You're the GM and Coach

[drw02]

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Weiss (maybe get his confidence up )
Helm - Franzen - Nyquist
Jurco - Sheahan - Tatar
Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader
Andersson

Kronwall - Smith
Ericsson - Dekeyser
Quincey - Ouellet
Lashoff
Kindl

Howard
Mrazek

 

[Wirtaneh]

Assuming that everyone is playing to their skills:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Mantha
Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco/Pulkkinen
Abby - Helm - Glendening

Kronwall - Smith
Ericsson - DeKeyser
Ouellet - Bäckman

Howard
Mrazek


PP1:
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Mantha
Kronwall - Smith

PP2:
Tatar - Weiss - Nyquist
Bäckman - Pulkkinen

PK1:
Sheahan - Glendening
Ericsson - DeKeyser

PK2:
Helm - Weiss
Kronwall - Ouellet


Now then, Mr GM:

As a GM I would maybe trade Jurco to get decent D-man (NHL-ready) or 2nd/3rd round pick. Maybe that d-man could be acquired from Islanders since they have some and their GM isn't the smartest guy around.

Kindl and Quincey would be gone. Even 5th/6th round picks would do... or, with some luck, even 4th round pick. Sack of potatoes are good as well.

Bäckman could be a bit of a risky choice but someones got to change things here. Pulkkinen would be awesome on PP.

 

[Xvash2]

If they were to follow your philosophy, what would the 4th line be?

I would cut Miller, Andersson, Cleary at the least. Probably Callahan and Nestrasil or Jurco centered by Glendening, but I'd rather see Nosek or Athanasiou there. Weiss remains a massive question mark however as Sheahan has really played close to the level we expect of Weiss, albeit it doing it for $4M less. I don't think Glendening has much of a future on our team is Weiss remains around for awhile. D/Z, Sheahan, Weiss, Helm is a deep middle already and I'm not sure about Helm on the wing just yet.

In a perfect world, your team should shake out something like this:

1. Scoring line A
2. Scoring line B
3. Grind/shutdown line
4. Energy/Youth line

When you bring your youth in on the 4th line, its not "wasting their time when they could be 1st line in the AHL." They get NHL competition and a chance at the big time, they get to show they can play at that level. And when you see success with limited minutes on that line, you can promote them and then trade someone from higher up to get draft picks in return. And then, you draft and develop good players, you take the best of them, play them on your fourth line, and repeat.

Here's an example of how this worked for Anaheim: They had at the start of the 2013-14 season Viktor Fasth and Jonas Hiller. in 2012-13, Fasth was outstanding as a backup for Hiller. The previous season Andersen played well in Norfolk. Now, if this had been Detroit what would have happened? Hiller would be starting goalie, Fasth would be backup, and Andersen would be getting more starts in the AHL to be a "starter." But Andersen played well in Norfolk, and well in camp, so he gets the job with Anaheim. Fasth falters a few games, Hiller is out, so Andersen gets the start. And you know what? He's great! In fact, he outplays both Fasth and Andersen. So what happens? Fasth is now expendable and Anaheim uses Fasth to acquire assets they can better use. Now they stumble a bit in asset management by letting Hiller walk to FA, but it works for this team because if Hiller re-signs, John Gibson gets to waste his time "starting games" in Norfolk.

If this were Detroit though? Fasth and Hiller would still be starting and we would never know that we had a truly better goalie wasting his time in the AHL. If you don't give your prospects tangible NHL time to adapt and prove themselves, you will never know what you really, truly have. The AHL is vastly different than the NHL and success in one never ever guarantees success in the other. Just ask Darren Haydar, Martin St. Pierre, or Alexandre Giroux.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

^ I don't think you realize that we're basically rolling out exactly what you're asking for:

The Kid line, despite us calling them the 3rd line, is essentially a youth/energy scoring line. Some games they'll get 2nd line minutes, but there's likely some games that they get 4th line minutes.

Our hopeful "4th line" consisting of some combination of Miller, Glendening, Abdelkader, and Helm is our energy, grinding line. And like happened last season, some games they'll get bigger even strength minutes.

The idea that your 3rd line is a grind/shutdown line is outdated when you have centers named Datsyuk/Zetterberg. They will be our shutdown unit and they have been doing just that for going on 10 seasons now.

