Post-Game Talk: You Gelly ???? Sens Fans...... Devils win 5-2

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

And you asked what FA's have left the team. I listed 2 HOF's, a perenial all star, our leading goal scorer from last year, numerous other all stars and you come back with "Underwhelming" get out of here with that ish. .

FA's leave nearly every team. That's what you're not understanding. You make it seem like NJ leads the league in players leaving elsewhere. One of the HOFs you listed did not leave the team. Lou let him go. Shanny was an RFA. Lou could have matched and he would have been a Devil. Nieds and Zach went "home," fair losses, but other franchises have lost players in similar fashion as well. Just look at Jagr.

But that is all besides the point and I won't argue further. Don't need to, I won all ready.

No I think you realize you've been backed into a corner and are scrambling to recover some semblance of credibility. It's best to admit that you are wrong. It's ok. We're human. People are wrong all the time.

Bottom line is, if you don't think Cory could walk next year, you are ignoring reality

Sure he can. But just because he plays in NJ doesn't increase those odds. That's fear-mongering. You have no evidence of that. Outside of a list of 9 players, the majority that don't apply for a variety of reasons, and your proclamation that you're "right."

Oh and let's not forget to mention how you ignore Lou's decision not to make an effort to re-sign some of those guys (Gomez, Martin, Holik, Driver) but felt the need to make it look like NJ loses UFAs etc... As if teams don't make conscious decisions to let certain players go. Like if this isn't a salary cap sport.

You won the internet congrats.

 

[devilsblood]

Your argument is fallacious. To quote you: "Losing FA's is part of the fabric that Lou has woven" and "I bet we have one of the higher ratio's in the league in terms of losing high profile FA's."

Both of which are wrong.



So now we're counting guys that Lou didn't want

Lou didn't want? Or lou didn't want to pay as much as another team.


Please give me another team that has lost 2 HOF's and guy of Parise's caliber during this time frame.


Are you really arguing that there is little chance that Cory could walk?

 

[DraastiK]

Lou didn't want? Or lou didn't want to pay as much as another team.


Please give me another team that has lost 2 HOF's and guy of Parise's caliber during this time frame.


Are you really arguing that there is little chance that Cory could walk?

Yes. Let's be honest, nothing is set in stone here.

 

[glenwo2]

dude wake me when you actually get to all 6's. What a waste of a post.




And I am just joshing.

We both know you're not.



Okay....you are.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

If Marty comes back next season, he's going to take a reduced role imho. If that's not good for him, which I don't see being a problem, he's going to retire. This is all assuming he finishes this season healthy and in good standing. He's talked about maybe paying elsewhere and all that, but lets be real, the chances of seeing him in another sweater are basically zero. Lou is not going to push him out the door, but both men know that next year is way too important for the future of the franchise. If they plan on having Cory stick around, he's got to be the man next year. They have to make the transition.

Marty is still plenty capable, but the consistency is just not what it used to be. He can't maintain his highest level for as many consecutive games as he used to. It used to be that he would get into a zone and it would / could last for months. Now, if you get two or three solid games, it's best to spot the guy and give him a break. And this is just going to degrade as time passes by. This is a transitional year for both him and Cory and it should be that way unless Marty completely falters. You just don't dismiss the perosn who has been defending the goal for 2/3 rds of your franchise's existence. Next year, however, the timing is optimal to pass the torch and for Marty, if he wants and is capable of hanging around, to become a backup.

 

[sbresistor]

what has Schneider done to be equated with Aaron Rodgers? the guy is good - but I'm pretty sure he is not the best

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Lou didn't want? Or lou didn't want to pay as much as another team.

Lou didn't want them at the ridiculous contracts they got. And he was right every step of the way. He was right on with Shanny, right on with Gomez, right on with Holik, right on with Martin. 2 of the 4 were bought out. One got us Stevens. Andy Greene was cheaper and just as good as the fourth. It's called smart cap management. You don't get a trophy for keeping all of your free agents. Some will inevitably go. So if you're listing every FA that left the franchise your list will be long and some will be good players. Which is why context is important. Which is why you look to see if Lou even cared about signing some of those guys.

