from two veterans on the team, is that it's not as simple as Kassian puts up some points, makes some brainfarts in a game, and the coach benches him. Those brain farts - and how they could correspondingly cost the team points in the standings - catch the attention of his teammates. I don't think I would categorize either Richardson or Henrik's comments as being frustrated, but I do think that their opinions on Kassian's shortcomings might just have something to do with Willie Desjardins' treatment (re: making Kassian a healthy scratch on various nights) of Zack Kassian.

Now, what does this mean for Zack going forward? There are two divergent theories as to what the team's plans for Kassian are, and they are pretty apparent. 1) They plan to retain and develop Kassian, or 2) They plan to deal Kassian at the soonest opportunity. If the plan was Option 2, I - like many Canuck fans - would be pretty frustrated at how this has all played out, as they have damaged Kassian's value both as an on-ice and off-ice product with this treatment.

If, however, the plan is to proceed with Option 1, then I think that perhaps some patience is required as the Canucks continue to develop Kassian. He's a fan favorite and rightfully so; Todd Bertuzzi was a ridiculously frustrating player before he broke out, because you would see flashes of what he could do when he wanted to, but those games would be sandwiched between bunches of games where his play was defined by indifferent play.

Kassian has had a similar tenure as a Canuck. We've been treated to glimpses of his puckhandling skill, fluid skating, crushing checks and the rare ability to intimidate the opposition and scrap some tough customers. It's a rare combination of talent he possesses, and the fanbase recognizes that. But (again, assuming Option 1 is the plan) it is the job of the Canucks' brain trust to enhance those strengths by ironing out the weaknesses in his game. Namely the defensive brain farts and periodic indifferent play. Each time Desjardins' has scratched Kassian, he has come back into the lineup and hit the score sheet immediately. Is it a coincidence that Kassian seems to play harder when he feels like he has to prove something?

Comparisons are going to be made to Linden Vey and Desjardins' treatment of him. I will admit some frustration in the standards being applied here, but consideration does need to be given to the fact that the two play different positions and showcase different strengths and weaknesses. There are criticisms to be made of Vey, but his effort level - IMO - isn't one of them, and that seems to be one of the biggest issue that the Canucks' management, coaching staff, and even players have with Kassian.

It also bears mentioning that Vey hasn't escaped watching games from the pressbox either. The "what have you done for me lately" version of this, however, has seen Kassian sitting more often - this again could be due to the players' positions. The Canucks are missing two centers in Bonino and Richardson, and can scarcely afford to bench another. Kassian, on the other hand, is an easier victim of a numbers game when it comes to wingers.

In summary - Kassian's treatment, IMO, is not just the byproduct of Willie Desjardins disliking him as a player, or him playing favorites. Clearly some of Kassian's blemishes have been noted by his teammates, and those teammates are going to talk with both each other and the coaching staff. If the plan is to retain Kassian, then it makes sense to work with him on fixing those shortcomings to make him a better player in the eyes of both the coaches and his teammates. One of the biggest accolades that Willie Desjardins had as a coach when he was hired here was his ability to work with and develop younger players. Some benefit of the doubt may be needed here while he works with Kassian.

Amen. Well said

 

[Zombotron]

How conveniently we forget about WD calling up ZK's OHL coach Warren Rychel to get some insight into how his mind works because, uh, hi? He has a Master's in Social Work? He doesn't twiddle his thumbs and throw darts, or think to himself, "I don't like that one " to make lineup decisions.

Thanks, Mr. C.

 

[I in the Eye]

My statement applied to the general spate of games which has generated this whole ongoing argument. No, he wasn't a liability last game.

If scratches aren't being used to punish bad behaviour in the case of this particular player, then we have an issue. However, I think that's exactly what they're being used for.

And yes, I don't exactly disagree with your assertion that he should be scratched for next game.

Can we all use next game to take a step back and re-visit our position on what we think might be going on here?

If Kassian is scratched next game, then Willie isn't using this scratch to punish bad behaviour the previous game. If Kassian is not scratched next game, then Willie is using this roster spot to reward good behaviour last game.

