Steve Yzerlland
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- Jul 18, 2018
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OT: Yzerman's roster construction
- Thread starter Steve Yzerlland
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heyfolks
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- Apr 30, 2007
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I do recall the 90s Russian players. Look how they got to the USA. Hidden in cars, escaping hotels, etc. This is a new era. Russian players are in a different system, with an entirely different set of opportunities and even culture. (You aren't drafting a Sergei Fedorov in the 4th round today.)
The Russians aside, I agree on the FA signings. Holl is head scratcher, but Copp may be the worst deal. Some will say Chiarot, but he seems to be coming around a bit this season.
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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#1 issue with the roster construction for me is the goalie situation.
The depth signings people are griping about, for the most part every GM does that. I think maybe they went a little overboard with Petry AND Holl AND Chiarot. But those types of signings are largely made around the league by most GM's. I see people are conveniently leaving out Compher who has been very good and the DeBrincat trade... not surprised at that.
As far as not having more Russians? I mean you tell me which ones we should have drafted or signed or whatever. I am little surprised we haven't drafted more recently, but there also just aren't that many of them to draft. They also have a way better idea of the risk involved in doing so based on information we don't have - as far as being able to talk to the player's agent, respective KHL/VHL/MHL clubs, etc etc
The depth signings people are griping about, for the most part every GM does that. I think maybe they went a little overboard with Petry AND Holl AND Chiarot. But those types of signings are largely made around the league by most GM's. I see people are conveniently leaving out Compher who has been very good and the DeBrincat trade... not surprised at that.
As far as not having more Russians? I mean you tell me which ones we should have drafted or signed or whatever. I am little surprised we haven't drafted more recently, but there also just aren't that many of them to draft. They also have a way better idea of the risk involved in doing so based on information we don't have - as far as being able to talk to the player's agent, respective KHL/VHL/MHL clubs, etc etc
I think Chiarot has been pretty good this year, maybe even the best defenseman in the dzone, but still a bit overpaid. Don't think that contract hurts us though.
Compher deal is looking like a bargain, while the Copp deal is the opposite. Copp's contract is the only bad deal, because it is too long.
Holl's contract is what it is, and thankfully only 3 years. Doesn't hurt us. He's been ok when he has played.
My memory is still intact, and I do remember that people wanted Klingberg and Kadri in 2022. Thankfully, we didn't sign them.
I do think that we need to bring players up, one or two at a time, at this stage of the rebuild. Right now we have no rookies on the team, and that puzzles me a bit, because we have so many decent prospects. Need to make room for them. It was probably expected to have more injuries. Compared to all of last year, we've had more days with a full roster.
Not much cap space around the league right now, so trades are probably not that easy to do. Teams do accumulate cap space as the season goes on, and I think we'll see a few trades.
I am not one to lose faith in coaches quick, but I am not impressed by Lalonde. He seems to say the right things in interviews, but the team seems "uncoached" on the ice, doesn't show up on time, and it seems that Lalonde is slow to adjust the tactics when the opponent is. He doesn't pull goalies when he should either(sharks game).
Compher deal is looking like a bargain, while the Copp deal is the opposite. Copp's contract is the only bad deal, because it is too long.
Holl's contract is what it is, and thankfully only 3 years. Doesn't hurt us. He's been ok when he has played.
My memory is still intact, and I do remember that people wanted Klingberg and Kadri in 2022. Thankfully, we didn't sign them.
I do think that we need to bring players up, one or two at a time, at this stage of the rebuild. Right now we have no rookies on the team, and that puzzles me a bit, because we have so many decent prospects. Need to make room for them. It was probably expected to have more injuries. Compared to all of last year, we've had more days with a full roster.
Not much cap space around the league right now, so trades are probably not that easy to do. Teams do accumulate cap space as the season goes on, and I think we'll see a few trades.
I am not one to lose faith in coaches quick, but I am not impressed by Lalonde. He seems to say the right things in interviews, but the team seems "uncoached" on the ice, doesn't show up on time, and it seems that Lalonde is slow to adjust the tactics when the opponent is. He doesn't pull goalies when he should either(sharks game).
