Your overall rating of Chia on a scale of 1-10

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

ok they won 14 and lost 12 with hall. less than impressive. and were pretty much ~500 team with hall ebs and schultz. my point WAS these guys weren't really winners. heck hall was like an even plus minus down there. honestly my initial point wasn't to solely pinpoint hall, it was to point out that this old core was nowhere near as good or capable as some people were spouting. basically almost an equal number of wins and losses while in the AHL together. and like you said the team basically finished with about the same pace as they were on without hall ebs and schultz. shouldn't these three core guys have made a significant difference if they were so great?

they were good at putting up individual numbers but as far as pushing the needle forward towards becoming a winning team? not so much. which is why the loss of all three of them is negligible to th future success of this team.

wrong. rnh was not on the team.

lol, my bad, but this proves my point further.... an AHL team with hall, ebs, nuge and schultz didn't really make the team any better. that should tell you something about having faith in the old core to figure it out eventually. wasn't going to happen. chia made good moves ousting hall and ebs.

did you not read what i just wrote. i was initially arguing that this old core with hall ebs nuge schultz was nowhere near going to turn it around. it's supported by the fact that the AHL team was really no better with four of them there. people were arguing chia should have just done nothing and ride all the "talent" we have now to a stanley cup.

getting rid of a guy like hall does help team chemistry and buy in etc. so yes, minusing a player like him will help your team overall and in the future.

hey i guess we'll see in 2 or three year how things will unfold. right now it's basically a stalemate.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I would agree about the mentally strong thing. Incredibly disappointed in Lucic. Never would have imagined he would give up like he did.

Disagree about talent.

Forwards with above average nhl "skill level": McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nuge way above. Lucic outside of last year typically is easily. Thats 4 of our top 6. Both Puliarvi and Yamamoto are chaulked full of top 6 talent based on thier pre nhl stats.

For bottom 6 guys Kassian, Strome, Kharia, Broziack, and Reider are all solid.

Larsson and Sekera when healthy are legit top 3 defenders. Very talented. Klefbom was for one year. Nurse is projecting as one...

Talbot was Vezna level for 80+ games in 2016.

Thats far more talent than your suggesting and honestly at least league average and at least a playoff team on paper.

With all due respect we tend to overrate our talent.

We have 3 forwards in this org with bonafide NHL worthy talent at this time. Lucic doesn't much qualify and I do believe he's mostly on the downswing. We've seen his best, at best he's a complimentary player with others making the plays. But at this point he's too much of a liability to give regular diet of topsix, and its a given he'll suck at bottomsix.

Pulju Yamo unknowns, still, at this level. Its conceivable they don't produce at this level.

The reality is we have 3 topsix players in the org. We have Rieder who will be somewhat useful for Drasaitl.

"When Sekera is healthy" haha, also Klef. Sometimes its more likely to expect these not being 100%.

Larsson will be different this season I think. Both good and bad, that will be something for another time.

This is a lineup devoid of quality depth. With no cap space to acquire some.

 

[Soundwave]

I think the team is good enough to win witgout mcdavid.

Yamo or marody need a cup of coffee anyways.

They are pretty deep imo.

Their win percentage in games where McDavid didn't score last year was horrendous, as in like close to the record the 74-75 expansion Washington Capitals had (worst team in NHL history).

So no, they're not very deep right now, they are the exact opposite of that.

Tampa, Toronto, Pittsburgh, Winnipeg ... those are deep teams with lots of fire power upfront.

Oilers are 1 line and then hope & pray you get something from the other 3 lines.

Once Yamamoto, Puljujarvi develop into guys that can legit make NHL defenders worry and be the difference between winning and losing, sure you revisit that, but right now, they are a one line show.

Whatever line McDavid is on + 3 other lines that get dragged along.

The other thing is there is a stunning lack of chemistry with this forward group. Other than McDavid + RNH or Draisaitl there's not really a bunch of combinations that you go "Wow! Those 2/3 players really click with each other!". Lucic plays well with none of the three centers, Strome is a player who shows up every third game, Caggiula clicks with no one, RNH or Drai with McDavid work, but RNH + Drai together doesn't seem to work great, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Aerchon]

Draisaitl getting really sold short here. He won a couple games last year all by himself.

