You have been given full control of the Winnipeg Jets: GO!

[Blue Shakehead]

I had a dream we traded Enstrom for OEL.
Felt so real I woke up and checked my phone

I wish I had these kinds of dreams. Mine are usually me and somebody from my past (i.e. an elementary school teacher) trying to find the keys to my locked truck. Oh and my boss there. and there's BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nothing Is New]

I believe that there is enough talent there to be competitive at least. To me it is our defensive system, or lack of it that is hurting us. Approx a week ago, Claude stated that our system is just like every other system and that it wasn't the problem. Then within hours the media sheep and board posters were saying the exact same thing. However, when you watch good teams you may notice that the forwards are getting in the passing and progress lanes preventing movement through the neutral zone. This is not simple as it involves lots of homework and lots of attention to detail. Who is their quarterback? What are their preferred breakouts? Who do we have with the skill set to stop particular guys? Defense is a game of inches and half/seconds and we are always just a bit late and a bit out of position. On top that, we have D out of position at least 10 times a game. There is a ton of work to be done with this group and I personally don't believe Claude has the answers.

Not being picky, but we are competitive. For a couple of years we have been just a few points away. I saw Atlanta change coaches a number of times with most of the same players we have now. The coaches didn't make a difference. Marian Hossa and Marc Savard and then the lack thereof made the difference.

One of the problems is -in a way- that we have just been good enough for the make-a-difference type prospects to not be available in the draft.

 

[garret9]

I had a dream we traded Enstrom for OEL.
Felt so real I woke up and checked my phone

I hada dream I actually got control of the Jets but was only trolling the fanbase...

I acquired Timonnen and ran a Enstrom, Timmonen 1-2 LHD punch just to piss everyone off about size/skill.

 

[Bob E]

I think if anyone thinks there are easy answers to improving this team, and that they have those answers are really fooling themselves.

The first problem is that we as fans do not know what has been going on behind the scenes for not only the first 9 games of the season, but for the pre-season, the 2012-2013 season, etc. So we're really shooting in the dark with "guesses" as to who are the problem pieces of the roster because while watching all the games is great, to formulate a truly informative answer, we would need all the facts.

That being said, here are a couple of my high level "guesses":

1) Against the grain of HF - Do not fire Noel. Reason? While it may be easier to fire 1 coach over 23 players, I would rather not make decisions because they are easy. Maybe Noel will need to go at some point, but 9 games in? And who do we get to replace him? There isn't anyone in the org that can step in and take over the "interim" tag. If we're going to go in a new coaching direction, wait until the offseason and do a proper search and interview process.
Plus, let's pretend that the issue with the Jets right now is really the effort level from the players. Sure it's on the coach to get the best out of his team, but at the professional level, it's really a lot on the players. So if the problem is really player effort and intensity (something Noel is publicly asking his players for more of), and the org decides to fire Noel, what does that say to the players? The players weren't working hard enough, the coach asked them for more, they don't respond, so the coach gets fired? Ya, that will sure scare the players into playing harder. Now if it's an X's and O's thing, that's different, but this isn't Noel's first rodeo. He's been around some of the best in the business (Hichcock, Trotz, etc), and they all say Noel is a great coach (I know they are not really going to publicly insult him, but they also don't have to give him glowing reviews either which I have heard).

2) Identify who the guys are that are not giving 100% effort every-night: Easier said than done for sure. I am hoping that if I was in this role for the last 3 years, that I would have a pretty good idea who the guys are that bring it every night. On the ice from my fan perspective, the only guy I can really say that about is Kane. Ladd was pretty good in this regard last year, but hasn't had a good start this year. Frolik looks to be a pretty consistent performer, but other than that, I don't know if any other forwards really bring it night in and night out. Little and Wheeler are extremely streaky it seems, and Seto as well. Not sure if the bottom 5 is really the problem right now (not that we couldn't improve there though).

3) Move guys from #2 that are not giving it 100% every game. Not looking to move these guys for nothing, but these would be the "culture" guys I would move. Even if those guys are identified to be Little and or Wheeler. Trading Little would be a bad move position wise and we would then be laughably bad down the middle, but maybe we would have to do that to get better in the long term?

