Zack Kassian kicks Erik Cernak with his skate blade (Mod warning in OP)

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Kassian himself sure seems to think it was nothing

“I was trying to get off and pull my leg off,” explained Kassian. “He was holding me and Archie down, I didn’t even know where the puck was, I was trying to pull my leg up and get up.”

Oilers burned by Kassian's kick, Draisaitl's mistake - Sportsnet.ca

Ahh, the Chris Pronger defense.

Pronger got 8 games for his stomp. Kassian should get at least 10. It's clearly intentional and obviously you can't have players kicking anyone when they have giant razor sharp blades on their feet.

 

[Kirk Mclean]

Even though he plays for the Oilers now I’m a big fan of Kassian, but I think they gotta give him 10 games. This kind of thing needs to have an example set out of it when this is a sport with guys playing at high speeds with knives attached to their feet, and I often feel surprised accidents or incidents don’t happen more often.

 

[bucks_oil]

One day the league will actually brighten up and will start imposing suspensions based on the actual danger of the play and not the result.

Too often the league punished the outcome, not the actual action. It's not because there was no one hurt that a skate kick toward a part of a body should not be harshly suspendable offence.

No matter if there was injury or not, you make a statement that all others players will understand : Only area the skates should be pushed against is the ice surface.

As a player (goalie often tangled up in skates), I completely agree with you. Non-subjective suspension standards based on the stupidity/irresponsibility and potential for injury... could potentially curtail behavior and make the game safer.

But as of now, there is great subjectivity in the determination of suspension lengths... and thus my point. The context will matter.

 

[wretched34]

You think hockey chest protectors are "light foam"? They're made of plastic and some have bloody kevlar in them. These guys aren't rocking the old Cooper pads.

This is the issue with this whole thread. You've got Calgary fans pretending they have some sort of leg to stand on when it comes to dirty plays and others claiming he tried to kill the guy.

He's getting a big suspension that he rightfully deserves, but just like anything in life, when you blow it out of proportion, your arguments get lost in hyperbole.

You ever worn equipment?

Cernak wears a Bauer Vapor APX2

Weight:	835 Grams	Weight of the product measured in grams (Sr Med, Jr Med, Yth Med).
Removable Stomach Pad:	Yes	Does it have a removable stomach pad?
Sternum Plate:	Aerolite Technology	Protective material covering the sternum.
Spine Protection:	Aerolite Technology	Protective material covering the spine.
Biceps:	Aerolite Technology	Type of design and/or protective padding of the bicep.
Shoulder Cap:	Aerolite Technology	Type of design and/or protective padding of the shoulder cap.
Liner:	37.5 Tchnology	Material that lines the interior of the product.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Foam no kevlar, professional hockey players aren't out there wearing melted down tanks as shoulder pads. High density foams protect from blunt impact trauma, not skate blades.
Shin Gaurds and Skate boots are far more protective, as they are designed to be hit with sticks and skates in a way most guys don't expect their chest to be hit.

 

[ElysiumAB]

What comparison?

You quoted my post, in which I literally say, "If you want to compare..."

Then ask me what comparison.

If you're not following the conversation or reading, I guess, don't quote people and interject with silly comments.

Spare parts.

 

[Jedub]

yes... that play. Do you think you can determine justice without seeing it? If yes, we have an argument. If not... you agree with my only point: you need to see the play in its context (in addition to interviews and prior history) to determine justice. That's the primary point I'm making.

Kinda seems like your main point is that we should take it easy on Zack Kassian. Sure, generally speaking you need to see the whole event before making a judgement, but everybody knows that the punishment for kicking is dependent on the act of kicking. Not why or how.

 

[CNeufeld]

Kassian himself sure seems to think it was nothing

“I was trying to get off and pull my leg off,” explained Kassian. “He was holding me and Archie down, I didn’t even know where the puck was, I was trying to pull my leg up and get up.”

Oilers burned by Kassian's kick, Draisaitl's mistake - Sportsnet.ca

Great job on editing the quote, which is actually (from the link you provided):
“It felt like we were there a lifetime. We were down there for a while,” Kassian said. “He was holding my leg, it was reactionary. I was just trying to get him off me, kick him off me. I was just trying to get my foot loose.
“If I kicked him hard, I think he would have flew back or the ref would have called a penalty.”

