Post-Game Talk: Yikes

[Gentle Man]

 

[23YearsandCounting]

This organization is a joke. Losing culture is all this group knows. Tallon has the pieces to make a deal to solidify the D and he doesn’t do Shit. The guy is a horrible GM.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

And I do worry about the future of this franchise if this current rebuild continues to go sideways.

This french fries deserves the GM it currently has because Dale-fans are still adamant that the success is right around the corner even though this bozo has been at the helm for eight years already and the team is still in the cellar. That Tom Rowe-debacle was exactly what Dale needed: an excuse to swipe his failures under the rug and get a somewhat clean slate to work with. Getting the same bozo back is such a joke. Viola failed big time there. I have no idea what Viola thought he was doing there, I'm actually surprised that he and his corporate lackey Cifu screwed up the mgmt change so badly that they had to scramble back for Dale. It's one big effin failure from top to bottom.

This team relies entirely on the production of Barkov and Trocheck i.e. if Barkov and Troch ain't feeling it, the team will can't find any goals apart from what goes behind Lu. And those two ain't no McJesus or Matthews either, just middle of the pack players in the category of 1st and 2nd line centers in the league. Hubs and Pukes fanboys are just out to lunch with their assessment that the former is some top20 winger in the league when he needs 1st line babysitter minutes, and Pukes goes invisible aka crawling on the ice for 5 games, scores one goal and fanboy section goes "whatta Bjeast!". Gimme a fookin' break. Replace Pukes with Seth Grittith and the team wouldn't miss a beat. How exactly some think that this guy is winning any board battles while eating the ice at the same time is beyond me.

 

[KW]

That’s funny and all, but actually, the sky IS falling right now.

There just aren’t any more excuses left when the team’s supposed to be good but is clearly outplayed by the likes of Detroit, Buffalo, Ottawa and Montreal.

If it was a one or two time bad start, yeah ok, chalk it up to Luongo. But it’s not. It’s virtually EVERY season. THIS was supposed to be different. But it’s not. Nothing left to be optimistic about anymore.

The sky is falling.

 

[Gentle Man]

That’s funny and all, but actually, the sky IS falling right now.

There just aren’t any more excuses left when the team’s supposed to be good but is clearly outplayed by the likes of Detroit, Buffalo, Ottawa and Montreal.

If it was a one or two time bad start, yeah ok, chalk it up to Luongo. But it’s not. It’s virtually EVERY season. THIS was supposed to be different. But it’s not. Nothing left to be optimistic about anymore.

The sky is falling.

But it isnt.

The whole team isnt getting outplayed.

We are getting beat with our shit tier goaltending.

We are getting beat because of poor play by our D. It's also shit tier.

Scoring goals is clearly not the issue. If they adjust their style of play, let's say, promote tighter play by our D (less jump ins the O zone, promote glass and out), things can turn.

Our goaltending should progress to at least .900 save percentage. It SHOULD. Addressing the D issues should help with this. They need to know that our goalies are shit and they should focus on protecting them.

 

[Ghoste]

Man it got bad in here. I get everyone is frustrated, I really do. I am too. About the only good thing I can say is that we've been in every game so far with mediocre goaltending, defense and horrible special teams. Fix that stuff up Bob.

Still can't get over Sasha's PS. A bump in the ice happens to be at the perfect spot and time when our most gifted forward goes to shoot? I'm sorry but it's like the stars & planets in the universe spread out for that one.

-ghoste

 

[KW]

But it isnt.

The whole team isnt getting outplayed.

We are getting beat with our **** tier goaltending.

We are getting beat because of poor play by our D. It's also **** tier.

Scoring goals is clearly not the issue. If they adjust their style of play, let's say, promote tighter play by our D (less jump ins the O zone, promote glass and out), things can turn.

Our goaltending should progress to at least .900 save percentage. It SHOULD. Addressing the D issues should help with this. They need to know that our goalies are **** and they should focus on protecting them.

Another year, another set of explanations. By now they all fall flat. The sky is falling.

All the naysayers, starting with the biggest bozo of them all, are unfortunately correct. This team sucks to the core.

If I truly cared at this point anymore, I’d wish for new owners and a new GM, but even that won’t matter because they just refuse to look upstate to the other side to see how a REAL hockey team is run. That’s where it all starts and that’s where the failure is predestined.

For some reason, the talents of Barkov, Trocheck, Borgstrom, Matheson etc etc are wasting away in this trash dump of the nhl. I’m sick and tired of the “25-year celebration” that recalls the one time we were a high level loser. I don’t want to hear about it anymore. It’s an embarrassment, not a point of celebration. This franchise is an embarrassment and I hate myself for liking certain players enough that I still remain a fan. I honestly don’t know how much longer though.

