Value of: Your best offer for 2 of the 3: Tierney, LaBanc, Boedker

[Dr Quincy]

I think Huberdeau would be a good starter.
Or Borgstrom would be ideal, because if we're trading a Dman, we need to clear some cap to try to sign Carlsson.

I think you are valuing these guys a lot more than their actual worth.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

I think you are valuing these guys a lot more than their actual worth.

Possibly, but 40 point 23 YO 3cs don't grow on trees and neither do top 4 D men. Those are the two FLA players I'd be interested in that are in the same ballpark of value to me.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Possibly, but 40 point 23 YO 3cs don't grow on trees and neither do top 4 D men. Those are the two FLA players I'd be interested in that are in the same ballpark of value to me.

You are putting way too much stock in an arbitrary thing like "4o pts 23 year old". If he had one less point and was a 39pt 23 year old how much less is his value? Is Labanc's stats more impressive than a younger F like Denis Malgin who put up the same number of goals (11) in 22 less games?

Since points seem very important to you, Huberdeau had 69 last year. 69 point wingers don't grow on trees and are certainly far rarer than 1 dimensional 11 goal scorers.

Would you give up Hertl for Matheson + Malgin? (Of course we know Hertl can't be that good because he's only a 46 point player).

And your ballpark is way off.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Possibly, but 40 point 23 YO 3cs don't grow on trees and neither do top 4 D men. Those are the two FLA players I'd be interested in that are in the same ballpark of value to me.

I think gaining assets that could be used to target other players in trade would work too.

Something like:


Braun
Tierney


2018 1st
Owen Tippet

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think gaining assets that could be used to target other players in trade would work too.

Something like:


Braun
Tierney


2018 1st
Owen Tippet

No thanks. Not interested in that in the slightest.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

You are putting way too much stock in an arbitrary thing like "4o pts 23 year old". If he had one less point and was a 39pt 23 year old how much less is his value? Is Labanc's stats more impressive than a younger F like Denis Malgin who put up the same number of goals (11) in 22 less games?

Since points seem very important to you, Huberdeau had 69 last year. 69 point wingers don't grow on trees and are certainly far rarer than 1 dimensional 11 goal scorers.

Would you give up Hertl for Matheson + Malgin? (Of course we know Hertl can't be that good because he's only a 46 point player).

And your ballpark is way off.

Holy shit dude. I have no idea why you're getting so worked up about this. A FLA fan said what would I want from Florida and I said who I wanted from Florida.

Other people agreed on Braun + Tierney for a 1st + 2nd + Malgin. Are you trying to say a 1st, 2nd, and a prospect like Malgin isn't ballpark for Huberdeau or Borgstrom? Pretty sure that's around what they're worth.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Braun
Tierney

For

Malgin
Pysyk
Hawryluk

 

[Gecklund]

Thinking about this more and the only way we move Tierney is if he is asking too much or we sign Tavares. With that said I'd like to package Braun, Tierney, and Boedker for an upgrade at RD.

Meier-Tavares-Labanc
Couture-Hertl-Donskoi
Kane-Thornton-Pavelski
Sorenson-Goodrow-Balcers

Vlasic-RHD
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Heed

Jones
Dell

D that I would be interested in are (not saying value is fair just people that I want)
Alec Martinez (probably won't happen since he's a King)
Connor Murphy (haven't really decided on this, I think I would want more)
Matt Dumba (probably way too valuable)
Jared Spurgeron (again probably way too valuable)
Ryan Ellis (doubt Nashville trades him, and probably too valuable)
Matt Niskanen (this one I could see working if Capitals resign Carlson)
Charlie McAvoy (one can hope right?)
Aaron Ekblad (way too valuable)
Josh Manson (he's a Duck so probably won't happen)
Brandon Montour (again Duck)
Adam Larsson (too important to Oilers I would think)
David Schlemko (buy low, last resort option)
Dougie Hamilton (too valuable, but would be ideal)
Jordan Schmaltz (could be another option that wouldn't cost as much)
Markus Nutivaara (just resigned him but probably not available)
Erik Karlsson (obviously)
Mike Green (another buy low, just costing cap space)
Stephen Johns (buy low option)
Julius Honka (probably not available)
Damon Severson (probably too important to Devils)
Tyler Myers (would need adds to even out value but not sure if Jets want to sell)
Tyson Barrie (another ideal player that is too important to his team)
Jason Demers (would need to send salary back)
Niklas Hjalmarsson (don't know if Coyotes want to sell him)
Kevin Shattenkirk (would need to send salary back and waive NTC)
Ryan Pulock (doubt NYI want to give him up)