He needs to be a bit more consistent but he is growing nicely into a Kopitar level forward.

Lucic getting sold extremely short as well. While he certainly has always had great line mates he absolutely is capable of driving a line as well. Obviously rarely to none last year, few and far between the year before but in his contract year he was a beast. Most of his long durable career he has beast mode stretches. Who knows if we ever get to see that again but historically speaking Lucic is a great top 6 forward.

Oilers have McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH... Who does Pittsburgh have of elite talent outside Crosby, Malkin, and Philip? Letang & Hornquist?

Yes those 5 are better but Hornquist isn't exactly more talented than Lucic per say.

Toronto has one year before thier cap hell and I will be shocked if they win some cup with thier defense.

 

[Soundwave]

Draisaitl getting really sold short here. He won a couple games last year all by himself.

He needs to be a bit more consistent but he is growing nicely into a Kopitar level forward.

Lucic getting sold extremely short as well. While he certainly has always had great line mates he absolutely is capable of driving a line as well. Obviously rarely to none last year, few and far between the year before but in his contract year he was a beast. Most of his long durable career he has beast mode stretches. Who knows if we ever get to see that again but historically speaking Lucic is a great top 6 forward.

Oilers have McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH... Who does Pittsburgh have of elite talent outside Crosby, Malkin, and Philip? Letang & Hornquist?

Yes those 5 are better but Hornquist isn't exactly more talented than Lucic per say.

Toronto has one year before thier cap hell and I will be shocked if they win some cup with thier defense.

I like Leon and stuck up for him a lot last year.

That said, I think while he is a good player, I'm not sure he is a dominant player with just scrub or make shift wingers.

The centers who can do that are very rare, like Malkin. Don't think Leon is there, at the very least not yet.

That's why trading Hall and blowing the chance to land one of Barzal/Connor/Boeser were huge franchise altering moves it forced us into being a one line team when Eberle predictably collapsed.

The only thing Lucic is driving is himself to the rink. He's not getting sold short, that might be the worst 30 game stretch I've ever seen from a top six Oiler player.

 

[Aerchon]

I like Leon and stuck up for him a lot last year.

That said, I think while he is a good player, I'm not sure he is a dominant player with just scrub or make shift wingers.

The centers who can do that are very rare, like Malkin. Don't think Leon is there, at the very least not yet.

That's why trading Hall and blowing the chance to land one of Barzal/Connor/Boeser were huge franchise altering moves it forced us into being a one line team when Eberle predictably collapsed.

The only thing Lucic is driving is himself to the rink. He's not getting sold short, that might be the worst 30 game stretch I've ever seen from a top six Oiler player.

Leon has already proven he can lug Lucic and Slepy on his back in the playoffs. Definitely think your selling him short.

Huge Hall fan. Favorite Oiler during his time here. If we had Hall we wouldn't have gotten Larsson and we wouldn't have made the playoffs last year or this year most likely hypothetically speaking. We have seen Hall at his best ON THE OILERS and simply put he never even remotely made a dent in actually getting into the playoffs. Not even close. Great that he did it for NJ but even with him and McDavid the team sucked. Pure fantasy dreaming something might have happened when it didn't and historically speaking is incredibly unlikely. Delusional even. Chemistry wasn't there or whatever I'm confident Hall + Oilers = losing badly even as amazing as he is.

Barzal, Conner, Boeser is just another fantasy. You really like to torture yourself with hypothetical situations.

While I don't torture myself like you do I can say the Reinhart fiasco was Pejorative Slured. I thought Reinhart at least might cover the spread eventually but right from the bat that disgusted me.

 

[Soundwave]

Leon has already proven he can lug Lucic and Slepy on his back in the playoffs. Definitely think your selling him short.

Huge Hall fan. Favorite Oiler during his time here. If we had Hall we wouldn't have gotten Larsson and we wouldn't have made the playoffs last year or this year most likely hypothetically speaking. We have seen Hall at his best ON THE OILERS and simply put he never even remotely made a dent in actually getting into the playoffs. Not even close. Great that he did it for NJ but even with him and McDavid the team sucked. Pure fantasy dreaming something might have happened when it didn't and historically speaking is incredibly unlikely. Delusional even. Chemistry wasn't there or whatever I'm confident Hall + Oilers = losing badly even as amazing as he is.