This team has this much to look forward to: .

 

[CHGoalie27]

Terrible

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

And this is the results I didn't want to see. People were complaining during the Gallant years, so I knew when that crap happened in the 2016 offseason, I didn't want to be around for the consequences of that, because this place would be very bad. This is part of the reason why I was trying to soften the blow before hand for when this situation came about.
You don't disregard the fragile nature of the process of a rebuild. The slightest misstep could have a huge impact. What they did in 2016 was like a Godzilla stepping into it, much less a slight misstep. That's why I said after that, all bets are off, this franchise is going to have to get lucky in order to become a contender, like they were headed for before all of that crap. You can make all the moves you want. Just another young Panthers core floating around mediocrity hoping to get lucky. And this franchise, of all franchises, really needed to get this rebuild right. There was no room for experimentation. They had to do a legit rebuild, for the first time. They had to see it all the way through. The whole reason why they turned it around in the first place was because they went to a defense first identity, and because they were true to the rebuild. Why would turning away from that do any good? Because they got Yandle and Demers? Yeah, that's what's going to turn them away from the history of failure of this franchise.
This is just history repeating itself, like I identified then. Ownership doing bad things, and therefore the franchise is held down in mediocrity or the bottom of the standings. Rebuild fails, young core doesn't get developed properly, start a new rebuild with a new GM, rinse and repeat. The same bad ownership that's the problem, is going to hire someone to fix the situation, not going to happen. This is the history of this franchise. That's why I was horrified to see history repeating itself.
Everybody goes off blaming the 1st round picks, when they are still young and in development, they're trying to find their identity as players, you need structure for that, and they are not getting it. Just like they've always done with young players in this franchise. This is the usual state of affairs of bad ownership. Rinse and repeat.

 

[RainingRats]

Everyone who is so bearish needs to relax. We've been in every game against very good and bad teams. We've been able to get leads I think in every game and we've scored first in almost every game. We're barely out of the playoffs with 93% of the season left. The sample size is not too useful.

We've shown great resiliency when down big. We've never been beaten badly, we're losing most of our games in 3 on 3 OT or the shootout. Every non OTL has been by one goal, all two of them...

We've started the season with a backup goalie and an AHL starter. Goalie is the most important position which we'll get upgraded soon.

We've been able to do that with horrible special teams and anti-clutch goaltending. Those are two huge things that could not be much worse. If they improve a small amount, we're going to start putting wins together. And if they can actually improve beyond just being not a detriment we're going to be a very good team.

 

[RainingRats]

And this is the results I didn't want to see. People were complaining during the Gallant years, so I knew when that crap happened in the 2016 offseason, I didn't want to be around for the consequences of that, because this place would be very bad. This is part of the reason why I was trying to soften the blow before hand for when this situation came about.
You don't disregard the fragile nature of the process of a rebuild. The slightest misstep could have a huge impact. What they did in 2016 was like a Godzilla stepping into it, much less a slight misstep. That's why I said after that, all bets are off, this franchise is going to have to get lucky in order to become a contender, like they were headed for before all of that crap. You can make all the moves you want. Just another young Panthers core floating around mediocrity hoping to get lucky. And this franchise, of all franchises, really needed to get this rebuild right. There was no room for experimentation. They had to do a legit rebuild, for the first time. They had to see it all the way through.
This is just history repeating itself, like I identified then. Ownership doing bad things, and therefore the franchise is held down in mediocrity or the bottom of the standings. Rebuild fails, young core doesn't get developed properly, start a new rebuild with a new GM, rinse and repeat. The same bad ownership that's the problem, is going to hire someone to fix the situation, not going to happen. This is the history of this franchise. That's why I was horrified to see history repeating itself.
Everybody goes off blaming the 1st round picks, when they are still young and in development, they're trying to find their identity as players, you need structure for that, and they are not getting it. Just like they've always done with young players in this franchise. This is the usual state of affairs of bad ownership. Rinse and repeat.

oh god, this agin. Please tell me which players we are missing from 2016 changes and who was screwed up by 2016. I'll wait.

Our core except for Ekblad and Matheson are playing extremely well. Ekblad is not living up to his draft position but he is a net positive.

If it's some answer about "change" then you have no argument.

 

[RainingRats]

Another year, another set of explanations. By now they all fall flat. The sky is falling.