And again your Shanny example is inaccurate. He was an RFA, not a UFA. He did not have the option to walk.

Please give me another team that has lost 2 HOF's and guy of Parise's caliber during this time frame.

Are you really arguing that there is little chance that Cory could walk?

Jaromir Jagr / Messier from the Rags off the top of my head. I'm sure if I looked, without context, at all the FAs lost by a bunch of teams I'd walk away with a list far more impressive than whatever you put out there.

And no, I'm arguing that playing in NJ doesn't increase that risk. That NJ isn't to UFAs as Raid is to roaches.

 

[Emperoreddy]

There really is not this great chance he leaves that is being built up here. Lou will overpay to keep him, just like he "overpaid" for Zajac because we needed to keep him. There isn't going to be a one year RFA thing.

Lou traded for Cory with every intention of throwing the whole bank at him if need be. He did it for Kovy, he did it for Zajac.

Clarkson was not a key piece to this team and was not worth what he is getting paid. It was a smart non-sign. Zach wanted the bank and wanted to play with Suter.

 

[devilsblood]

Teams overpaying does not weaken my argument at all.

And Jagr-Messier is 2/3's of what I asked for.

A fair counter though.

 

[Devils Trap]

Lol why does our recent inability to keep FAs have to do with Cory ???

He is his own person, maybe he isn't like them. Maybe he wants to stay. Can't automatically make him te bad guy here cause others left

 

[tycobb]

what has Schneider done to be equated with Aaron Rodgers? the guy is good - but I'm pretty sure he is not the best

Rodgers was the backup for 3 years before Green Bay decided it was worth losing Favre to give Rogers a chance.

 

[tycobb]

There really is not this great chance he leaves that is being built up here. Lou will overpay to keep him, just like he "overpaid" for Zajac because we needed to keep him. There isn't going to be a one year RFA thing.

Lou traded for Cory with every intention of throwing the whole bank at him if need be. He did it for Kovy, he did it for Zajac.

Clarkson was not a key piece to this team and was not worth what he is getting paid. It was a smart non-sign. Zach wanted the bank and wanted to play with Suter.

Exactly. We aren't going to be asking Cory to take any sort of discount. Which is why I am 98% sure he resigns over the summer.

 

[devilsblood]

There really is not this great chance he leaves that is being built up here. Lou will overpay to keep him, just like he "overpaid" for Zajac because we needed to keep him. There isn't going to be a one year RFA thing.

Lou traded for Cory with every intention of throwing the whole bank at him if need be. He did it for Kovy, he did it for Zajac.

Clarkson was not a key piece to this team and was not worth what he is getting paid. It was a smart non-sign. Zach wanted the bank and wanted to play with Suter.

I'm not saying it's a lock or a high chance that he does bolt. but guys acting like there is little to no chance he bolts? No way. We've tangented off, but point is, he is a UFA after next season. And UFA's can walk.

Maybe Lou has had talks with Marty, and they've already planned out Marty stepping back and allowing Cory to take that #1 undisputed next year. I don't think it's the case, and I certainly don't know it's the case, but it is possible. But if it's not the case?

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Teams overpaying does not weaken my argument at all.

And Jagr-Messier is 2/3's of what I asked for.

A fair counter though.

Ottawa: Ottawa lost: Zdeno Chara, Alfie, Gonchar, Hossa, Brian Elliott (all star)

Again, off the top of my head. Calgary lost Bouw and Iginla. Again, off the top of my head. If you haven't figured out that you're wrong and every team loses big guys by now you're just never going to get it.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I'm not saying it's a lock or a high chance that he does bolt. but guys acting like there is little to no chance he bolts? No way. We've tangented off, but point is, he is a UFA after next season. And UFA's can walk.

Maybe Lou has had talks with Marty, and they've already planned out Marty stepping back and allowing Cory to take that #1 undisputed next year. I don't think it's the case, and I certainly don't know it's the case, but it is possible. But if it's not the case?

