Post-Game Talk: Yikes

Who's assigned to Springfield when Luongo returns?


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sinDer

Registered User
Nov 22, 2006
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I don’t know how many different coaches this team needs to play the game the right way.

It's not about the coach.

No fans and no media coverage. No one cares about them and about how bad they are and they've been.

Lose 10 in row and no one is going to talk about it.

Lose 10 in a row in Montreal? Players are scared to come out of their house.
 

Dread Clawz

LAWSonic Boom
Nov 25, 2006
27,353
8,751
Pennsylvania
We could use a little more grit and physicality at the moment. Sceviour to the 2nd was the right move, Brouwer deserves to be in the top-9 atm. While the first line is working I’d still like to try Hoffman there and see how it works for two or three games.

Hoffman-Barkov-Dadonov
Huberdeau-Sceviour-Trocheck
Vatrano/Bjugstad-McCann-Brouwer
Mamin-Lammhiko-Malgin

I’m willing to experiment a little with the D just to see. With how it’s been lately I’m not opposed to trying new things for a short while.

Yandle-Weegar
Kiselevich-Ekblad
Matheson-Petroviv

I like it
 

zeroG

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Jul 5, 2006
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But it isnt.

The whole team isnt getting outplayed.

We are getting beat with our **** tier goaltending.

We are getting beat because of poor play by our D. It's also **** tier.

Scoring goals is clearly not the issue. If they adjust their style of play, let's say, promote tighter play by our D (less jump ins the O zone, promote glass and out), things can turn.

Our goaltending should progress to at least .900 save percentage. It SHOULD. Addressing the D issues should help with this. They need to know that our goalies are **** and they should focus on protecting them.

i'd agree. i think we all just needed to vent a bit.

this roster is better than the roster that went on a tear last season. it's disappointing that they seemingly haven't absorbed the lessons.

also liked the lines @FrolikFan67 posted.

need some grit and urgency in our game. and some accountability.
 

Asheville

Registered User
Feb 1, 2018
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Our goalies are James Reimer and Michael Hutchinson. NO TEAM WOULD SURVIVE WITH THAT TANDEM. The fact that every game has been a one-goal game is actually impressive. I have been negative about this organization for a long time, but even I think the good times will begin once No. 1 is back between the pipes. I'm surprised by how few of you realize how much goaltending like this can affect morale. When your offense pots 5 goals, and that's still not enough for a regulation win? That can create a lot of resentment towards the goalies, not to mention, a complete absence of confidence in their abilities.
 

letsgrowcactus

Registered User
Jan 21, 2017
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First - I’m not speaking for anyone else so a singular (fan, not fans) would be just fine. No need to generalize - you can point your finger at just me. I can handle it.

The huge point is that Lightning owners go out to get Yzerman, who builds a team where Marchessault is an extra - and who becomes one of our best! Talk about difference in drafting ability! We have Dale, who discards March for some unbelievably stupid reason. We have Dale, who won’t let go of Tippett or Borg or Noel or Bjugstad or anyone to shore up D or goalie. Instead he goes to the European leagues as if he were the only one looking there. And instead, he takes a goalie rejected by Winnipeg and not picked up by ANYONE on waivers, and now we have to use him as a starter.

This is the owners’ fault. I’m back to feeling exactly how I felt after the expansion draft. I don’t see a future because of the people in charge. Our best players are very good but if they don’t get the support any good players need, it’ll just be another frustrating failure.

The Capitals have a freaking excuse to start slow, but they are chugging along admirably. The Devils and Canes are supposed to be worse than us but hey - they aren’t. The Red Wings just beat us. Sabres, Canadiens and EVEN the freaking Senators are playing better than us. Boston keeps drafting great young players, we overrate ours and they end up as AHL lifers or on 4th lines as journeymen.

Where are at least the Tim Thomases and Eddie Belfours? Why NOT go after Panarin or Bobrovsky with a package of our supposedly talented recent draft picks?