All the naysayers, starting with the biggest bozo of them all, are unfortunately correct. This team sucks to the core.

If I truly cared at this point anymore, I’d wish for new owners and a new GM, but even that won’t matter because they just refuse to look upstate to the other side to see how a REAL hockey team is run. That’s where it all starts and that’s where the failure is predestined.

For some reason, the talents of Barkov, Trocheck, Borgstrom, Matheson etc etc are wasting away in this trash dump of the nhl. I’m sick and tired of the “25-year celebration” that recalls the one time we were a high level loser. I don’t want to hear about it anymore. It’s an embarrassment, not a point of celebration. This franchise is an embarrassment and I hate myself for liking certain players enough that I still remain a fan. I honestly don’t know how much longer though.

This team has this much to look forward to: .

6 games in, Panther fans declare season over!

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

oh god, this agin. Please tell me which players we are missing from the rebuild. I'll wait.

Our core except for Ekblad and Matheson are playing extremely well. Ekblad is not living up to his draft position but he is a net positive.

If it's some answer about "change" then you have no argument.

This again? Show me where this team has gone anywhere other than where I said this was headed. This is why people are freaking out now, it's just that I freaked out then.
The reason why this team turned things around in the first place was because they went defense first. It wasn't because of who the players were. Everybody has talent in this league, what separates teams is who knows what to do with that talent. That's it. We've had players play well for us before, it takes more than that. It takes committing to a proper rebuild and seeing all the way through. It takes picking the right team identity in during that rebuild that fits your core players and sticking with that. That's it.
You get your core, you get your identity, and then you let that take the time in needs to settle into the teams' DNA. You don't need all of these fancy showy moves. You make moves along the way, but they're usually very subtle. But people, fans especially, can't handle the situation developing like that, they have do something, can't take it, they get jumpy, they need to make some big grandiose move. And ownership is just another fan, that's why they do bad decisions, and why fans love the way ownership goes about their business, because that's just what fans would do. But serious franchises that want to get to the top don't about doing things in that way.

 

[RainingRats]

The reason why this team turned things around in the first place was because they went defense first. It wasn't because of who the players were. Everybody has talent in this league, what separates teams is who knows what to do with that talent. That's it. We've had players play well for us before, it takes more than that. It takes committing to a proper rebuild and seeing all the way through. It takes picking the right team identity in during that rebuild that fits your core players and sticking with that. That's it.
You get your core, you get your identity, and then you let that take the time in needs to settle into the teams' DNA. You don't need all of these fancy showy moves. You make moves along the way, but they're usually very subtle. But people, fans especially, can't handle the situation developing like that, they have do something, can't take it, they get jumpy, they need to make some big grandiose move. And ownership is just another fan, that's why they do bad decisions, and why fans love the way ownership goes about their business, because that's just what fans would do. But serious franchises that want to get to the top don't about doing things in that way.

What defense first players are we missing? The only changes are Mitchell - retired. Gudbranson - too expensive in cap era and good trade. Kulikov - too expensive in cap era and maybe a bad move, unnecessary to extend Pysyk imo but hindsight 20/20. Matheson is a core piece, drafted by Tallon, who is supposed to be a top 4 guy and he sucks to start the season again. Ekblad has not lived up to his draft position, drafted by Tallon. Or are you talking about guys like Howden, Shaw, Grimaldi, etc?

Our "rebuild" has been seen through. The original architect has every single player from his core. He also hired Gallant's replacement so your argument makes no sense. Issue is some of the core drafted players, specifically Ekblad and Matheson, have not lived up to their expectations. Tallon not investing in a younger goaltending prospect and drafting slow big d-men was another issue. But no rebuild is going to be perfect. Additionally, prospects have been given time to develop.

I don't know what fancy showy moves means. That's not a valid criticism. Do you mean locking up the core at a ridiculously low rate? Barkov could easily be a 10-12 million dollar a year player. Trocheck could easily be a 7-9 million dollar a year player.

Your criticism has no examples, lots of philosophical statements that don't reflect reality.

Sounds like your complaint is more rooted in Tallon's drafting and coaching selection.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

What defense first players are we missing? The only changes are Mitchell - retired. Gudbranson - too expensive in cap era and good trade. Kulikov - too expensive in cap era and maybe a bad move, unnecessary to extend Pysyk imo but hindsight 20/20. Matheson is a core piece, drafted by Tallon, who is supposed to be a top 4 guy and he sucks to start the season again. Ekblad has not lived up to his draft position, drafted by Tallon. Or are you talking about guys like Howden, Shaw, Grimaldi, etc?