4) In a general sense, try to create a more accountable system within the team - I'm not sure how these things are run behind the scenes (I don't think anyone here does), but I'm referring to practice, film review, evaluations, etc. Maybe start using some of the advanced stats stuff and plastering all that info on the locker room walls. Make the guys who are not performing have to see that info in front of everyone. Start trying to track some hustle / team play type stats. I don't know how you would do this, but some sort of system that tracks and identifies which guys are doing everything they can and leaving it all out there to win. I also don't know how the team does video sessions. Do they just have the video guy edit a whole bunch of selected clips for review? Time permitting I would want these guys to sit down as a team and watch these games from start to finish. Pause the game every-time there is something to discuss, and make players explain and be accountable for lack of effort situations. Want to float? you better be able to stand up in front of the team the next day and explain what you were doing on that play.

5) Keep trying to instill the "Team", "Family" culture: While trying to instill the accountable system, I wouldn't want to go to far and have anarchy and finger pointing within the locker room. To win we're still going to need guys to go to war for each other, and that isn't going to happen without a good team culture. I think TNSE does do work in this area, I just wanted to add it because I don't want to lose it by also focusing on the accountability aspect.

Those are some things off the top of my head from a high level managerial perspective. As I mentioned, it is tough to know which guys to move without knowing what is going on behind the scenes.

For a purely fun exercise though, here are some "guesses":

Agree with Bob E (and others) that we are going to need a #1C. We most likely won't get that "franchise" 1C, but we need something. Unfortunately, a team in the Avs that "might" move a C, would really want a guy like Enstrom. So if we move Enstrom, we need to then find another first pair LHD.

We could move Buff if the org decides that Buff is not a core piece going forward. The Flyers and Rangers seem like places that could offer nice pieces back.

I would look to improve the goaltending situation. The Ducks have goalie depth, I would inquire about a guy like Anderson. See what it would take to get a guy like Hiller or Halak as a UFA in the off season. Maybe inquire about Reimer as well in the offseason.

UFA players I would target would be Orpik, Klesla, Nikitin, Emelin (need a LHD if we move Enstrom), Stastny, Steen.

Love reading your posts, Huff. They are always extremely well thought out.
I agree that there's not an easy fix with this squad. It has to be concerning that they play inspired hockey one night, and look very disinterested the next. That would not be the culture TNSE wants to have set in for any length of time.

That's is why I proposed a coaching change and a couple of player moves. This team looks to be too comfortable. Long-term contracts may have created that a bit. But with this being an Olympic year, I thought we would see some fast starts. I liked that Noel has 'called out' the players in the media. He's feeling the heat. I expect a much more focused group tonight. But the more important question is, when they play well tonight and win, will they then become satisfied? This collective group lacks the desire to want to compete at the highest level, game in and game out. Noel has proven he can't get the most out of this group, imo, and a change is needed. It may take some time, but I don't see Noel lasting to Christmas, at this rate.

IMO, Kane is the only guy that has played like a man possessed. He looks like he wants to take the next step in his career and have playoff games and success on his resume.

I might add 19 yr old Trouba to that list of 'possessed players', too. You can tell he's had success in the past, and seems to almost will the team to do better, especially when he plays 24+ mins in all situations. That kid should be wearing a letter in a few years.

Ladd, Wheeler and Little have struggled, and seem to lack the necessary desire to truly lead this team. They seem to be taking a "it will take some time, but we'll get back on track" approach. That may be fine for a 2nd or 3rd line support line, but not the group you're hoping leads this team with their play. Only Kane, imo, is fully immersed in the "I'll do my best and whatever I can, to lead this team with my play" approach.

Olli has lost whatever game he had earlier in his career and now is 'just playing to play' in Noel-speak. There should be times when a support guy like Olli steps up and has a great game to help the team grab some points. Olli just has not done that.

On D, no player (other than maybe Trouba) seems to combine joining the rush offensively, with solid play defensively. Bogo tries, but lacks in both areas. The others add offense, but don't defend well. That mix will need to change and a solid defender is desperately needed, imo.

 

[cbcwpg]

Olli has lost whatever game he had earlier in his career and now is 'just playing to play' in Noel-speak. There should be times when a support guy like Olli steps up and has a great game to help the team grab some points. Olli just has not done that.

The really scary part..... the last game against Nashville.. IMO, Olli was one of the few guys that was at least trying. I noticed him out there effort wise.

You know you aren't getting the effort out of a lot a guys when Jokinen starts to stand out.