Sorry. The same old crap year after year. This was supposed to be different. It isn’t.
I like Dale looking to Europe. It's a smart way to maybe get an edge in the cap world.

The problem is he loves bargain-bin shopping. And that's great as a secondary tool in bulding your team. Sure, scout the promising guys and sign them at bargain deals because sometimes you get a Marchessault. But you can't forget that you're bargain-bin shopping. For every great find, there'll be three or four pieces that are just okay or crap.

Signing Haapala didn't work out but it was a smart type of move - we didn't give up any assets and if it worked out, he would've been a cheap middle 6 forward. But we counted on him to become a middle 6 guy right away while he had zero NHL experience. Another of those many things that possibly cost us the playoffs.

Same with Kiselevich this year and I like the guy. We need to improve our top4 and we get a guy with zero NHL experience? If we were still rebuilding that's fine but we're supposed to be competing.

Anyway I don't think it's the issue of not having enough talent. The goaltending is what it is but the top9 is solid. The defence for all its flaws showed last year that they can be better than this. The special teams are killing us again and while they were horrendous to start last year, they were pretty good later in the season. They can play better than this. Just need to do it.
 

EnforceTheLaus

In the Year of Our Hatter
Nov 3, 2013
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The problem is he loves bargain-bin shopping. And that's great as a secondary tool in bulding your team. Sure, scout the promising guys and sign them at bargain deals because sometimes you get a Marchessault. But you can't forget that you're bargain-bin shopping. For every great find, there'll be three or four pieces that are just okay or crap.

That comes from ownership, Viola said he wants a budget championship team..Which is an oxymoron but it is what is is.
 

letsgrowcactus

Registered User
Jan 21, 2017
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That comes from ownership, Viola said he wants a budget championship team..Which is an oxymoron but it is what is is.
Didn't he say they were willing to spend in the offseason? I mean they spent about 7 mill on Hoffman and Hutchinson so obviously some spending was allowed but was it still somewhat limited by ownership?
We have the 12th highest cap hit at 78.1 million, in real money it's 76.4 mill... not bad, but there's still comfortably enough space for one more piece. So are we not allowed to spend by the ownership or is Tallon not willing to spend?

We should be in a decent shape both money and cap-wise next offseason - let's hope we're willing/allowed to do something with it.
 

pantherbot

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Didn't he say they were willing to spend in the offseason? I mean they spent about 7 mill on Hoffman and Hutchinson so obviously some spending was allowed but was it still somewhat limited by ownership?
We have the 12th highest cap hit at 78.1 million, in real money it's 76.4 mill... not bad, but there's still comfortably enough space for one more piece. So are we not allowed to spend by the ownership or is Tallon not willing to spend?

We should be in a decent shape both money and cap-wise next offseason - let's hope we're willing/allowed to do something with it.

I think ownership is and has always been a problem with this team. If it's not about spending money, it's about meddling.

Just look at what happened with gallant and the rowe debacle, all of that points to ownership. Same with the expansion fiasco.

Beyond just the salary cap, i wonder how much this team spends on everything else. There's so much more to just the player salaries. I don't know what boogie gets but you can bet we'd never spend up for a top tier coach. I remember reading somewhere that out scouting department is one of the lowest budget ones in the league. We never hear anything about any great or well known trainers or any money spent on training and wellness. We don't have a stable AHL affiliate and I don't recall us spending much there to bring in real vet guys to help out (look at what the leafs did with pickard).

What we hear about is the investments they are making in analytics which help save money. We hear about club red and flying buddha, which help make money. We hear more about commercial and condo developments than about the development of our own team.
 
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KW

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I like Dale looking to Europe. It's a smart way to maybe get an edge in the cap world.

The problem is he loves bargain-bin shopping. And that's great as a secondary tool in bulding your team. Sure, scout the promising guys and sign them at bargain deals because sometimes you get a Marchessault. But you can't forget that you're bargain-bin shopping. For every great find, there'll be three or four pieces that are just okay or crap.