"Losing FA's is part of the fabric that Lou has woven" and "I bet we have one of the higher ratio's in the league in terms of losing high profile FA's."

Oh come on.

 

[devilsblood]

Lol why does our recent inability to keep FAs have to do with Cory ???

He is his own person, maybe he isn't like them. Maybe he wants to stay. Can't automatically make him te bad guy here cause others left

It was a tangent argument. It was not meant to prove Cory WILL walk. It was proof that FA's do walk. Happens every year, and sure happens to other teams as well. Which doesn't weaken my argument at all.

Lost in this argument was my accompanying premise which was: Cory has already expressed frustration with his lack of playing time in NJ.

Now that could change. But right now Marty is getting the majority of starts, and Deboer just laid down a "I'm rolling with whoever is winning" which, right now, and pretty much all season, has been Marty.

Also add in that Marty said, just last night "I wish I was playing more".

 

[devilsblood]

Ottawa: Ottawa lost: Zdeno Chara, Alfie, Gonchar, Hossa, Brian Elliott (all star)

Again, off the top of my head. Calgary lost Bouw and Iginla. Again, off the top of my head. If you haven't figured out that you're wrong and every team loses big guys by now you're just never going to get it.

If you are using Iginla, can I use Kovy?

But whatever. I'll step back a bit. But "Every team loses FA's" does not make "NJ loses FA's a false statement". Actually does the opposite. Renders it a necessity.

And if it makes you feel better I'll stick the former statement into my argument in place of the latter.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm not saying it's a lock or a high chance that he does bolt. but guys acting like there is little to no chance he bolts? No way. We've tangented off, but point is, he is a UFA after next season. And UFA's can walk.

Maybe Lou has had talks with Marty, and they've already planned out Marty stepping back and allowing Cory to take that #1 undisputed next year. I don't think it's the case, and I certainly don't know it's the case, but it is possible. But if it's not the case?

Most likely those talks will happen in the off season as Marty's contract is up. Lou might tell Marty it is best for him to look elsewhere if he REALLY wants a full workload next year. We don't know, but it is possible (and goes along with the Favre/Rodgers thing).

Facts are facts, whatever Marty WANTS, father time is catching up to him fast. He can definitely still play but it is going to be more and more limited, and I don't think he is really THAT blind to this. Just because he still wants as many games as possible this year doesn't mean it will be the same next year.

Fact remains odds are very high that Cory is still going to take a more bulk workload going forward this season, and DEFINITELY next season. Lou is GOING to throw a lot of money and years his way as well.

Any frustration Cory has now (and honestly he hasn't really shown any sort of frustration, that was really overblown) he knows MArty is old as hell.

 

[devilsblood]

Ottawa: Ottawa lost: Zdeno Chara, Alfie, Gonchar, Hossa, Brian Elliott (all star)

Again, off the top of my head. Calgary lost Bouw and Iginla. Again, off the top of my head. If you haven't figured out that you're wrong and every team loses big guys by now you're just never going to get it.

Bouwmeester was traded too. The top of your head is broken.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Bouwmeester was traded too. The top of your head is broken.

Wait you used an RFA in Shanny and I can't use guys who were traded? (For the record I am wrong on Bou. again, going off of memory).


No one is denying that there's a possibility that Cory bolts, it's understood. Any UFA has the option to leave. Your implication that there's a higher chance of UFAs leaving NJ is what I took issue with. You're wrong. Every team loses UFAs.

Proceed to use guys Lou had no interest in keeping and the handful of guys we lost to a boatload of money (like many other teams) to lend credence to your fear mongering.

 

[tycobb]

It was a tangent argument. It was not meant to prove Cory WILL walk. It was proof that FA's do walk. Happens every year, and sure happens to other teams as well. Which doesn't weaken my argument at all.

Lost in this argument was my accompanying premise which was: Cory has already expressed frustration with his lack of playing time in NJ.