That's my biggest question/concern. I get the idea of not doing what Ottawa and Buffalo are doing and shielding the young guys to an extent, but there has to be a balance struck and I'm not seeing it.
Ed needs to be up, and I'd give someone like Mazur a shot.
JohanFranzenstein
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- Dec 6, 2013
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ShanahanMan
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We draft “character” and “hockey iq” over “skill” and “finesse” and it really shows. Draper just drafts guys who resemble him the most. Thats why besides Larkin, we have no home grown top talent.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
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My primary concern has nothing to do with drafting. Edvinsson, Johansson, Kasper, and Danielson all will eventually add to the roster, and several other prospects are coming along. Even if I wanted Player X instead of Player Y at a given pick, the instances of Detroit drafting a complete turd when an overwhelmingly better option was available is slim.
I want to know why there isn't more accountability with the existing players, and that's squarely on the coaching staff.
Even if you assume, for the sake of argument, that all 3 goaltenders are garbage, significant defensive problems (odd man rushes against, no net front coverage, other missed assignments) are happening several times per game in every game. And nothing is changing: the rotations continue with little variation, and otherwise it's radio silence.
Do I think Lalonde is an awful coach? No.
Do I think he deserves heat for the last month or so? Absolutely. Heavy schedule or not, he's "let the players sort it out" for too long, and should have stepped in by now.
I want to know why there isn't more accountability with the existing players, and that's squarely on the coaching staff.
Even if you assume, for the sake of argument, that all 3 goaltenders are garbage, significant defensive problems (odd man rushes against, no net front coverage, other missed assignments) are happening several times per game in every game. And nothing is changing: the rotations continue with little variation, and otherwise it's radio silence.
Do I think Lalonde is an awful coach? No.
Do I think he deserves heat for the last month or so? Absolutely. Heavy schedule or not, he's "let the players sort it out" for too long, and should have stepped in by now.
ricky0034
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- Jun 8, 2010
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the annoying thing with that one is that that's one area where I don't even think Yzerman has had a bad approach in theory
he's clearly trying to do what he did in Tampa there and draft a long term guy while trying to find some undervalued NHL guy that hasn't played a lot in the league yet but he likes what he sees of
I really don't think that's a bad strategy in principle but Goalies are just such a crapshoot, the jury is still out on Cossa and Augustine but Ned and Husso have been a lot more Anders Lindback than Ben Bishop
Detroit Knights
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- Feb 29, 2012
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True, but look at the LA Kings when they won and how they do every year. They have what 2-4 guys that have high end skill and the rest of the team is average but knows their rolls. They also had Quick and played to his strengths to minimize the weaknesses.
This is what this roster is going to round out to be and I don't hate it. The problem is the system or lack thereof. We have a few players on the roster and in GR that have the high end skill and if we surround them with guys that can insulate them, then we will have a perennial playoff contender.
Get a goalie for the next 3-5 years, continue to develop Cossa who is starting to get comfortable and will now most likely have an increased roll until Hutchinson gets sent back down, then start slowly bringing up the rookies while continuously stocking up GR and insulating the rookies in the NHL. Then you become a factory instead of a dealership.
I don't agree with keeping Ed down anymore; however, I think we would be foolish to not understand why he wasn't in the starting lineup. There is going to be plenty of room this offseason to give rookies the chance while (hopefully, not likely anymore...sadface) we have gained playoff experience to our top guys for that to rub off on rookies. I think guys like Soderblom, Mazur, Danielson, Kasper, Ed, and maybe ALJO make a case to make the team next year (obviously not all of them at once, but never know I suppose). Rasmussen is probably going to get a 1 year deal similar to veleno (maybe more money) as a last chance type situation because Soderblom could be the next Rasmussen, essentially.