Of course, Burrows will still be hurt, Kassian gets in anyways, and we won't have a chance to peek into Willie's mind one way or another.

 

[Zombotron]

Can we all use next game to take a step back and re-visit our position on what we think might be going on here?

If Kassian is scratched next game, then Willie isn't using this scratch to punish bad behaviour the previous game. If Kassian is not scratched next game, then Willie is using this roster spot to reward good behaviour last game.

Of course, Burrows will still be hurt, Kassian gets in anyways, and we won't have a chance to peek into Willie's mind one way or another.

I will be keeping tabs on the situation, don't you worry.

 

[thepuckmonster]

I debated whether or not to post this in the Willie thread or the Kassian thread, and I decided on here.

Much has been made about how Kassian's benching seems to be the direct result of Willie Desjardins' (or possibly Jim Benning's) issues with Kassian's game. However, it would seem that the two of them are hardly alone in identifying issues in Kassian's game and, perhaps more importantly, Kassian's game preparation.

Brad Richardson was one such player to comment on it:



Source: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/1...-still-talking-about-that-martin-hanzal-goal/

If Richardson isn't a player that holds enough clout on the team (or amongst the fanbase) to critique Kassian's game, than the team's Captain, Henrik Sedin, also offered his input on the matter.



Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...tching+flee/10788381/story.html#ixzz3SPCbNhgy

My opinion - and interpretation - of these remarks from two veterans on the team, is that it's not as simple as Kassian puts up some points, makes some brainfarts in a game, and the coach benches him. Those brain farts - and how they could correspondingly cost the team points in the standings - catch the attention of his teammates. I don't think I would categorize either Richardson or Henrik's comments as being frustrated, but I do think that their opinions on Kassian's shortcomings might just have something to do with Willie Desjardins' treatment (re: making Kassian a healthy scratch on various nights) of Zack Kassian.

Now, what does this mean for Zack going forward? There are two divergent theories as to what the team's plans for Kassian are, and they are pretty apparent. 1) They plan to retain and develop Kassian, or 2) They plan to deal Kassian at the soonest opportunity. If the plan was Option 2, I - like many Canuck fans - would be pretty frustrated at how this has all played out, as they have damaged Kassian's value both as an on-ice and off-ice product with this treatment.

If, however, the plan is to proceed with Option 1, then I think that perhaps some patience is required as the Canucks continue to develop Kassian. He's a fan favorite and rightfully so; Todd Bertuzzi was a ridiculously frustrating player before he broke out, because you would see flashes of what he could do when he wanted to, but those games would be sandwiched between bunches of games where his play was defined by indifferent play.

Kassian has had a similar tenure as a Canuck. We've been treated to glimpses of his puckhandling skill, fluid skating, crushing checks and the rare ability to intimidate the opposition and scrap some tough customers. It's a rare combination of talent he possesses, and the fanbase recognizes that. But (again, assuming Option 1 is the plan) it is the job of the Canucks' brain trust to enhance those strengths by ironing out the weaknesses in his game. Namely the defensive brain farts and periodic indifferent play. Each time Desjardins' has scratched Kassian, he has come back into the lineup and hit the score sheet immediately. Is it a coincidence that Kassian seems to play harder when he feels like he has to prove something?

Comparisons are going to be made to Linden Vey and Desjardins' treatment of him. I will admit some frustration in the standards being applied here, but consideration does need to be given to the fact that the two play different positions and showcase different strengths and weaknesses. There are criticisms to be made of Vey, but his effort level - IMO - isn't one of them, and that seems to be one of the biggest issue that the Canucks' management, coaching staff, and even players have with Kassian.

It also bears mentioning that Vey hasn't escaped watching games from the pressbox either. The "what have you done for me lately" version of this, however, has seen Kassian sitting more often - this again could be due to the players' positions. The Canucks are missing two centers in Bonino and Richardson, and can scarcely afford to bench another. Kassian, on the other hand, is an easier victim of a numbers game when it comes to wingers.

