Yzerman's Mistakes so Far (In Your Own Eyes)

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

A couple thoughts

A) I have zero issue with the Perlini trade. It didn't work out in isolation, but the general strategy did. If you consider that we traded De La Rose, Regula, and a 4th for Fabbri, Perlini, and Erne, I think we clearly come out on top there. Regula was imo pretty clearly not tracking to be an impact NHLer, I'm not losing sleep over that one.

B) I get that some folks aren't sold on Cossa, but I'm surprised by the amount of Wallstedt love. If I could do that pick over and I couldn't take Cossa, I'd much sooner take guys like Lambos, Othmann, W. Johnson, etc. over Wallstedt personally.

C) Two things I would criticize

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1. I think that we should've snagged Ghost when Philly put him on waivers last season. He'd have improved our powerplay behind Seider and helped chip in points. Not a great defender, but who on our left side bar I guess Staal has been?​

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2. Tough to know what went on behind the scenes, but as far as on-ice impact I'd have kept Merrill around. To me, this year's blue line would have looked better with something like​

​

Ghost - Seider​

Merrill - Hronek​

Staal - Lindstrom​

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or if we still make the Leddy deal, shift Merrill to the right and scratch Lindstrom if all are healthy.​

 

[Ricelund]

I really wish Yzerman would've hung on to Troy Stecher. What a player.

 

[Run the Jewels]

We have used our top pick on a Euro player 4 years in a row.

You shouldn't expect us to draft elite players out of NA like we have with Europe until we spend a high pick on a player from NA.

It was a larger point about Hakan being great and our NA scouts being a big question mark at this point. Hakan once famously said he doesn't know how to evaluate goalies and maybe that played a role in drafting Cossa over Wallstedt. Time will tell whether that was the correct decision.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

It is going to be interesting to see Eklund and Wallstedt over Edvinsson and Cossa. I wouldn't have signed Copp and Chiarot to these deals but too early to say they are mistakes. I assume this thread will be revisited when Bertuzzi and Larkin's contracts get resolved.

 

[Ezekial]

Questionable things:
Leddy for a 2nd rounder was meh
Perlini for Regula was bad
Paying Fabbri too much given his injury history meh
Chiarot deal a little rich / too much term but who else we have lol


Everything else god tier
Drafted Seider, Raymond, Cossa, Edvinsson, Mazur, Kasper
Traded Fabri for DE LA ROSE LOL FLEECE
Nedeljkovic for a 3RD LOL FLEECE
Husso for a 3rd LOL = FLEECE
Mantha for Vrana, 1st + picks LOL FLEECE
Leddy for 2nd + Walman + Sundqvist
Cossa could end up being WAY better than Wallstedt
Signing Perron and Kubalik to team friendly deals

Overall, hes a stud.

So trading a 2nd for Leddy is meh/questionable


Even though we traded him for a 2nd, Sundqvist and Walman?
I call that a W

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Why you don't like the term? I think it's reasonable, LHD pool is not that deep. There's Edvinsson who has a very high chance to play in the NHL this season but after him, Wallinder is 2-3 years away just for competing for a spot. McIsaac looks like he's never gonna make it, Viro and Sebrango are 2-3 years away from competing for a spot, that's if they ever even make it. Buium 3-4 years away, Mathurin 4-5 years away, AlJo could be competing for a spot in next summer. Määttä, Hägg & Walman are plugs and Moore, Aucoin & Plandowski are more likely to become career AHL players.

Chiarot term goes hand to hand with LHD prospects projections imo.

Exactly this.
2023 - No RFA d-men of any consequence (Lindstrom is easily replaceable)
2024 - Johansson, Seider
2025 - Viro, Edvinsson, Sebrango, Hronek
2026 - End of Chiarot's contract. I'm expecting Wallinder to sign by the end of this season so his 3 year ELC ends here

So only one big payday in Seider, unless Edvinsson and/or Johansson blow the roof off. Chiarot is not an Abdelkader-esque anchor.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

So trading a 2nd for Leddy is meh/questionable


Even though we traded him for a 2nd, Sundqvist and Walman?
I call that a W

The 2023 2nd round will be deep. Even if the blues pick is 48 to 64 it will hold pretty good value with how deep this draft is.

 

[Gniwder]

Cossa/WALLstedt
Buium (or Leddy)/Raty
Erne
Mazur (lol, I'm kidding)

 

[norrisnick]

Why you don't like the term? I think it's reasonable, LHD pool is not that deep. There's Edvinsson who has a very high chance to play in the NHL this season but after him, Wallinder is 2-3 years away just for competing for a spot. McIsaac looks like he's never gonna make it, Viro and Sebrango are 2-3 years away from competing for a spot, that's if they ever even make it. Buium 3-4 years away, Mathurin 4-5 years away, AlJo could be competing for a spot in next summer. Määttä, Hägg & Walman are plugs and Moore, Aucoin & Plandowski are more likely to become career AHL players.