Barzal, Conner, Boeser is just another fantasy. You really like to torture yourself with hypothetical situations.

While I don't torture myself like you do I can say the Reinhart fiasco was ******ed. I thought Reinhart at least might cover the spread eventually but right from the bat that disgusted me.

He hasn't shown he can do it for a season, getting hot on a line for a couple of games doesn't make him Malkin.

And I am one of his biggest fans.

You can't always get away with putting crap next to talent. McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, and a handful of other players can drive a line with middling level talent, but they are rare in this league.

We were certainly a 1-line show last year, anyone trying to say otherwise is simply lying. We don't as of today have two lines that scare any NHL team, McDavid's line is the only one you really have to worry about if you're playing Edmonton.

Until that changes, this team is gonna be a bubble team at best.

 

[Aerchon]

He hasn't shown he can do it for a season, getting hot on a line for a couple of games doesn't make him Malkin.

And I am one of his biggest fans.

You can't always get away with putting crap next to talent. McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, and a handful of other players can drive a line with middling level talent, but they are rare in this league.

We were certainly a 1-line show last year, anyone trying to say otherwise is simply lying. We don't as of today have two lines that scare any NHL team, McDavid's line is the only one you really have to worry about if you're playing Edmonton.

Until that changes, this team is gonna be a bubble team at best.

I'm generally more of a top 6 bottom 6 guy now. For years the Oilers spread themselves thiner trying to have three skilled lines. Liked the idea hated the execution.

However with McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge, Strome, and Brodziach I really want the Oilers to split the big three to each thier own line.

McDavid with 2 scrubs is just the way it should be and should work.

Maybe put Draisaitl and Nuge together if Lucic can't pull it together. But otherwise split them up so each three lines have an elite centers.

Nuge and Draisaitl can drive thier own line. Just need some damn chemistry.

Maybe:

Kharia McDavid Rattie
Rieder Draisaitl Strome
Lucic RNH Puliarvi
Caguillia Brodziach Kassian

However McLellan is bad at match ups and doesn't like 3 scoring lines so that's unlikely to happen. Today's NHL I think 3 scoring lines is better.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm generally more of a top 6 bottom 6 guy now. For years the Oilers spread themselves thiner trying to have three skilled lines. Liked the idea hated the execution.

However with McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge, Strome, and Brodziach I really want the Oilers to split the big three to each thier own line.

McDavid with 2 scrubs is just the way it should be and should work.

Maybe put Draisaitl and Nuge together if Lucic can't pull it together. But otherwise split them up so each three lines have an elite centers.

Nuge and Draisaitl can drive thier own line. Just need some damn chemistry.

Maybe:

Kharia McDavid Rattie
Rieder Draisaitl Strome
Lucic RNH Puliarvi
Caguillia Brodziach Kassian

However McLellan is bad at match ups and doesn't like 3 scoring lines so that's unlikely to happen. Today's NHL I think 3 scoring lines is better.

This doesn't really work either for us. McDavid can still produce, but he definitely produces better with one of RNH or Draisaitl on his line.

Draisaitl + RNH didn't really seem to gel that well, so that's not really an option.

So you're doing the three centers thing, but again, you run into an issue of 2/3 lines really not scaring a lot of teams.

The Oilers need 2 reliable scoring lines before they start thinking about 3.

The "3 scoring lines" is the biggest myth in Oiler fandom, it's something we've been saying since 2007 "oh boy! We have three scoring lines!". Reality = only 1 scoring line.

RNH + McDavid and Hall + Draisaitl ... now THAT would've been an explosive top six that could rival any top six in the league.

That last time this team had 2 legit scoring lines for an extended period of time was probably the tail end of the 2008 season where they shocked everyone and almost made the playoffs with the Kid Line (Gagner/Cogs/Nilsson) and the Glencross line both going supernova and racking up points. This is something the Oilers have struggled with now for like a decade ... no matter how they put it on paper, in actual practise on the ice, they almost always really just have one scoring line + 3 "maybe they'll show up" lines.

Now that they have secured Bouchard, the next no.1 priority for this team long term has to be finding a high end scoring winger for Draisaitl. And with no cap room, that player probably has to come from the draft.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

This doesn't really work either for us. McDavid can still produce, but he definitely produces better with one of RNH or Draisaitl on his line.