My opinion... Kassian wasn't actually trying to injure the Cernak; if he was trying to do that he could have kicked harder and even picked a different spot (like Cernak's face). But it was incredibly stupid. You don't "push" someone with a knife blade cause that's just stupid. Given his recent suspension and discussion with DoPS just a month ago, his suspension will be meaningful.

As far as "the code" goes, AFAIK it encompasses more than just being willing to drop the gloves when you throw a questionable hit. It also encompasses things like not kicking, two-handing someone in the head with a stick, fish-hooking, eye-gouging, blind punches, etc. Being willing to drop your gloves when you "break the code" is PART of the code, but not the entire thing.

As far as Cernak not reacting, maybe it's because, unlike Kassian, he realized there was a hockey game going on, and since he wasn't hurt, the smarter move was to not get into a fight.

And finally, Kassian started this whole thing by wrapping his arm around Cernak and pulling him down on top of himself and Archibald. And at the time of the kick, both his legs were free.

C

 

[bucks_oil]

maybe if the jury watched the entire murder clip instead of just watching the actual act of killing it might sway the jury.....

Since you are busy making stupid analogies... you of course realize that involuntary manslaughter < voluntary manslaughter < 2nd degree murder < 1st degree murder. So yeah... the entire murder clip (as well as the events leading up to it) would certainly factor into that determination.

 

[God King Fudge]

Guys. I went back and watched every Tampa game starting with the 04 Cup run and ending with last night's tilt against the Oilers.

With the full context of what happened (and I'll be fair, I did need to see game #28 of the 2010 season to really get it), Kassian still kicked a player with his skate.

Thanks for checking out my reasonable take with context.

 

[cvrle1]

Not sure if this was talked about in the last 40 pages, but in the discussion they had on TSN yesterday, they said this incident is between Skinner kick back in 2012 and Pronger stomp. Skinner got 2, Pronger got 8, so they said 5-6 games coming for Kassian. Seeing how he has in person hearing, that could be the case, as in person pretty much guarantees min 5 games.

 

[burstnbloom]

Finally an incident worthy of the outrage on HFBoards. Not great, Zach. It would be a pretty big number of games before I said "that's too much."

 

[Dubi Doo]

I had a friend who played house hockey. He got jumped on the ice, and kicked towards a player to get them off of him. Ended up slicing the kid's wrist open. My friend was never allowed back in the league.

The NHL better not play around here. I'd give him a 25 game suspension. 15 is the minimum. If it happens again, he's out of the league.

 

[Syrinx]

But Kassian didn't kick him in an exposed area.
He would have had to kick him really hard to cut through the jersey and padding.

It doesn't justify what Kassian did as it was utterly moronic and deserves a lengthy suspension but people are overstating the danger it presented to Cernak.

I don't think so. If Cernak moves just a bit and/or if the blade slides (what it's essentially designed to do) up the jersey a bit, he's in the neck area. It was extremely dangerous.

(I have no dog in this fight at all)

 

[Kranix]

You quoted my post, in which I literally say, "If you want to compare..."

Then ask me what comparison.

If you're not following the conversation or reading, I guess, don't quote people and interject with silly comments.

Spare parts.

I forgot that part of your post already. But, you don't, I guess, get what's going on here. It has nothing to do with Tkachuk. Nobody is making that comparison.
We're just laughing at Kassian and the code club. Because he kicked a guy with a skate not long after going gorilla-ape-**** and ranting about the code.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Not sure if this was talked about in the last 40 pages, but in the discussion they had on TSN yesterday, they said this incident is between Skinner kick back in 2012 and Pronger stomp. Skinner got 2, Pronger got 8, so they said 5-6 games coming for Kassian. Seeing how he has in person hearing, that could be the case, as in person pretty much guarantees min 5 games.

Even for the Spin the Wheel DoPS, anything less than 5 games would be insane.

And anything less than 10 will be getting off easy.

 

[Connor McConnor]

10 games and a fine

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Kassian himself sure seems to think it was nothing

“I was trying to get off and pull my leg off,” explained Kassian. “He was holding me and Archie down, I didn’t even know where the puck was, I was trying to pull my leg up and get up.”

