Zach Hyman

MessierII

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For the price he’s asking, he better reproduce all of it and add. No way that’s happening IMO. He won’t even get close, and I’m not talking about years 3-4, I’m talking about year 1 before any physical decline.

And I agree, there’s always talk about we need to get McD or Drai a winger and blah blah blah. Why do we need to do this exactly? They both took turns leading the League, they are so talented we shouldn’t be needing to supplement their offense with a 5-6M contract. If anything we should be putting cheap, high ceiling players next to them so they can make some assets more valuable for us.

what we need is secondary scoring. Someone that can do it without being stapled next to McDrai. That player in Hall in spades. The perfect fit for this team.
Hall has mediocre finishing skills and is a way bigger injury risk than any UFA available. Hall is exactly the type of player you avoid on a long term deal at his age. If Hall wanted to sign a 2 year deal I’d be all for it.

Everyone knows this and that’s why Hyman is generating more interest.
 

TheNumber4

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Hall has mediocre finishing skills and is a way bigger injury risk than any UFA available. Hall is exactly the type of player you avoid on a long term deal at his age. If Hall wanted to sign a 2 year deal I’d be all for it.

Everyone knows this and that’s why Hyman is generating more interest.

Hall is a way better offensive player than Hyman. Not even close really. Goal scoring is not his main focus, which is fine because he’s an elite playmaker as well. Hall is a lot less wreckless these days than in the past, but I will agree he presents some injury risk but I don’t think it’s much more than your average elite forward.

Hyman is generating interest from Van, Calgary, and Edmonton. Hall has generated interested from Colorado, Boston, Toronto. I’d pick the talent assessment of the 2nd group over the first. How bout you?
 

nabob

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Hall is a way better offensive player than Hyman. Not even close really. Goal scoring is not his main focus, which is fine because he’s an elite playmaker as well. Hall is a lot less wreckless these days than in the past, but I will agree he presents some injury risk but I don’t think it’s much more than your average elite forward.

Hyman is generating interest from Van, Calgary, and Edmonton. Hall has generated interested from Colorado, Boston, Toronto. I’d pick the talent assessment of the 2nd group over the first. How bout you?
Sorry but when did Hall become an elite playmaker?
 

McDoused

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For the price he’s asking, he better reproduce all of it and add. No way that’s happening IMO. He won’t even get close, and I’m not talking about years 3-4, I’m talking about year 1 before any physical decline.

And I agree, there’s always talk about we need to get McD or Drai a winger and blah blah blah. Why do we need to do this exactly? They both took turns leading the League, they are so talented we shouldn’t be needing to supplement their offense with a 5-6M contract. If anything we should be putting cheap, high ceiling players next to them so they can make some assets more valuable for us.

what we need is secondary scoring. Someone that can do it without being stapled next to McDrai. That player in Hall in spades. The perfect fit for this team.

Man do I want Hall, hes one of my favourite players in the league but I'm not sure how much I agree with this. Hall or Hyman would be our McWinger. Neither of those guys will be playing on the 3rd line and dont need to be able drive a line. The just need to be the best option for McDavid or Draisaitl.

The Oilers also need depth scoring and guys who arent going to get caved in when the big guys are off the ice.

I think Kassian, Archibald, McLeod and Holloway are a good start but we still need a #3 LW and a #3C. My guess is we get one of those in the offseason and another at the trade deadline.
 

nabob

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Probably the year he was voted most valuable player in the entire league. But wasn’t before that too, he was probably pretty good at playmaking when he was the scouts consensus as the best player of his draft year and maybe when he won 2 memorial cups too.
Hmmm ok. So winning a Hart trophy means you’re an elite playmaker? Don’t think he was drafted 1st overall for his playmaking skills.
 

MessierII

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For a guy who apparently has mediocre finishing skills, he sure looked impressive as a bruin.

So are we just doing those 16 games or do the 135 games before that still count?

Hall has been injury riddled and inconsistent throughout his 20’s and this is a player people want to sign well into his 30’s?

