Zack Kassian Part V - 'The Man of Many Faces'

[Barney Gumble]

I think there's a couple of reasons. The PP is developed around set plays and positioning. They practice as a unit so it's tough to substitute a player in that hasn't been practicing with them. Combine that with Kassian doesn't seem to be good at being thrown into set strategies. When he's good it's on the fly with great passes, a great shot and lots of muscle when he has the puck.

Think there's problem with time allocation when you have guys like McMillan and Dorsett getting practice time on the power play.

 

[damack]

Think there's problem with time allocation when you have guys like McMillan and Dorsett getting practice time on the power play.

True, but when it was assumed Kassian wasn't playing, why would he practice with the PP? I'd bet that if he can play himself back into the regular lineup, he'll get the opportunity.

 

[The Optimist]

True, but when it was assumed Kassian wasn't playing, why would he practice with the PP? I'd bet that if he can play himself back into the regular lineup, he'll get the opportunity.

Kassian is literally playing point per game hockey what more does he have to do to play himself into the line up. Some people here are willing to follow Willie off a cliff if he told them to it seems.

 

[rune74]

True, but when it was assumed Kassian wasn't playing, why would he practice with the PP? I'd bet that if he can play himself back into the regular lineup, he'll get the opportunity.

The problem with that plan is how does he do that? He's played good enough so far but has been benched....if he had won us the game last night I would think sure he's back in. I'm not even sure he gets on the ice next game. Willie is more excited by the waiver pickup.

 

[rune74]

Just watching some clips of Henrik post game, when asked about Kassian he gave him a bit of credit but seemed to brush it off. The attitude with him seems to run deeper than the coaching staff.

Kassian was my favourite player last season, the good parts of his game are so dynamic. This year I was hoping for better, but the bad parts of his game were seemingly magnified. You can't help but wish for the guy to shore up his defensive game a bit so he can be out there every game.

And off topic, I've never been a Vey hater. He's sort of a "meh" player in my eyes and the only reason he's given the roles he's player in is because our center position is a big bag of broken bones. I sure hope when we get Richardson and Bonino back he's up in the press box because he looks like a boy playing with men out there.

I think what we saw from Sedin is that he was playing switzerland there, he likes the new coach and he likes Kassian, said enough to make both sides happy without shaking the boat.

 

[arsmaster*]

True, but when it was assumed Kassian wasn't playing, why would he practice with the PP? I'd bet that if he can play himself back into the regular lineup, he'll get the opportunity.

You bet?

He just had a 6 game point streak?

It didn't buy him a single rep on the pp and one bad game got him scratched.

Benefit of the doubt going to WD far too much.

It was hilarious watching Vey get manhandled in the net front role last night. I'm sure there are some who saw that as excellent coaching too.

 

[vanuck]

How was he doing before the scratching began? I mean if you can prove WD's recent tactics haven't increased his production, go for it

Uh, you need to show that they actually led to those points first.

Hint: those points weren't the result of him being scratched.

 

[vanuck]

I actually think it's a great analysis.

Kassian plays well after a scratch.....Willie is brilliant for pushing his buttons
Kassian sucks after a scratch...Willie is proven right for scratching him.

Win argument either way.

Exactly this. WD can't lose and it's plain to see in this thread. When really Kassian's game hasn't really been all that different since he settled in after coming back from that injury earlier in the season. But now pucks are going in for him whereas they weren't before so people are going to think he's playing well all of a sudden. The mistake is in thinking points = playing well, no points = not playing well.

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That’s specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It’s just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]

Yeah, some dubious correlation going on here.

 

[Scurr]

Yeah, exactly this. When really Kassian's game hasn't really been all that different since he settled in after coming back from that injury earlier in the season. But now pucks are going in for him whereas they weren't before so people are going to think he's playing well all of a sudden. The mistake is in thinking points = playing well, no points = not playing well.

That's the argument being made for Kassian… he shouldn't be scratched because -points!
---
One segment of the fanbase won't give the prairie coach any credit

The other wants to give him too much

Predictable... and boring.

 

[arsmaster*]

That's the argument being made for Kassian… he shouldn't be scratched because -points!
---
One segment of the fanbase won't give the prairie coach any credit

The other wants to give him too much

Predictable... and boring.

If you read the game day because I'm assuming you're lumping me into one side I gave desjardins credit for making the in game shift to get kassian on that line.

It was smart. And providing the entire lineup with energy.