Chiarot term goes hand to hand with LHD prospects projections imo.

Pretty sure that while Wally is a left-hand shot he plays the right side.

Exactly this.
2023 - No RFA d-men of any consequence (Lidstrom is easily replaceable)
2024 - Johansson, Seider
2025 - Viro, Edvinsson, Sebrango, Hronek
2026 - End of Chiarot's contract. I'm expecting Wallinder to sign by the end of this season so his 3 year ELC ends here

So only one big payday in Seider, unless Edvinsson and/or Johansson blow the roof off. Chiarot is not an Abdelkader-esque anchor.

1. That sentence should never be written anywhere for any reason.
2. Are we really going to have the reverse problem for however long Gustav Lindstrom is a Red Wing?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Cossa/WALLstedt
Buium (or Leddy)/Raty
Erne
Mazur (lol, I'm kidding)

Dude there’s no guarantee Detroit would have gone for Raty.

 

[Henkka]

This is really fun thread.

Yzerman stock market.

His biggest mistakes are 100% investments with 99% retun.

Then his best investments are 100% stakes with 120-150% return.

Time to whine!

 

[SoupNazi]

YOU CAN CHANGE COACHES AND STILL CONTINUE TO BE IN A REBUILD ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE LOL

You can not scream, too.

 

[MBH]

It was a larger point about Hakan being great and our NA scouts being a big question mark at this point. Hakan once famously said he doesn't know how to evaluate goalies and maybe that played a role in drafting Cossa over Wallstedt. Time will tell whether that was the correct decision.

The Cossa-vs-Wallstedt thing is pretty simple.
Cossa is rawer than Wallsted. It's an upside thing. There is/was a belief that Wallstedt was closer to a finished product and Cossa had better size and athleticism and higher potential.

 

[MBH]

Dude there’s no guarantee Detroit would have gone for Raty.

No - but it would have made a ton of sense.
Guys left on my draft list @ 52
Raty
Knies

Either guy? I'd take right now over 55 games of 1-15-16 -33 Nick Leddy.

Having Raty has a prospect... would make our organization depth look pretty impressive.

 

[SantosHalper]

Pretty sure that while Wally is a left-hand shot he plays the right side.

Wallinder will play on the left side. To create a perfectly balanced defense, LHDs plays on the left side and RHDs plays on the right side. This just makes everything much more simple(passes, puck clears). Four previous cup champions have had 3 LHDs and 3 RHDs.

Joel Edmundson(L) - Alex Pietrangelo(R)
Jay Bouwmeester(L) - Colton Parayko(R)
Vince Dunn(L) - Robert Bortuzzo(R)

Victor Hedman(L) - Kevin Shattenkirk(R)
Mikhail Sergachyov(L) - Erik Cernak(R)
Ryan McDonagh(L) - Zach Bogosian(R)

Victor Hedman(L) - Jan Rutta(R)
Ryan McDonagh(L) - Erik Cernak (R)
Mikhail Sergachyov(L) - David Savard(R)

Devon Toews(L) - Cale Makar(R)
Bowen Byram(L) - Erik Johnson (R)
Jack Johnson(L) - Josh Manson(R)

 

[odin1981]

I’d say there are a good number of people were critical of Holland, but have liked what they have seen from Yzerman so far as well.

He’s not just winning over the ‘super loyal no matter what’ people, like you’re suggesting.

Count me in that most definitely. I was very, very pessimistic with the end of the Holland Era (last 3-5 years of it). But Stevie has restored my faith. Chiarot for 1-2 year's long I'd not back breaking because we have so many up and coming players on ELC's or 2nd RFA contracts. I don't like that move but it isn't terribad to our Cao structure.

I really like that Hakan is getting much better choices in early rounds of the draft now, instead of 5-7th round living on a prayers. It worked in the late 80's to early 90's because the world wasn't properly scouted back then but now I believe the steals are like 3rd or 4th rounders these days.

 

[norrisnick]

Wallinder will play on the left side. To create a perfectly balanced defense, LHDs plays on the left side and RHDs plays on the right side. This just makes everything much more simple(passes, puck clears). Four previous cup champions have had 3 LHDs and 3 RHDs.