 

[Bob E]

Double post.

 

[Jet]

Love reading your posts, Huff. They are always extremely well thought out.
I agree that there's not an easy fix with this squad. It has to be concerning that they play inspired hockey one night, and look very disinterested the next. That would not be the culture TNSE wants to have set in for any length of time.

That's is why I proposed a coaching change and a couple of player moves. This team looks to be too comfortable. Long-term contracts may have created that a bit. But with this being an Olympic year, I thought we would see some fast starts. I liked that Noel has 'called out' the players in the media. He's feeling the heat. I expect a much more focused group tonight. But the more important question is, when they play well tonight and win, will they then become satisfied? This collective group lacks the desire to want to compete at the highest level, game in and game out. Noel has proven he can't get the most out of this group, imo, and a change is needed. It may take some time, but I don't see Noel lasting to Christmas, at this rate.

IMO, Kane is the only guy that has played like a man possessed. He looks like he wants to take the next step in his career and have playoff games and success on his resume.

I might add 19 yr old Trouba to that list of 'possessed players', too. You can tell he's had success in the past, and seems to almost will the team to do better, especially when he plays 24+ mins in all situations. That kid should be wearing a letter in a few years.

Ladd, Wheeler and Little have struggled, and seem to lack the necessary desire to truly lead this team. They seem to be taking a "it will take some time, but we'll get back on track" approach. That may be fine for a 2nd or 3rd line support line, but not the group you're hoping leads this team with their play. Only Kane, imo, is fully immersed in the "I'll do my best and whatever I can, to lead this team with my play" approach.

Olli has lost whatever game he had earlier in his career and now is 'just playing to play' in Noel-speak. There should be times when a support guy like Olli steps up and has a great game to help the team grab some points. Olli just has not done that.

On D, no player (other than maybe Trouba) seems to combine joining the rush offensively, with solid play defensively. Bogo tries, but lacks in both areas. The others add offense, but don't defend well. That mix will need to change and a solid defender is desperately needed, imo.

Good post, but I have to slightly disagree with this one. Enstrom has been fantastic this year. A bit of a rusty start but man he is really playing well in both ends right now. I sure hope he stays healthy because this is the Toby I have been waiting to see for 2+ years now.

I still expect Bogo to turn it around. He has been getting modestly better IMO. He is working hard and looks like he is trying to stay positive so I am hoping we are seeing a slow but steady turnaround. I think Bogosian would really benefit by having the same partner on a regular basis.

Byfuglien has games where I just marvel at what he can do, and games where I want to strangle him. If anyone can harness his ability and get him playing consistently the NHL will see the next Chara. (in a manner of speaking of course, 2 very different players)

 

[Whileee]

Buff moves up to forward every other game, and on full moon nights.

Wright plays the point on the power play so that we have stronger checking on the ice in case the other team gets the puck.

Scheifele becomes a grinder on the shut-down D line with Wright and Thorburn.

Pavs plays all but four games, including all back-to-backs.

Wheeler is benched for failing to play Noel's system, and then gets exiled to the KHL.

Jokinen is re-signed to a 3-year contract to centre the Jets 2nd line with Ladd and Halischuk.

Kane moves up to the first line with Little and Wright (who is given the "A" from Stuart).

Frolik plays on the third line with Slater and Setoguchi, getting about 11 minutes a night (no PK time this year, but maybe next year once he learns the Jets incredibly complex PK system).

The D pairings are rotated every period to make sure that everyone knows how to play the system. Bogo has to play LD and RD on alternating shifts.

All practices are entirely without pucks until the Jets start working instead of trying to use their skill. The Jets sign Hal Gill to a 3-year contract to emphasize the "work, not skill" culture in the team.

 

[cbcwpg]

All practices are entirely without pucks until the Jets start working instead of trying to use their skill. The Jets sign Hal Gill to a 3-year contract to emphasize the "work, not skill" culture in the team.

"Fueled By Work...Not Skill"

Or is this what the team means by passion?

 

[ihadtochangethename]

Buff moves up to forward every other game, and on full moon nights.

Wright plays the point on the power play so that we have stronger checking on the ice in case the other team gets the puck.

Scheifele becomes a grinder on the shut-down D line with Wright and Thorburn.

Pavs plays all but four games, including all back-to-backs.