 

[vanuck]

That's the argument being made for Kassian… he shouldn't be scratched because -points!
---
One segment of the fanbase won't give the prairie coach any credit

The other wants to give him too much

Predictable... and boring.

If I were to use the same logic of posters who claimed he should've been scratched because his positives (offense) didn't outweigh his negatives (defensive play) then his recent run should be enough to dispel that. And that the 6 points in 7 games before this game should be reason enough to keep using him in the lineup.

But personally I thought he should never have been scratched even when he wasn't producing.

 

[Scurr]

If you read the game day because I'm assuming you're lumping me into one side I gave desjardins credit for making the in game shift to get kassian on that line.

It was smart. And providing the entire lineup with energy.

Is that the full quote? I can't find it.

If I were to use the same logic of posters who claimed he should've been scratched because his positives (offense) didn't outweigh his negatives (defensive play) then his recent run should be enough to dispel that. And that the 6 points in 7 games before this game should be reason enough to keep using him in the lineup.

But personally I thought he should never have been scratched even when he wasn't producing.

Yeah, exactly this. When really Kassian's game hasn't really been all that different since he settled in after coming back from that injury earlier in the season. But now pucks are going in for him whereas they weren't before so people are going to think he's playing well all of a sudden. The mistake is in thinking points = playing well, no points = not playing well.

whatever.

 

[sutlaf]

What happened the last time Kass played with the Sedins? Good things...Hmm.

Beginning of the lockout season where he scored a bunch of goals early on... and this

 

[damack]

Kassian is literally playing point per game hockey what more does he have to do to play himself into the line up. Some people here are willing to follow Willie off a cliff if he told them to it seems.

I'm sure it's been mentioned a billion times in this thread already. He needs to not be a defensive liability.

The NY game made perfect sense to me. The Rangers are so fast, any blunders in the neutral and defensive zone would be taken advantage of, and that's the big guy's weak spot.

It's also why I doubt you'll see him on the top 2 lines even if he gets back into the lineup. Those lines match up against the opponents best lines, they need to be able to shut them down and limit chances.

 

[Zombotron]

I'm sure it's been mentioned a billion times in this thread already. He needs to not be a defensive liability.

The NY game made perfect sense to me. The Rangers are so fast, any blunders in the neutral and defensive zone would be taken advantage of, and that's the big guy's weak spot.

It's also why I doubt you'll see him on the top 2 lines even if he gets back into the lineup. Those lines match up against the opponents best lines, they need to be able to shut them down and limit chances.

He needs to not be a liability, period. The reason he doesn't see plum offensive minutes or powerplay time is just that. I'm thinking he'll get some of those things before the end of the season and all this nonsense about his mistreatment will disappear.

 

[TheWanderer]

The knock with Kassian playing with the Sedins back then was that he was scoring, but taking away from them (Daniel) scoring the goals. Well, Daniel has been the set up guy since his head injury, so is this no longer a problem?

I think there is a small bit of evidence that should suggest we just keep Kassian with the Sedins and give them a hugely disproportionate number of offensive zone starts and see if Kassian will just keep scoring goals as their winger. I'm not going to dig up the stats, but someone may know a fast way - how many goals/60min (career) has Kassian scored when playing with the Sedins?

Let's be honest - if this is Kassian's one and only niche, but it produces at the rate that he has on their wing, why not? Just play him there. Boost his confidence. Boost his value. Protect the Sedins. Divide the toughness, the grit, the size. Whatever. Just play him beside the Sedins until he falters (which he may or may not do).

Put Burrows beside Vrbata and call it a second line, and take Kassian out of the bottom 6. Make the Kassian pom-pom wavers happy. Win-Win-Win if you ask me. That's ...#tri-winning

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Burrows - Bonino - Vrbata
Matthias - Richardson - Hansen/Dorsett/Vey
Kenins - Horvat - Hansen/Dorsett/Vey
Dorsett/Vey

EDIT: forgot about Higgins. Can he play RW?


Next, figure out that cluster**** defence.

 

[Zombotron]

The knock with Kassian playing with the Sedins back then was that he was scoring, but taking away from them (Daniel) scoring the goals. Well, Daniel has been the set up guy since his head injury, so is this no longer a problem?

I think there is a small bit of evidence that should suggest we just keep Kassian with the Sedins and give them a hugely disproportionate number of offensive zone starts and see if Kassian will just keep scoring goals as their winger.

I'm not going to dig up the stats, but someone may no a fast way - how many goals/60min has Kassian scored when playing with the Sedins?