Hall is EXACTLY the type of player they are talking about when they say watch out for long term UFA deals on free agent day.
 
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TheNumber4

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Man do I want Hall, hes one of my favourite players in the league but I'm not sure how much I agree with this. Hall or Hyman would be our McWinger. Neither of those guys will be playing on the 3rd line and dont need to be able drive a line. The just need to be the best option for McDavid or Draisaitl.

The Oilers also need depth scoring and guys who arent going to get caved in when the big guys are off the ice.

I think Kassian, Archibald, McLeod and Holloway are a good start but we still need a #3 LW and a #3C. My guess is we get one of those in the offseason and another at the trade deadline.
Hall or Hyman could be our McWinger sure. I just don’t think it’d make sense to add 6M to McDavids 12.5M when he’s already producing at generational numbers without that kind of help. Secondary scoring is our biggest need. It’d make sense to have a line driver further down the line up, we know Hall can drive offence and we know he’s got familiarity with Nuge. I’m not married to the idea, but I’d like to see it tried. Teams would be in tough trying to stop 3 legit scoring lines, all 3 with Hart trophy winners driving the lines.

They could load up the top 2 lines as well. But then we’re back to where we were for the last 4 years, looking for options that can contribute offensively in the bottom 6. We didn’t find them before, hard to expect us to find them when the cap space has been allotted to the top 6.
 
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TheNumber4

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Hmmm ok. So winning a Hart trophy means you’re an elite playmaker? Don’t think he was drafted 1st overall for his playmaking skills.
Winning the Hart trophy speaks to him as an elite dynamic offensive player overall. I think elite playmaking is in there too, you may disagree, so let’s say “very good” playmaking so we can move on from the semantics.
 

nabob

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Winning the Hart trophy speaks to him as an elite dynamic offensive player overall. I think elite playmaking is in there too, you may disagree, so let’s say “very good” playmaking so we can move on from the semantics.
It’s not really semantics when you’re exaggerating a players abilities and using that as justification for potentially overpaying for the player.

I’m not even sure I would call Hall a very good playmaker at this point. And that’s coming from someone who is a huge fan.
 

McAsuno

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So are we just doing those 16 games or do the 135 games before that still count?

Hall has been injury riddled and inconsistent throughout his 20’s and this is a player people want to sign well into his 30’s?

Hall is EXACTLY the type of player they are talking about when they say watch out for long term UFA deals on free agent day.

You said he lacked finishing, but obviously being rejuvenated on a different team that isn't a complete tirefire in Buffalo showcased more of his actual talent, did it not? No doubt he has injury concerns, but he's still a top 6 forward that would help and take pressure off our two superstars in Mcdrai. Like you said, you prefer him for 2 years which is fine. I personally have no interest in signing Hyman who's the type of player who will have injury issues based on his playstyle. Hyman long term contract is just asking for a disaster. Anyways, we'll see what happens. Just thinking of Hyman being a potential 6-7m to a 6x7 term is just gross.
 
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TheNumber4

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It’s not really semantics when you’re exaggerating a players abilities and using that as justification for potentially overpaying for the player.

I’m not even sure I would call Hall a very good playmaker at this point. And that’s coming from someone who is a huge fan.
Hall has always been know to be a good passer, if you don’t want to call it elite it’s fine and I could see it. But he is most definitely in the very good category of playmaking in this League.

You could say I was using it for justification for getting Hall, but his playmaking is only one piece of my argument. Why we should get him is cause he’s an elite offensive talent, rate the individual areas of his game however you want, but he’s still an elite offensive player. This can’t be denied.
 
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McAsuno

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I can’t see Hyman making about 80% of those plays.

They're both different players. Hyman's butter is his ability to grind with the puck. I don't dislike Hyman either. I'd be open to signing him, but to a long term contract? Nope. Players like him are never worth those contracts.
 