Joel Edmundson(L) - Alex Pietrangelo(R)
Jay Bouwmeester(L) - Colton Parayko(R)
Vince Dunn(L) - Robert Bortuzzo(R)

Victor Hedman(L) - Kevin Shattenkirk(R)
Mikhail Sergachyov(L) - Erik Cernak(R)
Ryan McDonagh(L) - Zach Bogosian(R)

Victor Hedman(L) - Jan Rutta(R)
Ryan McDonagh(L) - Erik Cernak (R)
Mikhail Sergachyov(L) - David Savard(R)

Devon Toews(L) - Cale Makar(R)
Bowen Byram(L) - Erik Johnson (R)
Jack Johnson(L) - Josh Manson(R)

That's all well and good, but if Wallinder plays the right because that's the side he's most comfortable on (not sure if that is the case or if he's just the most comfortable of the lefties available on the teams he's been on) then the right side is the best place for him.

Wings won in '08 with two lefties on the right.

 

[SantosHalper]

if he's just the most comfortable of the lefties available on the teams he's been on

This is most likely the case.

Wings won in '08 with two lefties on the right

We are living in different times now.

 

[norrisnick]

We are living in different times now.

Not really. And I had a hunch so I went back a 5th season (or is that a different time too?) and low the Caps didn't have 3 and 3. Hell the Pens had 5 lefties.

Trying to enforce handedness like that is how you end up with the mess in Washington when their coach (Oates at the time I think?) had Ovechkin play on the right side for a season because he's a righty. Play the players where they are most comfortable.

 

[InjuredChoker]

chiarot

trading up in the 2021 draft

i guess not taking more cap dumps to get more assets

didn't like going for it this season but it may have been necessary to convince larkin to sign an extension.

 

[SantosHalper]

Not really. And I had a hunch so I went back a 5th season (or is that a different time too?) and low the Caps didn't have 3 and 3. Hell the Pens had 5 lefties.

Trying to enforce handedness like that is how you end up with the mess in Washington when their coach (Oates at the time I think?) had Ovechkin play on the right side for a season because he's a righty. Play the players where they are most comfortable.

Hockey is much faster now, than it was 15 years ago. St Louis, Tampa x2, Colorado and LA Kings 2012 & 2014, all of them had 3 lefties on the left side and 3 righties on the right side. Chicago 2010, 2013 and 2015 had the players to have 3 and 3 but they used LHDs on the right side. And team Canada in the Olympics as well.
Hell the Bolts went to the finals 3 years in a row and they had 3 lefties and 3 righties.

Now you are compering a winger to a defenseman, their jobs are bit different. D to D pass is much easier and more simple to make, when LHD plays on the left side and RHD plays on the right side. Same thing goes for clearing the puck when the LHD is on the right side, there is much bigger chance that he has to clear the puck using his backhand and vise versa. And now since NHL is getting faster and faster, there's no room or time for mistakes.

But of course d-men can play on the wrong side, otherwise they would never make it and it's not easy to get 3 and 3. Specially when 2 of them supposed be top-3 d-men in the league, so then naturally somebody has to play on his wrong side. And if the team has more lefties than righties or vise versa, same thing. As for Wallinder, im sure that he will play on the left side and that is where he is most comfortable.

 

[Ezekial]

The 2023 2nd round will be deep. Even if the blues pick is 48 to 64 it will hold pretty good value with how deep this draft is.

I agree and Sundqvist is an NHL player. I'll move from the top of the second to the bottom of the second for an NHL caliber player.

 

[Gniwder]

Dude there’s no guarantee Detroit would have gone for Raty.

Stevie should have. That's the mistake. He was available with the Buium pick or the one traded for Leddy, and the team needed centers. How nice would it be to have Larkin/Copp/Kasper/Raty? Raz and Veleno can be 4th line wingers at that point.

The Cossa-vs-Wallstedt thing is pretty simple.
Cossa is rawer than Wallsted. It's an upside thing. There is/was a belief that Wallstedt was closer to a finished product and Cossa had better size and athleticism and higher potential.

Some of us like the safer pick. They may both wind up being top end goalies. We'll just have to wait to see how this turns out.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So trading a 2nd for Leddy is meh/questionable


Even though we traded him for a 2nd, Sundqvist and Walman?
I call that a W

Good point. The original trade wasn't great given how Leddy played for the Wings, but what Yzerman got back when trading Leddy was a pretty nice salvage move.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

chiarot

trading up in the 2021 draft

i guess not taking more cap dumps to get more assets

didn't like going for it this season but it may have been necessary to convince larkin to sign an extension.

I don't know what the alternative was for Yzerman other than going for it. And in terms of "going for it" his moves were still fairly conservative.

Otherwise you're looking at dumping everyone not named Seider, Raymond and Larkin to get a top 3 pick, and that's still probably not enough to out-tank Arizona and Chicago and whatever unexpected team sucks next season.