Now that could change. But right now Marty is getting the majority of starts, and Deboer just laid down a "I'm rolling with whoever is winning" which, right now, and pretty much all season, has been Marty.

Also add in that Marty said, just last night "I wish I was playing more".

Marty is 10-8 with 5 more starts (4 after Friday). If we lose on Saturday and Cory plays well tomorrow I won't be shocked to see Cory start Monday against Chicago.

 

[devilsblood]

Most likely those talks will happen in the off season as Marty's contract is up. Lou might tell Marty it is best for him to look elsewhere if he REALLY wants a full workload next year. We don't know, but it is possible (and goes along with the Favre/Rodgers thing).

Facts are facts, whatever Marty WANTS, father time is catching up to him fast. He can definitely still play but it is going to be more and more limited, and I don't think he is really THAT blind to this. Just because he still wants as many games as possible this year doesn't mean it will be the same next year.

Fact remains odds are very high that Cory is still going to take a more bulk workload going forward this season, and DEFINITELY next season. Lou is GOING to throw a lot of money and years his way as well.

Any frustration Cory has now (and honestly he hasn't really shown any sort of frustration, that was really overblown) he knows MArty is old as hell.

Lou not re-signing Marty,if he wants to continue playing, would be a bold, bold move. Favre and Rogers is a good example of a similar scenario. Paid off well for GB. If Dev's could get similar results I'd be ecstatic. But again, BOLD move.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Lou didn't want? Or lou didn't want to pay as much as another team.

opportunity costs are a big part of a GMs job. Paying top dollar for talent that you can get at a lower price from someone else who might be younger and better in the long term, is pretty silly.

Driver - he was unwanted.
Holik - he was at the end of his career
Gomez - he was a turnover machine. It was questionable whether we should have signed him for 1/2 of what the Rags paid.
Gionta - we probably would have liked to have back. That said, his 46 goals was not a true indicator. we had his replacement brother in the pipeline, anyway

Clarkson/Parise/Nieds did the 'home' thing. $$$ wasn't an issue.

I get that losing these guys can lead to paranoia, but I think we're just going to have to wait and see about Cory.

 

[devilsblood]

Wait you used an RFA in Shanny and I can't use guys who were traded?

Even without them your still wrong.

Watching you back track like a pro-bowl corner has been hysterical.

"UFA's bolt from NJ all the time."
"Losing FA's is part of the fabric that Lou has woven"
"I bet we have one of the higher ratio's in the league in terms of losing high profile FA's."

And then the clincher

"I'm not saying it's a lock or a high chance that he does bolt"

And then the good old let me just go back and time and amend my statement.

No one is denying that there's a possibility that Cory bolts, it's understood. Any UFA has the option to leave. Your implication that there's a higher chance of UFAs leaving NJ is what I took issue with. You're wrong. Every team loses UFAs.

Proceed to use guys Lou had no interest in keeping and the handful of guys we lost to a boatload of money (like many other teams) to lend credence to your fear mongering.

Clap for yourself and proclaim yourself the winner of the internet again as well.

Dude sorry I didn't put the stupid sarcasm thing up there. Hate those things anyway, from now on just assume a level of sarcasm when I sling an insult. No ill, just ball busting, scouts honor.

But anyway. Your post fails miserably in that I am suggesting a trade for Schneids. Just like Calgary did with both Bouw and Iginla. Your providing examples that support my argument. The Shanahan RFA is so much closer to UFA then to either of these examples.

But let's just freaking move on and agree that FA's leave teams.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Dude sorry I didn't put the stupid sarcasm thing up there. Hate those things anyway, from now on just assume a level of sarcasm when I sling an insult. No ill, just ball busting, scouts honor.

But anyway. Your post fails miserably in that I am suggesting a trade for Schneids. Just like Calgary did with both Bouw and Iginla. Your providing examples that support my argument. The Shanahan RFA is so much closer to UFA then to either of these examples.

But let's just freaking move on and agree that FA's leave teams.

Fair enough. Sorry if you felt I insulted you. No hard feelings I misunderstood your sarcasm.