GDT: YoungStars GM 1: Canucks vs. Oilers - 7:30PM PST - Stream - Canucks.Com

[dwarf]

Yuck. An 80's esque result.

That could be what we are looking at in 4 years from now.

 

[WTG]

1st game of the year and people are already calling Shinkaruk a bust.

Lol he didn't have a good game. This is absolutely fine.

 

[PM]

Missed the game for the Foo Fighters concert so not much to say but it doesn't sound like Sautner and Cederholm belong anywhere near our AHL defense this year. If you replace Brisebois and Neill with Fedun and Biega you have this years defense on the Comets. Although there is still a chance we re-sign Huskins but I can't even think of who is managing our farm team right now.

Pleased to hear Subban and Hutton looked good. They are going to get big roles in Utica this year. Loved the JV hit but I would really, really love an actual goal from him. Hits are great and all but I'd be rather pissed if spent a 6th overall pick on a Raffi Torres replacement.

We should probably use a couple late picks on goaltenders at some point or even better a few astute free agent signings.

 

[Bougieman]

Virtanen is an impact player. Never gonna be the guy you want handling the puck during a cycle but he's just got so many physical gifts that he will create a tone of space for talent laden line mates.

Subban is a stud. Gonna be a good one. He looks insanely explosive this year and I was already impressed last season with his ability to sidestep checkers with ease.

McCann is our prospect with the highest ceiling. Tremendous skill set. Just needs to become a man. What a release and highly creative. I've watched him a tone the last couple years and I'm really high on this kid.

Shinkaruk is a smaller version of Chris Higgins. His ability to cash in on his chances will define how high he can go.

Cassels and Gaunce will be better in a more structured game with bottom 6 roles. NHLers for sure.

Gaunce just continuously impresses me with his smarts and with his shot. He may be the type of guy that plays on your second line and complements more skilled line mates. He always has me thinking "eww" the 1st couple times up and down the ice then he just continues to do things that impress. Such a sleeper.

Hutton has a very impressive tool box (being a college player I've only seen him a few times) his instincts are excellent as is his skating. Looks raw to me ( almost awkward sometimes) but does some intelligent things that separate him from the next tier of guys. Definitely a legit prospect. Should be an interesting one to follow with Utica.

I'm glad I stuck up for Mackenzie Stewart on these forums. I think people forget how much room a guy like Stewart can create for mostly himself and also to a lesser degree teammates. If the guy works his ass off at his skills and drives the net like a maniac.......he's got a legit shot to play in the show. Nobody wants anything to do with a guy like this.

Now I know a lot of you couldn't care less about a mostly enforcer type player that's easily replaceable being used up as a draft pick....but it's really good for all our young bucks to have a guy like this around them as they advance through the system even if it ends in Utica.

The rest of the guys look like massive long shots, way too physically immature or career Minor leaguers at this point.

I'm trying to stay away from using one game as a step off point for negativity (I've watched enough of these tournaments now to not give them much weight) but Lack for Brisebois at this point looks absolutely horrific.

This was a great post. Really appreciate the clarity and positive outlook. Agree with a lot of your assessments, too.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

1st game of the year and people are already calling Shinkaruk a bust.

Lol he didn't have a good game. This is absolutely fine.

He should be at the point though where when he's not having a good one, he's still standing out against guys who don't even have NHL contracts.

Or at least glimpses of something. I haven't completely written him off, but the more I see of him, the further my expectations drop.

 

[WTG]

He should be at the point though where when he's not having a good one, he's still standing out against guys who don't even have NHL contracts.

Or at least glimpses of something. I haven't completely written him off, but the more I see of him, the further my expectations drop.

It's a pre pre season game.

If this was a mid season game then I'd be worried. But this is before the hockey season even started.

Calm down.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

It's a pre pre season game.

If this was a mid season game then I'd be worried. But this is before the hockey season even started.

Calm down.

Riiiiiight, because I'm basing my view of Hunter Shinkaruk based on this one game. Having seen what I have of him since we drafted him certainly warrants to view him as a potential bust at this point.

He hasn't done anything to show he's capable of playing in the NHL. Having watched him in the AHL playoffs last year, there's no reason to expect him to improve either.

But yeah, it's a preseason game. One, at this point in his development, he should look better in. He was playing against guys without contracts and struggled. If you think he's going to look much better against actual competition, you're kidding yourself.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Shinkaruk is a smaller version of Chris Higgins. His ability to cash in on his chances will define how high he can go.