Draisaitl + RNH didn't really seem to gel that well, so that's not really an option.

So you're doing the three centers thing, but again, you run into an issue of 2/3 lines really not scaring a lot of teams.

The Oilers need 2 reliable scoring lines before they start thinking about 3.

The "3 scoring lines" is the biggest myth in Oiler fandom, it's something we've been saying since 2007 "oh boy! We have three scoring lines!". Reality = only 1 scoring line.

RNH + McDavid and Hall + Draisaitl ... now THAT would've been an explosive top six that could rival any top six in the league.

That last time this team had 2 legit scoring lines for an extended period of time was probably the tail end of the 2008 season where they shocked everyone and almost made the playoffs with the Kid Line (Gagner/Cogs/Nilsson) and the Glencross line both going supernova and racking up points. This is something the Oilers have struggled with now for like a decade ... no matter how they put it on paper, in actual practise on the ice, they almost always really just have one scoring line + 3 "maybe they'll show up" lines.

Now that they have secured Bouchard, the next no.1 priority for this team long term has to be finding a high end scoring winger for Draisaitl. And with no cap room, that player probably has to come from the draft.

Because they dont have room unless you trade futures for scrap heap wingers.

They dont have cap room. They need youth to work. Which has always been the case and is now more than ever.

Which you confuse with being thin.

They arnt thin. They are constrained by the market and by a valid goal of developing their own players.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think the team is good enough to win witgout mcdavid.

Yamo or marody need a cup of coffee anyways.

They are pretty deep imo.

They weren't good enough to win WITH McDavid last year. They weren't even close.

"Need a cup of coffee", why do they need a cup of coffee? Yamo had a cup of coffee last year and quickly proved he wasn't NHL ready yet. They're not deep at all, especially not on the wing.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

They weren't good enough to win WITH McDavid last year. They weren't even close.

"Need a cup of coffee", why do they need a cup of coffee? Yamo had a cup of coffee last year and quickly proved he wasn't NHL ready yet. They're not deep at all, especially not on the wing.

Oh I was confused sorry. I thought I was in vegas.

 

[Little Fury]

I'm generally more of a top 6 bottom 6 guy now. For years the Oilers spread themselves thiner trying to have three skilled lines. Liked the idea hated the execution.

However with McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge, Strome, and Brodziach I really want the Oilers to split the big three to each thier own line.

McDavid with 2 scrubs is just the way it should be and should work.

Maybe put Draisaitl and Nuge together if Lucic can't pull it together. But otherwise split them up so each three lines have an elite centers.

Nuge and Draisaitl can drive thier own line. Just need some damn chemistry.

I like Nuge but he's not an elite C. And Drai doesn't seem like a player who can carry a line for the bulk of a season.

Guys who can actually do what McDavid does and tilt the ice are pretty rare and usually only found at the top of the draft which is why trading them for non-impact players is a bad idea.

 

[Soundwave]

Because they dont have room unless you trade futures for scrap heap wingers.

They dont have cap room. They need youth to work. Which has always been the case and is now more than ever.

Which you confuse with being thin.

They arnt thin. They are constrained by the market and by a valid goal of developing their own players.

What you've described is basically the definition of thin, lol.

If the season started tomorrow, no one can seriously have huge confidence that if McDavid's line wasn't going that the Oilers would have any chance of winning.

Their record when McDavid did not register a point was horrendous.

They are the text book definition of a one-line team.

 

[Little Fury]

What you've described is basically the definition of thin, lol.

"They aren't thin, they just don't have any good players yet!" was an interesting argument for sure.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

What you've described is basically the definition of thin, lol.

If the season started tomorrow, no one can seriously have huge confidence that if McDavid's line wasn't going that the Oilers would have any chance of winning.

Their record when McDavid did not register a point was horrendous.

They are the text book definition of a one-line team.

blech.

If last year was what they are then I think you just have to sit back and laugh your ass off.

 

[Soundwave]

blech.

If last year was what they are then I think you just have to sit back and laugh your ass off.

