Doubt you will find any ES goals that may be attributed to a line featuring Beliveau with Moore during the 1955-56 season.
After reviewing it a second time, it seems the first one what I originally saw was a trick of the eye; Beliveau and Moore are involved on a PP goal and then the next goal is an ES goal also involving Moore.
But he did get a noticeable amount of points with Provost.
It seems that you are lacking a distinction between a three forward/two defensemen and four forward/one defenseman PP formations.
Oh really?
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19870171
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19870211
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19870253
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19870345
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19870598
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19870739
Previously in this thread there were attempts by HV and Sentinel at comparing the quality of the defensemen and goaltenders from the 1955-56 season to the 1988-89 season. Since its been raised by EUZ, I'll throw in the 1992-93 season.
AST voting is a misleading factor in such considerations. Fundamental to the positions studied is not allowing goals.
AST voting is misleading in general. It won't necessarily tell you the correct positions of players (for example, in 2007-08 Henrik Zetterberg was voted to the second-team at LW while Pavel Datsyuk was third in center voting, when Datsyuk played left wing with Zetterberg at center).
1992-93 season featured a fully integrated NHL. Yet if we look at the game results featuring the Red Wings:
Partially-integrated. More integrated than 1988-89 but hardly "fully-integrated". A lot of the best players in the world were outside of the NHL (and that's true today, also).
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/hspgames.cgi
we see numerous games where one of the two teams scored six or more goals. In fact the Red Wings won, tied or lost defensive struggles that saw scores like 9-6, 10-5, 11-6, 10-7, 9-7, 8-5, 6-6. Junior B hockey.
1988-89 season featured a partially integrated NHL. Yet if we look at the game results featuring the Red Wings:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/hspgames.cgi
again numerous games where one of the two teams scored six or more goals including 6-6, 8-8, 10-5, 8-5, 8-6 games.
Little actual evidence of defensive or goaltending quality during the 1988-89 or 1992-93 seasons in Detroit. Yet the Red Wings were playoff teams both seasons.
1955-56 season Canadian based NHL. Canadiens games:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/hspgames.cgi
Canadiens, an offensive powerhouse were shutout five times, held to one goal eleven times, held to two goals thirteen times.
Conversely, the 6th place Blackhawks, gave up 6 or 7 goals 11 times during the 1955-56 season:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/hspgames.cgi
The 1988-89 Red Wings were weaker defensively than the 1955-56 Hawks, giving up 6 to 10 goals at least 15 times.
Nobody is saying "Gerard Gallant's 93 point season was better than Jean Beliveau's 88 point season!" which is the type of thing your analysis disproves. What is being said is that Yzerman, the only significantly skilled player on a bad team, faced the oppositions best attempts to shut him down every night. And that the "late-80s/early-90s" best-ever defense corps (as argued in Bourque arguments) would
always be facing Yzerman, unless their team had an even better option defensively. Let's break down each team's top defensive defenseman (as far as matching up against the opposition scorers goes) in 1955-56. HHOFers in
bold.
Team|Player
BOS|
Fern Flaman
CHI|Frank Martin
DET|Marcel Pronovost
MTL|
Tom Johnson
NYR|
Harry Howell
TOR|Jim Morrison
Now, let's perform the same check on the 1992-93 Norris division.
Team|Player
CHI|
Chris Chelios
DET|Steve Chiasson
MIN|Mark Tinordi
STL|Rick Zombo
TB|Shawn Chambers
TOR|Bob Rouse
One thing becomes clear; Toronto apparently doesn't get to have HHOF defensemen to rely on defensively. :thumbu
Ok. Aside from that, it's pretty clear that the 55-56 group of guys are more "two-way" styled guys with relation to their contemporaries, compared to the 92-93 group being made up almost entirely of (some of the best) guys who focus on defense alone. Chelios, Smith, and Chiasson are the only guys on that list to crack 40+ points twice or more. Tinordi was 40+ that year and no other. Chambers had a career-best 39 (albeit in 55 games).
So although most of those guys I just listed above aren't HHOFers, I'd bet that the better ones (guys like 1993 all-stars Chiasson, Tinordi as well as Rouse and some not listed like Konstantinov, Macoun, and of course Lidstrom) were as good or better defensively than Martin or Morrison. And if we take a quick peek into other divisions, we see these guys waiting (remember, this isn't a list of the best defenseman on the team; it's a list of best defensive defensemen.):
Adams:
Ray Bourque, Doug Bodger, Adam Burt, Eric Desjardins, Norm MacIver, Curtis Leschyshyn
Patrick:
Scott Stevens, Vladimir Malakhov, Jeff Beukeboom, Dmitry Yushkevich, Ulf Samuelsson, Sylvain Cote
Smythe: Gary Suter, Dave Manson, Charlie Huddy, Doug Wilson, Dana Murzyn, Teppo Numminen
So while it's true the defensive depth is probably weaker at the bottom end, Yzerman was facing the top guys. And his depth of competition on defense is similar or maybe a small bit behind what Beliveau faced. Now since I was prodded about using 92-93 instead of 88-89 as a comparable, let's move on to that for a second.