I'd love to hear how your reached this analysis. Their skill sets are drastically different, I'm trying to find one thing that's similar between them.

 

[TL12]

Shinkaruk, the 20 year old bust

 

[banme*]

Shinkaruk: not as bad as the consensus here IMO, but was disappointing nevertheless. Thought he showed some good board work but I think he suffered from Virtanen's unwillingness to pass to him, as this is a guy that needs to score to stand out. However, didn't look dynamic whatsoever re: skating, puck control.

Cassels: no issues defensively but I don't think this is the type of tournament that he's going to stand out in, needs to work on his skating.

Virtanen: obviously a physical stand out, and I think his work ethic or conditioning or whatever it was that had him coasting for half a shift has improved drastically. Also thought his positioning was improved re: getting himself into scoring positions, but he handled the puck like a grenade at times and really showed that trademark "me-against-the-world" play that he's been criticized for.

Gaunce: efficient player, not noticeable but will show up on the scoresheet. Despite this not really being his type of tournament, I thought he played admirably.

McCann: showed up here and there, but seemed kind of unenthusiastic about playing tbh.

Fox: never thought he had NHL upside and he hasn't done anything to change my mind. Smart player in terms of trying to get into position to use his shot, but trying is the crux: he's slow... like slow slow slow. Skating in quick sand.

LaBate: made a questionable hit, did nothing else. Not a particularly good skater.

Zhukenov: shifty and smart defensively, I think he was really dragged down by the quality of his linemates.

Zalewski: like LaBate, but without the questionable hit.

Stewart: quite surprising, good skater and hit hard. However, handles the puck as if it was actively trying to kill him.

Petit: invisible, except for getting scored on.

Abols: good work ethic, had a nice play to get a breakaway in the 1st. Not a great skater unfortunately.

Brisebois: another guy who I thought wasn't as bad as the consensus here, was really dragged down by Sautner getting walked like a cheap Sbisa. Looked panic'd often, but I think that was in response to trying to figure out how to cover up for Sautner. That being said, he was praised for his ability to control the play and calm things down ala Tanev, so in that respect he definitely wasn't good, but I think that will improve quickly once he gets a read on his partner and I wouldn't be surprised if he was much better next game.

Hutton: someone said that he reminded them of Edler in that he's got some nice tools and showed well for the majority of the game, but will pull some unbelievably boneheaded plays once in a while. Like that comparison.

Sautner: got walked like a cheap Sbisa.

Subban: was what Brisebois was hyped to be. Smooth skating, calm demeanour, moved the puck well, positionally sound. Was impressed at how well he handled the physical side of things. Definite upside here, will be very interesting to see how he progresses in the A this year.

Cederholm: was invisible, needs to be more physical if he wants to stick.

Neill: got walked like a cheap Bieksa.

Witt: whatever.

 

[UticaHockey]

Riiiiiight, because I'm basing my view of Hunter Shinkaruk based on this one game. Having seen what I have of him since we drafted him certainly warrants to view him as a potential bust at this point.

He hasn't done anything to show he's capable of playing in the NHL. Having watched him in the AHL playoffs last year, there's no reason to expect him to improve either.

But yeah, it's a preseason game. One, at this point in his development, he should look better in. He was playing against guys without contracts and struggled. If you think he's going to look much better against actual competition, you're kidding yourself.

Can't jump to conclusions on Shink based on one prospect touney game. What I will be looking for is any signs of explosive skating over the first month or so that was missing last season after recovering from hip surgery. That needs to return for Shink to play his game. If not he may need to retool his game to be successful at the next level.

Kind of like a pitcher drafted with a 98 MPH fastball then develops arm trouble and suddenly tops out at 89. That pitcher can't throw the ball by people anymore and needs to develop secondary pitches to succeed.

Shink didn't have the quickness to blow by anyone last year so it will be important that he worked on his strength and quickness over the summer.

 

[Fuimus]

Missed the game for the Foo Fighters concert so not much to say but it doesn't sound like Sautner and Cederholm belong anywhere near our AHL defense this year. If you replace Brisebois and Neill with Fedun and Biega you have this years defense on the Comets. Although there is still a chance we re-sign Huskins but I can't even think of who is managing our farm team right now.