Wheeler is benched for failing to play Noel's system, and then gets exiled to the KHL.

Jokinen is re-signed to a 3-year contract to centre the Jets 2nd line with Ladd and Halischuk.

Kane moves up to the first line with Little and Wright (who is given the "A" from Stuart).

Frolik plays on the third line with Slater and Setoguchi, getting about 11 minutes a night (no PK time this year, but maybe next year once he learns the Jets incredibly complex PK system).

The D pairings are rotated every period to make sure that everyone knows how to play the system. Bogo has to play LD and RD on alternating shifts.

All practices are entirely without pucks until the Jets start working instead of trying to use their skill. The Jets sign Hal Gill to a 3-year contract to emphasize the "work, not skill" culture in the team.

This is so incredibly ludicrous, it just might work.

 

[peg]

I will make it simple.

1. Replace the coach with someone who is both offensively oriented and known to be motivational. There must be a few of them out there. Hockey is not a complex game.

2. Look to trade Enstrom for the best Center you can find. I really like Enstrom, but I have a concern WHEN we make the playoffs that he will not be durable enough for a long playoff run when the big boys start getting serious. We will have Buff, Bogo, Trouba and Morrissey left for a solid top 4. None of those guys belong in a third pairing.

3. Patiently wait for Lowry, Morrissey, Petan and others to improve the overall strength of the team.

4. Keep your fan base happy by demonstrating, through the firing of the coach, that while we have a long term plan, we also expect the most out of our players short term and won't accept anything but the best effort possible from the players we have.

 

[Bob E]

Good post, but I have to slightly disagree with this one. Enstrom has been fantastic this year. A bit of a rusty start but man he is really playing well in both ends right now. I sure hope he stays healthy because this is the Toby I have been waiting to see for 2+ years now.

I still expect Bogo to turn it around. He has been getting modestly better IMO. He is working hard and looks like he is trying to stay positive so I am hoping we are seeing a slow but steady turnaround. I think Bogosian would really benefit by having the same partner on a regular basis.

Byfuglien has games where I just marvel at what he can do, and games where I want to strangle him. If anyone can harness his ability and get him playing consistently the NHL will see the next Chara. (in a manner of speaking of course, 2 very different players)

Ya, I painted Toby with the same brush as the others, and that's likely not fair to him. I like his game this year.

I also liked how Buff was playing for the most part, but last game concerned me. If he goes back to how he played earlier this year, its all good. Though the fact they can't - or don't - reign him in during the game, bothers me too.

I do feel that much of Bogo's struggles, at times, comes from playing the off-side. He seems to react late, once he realizes he's the LH dman on the ice. But with more experience and time there, I think he'll be just fine. And once comfortable playing either side, and playing 23+ mins/gm, Bogo just may return to his beastly self.

I think he plays well with young Trouba, and I like that pairing. I still think, long-term, Bogo needs to be paired with a steady, defensively-sound LH dman.

 

[Stephaaane]

Would you guys do a Bogosian VS Eller trade?

Ladd-Little-Wheeler
Kane-Eller-Frolik
Tangradi-Jokinen-Setoguchi
Peluso-Cormier-Halischuk

Byfuglien-Clitsome
Enstrom-Trouba
Pardy-Postma


Would Give time to Scheifele to become a better player in AHL and I think Eller-Kane would be awesome. Both plays a high speed hockey.

 

[Bob E]

Would you guys do a Bogosian VS Eller trade?

Ladd-Little-Wheeler
Kane-Eller-Frolik
Tangradi-Jokinen-Setoguchi
Peluso-Cormier-Halischuk

Byfuglien-Clitsome
Enstrom-Trouba
Pardy-Postma


Would Give time to Scheifele to become a better player in AHL and I think Eller-Kane would be awesome. Both plays a high speed hockey.

Nope. Habs would have to add, and even then, not sure I'd want Eller as a key piece anyway.

Mention Gally, and there may be something to work with there.

 

[Huffer]

Would you guys do a Bogosian VS Eller trade?

Nope. We don't need to move Bogosian to let Scheifele develop in the AHL. Scheifele is doing just fine in the NHL.

Would not move Bogosian for Eller anyway.

 

[JetsFan815]

Would you guys do a Bogosian VS Eller trade?