Signing Haapala didn't work out but it was a smart type of move - we didn't give up any assets and if it worked out, he would've been a cheap middle 6 forward. But we counted on him to become a middle 6 guy right away while he had zero NHL experience. Another of those many things that possibly cost us the playoffs.

Same with Kiselevich this year and I like the guy. We need to improve our top4 and we get a guy with zero NHL experience? If we were still rebuilding that's fine but we're supposed to be competing.

Anyway I don't think it's the issue of not having enough talent. The goaltending is what it is but the top9 is solid. The defence for all its flaws showed last year that they can be better than this. The special teams are killing us again and while they were horrendous to start last year, they were pretty good later in the season. They can play better than this. Just need to do it.
Tallon isn’t the only one with scouts in Europe. LOL. In fact, most other teams have better scouts in Europe than we do. That means, to be exact, that people passed up on Tallon’s selections. Europe isn’t some kind of a secret nobody knows of in the NHL.

So while Tallon is picking the Tippetts and Crouses and Hawryluks of the world and trying to impress with the Kiseleviches of Russia, Yzerman gets Johnson and Point and Cirelli and Gourde. And Tallon occasionally gets totally lucky with a Weegar in the seventh round but doesn’t recognize it.

While the panthers let other teams come back from 3 goal deficits in the second period, Tampa peppers the blackhawks with most ever shots in NHL history in one period (the second). Why? Because they can. And while Tallon and the owners go get a DeBoer sidekick as a coach, they let Julien and Boucher etc go find their new homes unchallenged.

If Tallon is such a Europe expert why didn’t he go get a real goalie instead of a waiver reject who’s now our starter?

Unbelievable.
 

letsgrowcactus

Registered User
Jan 21, 2017
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Tallon isn’t the only one with scouts in Europe. LOL. In fact, most other teams have better scouts in Europe than we do. That means, to be exact, that people passed up on Tallon’s selections. Europe isn’t some kind of a secret nobody knows of in the NHL.

So while Tallon is picking the Tippetts and Crouses and Hawryluks of the world and trying to impress with the Kiseleviches of Russia, Yzerman gets Johnson and Point and Cirelli and Gourde. And Tallon occasionally gets totally lucky with a Weegar in the seventh round but doesn’t recognize it.

While the panthers let other teams come back from 3 goal deficits in the second period, Tampa peppers the blackhawks with most ever shots in NHL history in one period (the second). Why? Because they can. And while Tallon and the owners go get a DeBoer sidekick as a coach, they let Julien and Boucher etc go find their new homes unchallenged.

If Tallon is such a Europe expert why didn’t he go get a real goalie instead of a waiver reject who’s now our starter?

Unbelievable.
Where did I say that?

I said it's smart to sign these guys from Europe or UFAs, but you have to recognize the risk, which is something Tallon failed to do. He goes "bargain bin shopping" hoping to fill the big holes and that might work sometimes but more often you get burned. I don't know how much that's on him because he's unwilling to part with assets or if it's on the ownership as some suggested refusing to give him money. Either way it's a problem.
 

RogerRoger

Registered User
Jul 23, 2013
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i'd agree. i think we all just needed to vent a bit.
this roster is better than the roster that went on a tear last season. it's disappointing that they seemingly haven't absorbed the lessons.
This roster isn't better, our goalies are bad. Reimer is at -1.69 GSAA and Hutch is at -2.21 in just a handful of games.
When we lost every game by a goal, the goalies being below average is a killing blow.

Didn't he say they were willing to spend in the offseason? I mean they spent about 7 mill on Hoffman and Hutchinson so obviously some spending was allowed but was it still somewhat limited by ownership?
We have the 12th highest cap hit at 78.1 million, in real money it's 76.4 mill... not bad, but there's still comfortably enough space for one more piece. So are we not allowed to spend by the ownership or is Tallon not willing to spend?
We should be in a decent shape both money and cap-wise next offseason - let's hope we're willing/allowed to do something with it.
There's 1.5M in cap space. I'm not sure what you mean by "comfortably enough space for more pieces". Anything that fits in under 1.5M is the definition of bargain bin shopping.
 

letsgrowcactus

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Jan 21, 2017
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This roster isn't better, our goalies are bad. Reimer is at -1.69 GSAA and Hutch is at -2.21 in just a handful of games.
When we lost every game by a goal, the goalies being below average is a killing blow.