Players that probably could be had
Murphy, Niskanen, Schlemko, Hamilton, Schmaltz, Karlsson, Severson, Demers, Hjalmarsson, Shattenkirk

Any of these players I'd love to get but it's just a matter of finding the right deal because the Sharks don't have many pieces that they could move.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I think gaining assets that could be used to target other players in trade would work too.

Something like:


Braun
Tierney


2018 1st
Owen Tippet

Tallon throws his phone out the window.

Braun
Tierney

For

Malgin
Pysyk
Hawryluk

Easy yes from Florida.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Braun
Tierney

For

Malgin
Pysyk
Hawryluk

That's a negative ghost rider.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Thinking about this more and the only way we move Tierney is if he is asking too much or we sign Tavares. With that said I'd like to package Braun, Tierney, and Boedker for an upgrade at RD.

Meier-Tavares-Labanc
Couture-Hertl-Donskoi
Kane-Thornton-Pavelski
Sorenson-Goodrow-Balcers

Vlasic-RHD
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Heed

Jones
Dell

D that I would be interested in are (not saying value is fair just people that I want)
Alec Martinez (probably won't happen since he's a King)
Connor Murphy (haven't really decided on this, I think I would want more)
Matt Dumba (probably way too valuable)
Jared Spurgeron (again probably way too valuable)
Ryan Ellis (doubt Nashville trades him, and probably too valuable)
Matt Niskanen (this one I could see working if Capitals resign Carlson)
Charlie McAvoy (one can hope right?)
Aaron Ekblad (way too valuable)
Josh Manson (he's a Duck so probably won't happen)
Brandon Montour (again Duck)
Adam Larsson (too important to Oilers I would think)
David Schlemko (buy low, last resort option)
Dougie Hamilton (too valuable, but would be ideal)
Jordan Schmaltz (could be another option that wouldn't cost as much)
Markus Nutivaara (just resigned him but probably not available)
Erik Karlsson (obviously)
Mike Green (another buy low, just costing cap space)
Stephen Johns (buy low option)
Julius Honka (probably not available)
Damon Severson (probably too important to Devils)
Tyler Myers (would need adds to even out value but not sure if Jets want to sell)
Tyson Barrie (another ideal player that is too important to his team)
Jason Demers (would need to send salary back)
Niklas Hjalmarsson (don't know if Coyotes want to sell him)
Kevin Shattenkirk (would need to send salary back and waive NTC)
Ryan Pulock (doubt NYI want to give him up)

Players that probably could be had
Murphy, Niskanen, Schlemko, Hamilton, Schmaltz, Karlsson, Severson, Demers, Hjalmarsson, Shattenkirk

Any of these players I'd love to get but it's just a matter of finding the right deal because the Sharks don't have many pieces that they could move.

I'd still rather move them for an upgrade at forward and sign Carlsson, provided Tavares stays in NY.

 

[Gecklund]

I'd still rather move them for an upgrade at forward and sign Carlsson, provided Tavares stays in NY.

Carlson will cost so much is the problem. If he goes to FA I see him getting 9-10 simply because of how many teams need an established top pairing offensive RHD.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Holy **** dude. I have no idea why you're getting so worked up about this. A FLA fan said what would I want from Florida and I said who I wanted from Florida.

Other people agreed on Braun + Tierney for a 1st + 2nd + Malgin. Are you trying to say a 1st, 2nd, and a prospect like Malgin isn't ballpark for Huberdeau or Borgstrom? Pretty sure that's around what they're worth.

The only person worked up is the person using asterisks for swear words.

And just like it seems you don't know the value of 1 dimensional 40 pt wingers, you also don't understand that a deal is more than just about value. Maybe Huberdeau is worth a 1 and a 2 and a prospect like Malgin. Maybe not. But dealing you also have to consider where a team is, what they are trying to do and what they have on the roster and near roster. Dealing Huberdeau for such a package would set them back for the near future. So whether the value is fair or not doesn't matter.... they wouldn't do it.