No. A comparable trade is the Schenn-VanReimsdyk trade. That's a baseline. Luke Schenn has proven less in the NHL than Bogo and JVR is a better player than Eller (and according to rumors the Flyers proposed JVR for Bogo at last year's draft) If Bogo was being traded I'd expect a player of higher caliber than Eller coming back. Somebody like JVR or Brayden Schenn.

 

[BigZ65]

Bogo is going to be hard to move with that contract extension IMO, term more than $$$. It's a gamble that he lives up to his potential, and he has some injury concerns too. I suppose a cap team (14-15 and beyond cap) could always move him to a team trying to reach the floor if he becomes an albatross.

 

[KingBogo]

Bogo is going to be hard to move with that contract extension IMO, term more than $$$. It's a gamble that he lives up to his potential, and he has some injury concerns too. I suppose a cap team (14-15 and beyond cap) could always move him to a team trying to reach the floor if he becomes an albatross.

This just doesn't make sense. Bogo is a little off so far this season but would be snapped up so quick if Jets were low balling him around the league. No GM in the world gives up on a guy who is 23 with his potential, skill set and already demonstrated high level of play because of a stretch where is play is off a previous high standard. In no way Bogosain is ever going to be an albatross for a team. Our albatross who is struggling played 26:33 last game and was +2.

 

[Gnova]

This just doesn't make sense. Bogo is a little off so far this season but would be snapped up so quick if Jets were low balling him around the league. No GM in the world gives up on a guy who is 23 with his potential, skill set and already demonstrated high level of play because of a stretch where is play is off a previous high standard. In no way Bogosain is ever going to be an albatross for a team. Our albatross who is struggling played 26:33 last game and was +2.

I'd like to agree with but with his current contract I'm not sure how many teams would handcuff themselves against the cap for potential.

I just hope he smartens up. I think he misses Hainsey.

 

[KingBogo]

I'd like to agree with but with his current contract I'm not sure how many teams would handcuff themselves against the cap for potential.

I just hope he smartens up. I think he misses Hainsey.

Even if Bogosain leveled off right where he is now every GM in the league would take him if you were giving him away. Most would give you a very sizable return and still be happy.

 

[BigZ65]

This just doesn't make sense. Bogo is a little off so far this season but would be snapped up so quick if Jets were low balling him around the league. No GM in the world gives up on a guy who is 23 with his potential, skill set and already demonstrated high level of play because of a stretch where is play is off a previous high standard. In no way Bogosain is ever going to be an albatross for a team. Our albatross who is struggling played 26:33 last game and was +2.

I'm talking about the perspective of a team like Montreal...someone proposed Eller for Bogosian. I don't think I'd take on Bogo's deal if I'm a team like Montreal that is almost always going to be at the cap (term more of a factor than $$$), plus giving up an asset like Eller.

 

[Gnova]

Even if Bogosain leveled off right where he is now every GM in the league would take him if you were giving him away. Most would give you a very sizable return and still be happy.

I'd like to think so but wonder if we overvalue him as Jets fans.

Like Oilers fans and Hall, or Leafs and Gardiner.
But most also said that Habs fans way overvalued Subban but they were right.

 

[KingBogo]

I'm talking about the perspective of a team like Montreal...someone proposed Eller for Bogosian. I don't think I'd take on Bogo's deal if I'm a team like Montreal that is almost always going to be at the cap (term more of a factor than $$$), plus giving up an asset like Eller.

I'd like to think so but wonder if we overvalue him as Jets fans.

Like Oilers fans and Hall, or Leafs and Gardiner.
But most also said that Habs fans way overvalued Subban but they were right.

So go post a value of Bogosain thread on the main board. And do it without ******* all over him in the OP.

 

[Huffer]

So go post a value of Bogosain thread on the main board. And do it without ******* all over him in the OP.

Hopefully not. Just search for the other 100.

 

[Bob E]

If Bogo continues his current play - and finishes the year with 5+ g, 20+ a, 25+ pts, +10 (or higher +/-), consistently gives physical element, plays 24+ mins, and plays 70+ gms - and on top of that, helps nurture a young Jacob Trouba... There is no chance I move him, and he's worth $, and glad he has the term he does.

I know plus/minus isn't the end all, be all - but currently, Bogo is a +4, Buff is a -2. Bogo's on pace to be a +30 (likely won't be nearly that high), and Buff's on pace for -15 (likely won't be that bad either). Interesting.