In summary - Kassian's treatment, IMO, is not just the byproduct of Willie Desjardins disliking him as a player, or him playing favorites. Clearly some of Kassian's blemishes have been noted by his teammates, and those teammates are going to talk with both each other and the coaching staff. If the plan is to retain Kassian, then it makes sense to work with him on fixing those shortcomings to make him a better player in the eyes of both the coaches and his teammates. One of the biggest accolades that Willie Desjardins had as a coach when he was hired here was his ability to work with and develop younger players. Some benefit of the doubt may be needed here while he works with Kassian.

Preach brother, preach.

 

[banme*]

Uh, you need to show that they actually led to those points first.

Hint: those points weren't the result of him being scratched.

You made the initial claim and did so again here, can you prove it? Genuinely curious.

 

[Barney Gumble]

How conveniently we forget about WD calling up ZK's OHL coach Warren Rychel to get some insight into how his mind works because, uh, hi? He has a Master's in Social Work? He doesn't twiddle his thumbs and throw darts, or think to himself, "I don't like that one " to make lineup decisions.

Thanks, Mr. C.

After more than half a season. Maybe he should've called him up in the off-season. We aren't talking about a fringe player here but a guy you'd think would be part of the long-term solution for the club.

 

[arsmaster*]

I debated whether or not to post this in the Willie thread or the Kassian thread, and I decided on here.

Much has been made about how Kassian's benching seems to be the direct result of Willie Desjardins' (or possibly Jim Benning's) issues with Kassian's game. However, it would seem that the two of them are hardly alone in identifying issues in Kassian's game and, perhaps more importantly, Kassian's game preparation.

Brad Richardson was one such player to comment on it:



Source: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/1...-still-talking-about-that-martin-hanzal-goal/

If Richardson isn't a player that holds enough clout on the team (or amongst the fanbase) to critique Kassian's game, than the team's Captain, Henrik Sedin, also offered his input on the matter.



Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...tching+flee/10788381/story.html#ixzz3SPCbNhgy

My opinion - and interpretation - of these remarks from two veterans on the team, is that it's not as simple as Kassian puts up some points, makes some brainfarts in a game, and the coach benches him. Those brain farts - and how they could correspondingly cost the team points in the standings - catch the attention of his teammates. I don't think I would categorize either Richardson or Henrik's comments as being frustrated, but I do think that their opinions on Kassian's shortcomings might just have something to do with Willie Desjardins' treatment (re: making Kassian a healthy scratch on various nights) of Zack Kassian.

Now, what does this mean for Zack going forward? There are two divergent theories as to what the team's plans for Kassian are, and they are pretty apparent. 1) They plan to retain and develop Kassian, or 2) They plan to deal Kassian at the soonest opportunity. If the plan was Option 2, I - like many Canuck fans - would be pretty frustrated at how this has all played out, as they have damaged Kassian's value both as an on-ice and off-ice product with this treatment.

If, however, the plan is to proceed with Option 1, then I think that perhaps some patience is required as the Canucks continue to develop Kassian. He's a fan favorite and rightfully so; Todd Bertuzzi was a ridiculously frustrating player before he broke out, because you would see flashes of what he could do when he wanted to, but those games would be sandwiched between bunches of games where his play was defined by indifferent play.

Kassian has had a similar tenure as a Canuck. We've been treated to glimpses of his puckhandling skill, fluid skating, crushing checks and the rare ability to intimidate the opposition and scrap some tough customers. It's a rare combination of talent he possesses, and the fanbase recognizes that. But (again, assuming Option 1 is the plan) it is the job of the Canucks' brain trust to enhance those strengths by ironing out the weaknesses in his game. Namely the defensive brain farts and periodic indifferent play. Each time Desjardins' has scratched Kassian, he has come back into the lineup and hit the score sheet immediately. Is it a coincidence that Kassian seems to play harder when he feels like he has to prove something?

Comparisons are going to be made to Linden Vey and Desjardins' treatment of him. I will admit some frustration in the standards being applied here, but consideration does need to be given to the fact that the two play different positions and showcase different strengths and weaknesses. There are criticisms to be made of Vey, but his effort level - IMO - isn't one of them, and that seems to be one of the biggest issue that the Canucks' management, coaching staff, and even players have with Kassian.