 

[Mister Ed]

Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist
Helm - Datsyuk - Tatar
Weiss - Sheahan - Jurco
Abdelkader - Helm - Glendening

Extras : Miller, Andersson (waive Cleary)
Top-6 call-up : Mantha
Bottom-6 call-up : Nestrasil

Kronwall - Ericsson
Quincey - Smith
Ouellet - Dekeyser

Howard
Mrazek

I would have Gustavsson shipped somewheres and give Mrazek 25 games. Or, when/if Howard gets hurt, give him the reigns and make Gustavsson the backup, still.

And as much as I don't like Quincey, he's here to stay, so might as well let him play.

 

[detredWINgs]

Jensen is just shy 6 foot 1 I believe. That is almost as tall as Ouellet and Jensen actually weighs 196 according to wings site. 196 at 6 foot is pretty solid. With skating abilities to go with that decent profile and the fact that he has a RH shot I think he has a future here for sure. There are many dmen in the league that are smaller and effective still.

Jensen is not that tall. It's glaringly obvious on the ice that he is not even 6 feet, let alone "just shy if 6'1." The kid has the most inflated height stats since Jiri Hudler's laughable listing at 5'10.

 

[T Low]

As GM, I want to contend NOW. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OR WE'RE WAISTING P & Z'S TIME!

Weiss has 15 games to get it in gear, or I'm shopping him as a solid journeyman 2c that just needs a change of scenery. I'd really be looking at San Jose. Has Jumbo Joe gotten to be a bit of a cancer around there? They seem to want him gone. Package weiss with a solid depth center like Andy, and a D prospect for Joe.

That immediately makes us a contender.

We can keep Z & D together, which, as Babcock is already thinking, allows us to capitalize on Helms niche skill set on the 1st line.

Joe, being one of the most difficult guys to play against, opens up room for Nyquist and takes pressure off Franzen.

That allows our kid line to continue to exploit 3rd D pairings, so they'll contribute in the box score in a big way, and gain tons of nhl confidence.

That is three solid lines of production.

Miller, Glenny, Abby is as solid as any fourth line.

Zetterberg Datsyuk Helm

Franzen Jumbo Nyquist

Tatar Sheahan Jurco

Miller Glenny Abby

Then I'd go to work getting that one Dman that can get the puck out of the zone and up the ice.

Howard Mrazk 56/26

That's as good as we can hope for this year, but that team can contend.

 

[detredWINgs]

As GM, I want to contend NOW. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OR WE'RE WAISTING P & Z'S TIME!

Weiss has 15 games to get it in gear, or I'm shopping him as a solid journeyman 2c that just needs a change of scenery. I'd really be looking at San Jose. Has Jumbo Joe gotten to be a bit of a cancer around there? They seem to want him gone. Package weiss with a solid depth center like Andy, and a D prospect for Joe.

That immediately makes us a contender.

That is a horrific trade that would never, ever happen. You don't get a top 10 center for a cap-headache playing like a 4th liner, an extra forward, and a prospect, no matter how good the prospect.

 

[T Low]

That is a horrific trade that would never, ever happen. You don't get a top 10 center for a cap-headache playing like a 4th liner, an extra forward, and a prospect, no matter how good the prospect.

I know, it's like getting Kessler for frikin Bonino or something...oh wait that package did happen...

 

[joe89]

I know, it's like getting Kessler for frikin Bonino or something...oh wait that package did happen...

Would you consider Tatar to be a small piece if we moved him? Because that's about the value and quality you get out of Bonino.

 

[ricky0034]

I know, it's like getting Kessler for frikin Bonino or something...oh wait that package did happen...

Bonino put up more points than Kesler did last year

just saying

 

[T Low]

Weiss can be that guy, just needs a fresh start...Thornton is getting more toxic by the day, they need to get rid of him.

 

[TatarTangle]

I don't think Holland is in a position to make a trade, at least for a significant player like a #1C or D. You'd have to give up Nyquist + Mantha and that's not going to happen. Outside of a FA signing, and I'm not sure what the market looks like after this year, the roster you see is the roster they'll have for quite a while.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Weiss can be that guy, just needs a fresh start...Thornton is getting more toxic by the day, they need to get rid of him.

If Thornton is getting more toxic by the day, why do you want him?
If Weiss can be that guy, why do you want to trade him?