Our "rebuild" has been seen through. The original architect has every single player from his core. He also hired Gallant's replacement so your argument makes no sense. Issue is some of the core drafted players, specifically Ekblad and Matheson, have not lived up to their expectations. Tallon not investing in a younger goaltending prospect and drafting slow big d-men was another issue. But no rebuild is going to be perfect. Additionally, prospects have been given time to develop.

I don't know what fancy showy moves means. That's not a valid criticism. Do you mean locking up the core at a ridiculously low rate? Barkov could easily be a 10-12 million dollar a year player. Trocheck could easily be a 7-9 million dollar a year player.

Your criticism has no examples, lots of philosophical statements that don't reflect reality.

Sounds like your complaint is more rooted in Tallon's drafting and coaching selection.

It's style of play. Not the players. That, defense first. I've said this many times before. You keep harping on that to keep an argument going, or maybe you just can't remember, I don't know. Now maybe if they would have drafted a bunch of speed demons at the top of the draft then maybe they should have to choose a different style of play. But that's not the situation. The rebuild was not seen through. The core players were not developed yet. They had not let the team identity sink in.
And like I said before, after the 2016 offseason, all bets are off. Doesn't matter who you hire or fire, what moves you make, it's going to take luck to get this core into contender status.
And oh, you mean there was no showy moves? You mean nobody was in here during the 2016 talking about how this was the greatest offfseason in franchise history? Clearly there was a lot of spotlight moves, everybody was talking about what was going on down in South Florida. But no, it's was just like any other team does every offseason, nothing happened. And that was specifically to change the style of play. I could see if they were upgrading to play a defense first style better.
So looking at these little moves here and there doesn't mean anything. I've said before, it's going to always be something that's an issue. You going to be sitting for the next 20 years talking about well this one thing here went wrong this season, then the next season, this one thing here went wrong, and so on and so forth. They're just symptoms, the source is the rebuild and following through on that.

 

[RainingRats]

It's style of play. Not the players. That, defense first. I've said this many times before. You keep harping on that to keep an argument going, or maybe you just can't remember, I don't know. Now maybe if they would have drafted a bunch of speed demons at the top of the draft then maybe they should have to choose a different style of play. But that's not the situation. The rebuild was not seen through. The core players were not developed yet. They had not let the team identity sink in.
And like I said before, after the 2016 offseason, all bets are off. Doesn't matter who you hire or fire, what moves you make, it's going to take luck to get this core into contender status.
And oh, you mean there was no showy moves? You mean nobody was in here during the 2016 talking about how this was the greatest offfseason in franchise history? Clearly there was a lot of spotlight moves, everybody was talking about what was going on down in South Florida. But no, it's was just like any other team does every offseason, nothing happened. And that was specifically to change the style of play. I could see if they were upgrading to play a defense first style better.
So looking at these little moves here and there doesn't mean anything. I've said before, it's going to always be something that's an issue. You going to be sitting for the next 20 years talking about well this one thing here went wrong this season, then the next season, this one thing here went wrong, and so on and so forth. They're just symptoms, the source is the rebuild and following through on that.

We're fine 5 on 5 defensively. If we can keep the games 5 on 5, we're easily a playoff team. The issue is special teams. That's where we are losing games. How does "defense first" apply to the PK and PP???

Speed demons? You're saying because we're slow (we're not) we need to play defense first? You can't win games 1-0 anymore. It's too hard. This isn't the dead puck era.

This team showed post January we can win with this roster, coaching, and system. We had one of the best records in the league. To say we're playing the wrong style, have the wrong players, or the wrong coach, has been proven wrong. We barely missed the playoffs but also showed for a good stretch of time how good this team can be.

So it's clear "showy moves" is not a valid criticism.

You still haven't made a valid criticism of the rebuild or explained how it wasn't followed through.

 

[FLpanthers16]

Like i said on the main board thread but with a diffrent set of games. 6 games season is over i guess, played hockey for way to long to panic specially when we should have at least two more wins with a decent goalie.

 

[FrolikFan67]

I’m not fretting just yet. It’s mainly the goaltending, which will get better once Luongo is back. Defensive mistakes, which we’ll get better at. And the pp, which it can’t possibly be this bad all year long, too much talent. But they need to figure it out and not dig toooo much of a hole. Yes they’re leaving valuable points on the table but there’s wayyyyy too many games left to play to worry. If we’re still like this at the half way mark then ok. It’s just frustrating though.

They need to figure out goaltending after this season and to make a play for a strong top-4 D.