It also bears mentioning that Vey hasn't escaped watching games from the pressbox either. The "what have you done for me lately" version of this, however, has seen Kassian sitting more often - this again could be due to the players' positions. The Canucks are missing two centers in Bonino and Richardson, and can scarcely afford to bench another. Kassian, on the other hand, is an easier victim of a numbers game when it comes to wingers.

In summary - Kassian's treatment, IMO, is not just the byproduct of Willie Desjardins disliking him as a player, or him playing favorites. Clearly some of Kassian's blemishes have been noted by his teammates, and those teammates are going to talk with both each other and the coaching staff. If the plan is to retain Kassian, then it makes sense to work with him on fixing those shortcomings to make him a better player in the eyes of both the coaches and his teammates. One of the biggest accolades that Willie Desjardins had as a coach when he was hired here was his ability to work with and develop younger players. Some benefit of the doubt may be needed here while he works with Kassian.

Been discussed.

Was discussed when he was healthy to play and scratched in late December.

It's no coincidence the apologists gravitate to this when we're talking about 2 months ago. Things change.

Preach it.

 

[NoShowWilly]

it is fair criticism of his play.

It doesn't help to make comments as a leader about another player and then go out and do the same thing though. Henrik Sedin nearly cost this team the game against the Rangers with a terrible turnover. Every turnover that Kassian was reamed for against the Wild was again prevalent with him in the pressbox on Thursday.

Not being engaged is something i've found widespread in this team when it is healthy. Luckily most of them are responsible defensively and get away with it. Doesn't work for Kassian though. He has to work harder because he gets exposed otherwise.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I debated whether or not to post this in the Willie thread or the Kassian thread, and I decided on here.

Much has been made about how Kassian's benching seems to be the direct result of Willie Desjardins' (or possibly Jim Benning's) issues with Kassian's game. However, it would seem that the two of them are hardly alone in identifying issues in Kassian's game and, perhaps more importantly, Kassian's game preparation.

Brad Richardson was one such player to comment on it:



Source: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/1...-still-talking-about-that-martin-hanzal-goal/

If Richardson isn't a player that holds enough clout on the team (or amongst the fanbase) to critique Kassian's game, than the team's Captain, Henrik Sedin, also offered his input on the matter.



Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...tching+flee/10788381/story.html#ixzz3SPCbNhgy

My opinion - and interpretation - of these remarks from two veterans on the team, is that it's not as simple as Kassian puts up some points, makes some brainfarts in a game, and the coach benches him. Those brain farts - and how they could correspondingly cost the team points in the standings - catch the attention of his teammates. I don't think I would categorize either Richardson or Henrik's comments as being frustrated, but I do think that their opinions on Kassian's shortcomings might just have something to do with Willie Desjardins' treatment (re: making Kassian a healthy scratch on various nights) of Zack Kassian.

Now, what does this mean for Zack going forward? There are two divergent theories as to what the team's plans for Kassian are, and they are pretty apparent. 1) They plan to retain and develop Kassian, or 2) They plan to deal Kassian at the soonest opportunity. If the plan was Option 2, I - like many Canuck fans - would be pretty frustrated at how this has all played out, as they have damaged Kassian's value both as an on-ice and off-ice product with this treatment.

If, however, the plan is to proceed with Option 1, then I think that perhaps some patience is required as the Canucks continue to develop Kassian. He's a fan favorite and rightfully so; Todd Bertuzzi was a ridiculously frustrating player before he broke out, because you would see flashes of what he could do when he wanted to, but those games would be sandwiched between bunches of games where his play was defined by indifferent play.

Kassian has had a similar tenure as a Canuck. We've been treated to glimpses of his puckhandling skill, fluid skating, crushing checks and the rare ability to intimidate the opposition and scrap some tough customers. It's a rare combination of talent he possesses, and the fanbase recognizes that. But (again, assuming Option 1 is the plan) it is the job of the Canucks' brain trust to enhance those strengths by ironing out the weaknesses in his game. Namely the defensive brain farts and periodic indifferent play. Each time Desjardins' has scratched Kassian, he has come back into the lineup and hit the score sheet immediately. Is it a coincidence that Kassian seems to play harder when he feels like he has to prove something?

