WWE: WWE Network and Business Thread III [network count a "genuine disappointment"]

[scrubadam]

I think if WWE actually taught these guys how to handle a mic and work a crowd the viewership would not only go up but it would stay up. It's become a long forgotten art form and I can honestly say whenever someone like Charlotte comes out and speaks I just hit the mute button and wait for her lips to stop moving.

Cena, Haitch, Jericho, Rollins, Miz, Enzo are the ONLY talent that can come out and deliver 5 minutes worth of talking without looking like a complete freaking idiot. Ambrose, Styles, Owens and Ziggler have their very good moments too but it's not at those levels. It's not like the writing is that good either. As pertains to Raw in the 3rd hour we often get someone to come out and speak but even if it's any of those guys I really just don't care. The ONLY person I would actually stick around for is Jericho.

All Rollins does is whine, Haitch drones about the same crap about himself we've been listening to his whole career, Enzo follows a script, Owens looks like he can't figure out what he's supposed to be doing and I haven't cared what a guy like Paul Heyman has to say about BAAAARRROOOCCCCKKKKKK LEZZZNUURRRR for 15 years and I could care less for Goldberg.

Want people to stick around for that 3rd hour? Bring someone in who can actually hold the audience's attention while using the art of comedy. Guys like the Rock, Jericho and prime John Cena could've done stand up for a living.

I think its more a lifestyle think. Back in the day most wrestlers were believable as tough guy larger than life people. They just had this aura about them. Now adays most wrestlers are just geeks who hit the gym. Some don't even hit the gym that hard.

Also not many guys today have a character. Not a gimmick, but a different voice when they are wrestling. Look at guys like Savage or Ventura. They were colorful, over the top, they had a distintive voice and personality. It all lead into the total package and made people, even casuals pay attention. Rollins or KO just talk like normal people and dress like normal people.

Last thing is back in the day in the territories you need to have a great story, and to talk crowds into the stadium. Now a days in indies (or non WWE) the best wrestlers are the guys who put on 5 star matchs. Its not about building a long term story, or cutting great promos. Hogan/Ventura/Billy Graham wouldn't survive in the independant scene today because its all about MOTYC and "this is awesome" not fooling the fans to be emotionally invested in a character or storyline. I think most indy fans know its fake and don't care about wins or losses just how many snowflakes the match has.

 

[These Are The Days]

Ambrose is better than Rollins on the mic when he's not playing goofy Ambrose. He's probably one of the top talkers.

Enzo has never cut a promo with any substance; he's a walking catchphrase.

But he's almost never not goofy Ambrose. That's a lot of the problem. He sometimes seems to have a little bit of trouble fitting in with the "watered down" promo nature of WWE as a babyface. He's got good stuff but I can't ever recall a time he knocked me dead like in the Moxley days. If this was 2003 and he had the same liberties on the mic as John Cena did in his Vanilla Ice days I'm sure he could've transcended wrestling itself. But as of right now I see a guy with a big leash on his neck and a lot of times he's just choking out the words.

As for Enzo he's a catchphrase but he can pop some real good stuff off. I'm sure you can remember this from last year



Maybe I just don't have faith but I can tell you right now that WWE creative didn't come up with a lick of this

 

[These Are The Days]

I think its more a lifestyle think. Back in the day most wrestlers were believable as tough guy larger than life people. They just had this aura about them. Now adays most wrestlers are just geeks who hit the gym. Some don't even hit the gym that hard.

Also not many guys today have a character. Not a gimmick, but a different voice when they are wrestling. Look at guys like Savage or Ventura. They were colorful, over the top, they had a distintive voice and personality. It all lead into the total package and made people, even casuals pay attention. Rollins or KO just talk like normal people and dress like normal people.

Last thing is back in the day in the territories you need to have a great story, and to talk crowds into the stadium. Now a days in indies (or non WWE) the best wrestlers are the guys who put on 5 star matchs. Its not about building a long term story, or cutting great promos. Hogan/Ventura/Billy Graham wouldn't survive in the independant scene today because its all about MOTYC and "this is awesome" not fooling the fans to be emotionally invested in a character or storyline. I think most indy fans know its fake and don't care about wins or losses just how many snowflakes the match has.