Pleased to hear Subban and Hutton looked good. They are going to get big roles in Utica this year. Loved the JV hit but I would really, really love an actual goal from him. Hits are great and all but I'd be rather pissed if spent a 6th overall pick on a Raffi Torres replacement.

We should probably use a couple late picks on goaltenders at some point or even better a few astute free agent signings.

Also Pedan will be there.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Not sure if the Stewart praise is based on expectations, but he had a lot of trouble reading the play. Hitting and skating are good, but he'll need to not be a liability to stick in the AHL this year.

He's an excellent skater that didn't fall behind the play. He was able to catch must flightier players and hit them. That is promising. I think he can play spot duty in the NHL one day.

Shink, the defence and the goaltending were beyond awful and the main culprit in being beaten so badly. My god this team is thin on defensive prospects.

 

[absolute garbage]

Stewart is far from an "excellent" skater. He is pretty fast in straight line especially for a guy of his size but very clumsy. The good part is he can get a lick in on the forecheck a bit more often than someone like Sestito, but his skating won't be helping him to make any finesse plays. He's basically a "less-hulking" Lucic with absolutely zero puck skills.

He had a few hits and generally played his role ok but... that's it. His maximum upside is a replacement level 4th liner and spending draft picks/contract slots/development time for this is just useless.

 

[Huggy]

Man if we drafted theodore instead of shinkaruk and demanded vatanen for kesler our team would be elite

 

[Bad Goalie]

Horrible effort. Obviously defense was tragic. Subban, and to a lesser extent Hutton, looked okay but the rest were very poor.

Sautner was no where close to this level and was embarrassing. How did this player ever get offered a contract. You dump McNally and sign this player???? You have to wonder which Western scout saw anything here. Someone should be canned here.

Neill looked like the second second coming off Taylor Ellington. Only thing worst than is puck movement was his skating. Had trouble reversing direction and frequently stumbled when trying to stop when going backwards. Cederholm looked equally a slug.

Brisebois (guy we traded Lack for) looked totally confused and demonstrated almost zero ability to cover around the front of the net.

Given what we have seen its going to be a long season on defense for the Comets.

Gaunce and Virtanen were the only forwards that looked close to having a chance to make the team. Didn't see nearly enough out of Cassels or McCann. Neither showed enough speed.

Thought Zelewski was decent and he should have fairly good season in Utica.

Neither Fox of LaBate skate well enough to be considered true prospects.

Stewart looked clumsy at times but actually showed some promise. Needs a lot of work but given the speed, size and toughness there is something to work with here.

Goaltending would have had to be spectacular to keep the game close but it was far from that. Witt should not make the Comets.

Shinkaruk was a total disappointment and for Lord sake let's not bring up his hip injury. This player must be seen as in bust territory at present. Would say he that any window to move this player for something is shut.

Hey Orc, I always like to feed off of your breakdowns. They give me direction. I told myself not to get into this yet, but I don't listen well so here goes.

First and foremost we know we will really learn nothing from these three games. There is no direction or system. Every player is pretty much going it on his own. Guys needing more Jr. work stick out like deer in the headlights. Guys about to enter the pros with a lack of maturity look lost. Guys who have been playing at the pro level just try to stay out of trouble and remain injury free when it's over. They have nothing to prove in this type of game and are waiting for training camp. It's not worth any evaluation of most of these players in this atmosphere.

Hutton and Subban are Comets and there is no other possibility. They will make good plays and a few mistakes because they are not ready yet. Subban looks better than he is in these games because he can skate his way through it. At the next level they all skate too. His defensive game is yet to be learned. Hutton will look great and then make a major blunder. Learning curve is currently on the short end. Talent is there in both of these guys and as long as the Vancouver higher ups know they need to be paired up with veteran talent while they learn, they will both advance and their games will noticeably improve. That's why the A exists. Hutton's a bit older so he needs to grasp it quicker so the young ones don't catch up and pass him by over the next couple three years.

Sautner is an undrafted free agent long shot at best. The Zoo is where he should start his career and if the drafted ones succeed, it's where he will stay. Problem? The D-men currently in Utica's camp may give him a serious chance to stick as the #8. Cederholm is not that much better. Supposed to be a steady stay at home guy with little offensive talent. He would never look good in games like these with that description since there is no structure for him to fit into. He was drafted so he has an edge on Sautner.