Comparisons are going to be made to Linden Vey and Desjardins' treatment of him. I will admit some frustration in the standards being applied here, but consideration does need to be given to the fact that the two play different positions and showcase different strengths and weaknesses. There are criticisms to be made of Vey, but his effort level - IMO - isn't one of them, and that seems to be one of the biggest issue that the Canucks' management, coaching staff, and even players have with Kassian.

It also bears mentioning that Vey hasn't escaped watching games from the pressbox either. The "what have you done for me lately" version of this, however, has seen Kassian sitting more often - this again could be due to the players' positions. The Canucks are missing two centers in Bonino and Richardson, and can scarcely afford to bench another. Kassian, on the other hand, is an easier victim of a numbers game when it comes to wingers.

In summary - Kassian's treatment, IMO, is not just the byproduct of Willie Desjardins disliking him as a player, or him playing favorites. Clearly some of Kassian's blemishes have been noted by his teammates, and those teammates are going to talk with both each other and the coaching staff. If the plan is to retain Kassian, then it makes sense to work with him on fixing those shortcomings to make him a better player in the eyes of both the coaches and his teammates. One of the biggest accolades that Willie Desjardins had as a coach when he was hired here was his ability to work with and develop younger players. Some benefit of the doubt may be needed here while he works with Kassian.

Can we sticky this? Or put it at the top of every page in this thread? Absolutely agree 100%.

Somebody get this published in the Province!

 

[arsmaster*]

My statement applied to the general spate of games which has generated this whole ongoing argument. No, he wasn't a liability last game.

If scratches aren't being used to punish bad behaviour in the case of this particular player, then we have an issue. However, I think that's exactly what they're being used for.

And yes, I don't exactly disagree with your assertion that he shouldn't be scratched for next game.

It's amazing you have this much psychological insight here. Your program of scratching is Taylor made to on player.

The other players who struggles discipline is different. Right?

Instead of getting grounded and sent to your room without dinner the rest of the roster gets extra dinner and sometimes dessert as discipline.

It's insanity. Give the dog a treat. Praise the good behavior.


-----

You guys actually think McMillan being in the lineup ahead of Kass makes sense? Please respond to this question if it's the only thing you respond to.

Making the team worse to teach lessons is crap coaching. I'm shocked so many people excuse it.

 

[Grumpy1]

it is fair criticism of his play.

It doesn't help to make comments as a leader about another player and then go out and do the same thing though. Henrik Sedin nearly cost this team the game against the Rangers with a terrible turnover. Every turnover that Kassian was reamed for against the Wild was again prevalent with him in the pressbox on thursday.

Not being engaged is something i've found widespread in this team when it is healthy. Luckily most of them are responsible defensively and get away with it. Doesn't work for Kassian though. He has to work harder because he gets exposed otherwise.

The odd miscue by the Sedins is far out weighed by all the other things they bring to the team.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Just for perspectives sake, how many points does Kassian have in his last 10 games?

 

[NoShowWilly]

Just for perspectives sake, how many points does Kassian have in his last 10 games?

8, but he also only has 9 in his last 20.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Can we sticky this? Or put it at the top of every page in this thread? Absolutely agree 100%.

Somebody get this published in the Province!

Would've been relevant two months ago.

 

[CherryToke]

nailed it. now everyone can put the pitchforks away.

 

[TheWanderer]

I debated whether or not to post this in the Willie thread or the Kassian thread, and I decided on here.

Much has been made about how Kassian's benching seems to be the direct result of Willie Desjardins' (or possibly Jim Benning's) issues with Kassian's game. However, it would seem that the two of them are hardly alone in identifying issues in Kassian's game and, perhaps more importantly, Kassian's game preparation.

Brad Richardson was one such player to comment on it:



Source: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/1...-still-talking-about-that-martin-hanzal-goal/

If Richardson isn't a player that holds enough clout on the team (or amongst the fanbase) to critique Kassian's game, than the team's Captain, Henrik Sedin, also offered his input on the matter.



Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...tching+flee/10788381/story.html#ixzz3SPCbNhgy

My opinion - and interpretation - of these remarks from two veterans on the team, is that it's not as simple as Kassian puts up some points, makes some brainfarts in a game, and the coach benches him. Those brain farts - and how they could correspondingly cost the team points in the standings - catch the attention of his teammates. I don't think I would categorize either Richardson or Henrik's comments as being frustrated, but I do think that their opinions on Kassian's shortcomings might just have something to do with Willie Desjardins' treatment (re: making Kassian a healthy scratch on various nights) of Zack Kassian.

Now, what does this mean for Zack going forward? There are two divergent theories as to what the team's plans for Kassian are, and they are pretty apparent. 1) They plan to retain and develop Kassian, or 2) They plan to deal Kassian at the soonest opportunity. If the plan was Option 2, I - like many Canuck fans - would be pretty frustrated at how this has all played out, as they have damaged Kassian's value both as an on-ice and off-ice product with this treatment.

If, however, the plan is to proceed with Option 1, then I think that perhaps some patience is required as the Canucks continue to develop Kassian. He's a fan favorite and rightfully so; Todd Bertuzzi was a ridiculously frustrating player before he broke out, because you would see flashes of what he could do when he wanted to, but those games would be sandwiched between bunches of games where his play was defined by indifferent play.

Kassian has had a similar tenure as a Canuck. We've been treated to glimpses of his puckhandling skill, fluid skating, crushing checks and the rare ability to intimidate the opposition and scrap some tough customers. It's a rare combination of talent he possesses, and the fanbase recognizes that. But (again, assuming Option 1 is the plan) it is the job of the Canucks' brain trust to enhance those strengths by ironing out the weaknesses in his game. Namely the defensive brain farts and periodic indifferent play. Each time Desjardins' has scratched Kassian, he has come back into the lineup and hit the score sheet immediately. Is it a coincidence that Kassian seems to play harder when he feels like he has to prove something?

Comparisons are going to be made to Linden Vey and Desjardins' treatment of him. I will admit some frustration in the standards being applied here, but consideration does need to be given to the fact that the two play different positions and showcase different strengths and weaknesses. There are criticisms to be made of Vey, but his effort level - IMO - isn't one of them, and that seems to be one of the biggest issue that the Canucks' management, coaching staff, and even players have with Kassian.

It also bears mentioning that Vey hasn't escaped watching games from the pressbox either. The "what have you done for me lately" version of this, however, has seen Kassian sitting more often - this again could be due to the players' positions. The Canucks are missing two centers in Bonino and Richardson, and can scarcely afford to bench another. Kassian, on the other hand, is an easier victim of a numbers game when it comes to wingers.

In summary - Kassian's treatment, IMO, is not just the byproduct of Willie Desjardins disliking him as a player, or him playing favorites. Clearly some of Kassian's blemishes have been noted by his teammates, and those teammates are going to talk with both each other and the coaching staff. If the plan is to retain Kassian, then it makes sense to work with him on fixing those shortcomings to make him a better player in the eyes of both the coaches and his teammates. One of the biggest accolades that Willie Desjardins had as a coach when he was hired here was his ability to work with and develop younger players. Some benefit of the doubt may be needed here while he works with Kassian.

100% agree.

People need to read this and think for a second - and not bother with the instant, moronic responses here.

People have been saying "be patient with Kassian, don't give up on him." What about our coach? We can't be patient with our coach? Look what he is doing. He's working relentlessly at making Kassian a real NHLer.

And I agree with the Vey comparison as well - even though it shouldn't be a comparison. Vey's effort is not in question. He is always trying, and he is getting better. The question with Vey is if he can get good enough to stick on a team, because if he plays like this his whole career, he's basically another Ebbett type. He needs to improve. Maybe we can end up with a Derrick Roy type out of Vey.

I do think Vey needs to ride the pine, but we'll have to wait for our centers to get healthy before that happens. McMillan doesn't look good enough to boot Vey out of the line-up.