For next offseason, I'd rather us not go for more depth and try to get one more guy that could make us go 3 deep scoring lines with attitude. Someone like Toffoli (I doubt he makes it to FA). Toffoli plays both sides, proves he can score on multiple teams so it really doesn't matter who he is playing with and we can have a winger group of Kane (potentially...I would resign him right now tbh), dbc, raymond, toffoli in our top 6.
dbc - larkin - kane
toffoli - compher - raymond
With the sophomore slump over for raymond, this could be disgusting. But I digress.
Yzerman is trying to build a factory. He wants long-lasting excellence and I want that. Most fans should want that. In order to do that, you need players to last a long time in the league and to pan-out. The way that can happen is high IQ players know not to put themselves into sticky situations (lidstrom) and that'll help them with their longevity and usually high iq players are great mentors like yzerman -> lidstrom -> zetterberg -> larkin -> danielson/kasper/seider?
19 for president
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Russian players today are a lot different than the Russians of Stevie's era. Almost none of them play the two way game that the Russian 5 did. With that said there are also just less Russians in todays game. I don't see any major star Russians that Stevie passed on in fear of them not coming over. Obviously he drafted Kucherov in TB and has drafted Buch here.
As for roster composition, I mostly don't mind what Stevie has done. Copp is overpaid but is a pretty good 3rd line center. Chiarot has looked a lot better this season but needs the right partner. I think that is Ed, so that is frustrating that he isn't up. Signing Holl and then trading for Petry has made for an unnecessary log jam at defense that is preventing a superior dman from making the roster. This is annoying because Ed should be with the team and this is causing a further log jam in GR where other players should be in Ed's spot.
He has not had luck getting a competent starter. I can get the unwillingness to pay for a top one though until we are closer to competing. Goalies are so up/down season to season that it can be a tricky position to fill and you don't want to get stuck with a potential anchor contract.
He will need to move some contracts out to continue improving the roster. We need at least a middle of the pack starter, need to bring up Ed, need to deal 2 of Maata, Holl, and Petry. Probably need to deal either Copp or Fabbri if we want to upgrade further at forward. We are going to run out of cap space real fast this off season.
My biggest gripe is coaching. We held onto Blash was too long and I haven't been particularly impressed by Lalonde. Both coaches have had major team start issues. We went from pretty solid structure last season to absolute shenanigans this year. Neither coach has been great at making adjustments to the team. Goaltending coaching is apparently non existent. Our PP and PK have struggled on structural things like zone entries and boxing teams out.
As for roster composition, I mostly don't mind what Stevie has done. Copp is overpaid but is a pretty good 3rd line center. Chiarot has looked a lot better this season but needs the right partner. I think that is Ed, so that is frustrating that he isn't up. Signing Holl and then trading for Petry has made for an unnecessary log jam at defense that is preventing a superior dman from making the roster. This is annoying because Ed should be with the team and this is causing a further log jam in GR where other players should be in Ed's spot.
He has not had luck getting a competent starter. I can get the unwillingness to pay for a top one though until we are closer to competing. Goalies are so up/down season to season that it can be a tricky position to fill and you don't want to get stuck with a potential anchor contract.
He will need to move some contracts out to continue improving the roster. We need at least a middle of the pack starter, need to bring up Ed, need to deal 2 of Maata, Holl, and Petry. Probably need to deal either Copp or Fabbri if we want to upgrade further at forward. We are going to run out of cap space real fast this off season.
My biggest gripe is coaching. We held onto Blash was too long and I haven't been particularly impressed by Lalonde. Both coaches have had major team start issues. We went from pretty solid structure last season to absolute shenanigans this year. Neither coach has been great at making adjustments to the team. Goaltending coaching is apparently non existent. Our PP and PK have struggled on structural things like zone entries and boxing teams out.
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
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Petry and Maatta gotta go like last month. Edvinsson needs to be up or we need an upgrade via trade. This is getting ridiculous.
The majority of us said that goaltending would be our Achilles heel this season and it's been proven right, sadly. The problem is there aren't many upgrades available via trade this season or FA next season.
We also need our wingers to help pick up the slack in the defensive zone. Offense is great this year but there's been very little puck support in our own end and it's led to us getting hemmed in our defensive zone this year. Moreso this month than october and november.