And you never answered my question. Would you do Malgin + Matheson for Hertl?

If not why not? Huberdeau is better than Hertl.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Tallon throws his phone out the window

Lol. Perhaps I was a bit ambitious.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The way Sharks fans try to trade Labanc is honestly mind-boggling. No, he is not good defensively, and he’s small and not physical. But he can put up points and he’s really young. Why on earth are we trying to move this player?

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

The only person worked up is the person using asterisks for swear words.

And just like it seems you don't know the value of 1 dimensional 40 pt wingers, you also don't understand that a deal is more than just about value. Maybe Huberdeau is worth a 1 and a 2 and a prospect like Malgin. Maybe not. But dealing you also have to consider where a team is, what they are trying to do and what they have on the roster and near roster. Dealing Huberdeau for such a package would set them back for the near future. So whether the value is fair or not doesn't matter.... they wouldn't do it.

And you never answered my question. Would you do Malgin + Matheson for Hertl?

If not why not? Huberdeau is better than Hertl.

So, you're saying the value is in the ballpark but doesn't meet your team's needs... A lot different than going so far as to make repeated ad hominem attacks about the value being astronomically off. That's literally all you had to say. I'm not a Florida fan, so I have no idea what your team's plan is. All I know is you guys didn't make the playoffs, so I didn't think you were trying to contend right now. Figured maybe a short retool was a possibility.

And Tierney being one dimensional? Yea, okay. You do know he saw the most ice time shorthanded on a top five penalty kill in the league, right?

I wouldn't exactly say Huberdeau is better than Hertl either. I honestly wouldn't trade him for hubs straight up. Hertl has the ability to absolutely dominate and single handedly win games. I've never seen that from Huberdeau.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

The way Sharks fans try to trade Labanc is honestly mind-boggling. No, he is not good defensively, and he’s small and not physical. But he can put up points and he’s really young. Why on earth are we trying to move this player?

Because we need to move a top 9 forward

Pavs? I'd look into it, but I can bet DW won't.
Jumbo? Not even a possibility
Kane? Highly, highly doubtful
Hertl? Very unlikely
Timo? Also doubtful, would be a huge loss.
Donskoi? Way more value to us than someone else
Couture? No way

LaBanc is the one I'd rather keep the most out of the remaining three, but I'd still trade him for the right price.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Because we need to move a top 9 forward

Pavs? I'd look into it, but I can bet DW won't.
Jumbo? Not even a possibility
Kane? Highly, highly doubtful
Hertl? Very unlikely
Timo? Also doubtful, would be a huge loss.
Donskoi? Way more value to us than someone else
Couture? No way

LaBanc is the one I'd rather keep the most out of the remaining three, but I'd still trade him for the right price.

Why do we need to move a top-9 forward?

 

[Dr Quincy]

So, you're saying the value is in the ballpark but doesn't meet your team's needs... A lot different than going so far as to make repeated ad hominem attacks about the value being astronomically off. That's literally all you had to say. I'm not a Florida fan, so I have no idea what your team's plan is. All I know is you guys didn't make the playoffs, so I didn't think you were trying to contend right now. Figured maybe a short retool was a possibility.

And Tierney being one dimensional? Yea, okay. You do know he saw the most ice time shorthanded on a top five penalty kill in the league, right?

I wouldn't exactly say Huberdeau is better than Hertl either. I honestly wouldn't trade him for hubs straight up. Hertl has the ability to absolutely dominate and single handedly win games. I've never seen that from Huberdeau.

1) I didn't say it was in the ballpark. I said maybe Hubereau is worth a 1st a 2nd and Malgin. I said maybe he isn't. But that has nothing to do with your offer.

2) You clearly don't know what ad hominem means since I never made one.

3) I didn't say Tierney was one dimensional. I was talking about Labanc. And he is.

4)Funny how 40 pts to you means a player is worth a lot, but 69 pts is not better than 49. Interesting.
Over their careers: JH- .69 ppg
TH- .52 ppg(rounded up)

I'd suggest that your valuation of the 2 players is a little askew. And no, that still isn't an ad hominem.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Why do we need to move a top-9 forward?