 

[Lundface*]

I debated whether or not to post this in the Willie thread or the Kassian thread, and I decided on here.

Much has been made about how Kassian's benching seems to be the direct result of Willie Desjardins' (or possibly Jim Benning's) issues with Kassian's game. However, it would seem that the two of them are hardly alone in identifying issues in Kassian's game and, perhaps more importantly, Kassian's game preparation.

Brad Richardson was one such player to comment on it:



Source: http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/1...-still-talking-about-that-martin-hanzal-goal/

If Richardson isn't a player that holds enough clout on the team (or amongst the fanbase) to critique Kassian's game, than the team's Captain, Henrik Sedin, also offered his input on the matter.



Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...tching+flee/10788381/story.html#ixzz3SPCbNhgy

My opinion - and interpretation - of these remarks from two veterans on the team, is that it's not as simple as Kassian puts up some points, makes some brainfarts in a game, and the coach benches him. Those brain farts - and how they could correspondingly cost the team points in the standings - catch the attention of his teammates. I don't think I would categorize either Richardson or Henrik's comments as being frustrated, but I do think that their opinions on Kassian's shortcomings might just have something to do with Willie Desjardins' treatment (re: making Kassian a healthy scratch on various nights) of Zack Kassian.

Now, what does this mean for Zack going forward? There are two divergent theories as to what the team's plans for Kassian are, and they are pretty apparent. 1) They plan to retain and develop Kassian, or 2) They plan to deal Kassian at the soonest opportunity. If the plan was Option 2, I - like many Canuck fans - would be pretty frustrated at how this has all played out, as they have damaged Kassian's value both as an on-ice and off-ice product with this treatment.

If, however, the plan is to proceed with Option 1, then I think that perhaps some patience is required as the Canucks continue to develop Kassian. He's a fan favorite and rightfully so; Todd Bertuzzi was a ridiculously frustrating player before he broke out, because you would see flashes of what he could do when he wanted to, but those games would be sandwiched between bunches of games where his play was defined by indifferent play.

Kassian has had a similar tenure as a Canuck. We've been treated to glimpses of his puckhandling skill, fluid skating, crushing checks and the rare ability to intimidate the opposition and scrap some tough customers. It's a rare combination of talent he possesses, and the fanbase recognizes that. But (again, assuming Option 1 is the plan) it is the job of the Canucks' brain trust to enhance those strengths by ironing out the weaknesses in his game. Namely the defensive brain farts and periodic indifferent play. Each time Desjardins' has scratched Kassian, he has come back into the lineup and hit the score sheet immediately. Is it a coincidence that Kassian seems to play harder when he feels like he has to prove something?

Comparisons are going to be made to Linden Vey and Desjardins' treatment of him. I will admit some frustration in the standards being applied here, but consideration does need to be given to the fact that the two play different positions and showcase different strengths and weaknesses. There are criticisms to be made of Vey, but his effort level - IMO - isn't one of them, and that seems to be one of the biggest issue that the Canucks' management, coaching staff, and even players have with Kassian.

It also bears mentioning that Vey hasn't escaped watching games from the pressbox either. The "what have you done for me lately" version of this, however, has seen Kassian sitting more often - this again could be due to the players' positions. The Canucks are missing two centers in Bonino and Richardson, and can scarcely afford to bench another. Kassian, on the other hand, is an easier victim of a numbers game when it comes to wingers.

In summary - Kassian's treatment, IMO, is not just the byproduct of Willie Desjardins disliking him as a player, or him playing favorites. Clearly some of Kassian's blemishes have been noted by his teammates, and those teammates are going to talk with both each other and the coaching staff. If the plan is to retain Kassian, then it makes sense to work with him on fixing those shortcomings to make him a better player in the eyes of both the coaches and his teammates. One of the biggest accolades that Willie Desjardins had as a coach when he was hired here was his ability to work with and develop younger players. Some benefit of the doubt may be needed here while he works with Kassian.

Good post.