The majority of us said that goaltending would be our Achilles heel this season and it's been proven right, sadly. The problem is there aren't many upgrades available via trade this season or FA next season.
We also need our wingers to help pick up the slack in the defensive zone. Offense is great this year but there's been very little puck support in our own end and it's led to us getting hemmed in our defensive zone this year. Moreso this month than october and november.
Pavels Dog
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jkutswings
hot piss hockey
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It's a young core that needs to learn to play the right way. Wins and losses are less important than bad habits that will sink any chance of eventual playoff success.
Ok, so you have identified an issue that has transcended two different coaching staffs. Perhaps it would help to ask what hasn't changed if you are looking for a root cause of this issue.
Detroit Knights
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- Feb 29, 2012
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I do think this past 8 games showed yzerman that the team needs a shakeup. I think he gives it 3-5 more games after integrating perron back in the lineup to do something. Have no idea what that is, but it feels like something is going to happen whether that is hanifin/markstrom/tanev/lindholm or vejmelka/gibson or something just completely out of left field.
It may be a small move like maata traded for a pick to show the team that he will start trading players away for nothing. Or it could be massive where we get a markstrom/lindholm caliber player. I know we want defense and that would be my focus, but lindholm would be just fantastic. He's won the second most FO's in the league right now and he can put up points with competent players. He brings a two way presence that we need to keep.
With all that being said, my first task would be goalie. I like the taller goalies unless we can get a goalie that is like quick/fleury from 4-5 years ago. Quick and agile from side to side. But I am more of a markstrom type and would be ecstatic if we were able to get him and we would only be on the hook for another two years after this season, so it's like signing a FA for two years at 6 mil like we have been doing while getting rid of (probably) a 4 mil player in husso.
I know some of you don't like markstrom but he is an upgrade over husso so we can't really be choosers here. Any slight improvement will make us all very happy.
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
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A positionally sound goalie would be pretty cool right now. One who could be a steadying presence for this defense. If only Detroit drafted a prospect like that in say, 2021, we might be in a good place right now...
norrisnick
The best...
- Apr 14, 2005
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Ownership.
Wallstedt gave up 6 before being yanked last night.A positionally sound goalie would be pretty cool right now. One who could be a steadying presence for this defense. If only Detroit drafted a prospect like that in say, 2021, we might be in a good place right now...
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
LA had prime Kopitar and a way better defensive core. We aren’t close to that right now.
but it isn’t a young core? Larkin is 27, DBC is 26, Ray and Seider are the only newish players. There are zero rookies.
The team sucks because it’s mostly washed up vets.
Gniwder
Registered User
Sample size of one? Every goalie has a bad game. He's still on a better trajectory than Cossa.
What's funny is that Lindgren is doing better than Husso, Stevie grabbed the wrong goalie from the Blues as well. Caps will probably want to offload Kuemper, but he's not much of an upgrade.
The other issue that hasn't been mentioned is that this team is 10 ply. Kostin's out, so Chiarot and Seider are gonna be the only 2 players throwing checks this season. This team won't go anywhere even if it makes the playoffs.
Ok, what else besides ownership. I don't think that ownership is what is preventing these guys from showing up on time. We have our own plane and I am guessing that paychecks aren't bouncing.
At what point is someone a washed up vet exactly. I think we need to set some ground rules on this point.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
When they are past their prime by at least 2-3 years:
Olli Maatta, Ben Chiarot, Jeff Petry, Justin Holl, Andrew Copp. Also jsut other middling players in Ghost and Walman.
Overall, the team a lack of top end talent (especially on defense) and a reluctance to allow our top picks to showcase their talent.
Snuggs
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- Jun 24, 2018
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My only surprise with Yzerman is his unwillingness to do something with the defense.
No one has to be a hockey savant to see the struggles with the same type of defender clogging the line-up. Doesn't even have to be drastic just a call up.
No one has to be a hockey savant to see the struggles with the same type of defender clogging the line-up. Doesn't even have to be drastic just a call up.
