Confirmed Trade: [WPG/MTL] Joel Armia, Steve Mason, 2020 4th & 2019 7th to Habs for Simon Bourque

[ohmyjlord]

If you wanted to make this kind of deal, as a rebuilding team, you aim for 1st round pick or second, even by adding a 3rd or 4th from your own. There is absolute no point in trying to hit a homerun with 4-7th picks. Most of the time only top10 picks pan out as an impact player.

While they might not all be 'impact players' per say, there are still many players taken in the 4th round that becomes fine NHL regulars every year. Johnny Gaudreau, Alexei Zhamnov, Jere Lehtinen, Milan Hejduk, Viktor Arvidsson, Marc Savard, Eric Daze, Ryan Callahan, Mike Knuble, Sami Kapanen, Gustav Nyquist, Michal Handzus, Shawn Horcoff, Craig Smith, Vladimir Sobotka, Joonas Donskoi, Andreas Anthanasiou, Jean-Gabriel Pargeau, Eric Belanger, Casey Cizikas, Tobias Rieder, Ryan Malone, Matthew Barnaby, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Nikolay Borchevsky, Josh Anderson, Shawn Bates, Colton Sceviour, Tyler Kennedy, Jamal Mayers, Keith Yandle, Alexei Zhitnik, Igor Kravchuk, Lubomir Visnovsky, T.J. Brodie, Mathias Ekholm, Jacob Slavin, Sami Vatanen, Christian Ehrhoff, David Savard, Robert Svehla, Alec Martinez, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Michael Rozsival, Tom Gilbert, Toni Lydman, Joe Corvo, Jan Hedja, Barden Holtby, Philipp Grubauer, Jusso Saros...they all went in the 4th round.

You just gotta pick the right one.
Why not take a chance ? Any of those players I would pick ahead of Simon Bourque, wouldn't you agree ?

 

[Zennon]

While they might not all be 'impact players' per say, there are still many players taken in the 4th round that becomes fine NHL regulars every year. Johnny Gaudreau, Alexei Zhamnov, Jere Lehtinen, Milan Hejduk, Viktor Arvidsson, Marc Savard, Eric Daze, Ryan Callahan, Mike Knuble, Sami Kapanen, Gustav Nyquist, Michal Handzus, Shawn Horcoff, Craig Smith, Vladimir Sobotka, Joonas Donskoi, Andreas Anthanasiou, Jean-Gabriel Pargeau, Eric Belanger, Casey Cizikas, Tobias Rieder, Ryan Malone, Matthew Barnaby, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Nikolay Borchevsky, Josh Anderson, Shawn Bates, Colton Sceviour, Tyler Kennedy, Jamal Mayers, Keith Yandle, Alexei Zhitnik, Igor Kravchuk, Lubomir Visnovsky, T.J. Brodie, Mathias Ekholm, Jacob Slavin, Sami Vatanen, Christian Ehrhoff, David Savard, Robert Svehla, Alec Martinez, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Michael Rozsival, Tom Gilbert, Toni Lydman, Joe Corvo, Jan Hedja, Barden Holtby, Philipp Grubauer, Jusso Saros...they all went in the 4th round.

You just gotta pick the right one.
Why not take a chance ? Any of those players I would pick ahead of Simon Bourque, wouldn't you agree ?

Hence the term homerun.... those are probably less than 1% of all players picked. Also i think more lae draft picks panned out in the old time. Nowaday only a few. Maybe it's just my perception.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Hence the term homerun.... those are probably less than 1% of all players picked. Also i think more lae draft picks panned out in the old time. Nowaday only a few. Maybe it's just my perception.

I'd say there's about 3-4 every year. So it's more like 10%.
Which is still better than having no chance at all...or, in this case, Bourque's chance of playing at the NHL-level one day.

 

[Zennon]

I'd say there's about 3-4 every year. So it's more like 10%.
Which is still better than having no chance at all...or, in this case, Bourque's chance of playing at the NHL-level one day.

That's how bad GMs operates, hey at least we got something..... Good GMs will make moves that have a higher percentage of making the team better.

I don't want to involve EDM, but that's just like saying at least we got a SUPPOSEDLY #1D back in the Hall trade instead of looking for other better options.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Rather take armia who himself is a former 1st round pick with loads of untapped potential (never got a fair/consistent shot in the peg) over a late first....especially knowing trevor Timmins sucks at drafting.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Almost 20 pages on a cap dump. Good job HFBoards .

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Rather take armia who himself is a former 1st round pick with loads of untapped potential (never got a fair consistent shot in the peg) over a late first....especially knowing trevor Timmins sucks at drafting.

He got a shot in WPG.. He just never did much with it. On a good team hes a 3rd or 4th liner. On Montreal hes a 2nd or 3rd liner.. He goes MIA for long periods of time. I liked the guy but.. Hes not as great as you think he is .

 

[ohmyjlord]

That's how bad GMs operates, hey at least we got something..... Good GMs will make moves that have a higher percentage of making the team better.

I don't want to involve EDM, but that's just like saying at least we got a SUPPOSEDLY #1D back in the Hall trade instead of looking for other better options.

Who said they didn't ?

Are you just going to pass on a good deal because you can't find "better" ? The Habs didn't lose any trading 'assets' here. They waited until pretty much the last hour to get a deal done that would allow them to buy Mason's contract out from what I understand.

 

[Never]

Rather take armia who himself is a former 1st round pick with loads of untapped potential (never got a fair/consistent shot in the peg) over a late first....especially knowing trevor Timmins sucks at drafting.

I see you went with an ironic username.