Being 2017 I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to ask for great matches every night in the advent of athletes being in better physical condition than at any point in the history of wrestling. Then comes the "but" and I hate having to do it but back in the height of the Monday Night Wars we didn't have the performers we do now. But WCW/WWF got huge ratings because their wrestlers got by on their connection with the audience. People had so much emotional investment in the characters. I can honestly say the only emotional investment people have anymore is the universal hatred of Roman Reigns. And it's a sad fact but ANYONE here (including myself) can come up with better promos and smack talk than what WWE gives to these guys.

I mean this both in jest and seriously... sufferin succotash!

 

[M.C.G. 31]

The difference between promos back then and promos today is that the talents are loaded on cocaine and no sleep anymore.

 

[Emperoreddy]

People don't remember the joy of a coked out Hogan promo talking about sinking the Trump plaza and dog paddling to save Trump and the audience from the sharks.

WCW Hulk was mellow as hell.

The guy who come closest to cutting 80s promos is Rusev. He has that shoutty heel promo down.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

As for Enzo he's a catchphrase but he can pop some real good stuff off. I'm sure you can remember this from last year



Maybe I just don't have faith but I can tell you right now that WWE creative didn't come up with a lick of this

The Rock was a catchphrase too.

Enzo is becoming a joke/jobber though. I know he's not great in the ring and his future is probably as a manager but they need to do more with him than just 'Enzo runs his mouth, gets beat up and then here comes Cass for the save'

Stupid angles like the Lana one doesn't help his case either.

 

[DenisSamson3]

Are google shopping searches typically way off?

 

[Kimi]

Depends on a lot of factors (like all data collecting), but if you make use of Google stats correctly they're very good.

 

[These Are The Days]

The Rock was a catchphrase too.

Enzo is becoming a joke/jobber though. I know he's not great in the ring and his future is probably as a manager but they need to do more with him than just 'Enzo runs his mouth, gets beat up and then here comes Cass for the save'

Stupid angles like the Lana one doesn't help his case either.

I can agree with this. Rightfully so I think WWE has been gun shy about pushing him and Cass because of how they're seemingly tied at the hip. But in the meantime I've noticed that their heat is starting to cool off a little bit and I think a lot of it is due to their systematic/redundant nature with the same promos and matches. They have potential to be one of the most popular tag teams in WWE history but they're not gonna do it by Enzo delivering the same promo every night. They've got to let Enzo free wheel on the mic and have more liberties outside of the "SAWFT" speech. Do that for a few months then I can almost promise that the positive heat they'd generate would be nuclear again. They remind me so much of the New Age Outlaws due to their mannerisms, catchphrases and the fact they're not the most talented wrestlers in the world. But the Outlaws were great because they were fun above anything else. Enzo and Cass are fun too and they're about the only guys in WWE who can get the audience involved anymore. But I fear these guys are gonna burn right out if something doesn't change. You have to mix it up sometimes. No offense to Enzo and Cass but they're DAMN SURE not popular because of their ring work. It's because they connect with the fans.

It's an ironic relationship because because Cass will only go as far as Enzo let's him and vice versa. Let one do the mouth work and the other do the ring work. But I think also ironically Enzo is wasted as a manager. No offense to WWE but the manager angle went bye bye like 10 years ago and I don't think fans take it seriously. The last time they did was when Heyman debuted Lesnar. The rest were just laughable like Armando Estrada when he debuted Umaga