Centers divided by line, Norris division, 1988-89
Player|Team|Season|%1st|%2nd|Linemates
Yzerman
|DET|88-89|1.67|2.18|Gallant, MacLean
Olczyk|TOR|88-89|1.20|1.96|Leeman, Osborne
Savard
|CHI|88-89|0.94|1.05|Larmer, Graham
Gagner|MIN|88-89|1.32|1.56|
Ciccarelli
, Bellows
Zezel|STL|88-89|0.63|2.04|
Hull
, Momesso
Oates
|DET|88-89|1.32|1.90|Barr, Klima
Fergus|TOR|88-89|0.99|1.24|Damphousse, Marois
Federko
|STL|88-89|1.29|1.56|Paslawski, G.Cavallini
Broten|MIN|88-89|1.04|1.44|Habscheid, MacLellan
Murray|CHI|88-89|1.28|1.28|Thomas, Presley
Ronning|STL|88-89|1.22|1.31|Hrkac, McKegney
Top scoring centers in the NHL, 1988-89
Player|Team|Season|%1st|%2nd|Linemates
Lemieux
|PIT|88-89|1.73|3.43|Brown, Errey
Gretzky
|LA|88-89|2.63|2.71|Tonelli, Krushelnyski
Yzerman
|DET|88-89|1.67|2.18|Gallant, MacLean
Nicholls|LA|88-89|1.53|2.38|
Robitaille
, Taylor
Carson|EDM|88-89|0.98|1.28|
Kurri
, Tikkanen
Hawerchuk|WPG|88-89|1.25|2.18|McBain, Duncan
Quinn|PIT|88-89|1.92|2.19|Cullen, Bourque
Messier
|EDM|88-89|1.24|1.47|Simpson,
Anderson
Olczyk|TOR|88-89|1.20|1.96|Leeman, Osborne
The only players who have better rates than Yzerman are Lemieux, Gretzky, and Quinn. And with Quinn, he played the PP and many ES shifts with Lemieux... so that's sort of a ghost effect from Lemieux's production. Gretzky and Nicholls took turns with the Robitaille/Taylor unit, with a mish-mash of Tonelli, Krushelnyski, Allison, Carpenter, Duguay going to whoever wasn't between them.
the point is, yeah we can very safely predict that brown and quinn don't come close to their totals without mario. and ditto nicholls w/o gretzky. but if you look at robitaille's prime, he tends to score more without gretzky than with.
in fact, you could even say that when gretzky has a monster year ('89, '90, '91, '94), robitaille tops out at just over 100 points, and scores as little as 86. when gretzky isn't there yet ('88), has an off-year by his own monstrous standards ('92), and is hurt for more than half the year ('93), robitaille tops 105 each time, finishes 5th, 5th, and 9th in points, cracks the top five in goals twice (the only two of his career), and the year he wasn't top five in points cracked top ten in assists (the only time in his career). the highest robitaille ever finished in the scoring with gretzky putting up a monster year is 10th.
1987-88 21 LAK NHL 80 53 [4] 58 [13] 111 [5] (gretzky in edm)
1988-89 22 LAK NHL 78 46 [10] 52 [23] 98 [10] (gretzky finishes 2nd, scores 160)
1989-90 23 LAK NHL 80 52 [6] 49 [33] 101 [12] (gretzky wins art ross, 140)
1990-91 24 LAK NHL 76 45 [7] 46 [39] 91 [15] (gretzky wins ross, 160)
1991-92 25 LAK NHL 80 44 [7] 63 [10] 107 [5] (gretzky "slumps," finishes 3rd, 120)
1992-93 26 LAK NHL 84 63 [4] 62 [20] 125 [9] (gretzky injured, 65)
1993-94 27 LAK NHL 83 44 [12] 42 [55] 86 [24] (gretzky wins ross, 130)
[finishes in square brackets]
It's possible; Robitaille missed the 100-point mark because he was crazy ineffective (compared to normal) on the PP. He scored 74 ES points, his second-highest career total (76 in 92-93), but failed to make 100 total points. And Robitaille in 90-91 had another "bad" year on the PP. I wouldn't qualify 87-88 or 93-94 as part of Robitaille's prime.