You're also going to have to consider another possibility. Ever wonder why pregame interviews all sound very similar? Or post game for that matter? Most of the time the players are just echoing the sentiments of the coaching staff, the game plan if you will.

If Willy is constantly on Kassians case about his defensive play ( nothing wrong with that ) and tells Zack he won't see time unless he corrects it ( or his work ethic etc ) it wouldn't be hard to see why the players would adopt that as the reason he isn't playing.

It'd very natural and most likely the case here. I think the players want him to do well and are frustrated with the situation too. I'm sure they feel for him, and even if they don't agree, I'm sure they try and preach to him the same stuff the coach does to get him in their good book.

I've heard enough of what Benning and Desjardins want him to become and I think they are brutally wasting an asset. If It's McMillan sure, tell him to run around aimlessly like Dorsett. He should be emulating that kind of player.

If I'm working with kassian I'd rather they stress him to keep his feet moving, stay close to the Puck and engaged in the play. Use your skill when you get it downlow ( example - I'd tell him to take an extra split second to lift the puck or bring it back to your forehand on wrap arounds, because he creates separation and has time ) and go hard to the net. This guy has a ton of potential and they are completely wasting it chaining him to the 3rd/4th line and telling him to emulate Dorsett. I'm all for hard work but I'd rather they work to his strengths, not turn him into something far less valuable.

 

[Zombotron]

It's amazing you have this much psychological insight here. Your program of scratching is Taylor made to on player.

Instead of getting grounded and sent to your room without dinner the rest of the roster gets extra dinner and sometimes dessert as discipline.

It's insanity. Give the dog a treat. Praise the good behavior.

It's not even psychological insight as much as it is a basic, measured inference.

The other players who struggles discipline is different. Right?

Your question has been (inadvertently) responded to:

The odd miscue by the Sedins is far out weighed by all the other things they bring to the team.

With this quote in mind, I'll ask you:

What does Zack Kassian bring to the team when he's having a bad game? A series of bad games? Entire series of bad games marked by indifferent play?

 

[TheWanderer]

Would've been relevant two months ago.

It's even more relevant now, because Kassian didn't take it to heart two month ago up to now, and now he's being benched and "doesn't understand why".

 

[arsmaster*]

The odd miscue by the Sedins is far out weighed by all the other things they bring to the team.

They're the exact same mistakes though.

Nobody believes kassian should be given the leeway that the twins are. But it's entirely hypocritical to gravitate to identical plays made my kassian and trash the kid and then sweep stuff under the rug.

The discipline is not consistent. Vey takes a hooking penalty 170 feet from his net. You can almost envision the 3 pages of posts in this thread if it was Kass. He likely would have sat multiple shifts if it was him.

Dorsett. Lazy hook 200 feet from his own net. Killed the teams momentum. Didn't miss a shift. Still extra attacker.

These are comparable players who should have similar discipline. I don't care bag Dorsett skates around and gets nothing done but he's "buzzing". He's a largely ineffective hockey player with a large leash. It's BS.

I don't want to get into vey really. But he shouldn't be on any pp unit for a while. When we need a goal to tie in the last 5 the hot guys should get reps. Not the coaches pet.

You never hear abut Willie checking on zack's head space after scratches. You heard about him coddling vey when he was a scratch (2 times?).

Pretty clear to me zack needs coddling. Not tough love. The tough love is alienating him. I know id resent some people of I was in his shoes.

I guess this whole thing depends who you compare yourself to in the situation. Seems more people put themselves in the coaches shoes. I identify a lot with kassian so I can see his frustration and why I tend to stick up for him. I identify with the person being disciplined not be disciplinarian.

 

[Barney Gumble]

It's even more relevant now, because Kassian didn't take it to heart two month ago up to now, and now he's being benched and "doesn't understand why".

Benched for future Guy Carbonneau in the name of McMillan.

He's able to shutdown Matthias completely.

 

[arsmaster*]

Can we sticky this? Or put it at the top of every page in this thread? Absolutely agree 100%.

Somebody get this published in the Province!

He didn't mention 3 coaches though.

Would have to edit the 3 coaches in there somewhere.