San Jose doesn't want a guy if Detroit thinks he's garbage. Plus, you're not going to get a good 1C, exceptional 2C for a 2C who has been awful and needs a fresh start.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I don't think Holland is in a position to make a trade, at least for a significant player like a #1C or D. You'd have to give up Nyquist + Mantha and that's not going to happen. Outside of a FA signing, and I'm not sure what the market looks like after this year, the roster you see is the roster they'll have for quite a while.

to be fair, I dont recall the last time ever anyteam gave up the exact equivalent of a nyquist plus mantha

thronton trade=nope
healtey trade=nope
hossa trade= nope
heatley trade=nope
kesler trade=nope
st louis trade= nope
jaybo trade=nope
kessel trade=nope
sharp trade=nope
richards trade=nope
ryan trade=nope

 

[TatarTangle]

to be fair, I dont recall the last time ever anyteam gave up the exact equivalent of a nyquist plus mantha

thronton trade=nope
healtey trade=nope
hossa trade= nope
heatley trade=nope
kesler trade=nope
st louis trade= nope
jaybo trade=nope
kessel trade=nope
sharp trade=nope
richards trade=nope
ryan trade=nope

This board tends to overvalue players and prospects

Put it this way, both Nyquist and Mantha probably have the trade value of a 1st. If you want a #1C or D, which is what the Red Wings need, you're going to have to give up that and then some.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Assuming everyone is healthy, I would go with this.

Weiss-D-Mantha
Mule-Z-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller/Glendening-Helm-Abby

Kronwall-Smith
DD-Quincey
XO-Big E

Howard
Monster


or


Z-D-Mantha
Mule-Weiss-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller/Glendening-Helm-Abby

Not sure what I like better but it would be between those 2

 

[DatsDeking]

As GM, I want to contend NOW. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OR WE'RE WAISTING P & Z'S TIME!

Weiss has 15 games to get it in gear, or I'm shopping him as a solid journeyman 2c that just needs a change of scenery. I'd really be looking at San Jose. Has Jumbo Joe gotten to be a bit of a cancer around there? They seem to want him gone. Package weiss with a solid depth center like Andy, and a D prospect for Joe.

That immediately makes us a contender.

We can keep Z & D together, which, as Babcock is already thinking, allows us to capitalize on Helms niche skill set on the 1st line.

Joe, being one of the most difficult guys to play against, opens up room for Nyquist and takes pressure off Franzen.

That allows our kid line to continue to exploit 3rd D pairings, so they'll contribute in the box score in a big way, and gain tons of nhl confidence.

That is three solid lines of production.

Miller, Glenny, Abby is as solid as any fourth line.

Zetterberg Datsyuk Helm

Franzen Jumbo Nyquist

Tatar Sheahan Jurco

Miller Glenny Abby

Then I'd go to work getting that one Dman that can get the puck out of the zone and up the ice.

Howard Mrazk 56/26

That's as good as we can hope for this year, but that team can contend.

That team sounds pretty awesome

Would never happen though

 

[T Low]

"General manager Doug Wilson has stated he intends to turn the team over to its younger players and that they may need to take one step back in order to take two steps forward after their latest postseason elimination at the hands of the Kings. Naturally, that's created speculation about star veteran forwards Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau who are both perceived to be available via trade months after signing three-year contract extensions to stay in San Jose".

" The biggest roadblock to all of this, as CBC's Elliotte Friedman noted in a recent column, is Thornton's full no-movement clause (which doesn't appear to have a loophole but perhaps there's a twist ending to this story yet). He's unlikely to waive it to go to a team where he'd not only have little to no chance of contending for a Cup but face an unparalleled level of media scrutiny. Thornton wants to win and if he's going to be denied the chance to do so in San Jose, Friedman suggested he's likely to only agree to be moved to a definitive contender like Chicago or Los Angeles. Those teams aren't going to give up packages equivalent in value to Kadri and Gardiner. Regardless of how this all shakes out, get ready for a long summer of Joe Thornton trade rumors until the Sharks deal him or conclude they can't."



Weiss isn't garbage. He's quite capable of putting up production numbers and making up for a fairly significant amount of Thorntons production along side Hertl on the 2nd line. **** knows why it's not happening under Babcock, but it's not so let's deal our former Florida Captain , Panther franchise centerman, along with a more than serviceable 3 c, and some sort of agreed upon prospect pkge, for thiers. BOTH NEED A FRESH START.

The OP asks what I'd do if I were GM, I'd get that done.

 

[T Low]

That team sounds pretty awesome

Would never happen though

Thank you.

And, sadly, you're probably right.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

"General manager Doug Wilson has stated he intends to turn the team over to its younger players and that they may need to take one step back in order to take two steps forward after their latest postseason elimination at the hands of the Kings. Naturally, that's created speculation about star veteran forwards Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau who are both perceived to be available via trade months after signing three-year contract extensions to stay in San Jose".