MessierII

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You said he lacked finishing, but obviously being rejuvenated on a different team that isn't a complete tirefire in Buffalo showcased more of his actual talent, did it not? No doubt he has injury concerns, but he's still a top 6 forward that would help and take pressure off our two superstars in Mcdrai. Like you said, you prefer him for 2 years which is fine. I personally have no interest in signing Hyman who's the type of player who will have injury issues based on his playstyle. Hyman long term contract is just asking for a disaster. Anyways, we'll see what happens. Just thinking of Hyman being a potential 6-7m to a 6x7 term is just gross.
Halls injury history is way more concerning than Hymans and that’s not even debatable. Hall has the most concerning injury history in this entire UFA class.
Hall has always been know to be a good passer, if you don’t want to call it elite it’s fine and I could see it. But he is most definitely in the very good category of playmaking in this League.

You could say I was using it for justification for getting Hall, but his playmaking is only one piece of my argument. Why we should get him is cause he’s an elite offensive talent, rate the individual areas of his game however you want, but he’s still an elite offensive player. This can’t be denied.
Hall at his best is an elite offensive player sure. The thing is he’s never been at that level consistently even through his prime 20’s years. With his injury history your betting on that not even just being maintained but getting better into his 30’s?

Oh and he also just so happens to be the losingest player in the league since 2010.
 

ManofSteel55

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Hall or Hyman could be our McWinger sure. I just don’t think it’d make sense to add 6M to McDavids 12.5M when he’s already producing at generational numbers without that kind of help. Secondary scoring is our biggest need. It’d make sense to have a line driver further down the line up, we know Hall can drive offence and we know he’s got familiarity with Nuge. I’m not married to the idea, but I’d like to see it tried. Teams would be in tough trying to stop 3 legit scoring lines, all 3 with Hart trophy winners driving the lines.

They could load up the top 2 lines as well. But then we’re back to where we were for the last 4 years, looking for options that can contribute offensively in the bottom 6. We didn’t find them before, hard to expect us to find them when the cap space has been allotted to the top 6.
Part of me wonders what happens if we sign Hall and they toss him back with Nuge.

??? - McDavid - Pulujarvi
Kahun?? - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Hall - Nuge - Kassian/Archibald

Of course this doesn't fix the "McDavid with bums" issue nor the "fix the top six LW" issue. Maybe we could snag Tatar as well.
 
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TheNumber4

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Halls injury history is way more concerning than Hymans and that’s not even debatable. Hall has the most concerning injury history in this entire UFA class.

Hall at his best is an elite offensive player sure. The thing is he’s never been at that level consistently even through his prime 20’s years. With his injury history your betting on that not even just being maintained but getting better into his 30’s?

Oh and he also just so happens to be the losingest player in the league since 2010.

Both players present some injury risk. Actually for UFAs in this age range you could probably say that about a lot of them. Nevertheless, both players are healthy now and have performed well recently. Predicting future injures is impossible, best to leave worries about the future injuries out of the equation or at least very low on the totem pole of things to assess when deciding to sign one or the other.

Hall has been on one tire fire after tire fire. It’s hard for any player to maintain production or high level play when your team is cratering to the bottom of the League. We as Oilers fans should know this, we’ve seen so many players look like shit on our tire fire teams only to leave to decent teams and put together very good careers. Even if he doesn’t consistly put up Hart trophy type performances (I don’t think he will anyways), the bottom end of Halls performances would be fine with a team that has McDrai already. I expect Hall to be a beast for this team but not because he’ll defy aging or anything like that, he’ll just finally be in a good situation where McDrai could take the toughest competition and leave Hall to dominate bottom 6 competition. Not many teams can offer that too Hall, so while Hall may decline in ability as he ages it’ll be possible to ramp his competition down appropriately as it happens. But any discussions about Halls decline can easily said about Hyman as well. I think it’ll be much worse for Hyman actually, not that he’s less healthy than Hall but he doesn’t have the toolbox to still be effective if say his wheels start to go. Hall on the other hand could get slower but the offensive IQ, instincts, and skill will still be there.
 