Brisebois is a JR. and that's all that needs be said at this time.

"Given what we have seen its going to be a long season on defense for the Comets."

I have been hinting at this for weeks. Actually they can be decent with the signing of a Sanguinetti type or a Huskins type veteran defenseman to even out what they have. Biega and Fedun are good D-men, but they need one more to either be a rock solid stay at home veteran presence who demonstrates how to play positionally in his own end (Huskins) or a guy who plays well in his own end, but moves the puck with ease and threatens offensively, a veteran PMD (Sanguinetti). This gives Subban and Hutton a veteran partner to guide them along and cover up when they blunder. Biega had that assignment big time all last season. Fedun will serve just fine in that role as well. Pedan needs to have one as well. He's not ready to be the A-guy in his pair. It's not Ehrhardt or Mceneny who I'd keep as #s 7 and 8.

Zalewski isn't even a Vancouver contract and will be a pressbox reserve if Vancouver guys are ahead of him. His problem is a lack of flash. He's not a big goal scorer. He doesn't deliver big hits. He is a grinder and a good one. He can play center or wing. He was a part of the Comets amazing 4th line. They were one of the top 2 or 3 checking lines in the league (first in my mind since I didn't see one better). They could bottle up an opponent for an entire shift and do it all game long. Drove the opponent nuts. They also created countless scoring chances, but amazingly just couldn't finish. He never looked out of place vs. the best in the league and proved it all through the playoffs.

No fear on Witt with the Comets. He is backup insurance since the Canucks don't have one in their system between Cannata and Demko. Go figure! Bachman and Cannata will be fine in Utica. In fact they are a major plus.

Stewart is a project that hopefully starts the experiment in the Zoo. Blundering about trying to make the conversion from D to wing in the AHL for a not so good player in the first place is not how it should be done. If he gets it down there and appears ready, bring him up when a hole opens through injury or poor play.

LaBate makes the Comets unless new blood is acquired. How he will do is unanswered, but his pedigree says he is considered a go for now. He is naturally a center and is playing the wing where he's also played before but he has some learning to do. Fox will be the odd man out because he just doesn't skate well. As soon as he gets mixed in with a bunch of players with good feet he flounders.

Cassels is a Comet. He will ply his trade at the AHL level and learn to play against the pros. If he can get his game at the pro level to the same effectiveness he had in Jrs., he will be fine. He is very talented. He just has to grow and progress up the ladder like most other kids coming in from Jr. He isn't a blue chip, can't miss. He'll have to do his time. I feel he will come along just fine. Too good to fail. McCann is similar, but can't play in the AHL just yet. Jrs' is where he'll land.

Vancouver needs to fix their scarcity at center in means other than what they currently have in the system. They don't have anyone in the lower ranks that can fill that hole now and it would be a disservice to any kid they try to force in there before he's ready. If Vey can't do it, get one somewhere else. They will be there when NHL camps break.

Lastly, Gaunce and Shinkaruk will start the season as Comets and most likely stay the season. They will be given bigger roles and more will be expected of them. Gaunce is effective, but lacks the kind of eye catching pizazz people are expecting. If he can succeed as a second line winger, play on the 1st or 2nd PP, and kill penalties, Vancouver will have a success story. He had risen to that level last season except the 2nd line position. He couldn't keep up with the speed and the weaving game style of Conacher and Friesen. He's more of North/South type of winger and they were water bugs flying all over both sides of the rink. We have to remember he was playing the wing and not his more comfortable center position. Green has said he will be started on the wing, but they are not ruling out returning him to center. His wing play and the Comets' center situation will determine the outcome in this one. Vancouver's center dilemma may also push the buttons on this for Gaunce.

Shinkaruk is now ready to play pro hockey with no issues to blame. If he keeps trying to be a puck carrying, offensively threatening, dangling, beat the D-man, and score highlight reel goals, he's done. He saw Baertschi do that last year and he can't do that here. He has to take the breakout pass, get up ice, get the puck to his play maker (O'Reilly type), find open ice, get into the seams and lanes where he can get it back, and then use his unique skills in close to score goals. He can be a very good player, but his old habits will find him pushed wide, pasted to the boards, run to the ditch in the corners, forced off line and behind the net, or finally met at the gate by a very angry gatekeeper when he tries his endless attempts at the wraparound. His old style will end his progression to the bigs. Green was working that out of him, but frustration or a spark of success with an old trick would see him regress to the old habits. A demotion in lines or a rare visit to the press box would get him back on track and we'd see his goal threatening presence return. It's a matter of repetition until the newer things become the norm and then an old trick once in a while will produce a more well rounded threat every shift. I still think we see a success story here. I'll let you know how long I stay confident as the season progresses.

