Zach Hyman

[The Shadow]

Hyman will improve with time.

He may end up being a perennial 20 goal man

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Hyman's game is not about pts. It is about getting in on forecheck and retrieving pucks. He does his job very well.

 

[RLF]

did you miss the part where Mathews produced better without Hyman this year ?

I believe skilled players like Willie/AM/JT/Marner can produce with many players because there just that skilled so people trying justify Babs love affair of unskilled grinders on scoring lines is foolish imo.

Hyman has exactly one goal that wasn't put in by the other team or with a goalie in net and still people and even then it wasn't an actual shot the hit the mesh and people are still making excuses why he has a death like grip on his spot .

I respect his hard work but i honestly don't get how people can ignore how severely limited a skill set he has which causes him to kill play after play .

and as for Marleau , do you think i give a damn if he gets moved off the line if he isn't playing well or a bad fit ?

Matthews is without Nylander as well this season. He is doing better with less talent. Another well thought out point to prove he needs better talent on both sides. Same as your point on Tavares that backfired.
As for Marleau, of course you don't because it doesn't help your cause if he stayed there and continued to not produce.
Line combos that are at the top of the League for production and a team that wins with those line combo's. He really should be fired.
The rest I won't bother with because you only pick and choose little parts from any quote ignoring facts

 

[smitty10]

2/3rds of the line is in the top 10 in scoring and the Team is first in the Conference, looks like they are "getting it done".
Fail to see the issue.

There's a player on the line that's failing to produce. That's a problem. Is it major? Clearly it's not, at least right now. The team is winning and the other two are tops in the league in scoring. We could definitely be in a worse situation, but that doesn't mean the Leafs can't continue to improve things. I believe moving Hyman off that line once Matthews and Nylander are back would do that.

 

[ACC1224]

There's a player on the line that's failing to produce. That's a problem. Is it major? Clearly it's not, at least right now. The team is winning and the other two are tops in the league in scoring. We could definitely be in a worse situation, but that doesn't mean the Leafs can't continue to improve things. I believe moving Hyman off that line once Matthews and Nylander are back would do that.

Could be, we'll most likely never know.

 

[smitty10]

It’s pretty clear that you and he are in the upper echelons of human intelligence because you’re both smarter than one of the best coaches in the NHL.

I mean, the line is suffering clearly so badly because of Hyman being on it. I have to concede that without doubt putting Marleau or Kadri on there instead of Hyman would double Tavares’ goal production.

At least double. Maybe triple.

Why are you being so condescending? We're debating hockey decisions, not arguing about anything personal.

As a fan, why can I not question decisions made by Mike Babcock? Especially when you look at the stats of the players involved and they're so far apart. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has an ego and everyone has bias. Mike Babcock isn't any different. People notice that he has a pattern of falling in love with unskilled grinders and placing them with his best players. Some people don't mind it. Some do. But there is nothing wrong with debating nor is there anything wrong with trying to improve on something, even if it's already doing well.

I believe this line can be even better and would be without Hyman. You may believe that this line is currently the best it can be. We're just discussing. Chill out.

 

[Mr Hockey]

The Leafs are top 3 best offensive producing teams in the league, you guys that complain about Hyman are really old school thinkers.

Babcock's systems/line structure allows for "a" grinder'ish player to work with 2 skilled forwards and a skilled d'man in a 5 men "structured" unit/line.

1 unit ~ grinder'ish guys in Caps/Bold

• HYMAN ~ Tavares ~Mitch
• Rielly ~ HAINSEY

another unit

• MARLEAU ~ Matthews~ Willie
• Jake ~ ZAITSEV

another unit

• Kappy ~ Kadri ~ BROWN
• Dermott ~ OZ

*lines would have been

If the game was coached like how you guys "think" it is, Hyman should be on the 3rd or 4th line. You guys are criticizing something without understanding how/why it works. So try and understand his systems and then you will understand how he sets his lines.

thought i would toss it out there and get a few of you thinking out of the box, cause you're stuck in the mud.

 

[saltming]

Why are you being so condescending? We're debating hockey decisions, not arguing about anything personal.