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Bryanbryoil

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This is the exact reason Hymans contract will be regrettable in 1 year. The shooting % and playing on a top line with the best players in the world will get him a massive payday. But anything over 4.5 mil X 4 years will be too much.

A good comparable for Hyman may actually be Pool Party. Both have similar solid underlying numbers, both we complimentary (but very solid) pieces on the top line as more of a puck retrieval/support player. The largest difference between JP and Hyman is the 16% shooting % Hyman rocked. I personally wouldn't go over 4.5 mil for JP, so wouldnt do so for Hyman (whom is much older to boot).

Solid player but will get overpaid by 2 mil per season, likely for the next 6 years

After the Ladd/Ericksson/Lucic/Neilsen/Okposo summer, I am shocked GMs are going back to this type of signing. Its a lazy way to try and short cut building a contender and rarely works out

It is 1 move to push us further in the now. How many of those guys were good skaters and 2 way players? Ericksson used to be a good 2 way player but I don't recall what his skating looked like with Dallas.
 

TheNumber4

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Part of me wonders what happens if we sign Hall and they toss him back with Nuge.

??? - McDavid - Pulujarvi
Kahun?? - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Hall - Nuge - Kassian/Archibald

Of course this doesn't fix the "McDavid with bums" issue nor the "fix the top six LW" issue. Maybe we could snag Tatar as well.
It does fix our “need to sign a 3C” issue and “need scoring from the bottom 6” issue though. McDavid and Draisaitl will just have to settle for trading Art Rosses between themselves like they have been lol. Those left wing spots would be perfect for using them to actually ADD value to this team. That would be the smart move cause this team serious needs some wins in the hidden gem or reclamation project dept. Maybe slot someone like Galchenyuk in one of the McDrai LW spots and watch his value rise. Or maybe use it to bump up Holloway who we have in the waiting.

I could see Nuge and Hall destroying 3rd line competition league wide. They did well enough as a first line when both players were less mature. Give them the easy comps and watch us get that fabled secondary scoring we haven’t had for ever.
 
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TheNumber4

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Or Hall banging in rebounds and outmuscling guys down low in the trenches.
Yeh but Chiasson level guys could do this to an acceptable degree. I don’t think you need to spend 6M for grinder type offense. Reserve the money for skill and the type of player that can drive offence instead of just being complentary to the offence. Let grinders come up through the system or on value contracts. That’s exactly what Toronto did, and now they’ll plug someone else in at that low cap and probably not miss a beat on their top line.
 

Bryanbryoil

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Yeh but Chiasson level guys could do this to an acceptable degree. I don’t think you need to spend 6M for grinder type offense. Reserve the money for skill and the type of player that can drive offence instead of just being complentary to the offence. Let grinders come up through the system or on value contracts. That’s exactly what Toronto did, and now they’ll plug someone else in at that low cap and probably not miss a beat on their top line.

If Hyman was such an easy player type to find, then why is he on the verge of signing a massive contract? Chiasson level players are why we haven't pissed a drop when we badly need goals.
 
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TheNumber4

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If Hyman was such an easy player type to find, then why is he on the verge of signing a massive contract? Chiasson level players are why we haven't pissed a drop when we badly need goals.
He’s being overrated around the League IMO. He looks a lot better than he is because of the situation he was in as a Leaf. It’s not the first time it’s happened and it won’t be the last. UFA signing period is filled with examples of players that are over valued come signing time, then can’t ever come close to living up the expectations of that contract. Van, Cgy, and Edm are always in a perpetual arms race as well, and sometimes to feel like your winning that arms race you may do something irrational like an overpay. I think right now those are the main players driving up Hymans massive contract.

I do agree he isn’t a super easy player type to find. But there are way more Hymans in this League than there are Halls.
 
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Cam98

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Hyman is Andrew Ladd 2.0. Do not want him. If we do sign him, he will be useless in 2 years like Lucic.
 

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