They didn't really have reliable secondary scoring even in 16-17 ... we waited alllll year being told "OK, RNH-Eberle-Pouliot will kick in any minute now ... any minute ... aaaaaaany minute now ... wait for it ... waaaaait ... ok playoffs, definitely they will show up for playoffs ... any minute now .... annnnny minute ... Jordan? Hello? Paging Jordan Eberle ...".

Team really honestly has not had two legit scoring lines in probably a decade.

Last time we had two lines just wrecking it was the tail end of the 2008 where we almost stunned everyone by just barely missing the playoffs. That team was carried by scoring from the Gagner and Glencross lines.

Ever since then, getting two lines scoring for an extended period of time at the same time has been a massive headache for this team. They have a few rare pockets here and there where a second line will chip in, but consistently it basically never happens.

Maybe Tobias Reider, and a very raw Yamamoto or Pulju can change that, but I think that's a stretch if you're going to be brutally honest.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

They didn't really have reliable secondary scoring even in 16-17 ... we waited alllll year being told "OK, RNH-Eberle-Pouliot will kick in any minute now ... any minute ... aaaaaaany minute now ... wait for it ... waaaaait ... ok playoffs, definitely they will show up for playoffs ... any minute now .... annnnny minute ... Jordan? Hello? Paging Jordan Eberle ...".

Team really honestly has not had two legit scoring lines in probably a decade.

Last time we had two lines just wrecking it was the tail end of the 2008 where we almost stunned everyone by just barely missing the playoffs. That team was carried by scoring from the Gagner and Glencross lines.

Ever since then, getting two lines scoring for an extended period of time at the same time has been a massive headache for this team. They have a few rare pockets here and there where a second line will chip in, but consistently it basically never happens.

Maybe Tobias Reider, and a very raw Yamamoto or Pulju can change that, but I think that's a stretch if you're going to be brutally honest.

But you dont think adding caggiula, jp, yammer are cheap replacement options? I mean thats how the league works.

 

[Soundwave]

But you dont think adding caggiula, jp, yammer are cheap replacement options? I mean thats how the league works.

I just don't think you can rely on those players right now. When push comes to shove and it's a tough game and Connor is having some problems or has an off night ... I just don't see enough fire power on this team upfront, it's a lot of "maybes" and "probably not ready yet".

Pittsburgh, Toronto, Tampa, Winnipeg are what I'd call deep offensive teams. Oilers are not in that group right now. Hopefully that changes in 2-3 years.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I just don't think you can rely on those players right now. When push comes to shove and it's a tough game and Connor is having some problems or has an off night ... I just don't see enough fire power on this team upfront, it's a lot of "maybes" and "probably not ready yet".

Pittsburgh, Toronto, Tampa, Winnipeg are what I'd call deep offensive teams. Oilers are not in that group right now. Hopefully that changes in 2-3 years.

And they did basically what edmonton is doing.

 

[Soundwave]

And they did basically what edmonton is doing.

With better management. That makes a fair difference. It takes longer to get somewhere when your driver is blind.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

With better management. That makes a fair difference. It takes longer to get somewhere when your driver is blind.

Chia gets another 5 years then? Cuz tampa d4afted stammer a decade ago.

Poile blew a decade of suter-weber and is just getting good too.

I could care less about chia but his plan to beat up the pacific actually worked. He has to adjust now.

 

[Slats432]

There are 12 people that rated Chia a 10.

 

[Soundwave]

Chia gets another 5 years then? Cuz tampa d4afted stammer a decade ago.

Poile blew a decade of suter-weber and is just getting good too.

I could care less about chia but his plan to beat up the pacific actually worked. He has to adjust now.

Chia will hopefully be gone after next season, then the Oilers can hopefully find someone that can put them onto a fast track and begin the real task of building a legit contender around McDavid.

Toronto started in no better of a position than Edmonton was in 3 years ago, but they've already overtaken us, had we hired someone smarter, we'd probably be in the same or better position as they are in.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Chia will hopefully be gone after next season, then the Oilers can hopefully find someone that can put them onto a fast track and begin the real task of building a legit contender around McDavid.

Toronto started in no better of a position than Edmonton was in 3 years ago, but they've already overtaken us, had we hired someone smarter, we'd probably be in the same or better position as they are in.

Their goalie had a good year and their divij went south. Theyre having success but its not the same challenge.