Because we have 10 of them? And PDB wont ice any of these players on the fourth line?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Because we have 10 of them? And PDB wont ice any of these players on the fourth line?

He iced Boedker on the fourth line for quite a bit of the year.

 

[Halla]

Boedker is coming off 26 and 37pt seasons. not sure how you can call him a 40pt winger at this point (also he has done that just twice in 10 years)

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

1) I didn't say it was in the ballpark. I said maybe Hubereau is worth a 1st a 2nd and Malgin. I said maybe he isn't. But that has nothing to do with your offer.

2) You clearly don't know what ad hominem means since I never made one.

3) I didn't say Tierney was one dimensional. I was talking about Labanc. And he is.

4)Funny how 40 pts to you means a player is worth a lot, but 69 pts is not better than 49. Interesting.
Over their careers: JH- .69 ppg
TH- .52 ppg(rounded up)

I'd suggest that your valuation of the 2 players is a little askew. And no, that still isn't an ad hominem.

1. Okay. Whatever dude. Someone offering that package for him wouldn't be lambasted by you for being too low, nor should it be. So, if package A = package B, and B ~= C, A also ~= C. That's how it relates to what I said. I thought it was pretty obvious that what I said was relevant to the conversation.

2. You said my "ballpark is way off" without any substance to the actual conversation in terms of backing up your claim.
Also saying all I care about is points, when I made no claim whatsoever about that.

3. I will agree LaBanc is one dimensional.

4. Where did I ever say "X is good because they scored Z among of points." I gave their point totals to show that they are good players to those who aren't aware of who they are. Saying "player A is good. One metric to back this up is X" does not correlate to "player A has a good X, therefore he is good." I never said points are the only thing that matters. For some reason, you keep insisting this.


Here's why I'd take Hertl over Huberdeau :
1. Position
2. Better defensively (way better Takeaway to giveaway ratio), better Corsi and Corsi rel(yes, defense plays a part of this. If you can't play defense and get the puck back, your Corsi will suck unless your offense is just so good you always have the puck amd/or highly sheltered zone starts.)
3. Game breaking ability. I've never seen anything remotely as close to what Hertl did these playoffs from Huberdeau.
4. Ability to carry a line. Huberdeau was stapled to the hip of Barkov his entire career. He's never shown he can be "the guy" on a good line. Hertl has.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Boedker is coming off 26 and 37pt seasons. not sure how you can call him a 40pt winger at this point (also he has done that just twice in 10 years)

His career PPG=0.48
Career PPG x 82 =39.4
I think averaging 39.4 points for your career is worthy of being called a 40 point player, as is coming of a 0.5 PPG season, which would have been a 41 point season had he not missed 8 games.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

1. Okay. Whatever dude. Someone offering that package for him wouldn't be lambasted by you for being too low, nor should it be. So, if package A = package B, and B ~= C, A also ~= C. That's how it relates to what I said. I thought it was pretty obvious that what I said was relevant to the conversation.

2. You said my "ballpark is way off" without any substance to the actual conversation in terms of backing up your claim.
Also saying all I care about is points, when I made no claim whatsoever about that.

3. I will agree LaBanc is one dimensional.

4. Where did I ever say "X is good because they scored Z among of points." I gave their point totals to show that they are good players to those who aren't aware of who they are. Saying "player A is good. One metric to back this up is X" does not correlate to "player A has a good X, therefore he is good." I never said points are the only thing that matters. For some reason, you keep insisting this.


Here's why I'd take Hertl over Huberdeau :
1. Position
2. Better defensively (way better Takeaway to giveaway ratio), better Corsi and Corsi rel(yes, defense plays a part of this. If you can't play defense and get the puck back, your Corsi will suck unless your offense is just so good you always have the puck amd/or highly sheltered zone starts.)
3. Game breaking ability. I've never seen anything remotely as close to what Hertl did these playoffs from Huberdeau.
4. Ability to carry a line. Huberdeau was stapled to the hip of Barkov his entire career. He's never shown he can be "the guy" on a good line. Hertl has.

I say put up a poll on Huberdeau vs Hertl then. I'd like to think Huberdeau wins that big time even with him being the winger.