Oilers burned by Kassian's kick, Draisaitl's mistake - Sportsnet.ca

Yes, when I'm pulling my leg AWAY from something that is trapping it, I too kick it back TOWARDS the thing that was trapping it. Just in case I wanted a bit more.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Wonder if they'll rule him out for the rest of the season.

You never can tell, with Parros, but what a statement that would be from the league.

 

[OilCanada92]

I don't get it. It seemed like he had turned a corner. Sure, he was still an agitator that would walk the line between clean and dirty, but I thought this type of stuff was behind him.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Great job on editing the quote, which is actually (from the link you provided):
“It felt like we were there a lifetime. We were down there for a while,” Kassian said. “He was holding my leg, it was reactionary. I was just trying to get him off me, kick him off me. I was just trying to get my foot loose.
“If I kicked him hard, I think he would have flew back or the ref would have called a penalty.”

My opinion... Kassian wasn't actually trying to injure the Cernak; if he was trying to do that he could have kicked harder and even picked a different spot (like Cernak's face). But it was incredibly stupid. You don't "push" someone with a knife blade cause that's just stupid. Given his recent suspension and discussion with DoPS just a month ago, his suspension will be meaningful.

As far as "the code" goes, AFAIK it encompasses more than just being willing to drop the gloves when you throw a questionable hit. It also encompasses things like not kicking, two-handing someone in the head with a stick, fish-hooking, eye-gouging, blind punches, etc. Being willing to drop your gloves when you "break the code" is PART of the code, but not the entire thing.

As far as Cernak not reacting, maybe it's because, unlike Kassian, he realized there was a hockey game going on, and since he wasn't hurt, the smarter move was to not get into a fight.

And finally, Kassian started this whole thing by wrapping his arm around Cernak and pulling him down on top of himself and Archibald. And at the time of the kick, both his legs were free.

C

I didn't edit it down, as what I posted clearly isn't contained within what you did. We quoted different parts of the article.

 

[duul]

Toss him for the rest of the season. I don't want to see him playing with McDavid ever again.

 

[Kranix]

If he's out the rest of the season, there goes the season. He's a key cog, like Kris Russell and Jujar Khaira. They can't afford to lose these types of guys for extended periods.

 

[bucks_oil]

Kinda seems like your main point is that we should take it easy on Zack Kassian. Sure, generally speaking you need to see the whole event before making a judgement, but everybody knows that the punishment for kicking is dependent on the act of kicking. Not why or how.

1) that is certainly not my point (taking it easy on Kassian). go read all of my posts... not a single one says that.... you may be jumping to that conclusion based on username.
2) there is no standard suspension for kicking. They are going to apply their subjective judgment. Thus, the context of the video helps.

In nearly any NHL suspension they consider: i) history of the player, ii) imputed intent of the act (e.g. retaliatory, premeditated, heat of moment, accidental, etc), iii) injury to the other player, iv) danger or irresponsibility of the act insofar as player safety is concerned.

You can't derive an answer to ii or iii from the very short clip in the OP, thus I requested that the longer clip be put up... and then all hell broke loose. (in fairness, all hell had already broken loose, I just waded into it)

 

[5 Minute Major]

Awful.

Kassian needs to be shown severe discipline over this....Myles Garrett-like. At the very least the rest of the season and then review it this off-season.

 

[Jedub]

1) that is certainly not my point (taking it easy on Kassian). go read all of my posts... not a single one says that.... you may be jumping to that conclusion based on username.
2) there is no standard suspension for kicking. They are going to apply their subjective judgment. Thus, the context of the video helps.

In nearly any NHL suspension they consider: i) history of the player, ii) imputed intent of the act (e.g. retaliatory, premeditated, heat of moment, accidental, etc), iii) injury to the other player, iv) danger or irresponsibility of the act insofar as player safety is concerned.

You can't derive an answer to ii or iii from the very short clip in the OP, thus I requested that the longer clip be put up... and then all hell broke loose. (in fairness, all hell had already broken loose, I just waded into it)

Your comments read like that when you are so fixated on everyone taking "the whole play" into consideration.
And I read all your comments, I read the whole thread.