As a fan, why can I not question decisions made by Mike Babcock? Especially when you look at the stats of the players involved and they're so far apart. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has an ego and everyone has bias. Mike Babcock isn't any different. People notice that he has a pattern of falling in love with unskilled grinders and placing them with his best players. Some people don't mind it. Some do. But there is nothing wrong with debating nor is there anything wrong with trying to improve on something, even if it's already doing well.

I believe this line can be even better and would be without Hyman. You may believe that this line is currently the best it can be. We're just discussing. Chill out.

In my view the team stats far outweigh individual stats.
This has been the crux of this ongoing debate: Hyman supporters in general are looking at the team success, Hyman detractors want their players to get more points.

 

[RLF]

The Leafs are top 3 best offensive producing teams in the league, you guys that complain about Hyman are really old school thinkers.

Babcock's systems/line structure allows for "a" grinder'ish player to work with 2 skilled forwards and a skilled d'man in a 5 men "structured" unit/line.

1 unit ~ grinder'ish guys in Caps/Bold

• HYMAN ~ Tavares ~Mitch
• Rielly ~ HAINSEY

another unit

• MARLEAU ~ Matthews~ Willie
• Jake ~ ZAITSEV

another unit

• Kappy ~ Kadri ~ BROWN
• Dermott ~ OZ

*lines would have been

If the game was coached like how you guys "think" it is, Hyman should be on the 3rd or 4th line. You guys are criticizing something without understanding how/why it works. So try and understand his systems and then you will understand how he sets his lines.

thought i would toss it out there and get a few of you thinking out of the box, cause you're stuck in the mud.

You may be right, but some others are more concerned with their beliefs being right over if we are winning in a way that goes against what they believe. imo

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

In my view the team stats far outweigh individual stats.
This has been the crux of this ongoing debate: Hyman supporters in general are looking at the team success, Hyman detractors want their players to get more points.

Would't getting more points generally translate into greater team success?

I would just like to see an extended look at the top 6 without Hyman involved so we can see if it would be advantageous or not. Babcock refuses to even try that, so there's where everybody on my side of the fence gets cranky about Hyman (who I'm fine with even on a third line/checking role).

 

[IPS]

In my view the team stats far outweigh individual stats.
This has been the crux of this ongoing debate: Hyman supporters in general are looking at the team success, Hyman detractors want their players to get more points.

You are sincerely misguided my man.

 

[ACC1224]

In my view the team stats far outweigh individual stats.
This has been the crux of this ongoing debate: Hyman supporters in general are looking at the team success, Hyman detractors want their players to get more points.

Yeah it's very odd and the thought that 'well maybe things will be better" is pretty silly.
You have to have a reason to make a change, there is no reason to make a change.

 

[RLF]

Would't getting more points generally translate into greater team success?

I would just like to see an extended look at the top 6 without Hyman involved so we can see if it would be advantageous or not. Babcock refuses to even try that, so there's where everybody on my side of the fence gets cranky about Hyman (who I'm fine with even on a third line/checking role).

Simply put. No, it doesn't. Individual successes do not always translate to team success. Most teams don not have our ability to be able to put 3 lines of talent instead of 2. The teams that do, generally spread the talent over the top 3 lines so that they don not rely night in and night out on 1 or 2 lines working. We can have a line slump, and still have two dangerous lines.

We load the top 6 and when 1 line slumps, all the pressure is on the other 1. We are also making it hard for other teams to line match when you can role out 3 dangerous lines over 2. I get what you guys are saying, but it is not a guarantee to win more games. It is the insistence that it will that bothers those that are good with a more balanced attack that is working.

 

[Knightnight]

The Leafs are top 3 best offensive producing teams in the league, you guys that complain about Hyman are really old school thinkers.

Babcock's systems/line structure allows for "a" grinder'ish player to work with 2 skilled forwards and a skilled d'man in a 5 men "structured" unit/line.