 

[Cleatus]

Was really starting to like Armia, but if this trade means Stastny stays in Winnipeg for at least a few more years, it’ll be worth it.

In the end, finding another Armia will be a lot easier than finding another Stastny.

 

[Chet Manley]

Bit surprised Mason had buyout type value considering the UFA goalie market this summer. No one needed a 1b goalie on a 1 year contract? Rhetorical, question already answered.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

For Montreal fans, you'll love Armia. He's one of the better players I've seen for forcing turnovers and taking away the puck from the opposing team. He also has soft hands and a good shot. The knock on him is that he takes a half a second too long to make a decision with the puck. He is very skilled, just needs to make faster decisions and he would be a lock as a top 6 winger.

That description reminds me of Lars Eller when he was with the Canadiens.

 

[TT1]

 

[ImNeverWrong]

He got a shot in WPG.. He just never did much with it. On a good team hes a 3rd or 4th liner. On Montreal hes a 2nd or 3rd liner.. He goes MIA for long periods of time. I liked the guy but.. Hes not as great as you think he is .

Nah I watched maybe 75 regular season games and all jets playoff games. He's ultra talented and never played above the third line. Yah he's inconsistent but his best linemate was the also the inconsistent Little.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

I see you went with an ironic username.

I like how my name triggers people who cant make arguments. Usually irrelevant posters (13k posts, 61 likes. Lol). Please feel free to tell me why this trade was bad for the habs. As for "never"...as in never right?

 

[kylbaz]

Said it the past two seasons, one game Armia looks like he should be on the first line, then he's invisible for five. Then has another good game, repeat.

 

[thepuckguru]

Rather take armia who himself is a former 1st round pick with loads of untapped potential (never got a fair/consistent shot in the peg) over a late first....especially knowing trevor Timmins sucks at drafting.

Rankings of teams drafting success on games played per pick since Timmons has been drafting for the habs. Yeah he really sucks.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Rankings of teams drafting success on games played per pick since Timmons has been drafting for the habs. Yeah he really sucks.
View attachment 127557

Its Timmins*
And yah he's not good. Outside the 2007 draft which is an outlier/anomaly he's been rather horrid. But wow let's just say hes great because trash like Michael McCarron, Jared tinordi, louie leblanc, etc played a few games on the 4th line and last pairing on a depthless habs team. Timmins gets credit for 2 things. 2007 draft and Carey price. Hes lived off these anomalies for his career. Just because you draft a few dime a dozen grinders (Ryan White, Matt D'agostini, etc) that end up playing 300 plus games, doesn't make you a draft genius (which skews those GP numbers). I hope you understand that.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

armia is bad. he plays good for 1 game then 4 game of garbage.

That's not true.
Armia is a really solid player.
The rate that he steals pucks at makes him extremely useful.
He has a great cycle game, can play the PK and if needed supplement the PP2.

Is he the big scorer he was projected to be?
No, but he is a damn good NHL player.
MTL will be pretty happy with him.
His worst games have been when he is playing with a nagging injury. When healthy he can be a really effective player.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Almost 20 pages on a cap dump. Good job HFBoards .

Always happens with Montreal. Even AHL trades reach 20 pages on our board. When we traded Hal Gill to Nashville in 2012 it crashed HFBoards (before crashes were a regular thing)

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Rather take armia who himself is a former 1st round pick with loads of untapped potential (never got a fair/consistent shot in the peg) over a late first....especially knowing trevor Timmins sucks at drafting.

So it is his fault that different GMs sent his picks to other teams ?

 

[scrubadam]

If he is resigned to a good deal he can be flipped again next year.

MB managed to get 2 2nds for Lars Eller, a guy who was also a 25 point player. I think a 2nd/3rd isn't out of the question. Especially since he will probably get a lot of chances to play in Montreal.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

So it is his fault that different GMs sent his picks to other teams ?

How often does a Trevor Timmins pick become a valued contributor? I'm not talking about high draft pick slam dunks. I'm talking like his average picks...like the kyle chipchura's of the world. Those typical SAFE picks, that have careers but never amount to anything of value.

Anyways, Timmins is awful. If the habs can find a way to get young players like Armia from other teams...i'm all for it. Lord knows our scouting staff is horrible at unearthing potential game breaking talent. But hey if we want the player with 400 games on the 4th line with loads of character, trevor's your man!

 

[Captain97]

How often does a Trevor Timmins pick become a valued contributor? I'm not talking about high draft pick slam dunks. I'm talking like his average picks...like the kyle chipchura's of the world. Those typical SAFE picks, that have careers but never amount to anything of value.

Anyways, Timmins is awful. If the habs can find a way to get young players like Armia from other teams...i'm all for it. Lord knows our scouting staff is horrible at unearthing potential game breaking talent. But hey if we want the player with 400 games on the 4th line with loads of character, trevor's your man!

Actually Timmins is a good head scout. They recently released a few of his lists that would have had him drafting John Carlson (pick got traded draft day) and he wanted to take Kreider instead of Louis leblanc. Also someone else posted about games played per pick and since Timmins took over Habs are first.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Actually Timmins is a good head scout. They recently released a few of his lists that would have had him drafting John Carlson (pick got traded draft day) and he wanted to take Kreider instead of Louis leblanc. Also someone else posted about games played per pick and since Timmins took over Habs are first.

The proof is in the pudding, his body of work is NOT impressive when it comes to players that make genuine differences. David Fischer...lol. But it's okay he drafted an over-ager in Jaro Halak with his last pick in 2003 to really skew those games played numbers. They didn't take Kreider, why does Timmins get credit for being unable to convince a gm to take the guy he actually wanted? What's Timmins job anyways if he can't get his picks and scouting across to the GM?