 

[ScottyMascotty]

Somehow this thread turned into the most depressing and pessimistic place on the whole boards.

 

[Ratsreign]

Well, at least they don't fold up and quit after they blow a multi-goal lead...they've fought back to salvage something.
And at least blowing leads in the second leaves them time to come back....

Can't wait to see the PP when they stop thinking and just start doing....
I guess it's better to be frustrated with these self inflicted problems rather than, as so often in the past, the fact that they just plain suck.
They can sort out what is killing them right now. Better not take too long, though. Lol, and maybe change up whatever the hell is going on during the first intermission.

 

[KW]

6 games in, Panther fans declare season over!

First - I’m not speaking for anyone else so a singular (fan, not fans) would be just fine. No need to generalize - you can point your finger at just me. I can handle it.

The huge point is that Lightning owners go out to get Yzerman, who builds a team where Marchessault is an extra - and who becomes one of our best! Talk about difference in drafting ability! We have Dale, who discards March for some unbelievably stupid reason. We have Dale, who won’t let go of Tippett or Borg or Noel or Bjugstad or anyone to shore up D or goalie. Instead he goes to the European leagues as if he were the only one looking there. And instead, he takes a goalie rejected by Winnipeg and not picked up by ANYONE on waivers, and now we have to use him as a starter.

This is the owners’ fault. I’m back to feeling exactly how I felt after the expansion draft. I don’t see a future because of the people in charge. Our best players are very good but if they don’t get the support any good players need, it’ll just be another frustrating failure.

The Capitals have a freaking excuse to start slow, but they are chugging along admirably. The Devils and Canes are supposed to be worse than us but hey - they aren’t. The Red Wings just beat us. Sabres, Canadiens and EVEN the freaking Senators are playing better than us. Boston keeps drafting great young players, we overrate ours and they end up as AHL lifers or on 4th lines as journeymen.

Where are at least the Tim Thomases and Eddie Belfours? Why NOT go after Panarin or Bobrovsky with a package of our supposedly talented recent draft picks?

Sorry. The same old crap year after year. This was supposed to be different. It isn’t.

 

[Jakeybonz]

Somehow this thread turned into the most depressing and pessimistic place on the whole boards.

somehow? u mean continuing to be the worst team in nhl history qualifies as somehow? and no its not 6 games in. its 25 seasons in. this team has never had what i would call a good roster literally ever. not when they lucked their way to the cup final, not in 15-16, not ever. an argument could be made for the 99-2000 roster being pretty good, sort of. but that was by far the best roster weve ever had. people claiming this one is the best are just crazy. they see barkov and trochek and are blinded to the fact we have one of the worst D cores in the nhl. that makes it a bad roster no matter who else we have. and im not a naysayer. im just a sayer.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

It’s not who is playing... the talent is clearly there. It is the way we play.

We lack strategy. We lack grit. We lack focus. We lack determination.

I don’t know how many different coaches this team needs to play the game the right way.

The way they are playing is the wrong way. In almost every facet.

This is arguably the most talented roster the organization has ever assembled. To score 4 goals and lose. To have multi goal leads and blow it...unacceptable.

 

[vendetta]

3 points in the b2b. That’s good. Team
Is
Starting to put points together. No one has beat us. It’s still ourselves making stupid mistakes to cost us games. Those will fade out. Goaltending is a problem but this team has shown it’s mentally strong to keep getting the games to ot at the least and get points. Things r looking up. When matheson yandle amd Hoffman start playing better this team could be potent. I see the upside
Here and am in no way disappointed or even worried one bit. I’ve actually been encouraged that this team is good enough to be getting points and In every game with all the shit that has went on. This is the nhl. Detroit was desperate and they also have professional pride. There will be losses. There will be beatdowns. There will be beatdowns to what people say r bad teams but this is an 82 game season and there are
No bad teams or easy wins. This team will be in a playoff spot at the end of the year

 

[FrolikFan67]

We could use a little more grit and physicality at the moment. Sceviour to the 2nd was the right move, Brouwer deserves to be in the top-9 atm. While the first line is working I’d still like to try Hoffman there and see how it works for two or three games.

Hoffman-Barkov-Dadonov
Huberdeau-Sceviour-Trocheck
Vatrano/Bjugstad-McCann-Brouwer
Mamin-Lammhiko-Malgin

I’m willing to experiment a little with the D just to see. With how it’s been lately I’m not opposed to trying new things for a short while.

Yandle-Weegar
Kiselevich-Ekblad
Matheson-Petroviv