There's 1.5M in cap space. I'm not sure what you mean by "comfortably enough space for more pieces". Anything that fits in under 1.5M is the definition of bargain bin shopping.
I also said one more piece, not pieces. And okay, "comfortably enough" was an exaggeration but it was doable. We have McGinn taking up 3.3 mill. Get rid of that (cap dump trade with an asset), you have nearly 5 mill cap space. 5 mill is enough to get a solid second pairing defeceman. Or dump one of Petro/Pysyk on some desperate team and combined with that 1.5 mill, you once again clean enough cap space for a second pairing Dman.

Anyway the point was that the ownership is not willing to spend and I'm not sure I see that when I look at our offseason or this roster. Are they unwilling to spend money?
 

Gentle Man

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Nov 15, 2011
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I also said one more piece, not pieces. And okay, "comfortably enough" was an exaggeration but it was doable. We have McGinn taking up 3.3 mill. Get rid of that (cap dump trade with an asset), you have nearly 5 mill cap space. 5 mill is enough to get a solid second pairing defeceman. Or dump one of Petro/Pysyk on some desperate team and combined with that 1.5 mill, you once again clean enough cap space for a second pairing Dman.

Anyway the point was that the ownership is not willing to spend and I'm not sure I see that when I look at our offseason or this roster. Are they unwilling to spend money?

With this team, don't look at cap space or cap hit.

What matters is salary, meaning actual dollars paid out.

They are at 76.5, and that includes bonuses paid out. While it looks like are up against it cap wise, salary wise it's less.
 

vendetta

#CatsAreComing
Mar 22, 2011
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Meh I don’t mind hiding or limiting Hoffman’s ice time til he gets his bearings here. It’s the least of our problems. They gotta get the pp and goaltending sorted
 

letsgrowcactus

Registered User
Jan 21, 2017
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With this team, don't look at cap space or cap hit.

What matters is salary, meaning actual dollars paid out.

They are at 76.5, and that includes bonuses paid out. While it looks like are up against it cap wise, salary wise it's less.
I did. We're nowhere near the top with Washington paying crazy money like 92 million, but we're not complete "outcasts" either.
Per Capfriendly, there are twelve teams that (as to today) are expected to spend 80 or more millions in salary this year. Less than that in order:

Calgary 79.3
Philly 79.1
Pittsburgh 78.1
Rangers 77.8
Boston 77.4
Vegas 76.9
FLORIDA 76.4
Nashville 76.0
Vancouver 75.8
Winnipeg 74.3
Montreal 74.6
Islanders 73.9
Columbus 72.9
Colorado 70.7
Ottawa 69.7
Toronto 68.2
Devils 64.9
Arizona 64.8
Carolina 63.6

Toronto and Winnipeg have huge extensions coming so they'll jump us very soon (then again, haven't checked which teams have big money coming off the books so someone will undoubtedly move down the list as well...)
 

letsgrowcactus

Registered User
Jan 21, 2017
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All I have to say is trading for Hoffman and then putting him on the fourth line is plain stupid.
Agreed but where do you put him? I would keep the Trocheck line like this for now which leaves lines 1 and 3. If we move Hoffman up, who gets bumped down?
 

IceManCat

#TheFloridaPanthers
Jul 13, 2006
6,106
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The Rat Den
It's not about the coach.

No fans and no media coverage. No one cares about them and about how bad they are and they've been.

Lose 10 in row and no one is going to talk about it.

Lose 10 in a row in Montreal? Players are scared to come out of their house.



It'll never be like here and that's probably a good thing plenty of players avoid Montreal/Toronto for a reason
 
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