" The biggest roadblock to all of this, as CBC's Elliotte Friedman noted in a recent column, is Thornton's full no-movement clause (which doesn't appear to have a loophole but perhaps there's a twist ending to this story yet). He's unlikely to waive it to go to a team where he'd not only have little to no chance of contending for a Cup but face an unparalleled level of media scrutiny. Thornton wants to win and if he's going to be denied the chance to do so in San Jose, Friedman suggested he's likely to only agree to be moved to a definitive contender like Chicago or Los Angeles. Those teams aren't going to give up packages equivalent in value to Kadri and Gardiner. Regardless of how this all shakes out, get ready for a long summer of Joe Thornton trade rumors until the Sharks deal him or conclude they can't."



Weiss isn't garbage. He's quite capable of putting up production numbers and making up for a fairly significant amount of Thorntons production along side Hertl on the 2nd line. **** knows why it's not happening under Babcock, but it's not so let's deal our former Florida Captain , Panther franchise centerman, along with a more than serviceable 3 c, and some sort of agreed upon prospect pkge, for thiers. BOTH NEED A FRESH START.

The OP asks what I'd do if I were GM, I'd get that done.

I like your enthusiasm but Weiss is a cap dump at this point, and here's why:

1. He's had 2 years of no production because of injuries.
2. He carries a long contract with a good dollar amount.

As for SJ, if they are trying to re-tool by trading Thornton, then why take on a gamble like Weiss in return for your biggest trading chip?

At the very least they'd ask for Tatar, another good piece(helm/d prospect) and a 1st.

If Weiss is going to produce, he'll have to do it in Detroit.

 

[detredWINgs]

I know, it's like getting Kessler for frikin Bonino or something...oh wait that package did happen...

What a terrible comparison.

Kesler is nowhere near as good as Thornton. Weiss has been nowhere near as good (or healthy, or young, or cheap) as Bonino in the past 2 years. Vancouver also got the 20th overall out of it.

Also, as someone else pointed out, Bonino out-produced Kesler last year. Kesler has a whopping 2 seasons of great production (which would be comparable to Thornton's worst offensive seasons) and the rest have been average or marred by injury. But keep living in this fantasy world you've created for yourself. Maybe you could suggest to Toronto that they could ship off Clarkson, a depth player like Smithson, and a D prospect for Marleau.

A more comparable deal would be getting Thornton and a 3rd for Tatar, a 1st, a 3rd, and Kindl.

 

[PullHard]

Oh man, the season needs to start really soon

 

[detredWINgs]

to be fair, I dont recall the last time ever anyteam gave up the exact equivalent of a nyquist plus mantha

thronton trade=nope
healtey trade=nope
hossa trade= nope
heatley trade=nope
kesler trade=nope
st louis trade= nope
jaybo trade=nope
kessel trade=nope
sharp trade=nope
richards trade=nope
ryan trade=nope

Sharp trade? As in Patrick Sharp? As in the guy who everyone in the hockey world thought of as a grinding supplementary scorer who, in favorable circumstances, might have the career of a guy like Shawn Bates? Interesting addition.

Anyways, the difference for most of these trades is that there was some measure of external influence that precipitated the move: trade demands (St. Louis), NTCs that limited a GMs options (Kesler), impending free agency departures (JBo), salary issues (Kessel), etc.

I agree that few trades of "star" players return what is expected but that has everything to do with external factors, which are almost always inherent in trading away big stars. I mean, if there weren't competing factors, why on earth would you move a star player? That's the big difference in a scenario that involves San Jose - they have zero reason to move Thornton unless the package coming back is all but guaranteed to make an impact on their Cup aspirations. They aren't poor. They aren't going to miss the playoffs. Thornton isn't demanding a move. He isn't on the last year of his deal. He's still highly productive.

 

[T Low]

What a terrible comparison.

Kesler is nowhere near as good as Thornton. Weiss has been nowhere near as good (or healthy, or young, or cheap) as Bonino in the past 2 years. Vancouver also got the 20th overall out of it.

Also, as someone else pointed out, Bonino out-produced Kesler last year. Kesler has a whopping 2 seasons of great production (which would be comparable to Thornton's worst offensive seasons) and the rest have been average or marred by injury. But keep living in this fantasy world you've created for yourself. Maybe you could suggest to Toronto that they could ship off Clarkson, a depth player like Smithson, and a D prospect for Marleau.

A more comparable deal would be getting Thornton and a 3rd for Tatar, a 1st, a 3rd, and Kindl.

Awwwh, man, I hate to be the one who has to point this out to you, but, see, Al Gore and the OP created this fantasy world we're in, not me. I'm just playing along...


Vatican Roulette, thanks for the respectful disagreement.