Let's be honest - if this is Kassian's one and only niche, but it produces at the rate that he has on their wing, why not? Just play him there. Boost his confidence. Boost his value. Protect the Sedins. Divide the toughness, the grit, the size. Whatever. Just play him beside the Sedins until he falters (which he may or may not do).

Put Burrows beside Vrbata and call it a second line, and take Kassian out of the bottom 6. Make the Kassian pom-pom wavers happy. Win-Win-Win if you ask me. That's ...#tri-winning

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Burrows - Bonino - Vrbata
Matthias - Richardson - Hansen/Dorsett/Vey
Kenins - Horvat - Hansen/Dorsett/Vey
Dorsett/Vey


Next, figure out that cluster**** defence.

I've been hoping to see a Burrows - Bonino - Vrbata line for some time now.

 

[TheWanderer]

I've been hoping to see a Burrows - Bonino - Vrbata line for some time now.

I think it makes sense as a line.

 

[I in the Eye]

He needs to not be a liability, period. The reason he doesn't see plum offensive minutes or powerplay time is just that. I'm thinking he'll get some of those things before the end of the season and all this nonsense about his mistreatment will disappear.

Kassian was not a liability last game, period. Kassian was a benefit last game, period. Kassian should be dressed next game, there should be no doubt. If scratches aren't being used to punish bad behaviour, and reward good behaviour... what exactly are the scratches being used for?

If Kassian doesn't get dressed next game, IMHO, all Canuck fans should be in an uproar.

 

[arttk]

He needs to not be a liability, period. The reason he doesn't see plum offensive minutes or powerplay time is just that. I'm thinking he'll get some of those things before the end of the season and all this nonsense about his mistreatment will disappear.

That would make sense if the person replacing him wasn't Mcmilian. His line got out shot 17-1 last night. Kass don't even play enough minutes in a game to have that kind of negative influence.

 

[arsmaster*]

Is that the full quote? I can't find it.




whatever.

"Yup. Credit to WD knowing they needed a lift".

By putting kassian with the twins.

Now mind you it wasn't a page later I laid into his stupid coaching decisions again.

Credit where it's due. Criticism is the same. And IMO he's been due a lot and people are trying to credit him for Horvat and kassian and that's just an insult to the intelligence of most of us.

 

[TheWanderer]

Kassian was not a liability last game, period. Kassian was a benefit last game, period. Kassian should be dressed next game, there should be no doubt. If scratches aren't being used to punish bad behaviour, and reward good behaviour... what exactly are the scratches being used for?

If Kassian doesn't get dressed next game, IMHO, all Canuck fans should be in an uproar.

I was in favor of the initial scratch, but the most recent one was a joke, and I agree that he should not be scratched unless he strings together a few bad games in a row.

But at the same time, I will say: We are trying to make the play-offs. We need to win games. We don't have time for this guy if he's going to take games off.

 

[damack]

Kassian was not a liability last game, period. Kassian was a benefit last game, period. Kassian should be dressed next game, there should be no doubt. If scratches aren't being used to punish bad behaviour, and reward good behaviour... what exactly are the scratches being used for?

If Kassian doesn't get dressed next game, IMHO, all Canuck fans should be in an uproar.

I'll agree with this. I though he played as best I've seen him away from the puck last night. If he doesn't play next game I'll be surprised.

 

[I in the Eye]

I'll agree with this. I though he played as best I've seen him away from the puck last night. If he doesn't play next game I'll be surprised.

If he plays next game I'll be surprised.

I'm hoping I'm surprised, and you're not.

I was in favor of the initial scratch, but the most recent one was a joke, and I agree that he should not be scratched unless he strings together a few bad games in a row.

But at the same time, I will say: We are trying to make the play-offs. We need to win games. We don't have time for this guy if he's going to take games off.

I'd say if we're trying to make the playoffs, we need to win games. We don't have time trying to give waiver fodder the spot over a non-liability Kassian.

 

[arsmaster*]

Sometimes I wish I had skills to edit videos. The stuff people gravitate to when trying to defend "prairie coach" (even Scurr is using his term now so I can) is insane to me.

The crap penalties and turnovers the rest of the roster is permitted to take compounds the issues with Kassian's handling.

Honestly I don't think his game has really changed over this productive stretch other than the one play where he looked neutered chipping it out to open ice instead of completing a pass.

What makes me laugh is the people who've lauded him for change when really there hasn't been much. He's just productive.