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I can agree with this. Rightfully so I think WWE has been gun shy about pushing him and Cass because of how they're seemingly tied at the hip. But in the meantime I've noticed that their heat is starting to cool off a little bit and I think a lot of it is due to their systematic/redundant nature with the same promos and matches. They have potential to be one of the most popular tag teams in WWE history but they're not gonna do it by Enzo delivering the same promo every night. They've got to let Enzo free wheel on the mic and have more liberties outside of the "SAWFT" speech. Do that for a few months then I can almost promise that the positive heat they'd generate would be nuclear again. They remind me so much of the New Age Outlaws due to their mannerisms, catchphrases and the fact they're not the most talented wrestlers in the world. But the Outlaws were great because they were fun above anything else. Enzo and Cass are fun too and they're about the only guys in WWE who can get the audience involved anymore. But I fear these guys are gonna burn right out if something doesn't change. You have to mix it up sometimes. No offense to Enzo and Cass but they're DAMN SURE not popular because of their ring work. It's because they connect with the fans.

It's an ironic relationship because because Cass will only go as far as Enzo let's him and vice versa. Let one do the mouth work and the other do the ring work. But I think also ironically Enzo is wasted as a manager. No offense to WWE but the manager angle went bye bye like 10 years ago and I don't think fans take it seriously. The last time they did was when Heyman debuted Lesnar. The rest were just laughable like Armando Estrada when he debuted Umaga

The manager angle is still a viable role if they're presented appropriately. Heyman is evidence of that. If you're going to be a manager these days, the person you stick him with has to be booked like a legitimate player and not a joke. Colter was working until Swagger messed up and got his push set aside. The managers that don't work anymore are the Jimmy Hart-type guys that are just set up in the midcard and are only there to be a spot for humor.

 

[Kimi]

I feel sorry for Enzo if he has to hook his career to Cass's ring work.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I feel sorry for Enzo if he has to hook his career to Cass's ring work.

Given the tendencies of Vince to push people like Cass, it's not a horrible bet to make. lol

 

[These Are The Days]

I feel sorry for Enzo if he has to hook his career to Cass's ring work.

You can say that again!

 

[scrubadam]

I actually think Enzo is what WWE needs more of. If he was a bit bigger he could be a break out star.

He has a distinct look, completely buys into his gimmick and lives it. I totally believe that the real Enzo is the Enzo we see on TV and not some basement dwelling geek who watched back yard wrestling and decided to become a wrestler.

WWE needs more characters like Enzo to catch casuals. I am not talking stupid gimmicks like IRS or repo man, but larger than life characters like the Savages/Perfects/Hogas/Venturas of the world. Guys who you entertain you on one hand, but not someone you would want to meet in a back alley on the other hand.

 

[Virtanen18]

Only on the computer. Not on apps on streaming services like Apple TV, a game console, etc., at least not in Canada AFAIK.

Your carrier account doesn't carry over with your WWE account to those services. At least not for me, and last I emailed them, they said it could only be accessed on the site.

That's ridiculous. Perhaps try signing up from a different "location"? I share my cousin's account from England and have zero issues using the Network on Playstations, Xboxs, etc.

Tbh though, sometimes I wish I could just watch the WWE Network channel we have on our TVs.

 

[Paris in Flames]

I feel sorry for Enzo if he has to hook his career to Cass's ring work.

Why? Cass's ring work is better than Enzo's ring work.

 

[Kimi]

Why? Cass's ring work is better than Enzo's ring work.

Yeah, but so is everyone else's.

Cass is really bad. His only point of value is that he's tall, and that's only got value to Vince. So if you want to hook your self to anything of Cass's, it should be his looks (and he's really not attractive anyway, Lana got it right when she got with Rusev).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yeah, but so is everyone else's.

Cass is really bad. His only point of value is that he's tall, and that's only got value to Vince. So if you want to hook your self to anything of Cass's, it should be his looks (and he's really not attractive anyway, Lana got it right when she got with Rusev).

Enzo is really bad. I wouldn't classify Cass as really bad but he is limited.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

4th quarter call -

- Revenue is the highest in company history. International revenue is also the highest in company history.

- Vince claims that many people are watching "nothing more than the WWE Network".

- Vince and Barrios said they're "super serving" their most passionate fans as they'll watch anything they throw at them on the network.

- WWE is considering a weekly UK show.

- Barrios doesn't expect advertising to increase on the network because they believe the best approach is to super serve their audience.