Oh, by the way, Shinkaruk can't do this without a seriously good play making center. His counterpart on the right wing, Grenier, won't have the season he had last year without the same. The Comets don't have this since O'Reilly left. Cal didn't score goals, he set them up. Jones is not that type of center. He scores goals first, but gives it up when his path is denied. Gaunce works well with this type of center. Add a winger like Cracknell and you have a very effective second line. Friesen (never) and Cassels (not yet) are not the first line center period, but definitely not of the ilk required for Shink and Grenny to succeed.

Truly sorry for the essay to all of you who detest them, but this thread was just crying out to me to get this off my chest.

 

[CanaFan]

Won't quote your post BG cause it would fill the rest of the page but I agree with a lot of it. Very reasonable, practical assessments. Agree that too much is made at times of these games. Yes it's fair to say guys did or didn't play well in the game but when it starts turning to "why did we draft this guy" or "we'll be so bad in 4 years" it's ridiculous. You don't project anything ever from a single game.

 

[CherryToke]

He should be at the point though where when he's not having a good one, he's still standing out against guys who don't even have NHL contracts.

Or at least glimpses of something. I haven't completely written him off, but the more I see of him, the further my expectations drop.

he needs to get a lot stronger for the syle of game he needs to play to be successful. seems like he's trying to avoid getting killed most of the time he's on the ice. panics/rushes plays when he hears foot steps. stays on the perimeter because he's afraid of dirty areas (for good reason). not close to NHL material yet.

 

[MS]

Won't quote your post BG cause it would fill the rest of the page but I agree with a lot of it. Very reasonable, practical assessments. Agree that too much is made at times of these games. Yes it's fair to say guys did or didn't play well in the game but when it starts turning to "why did we draft this guy" or "we'll be so bad in 4 years" it's ridiculous. You don't project anything ever from a single game.

True on freshly drafted guys like Brisebois.

But when it comes to guys like Cederholm and Sautner, some of us have been watching these guys for years and it comes as no surprise when they're terrible. Incomprehensible that either guy has an NHL contract.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

This blog did a great job putting up GIFs from last night.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/09/highlights-canucks-oilers-young-stars/

Here's my favorite

 

[Canucks LB]

Re-watching the game a bit, man virtanen should have scored at least 2 goals that game. Needs to finish some opportunities.

That being said, he was the one who created them. Very promising watching him throughout the game.

 

[Pip]

1st game of the year and people are already calling Shinkaruk a bust.

Lol he didn't have a good game. This is absolutely fine.

He's not a bust or on the verge of busting because of this game and this tournament won't decide his fate. However, this is a make or break year for Shinkaruk and if he doesn't produce that'll essentially be the end of him. All I was hoping for was for him to standout as a returning player to this tournament especially since he's supposed to have a siillset made for these less organized type of games.

 

[Huggy]

This blog did a great job putting up GIFs from last night.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/09/highlights-canucks-oilers-young-stars/

Here's my favorite

Oh my god just ****ing awesome

 

[rune74]

Did anyone really think the oilers wouldn't have better prospects with all their first round picks?

I think we had some good players out there last night, obviously not a connor McDavid but let's be real here...unless we do 10 years of crap like the oilers that most likely won't happen.

 

[CanaFan]

Did anyone really think the oilers wouldn't have better prospects with all their first round picks?

I think we had some good players out there last night, obviously not a connor McDavid but let's be real here...unless we do 10 years of crap like the oilers that most likely won't happen.

No doubt they had the better roster. Their high 2013 pick (Nurse) was there, ours (Bo) was not. I like Virts but Draisaitl is simply a better player, and next-Gretzky was there while Boeser is off at UND. Also our lack of focus and success in drafting D was massively apparent.

That said some of the guys that *should* have showed well - Shinkaruk in particular, but also Cassels and McCann to a degree - didn't have great games either.

We probably don't win the game but put Bo, Boeser, and Demko back in that line up and things look quite a bit better than this mess.