1 unit ~ grinder'ish guys in Caps/Bold

• HYMAN ~ Tavares ~Mitch
• Rielly ~ HAINSEY

another unit

• MARLEAU ~ Matthews~ Willie
• Jake ~ ZAITSEV

another unit

• Kappy ~ Kadri ~ BROWN
• Dermott ~ OZ

*lines would have been

If the game was coached like how you guys "think" it is, Hyman should be on the 3rd or 4th line. You guys are criticizing something without understanding how/why it works. So try and understand his systems and then you will understand how he sets his lines.

thought i would toss it out there and get a few of you thinking out of the box, cause you're stuck in the mud.

Who cares you will never know if we could be even better cause he will never move that grinder to try and see if we can be better. Thats what a lot of us on the other side of this argument think. When he wins 3 cups like Chicago or 3 like Pittsburgh 2 like LA within 10 years then i will concede he was right. Till then those teams that have won and won by constantly tweaking there lines when and where required are the bench mark. Hyman has been stapled to the top line for 3 years never ever moving off it. BTW we have won f*** all to date. Lets win a round first. Two years two first round exits. Chicago won in there 3rd year of Toews and Kane, they did not ad a player of Tavares ilk that year either. This is Mikes year to win with the team he has.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Simply put. No, it doesn't. Individual successes do not always translate to team success.

So scoring MORE won't help the team? What?

 

[Knightnight]

Yeah it's very odd and the thought that 'well maybe things will be better" is pretty silly.
You have to have a reason to make a change, there is no reason to make a change.

But there was. You forget about the playoffs last year? Our top line got out played. Hyman did not get bumped. Nylander did.

 

[RLF]

Who cares you will never know if we could be even better cause he will never move that grinder to try and see if we can be better. Thats what a lot of us on the other side of this argument think. When he wins 3 cups like Chicago or 3 like Pittsburgh 2 like LA within 10 years then i will concede he was right. Till then those teams that have won and won by constantly tweaking there lines when and where required are the bench mark. Hyman has been stapled to the top line for 3 years never ever moving off it. BTW we have won **** all to date. Lets win a round first. Two years two first round exits. Chicago won in there 3rd year of Toews and Kane, they did not ad a player of Tavares ilk that year either. This is Mikes year to win with the team he has.

If comparing teams that won the cup, I think we need to look at he D cores as well when LA and Chicago won. Pitt was more experienced and actually spread out their line scoring instead of top loading. Kessel was on the 3rd line.

 

[RLF]

to intellivision.
Not what I said, top loading and scoring more on the top two lines and scoring less in the bottom 6 doesn't necessarily lead to more wins. Also loading top 6 with offensive talent may lead to more goals against on those lines. Remember how good it was with Kessel, Bozak, JVR. They scored, but were on the ice for way more against then for.

 

[saltming]

Would't getting more points generally translate into greater team success?

I would just like to see an extended look at the top 6 without Hyman involved so we can see if it would be advantageous or not. Babcock refuses to even try that, so there's where everybody on my side of the fence gets cranky about Hyman (who I'm fine with even on a third line/checking role).

More point for a player doesn't necessarily translate to team success, as Conner McDavid

 

[saltming]

You are sincerely misguided my man.

Google projection.

 

[Knightnight]

If comparing teams that won the cup, I think we need to look at he D cores as well when LA and Chicago won. Pitt was more experienced and actually spread out their line scoring instead of top loading. Kessel was on the 3rd line.

Do you even watch the games. Phil played up and down the line up constantly. Playing at times with Malkin Crosby ...
sometimes Malkin and Crosby play shifts together. This is the point. Zach Hyman NEVER comes off the top line. NEVER.

 

[saltming]

Yeah it's very odd and the thought that 'well maybe things will be better" is pretty silly.
You have to have a reason to make a change, there is no reason to make a change.

What I find even more mind boggling is that the proof is in the standing, yet some posters act as of that doesn't matter.

 

[ACC1224]

What I find even more mind boggling is that the proof is in the standing, yet some posters act as of that doesn't matter.

Team sports and the lineup dynamic aren't for everyone.

 

[saltming]

But there was. You forget about the playoffs last year? Our top line got out played. Hyman did not get bumped. Nylander did.

Hyman played well in the playoffs.

 

[saltming]

Team sports and the lineup dynamic aren't for everyone.

Maybe if Hyman was on the 4th line we would have clinched the presidents trophy already?