- They consider the brand split a success as Smackdown has more viewers now and used Roman Reigns as an example that when/if he appears on SD, it'll be a big deal. He said it gives talents an opportunity to rise up on their respective brand and said SD viewership has increased (it has) while Raw has declined (it has) but compared it to NFL ratings also decreasing on Mondays.

4th quarter 2016 earnings vs. 2015 -

- Total Net Revenues increased to $194.9-million in Q4-16 from $166.2-million in Q4-15 (+17.27%). Biggest gainer in the media division was television, as 2016 saw a $68.6M number whereas 2015 saw $55.6M for Q4.

- Total Operating Income is $13.9M in Q4-16 compared to -$1.5m in Q4-15. Total adjusted OIBDA is $20.5M for Q4-16 compared to $11.1M for Q4-15.

- Europe/Middle East/Africa was the only region to decline from the 2015 number. North America, Asia Pacific and Latin America all saw increases from Q4-2015 -> Q4-2016.

- Live Event revenues increased 16%, largely due to a 9% increase in ticket prices across the board in North America, including events like Wrestlemania. They also added 21 events, helped by the brand split to run a live event on Monday nights for the Smackdown brand.

- On that note, live event attendance is down 15% YOY. Fans are leaving the product, but the ones who are sticking around are willing to spend more money on the company.

WWE Network Subscriber number -

- Ending Total Subscribers for Q4-16: 1.473-million.
- Ending Total Paid Subscribers: 1.403-million.

- U.S. subscribers: 1.033-million.
- Int'l subscribers: 370,000.

- Subscriber base is flat. It's not growing. They actually lost subscribers from Q3-16 (1.487-million) to Q4-16 and this was with offering the free trial including Goldberg's return at Survivor Series. They were at 1.6-million earlier in the year too.

**

It appears WWE is losing quite a bit of their numbers domestically, attendance-wise, and WWE is running more International tours to offset the losses but this isn't sustainable long-term.

NA region gain in Q4 comes after losing $7-million from the market in Q3-16 compared to Q3-15.

Unsurprisingly, over 50% of their revenue comes from TV and the network.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here own any shares in WWE?

 

[Virtanen18]

- They consider the brand split a success as Smackdown has more viewers now and used Roman Reigns as an example that when/if he appears on SD, it'll be a big deal. He said it gives talents an opportunity to rise up on their respective brand and said SD viewership has increased (it has) while Raw has declined (it has) but compared it to NFL ratings also decreasing on Mondays.

Total delusion.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

That's ridiculous. Perhaps try signing up from a different "location"? I share my cousin's account from England and have zero issues using the Network on Playstations, Xboxs, etc.

Tbh though, sometimes I wish I could just watch the WWE Network channel we have on our TVs.

I finally got a response to my email about it -

Dear Michael,

Thank you for contacting WWE Network Support.

I understand that you wanted to access the Network using your Apple TV. I am sorry to say Apple TV App access for Canadian subscribers is not yet supported. You can access the WWE Network through your Computer/Laptop and Android Mobile App. Kindly visit wwe.com/activate to link your cable subscription to your wwe.com account.

If further assistance is needed, please feel free to reply to this
email, speak with WWE Network Support by calling 1-866-308-5684
(available weekdays 2 PM - 11 PM EST), or use our convenient Live
Chat feature.

Sincerely,

WWE Network Support

The closest I can get to the full on-demand library without just using my laptop is accessing it on my iPhone and mirroring it to my Apple TV.

 

[Virtanen18]

I finally got a response to my email about it -



The closest I can get to the full on-demand library without just using my laptop is accessing it on my iPhone and mirroring it to my Apple TV.

What if you spoof your Apple TV location to access the American app store, where the app is?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here own any shares in WWE?

Hell no.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hell no.

If you play it right, WWE is actually a fairly stable stock option to make money off of as long as you play the trends. They tend to peak at Mania and Summerslam and drop off soon after that. But it's certainly not something you're going to really make money at by holding onto it long-term.