Player Discussion Would you want Zack Kassian as part of this team

[Reilly13]

He's a ****** player and a ****** person. I don't care about the booze/drugs, it's his obvious disregard for the well being of others that's a much harder thing to rehabilitate than addiction. Besides that he's done jack **** short of a few decent stretches with gravy linemates. The Canadians need size as bad as us up front and they don't think he's worth the trouble either. He's not even close to a Scott Hartnell. There's a chance he could be a decent player in the future but he's got a 10 cent head, average at best footspeed, and isn't some kind of defensive wizard. He's got a good shot and good strength, he'd be a great enforcer, but he's more like Ben Eager than many on here care to admit.

Which "gravy linemates"? He rarely played with the Sedins in Vancouver so obviously not them. The year he had 29 points his most common linemates were Brad Richardson and David Booth.

Nobody has compared him to Hartnell.

Kassian is a better player in every facet of the game than Eager was besides skating. Not a great comparison.

 

[sepHF]

I don't like Kassian, especially ever since he taunted Gagner... but if he can make the team better (and I think he can if he gets his **** together) then I'm all for it.

 

[Samus44]

Which "gravy linemates"? He rarely played with the Sedins in Vancouver so obviously not them. The year he had 29 points his most common linemates were Brad Richardson and David Booth.

I'm not talking about his whole season. My recollection was of Kassian producing most of his points while playing with the Sedins and other top 6ers. He's gone on some decent streaks and other streaks of unproductive play. I didn't say he always played with gravy linemates i said he did so during his good stretches.

Nobody has compared him to Hartnell.

Seriously? 3rd sentence of the op.

Kassian is a better player in every facet of the game than Eager was besides skating. Not a great comparison.

I agree that he's better than Eager but he's more similar to that than a Scott Hartnell. Eager was a 1st rounder with a projectable skillset who tended to score as many or more goals than assists. He was a big body who was ideally an enforcer despite the fact he didn't see himself as one. Kassian hasn't done anything yet to say he's closer to a Hartnell type than a Ben Eager type and that was my point. I'm not saying he's the same i'm saying he's closer to that than many care to admit. Kassian has the hands and size to be a decent player but there's a reason he hasn't been considered a top 6 guy yet and is on his 4th org. already.

 

[shoop]

I agree that he's better than Eager but he's more similar to that than a Scott Hartnell.

Kassian in his first 198 games is on a 0.333 ppg pace. First five seasons in the league.

Eager in his first 190 games was on a .189 ppg pace. First five seasons in the league.

Hartnell in his first 232 games was on a .392 ppg pace. First three seasons in the league.

Seems like Kassian is closer to Hartnell than Eager at this point.

If Kassian actually plays for the Oilers I think it will be considered a home run. He has the physical tools. The only question is what is between the ears. If he still needs to do some growing up at this point then you gotta wonder if he'll ever get it...

 

[Gord]

Why not?

I haven't heard anything bad about his attitude.

It sounds like it was just a substance abuse problem. If he can stay clean, I don't really see the problem.

If he really is trying to get cleaned up then no problem giving him a chance.
I think he finally understands if he can't stay clean he'll be out of hockey.

 

[Philly85*]

**** this guy, just a huge piece of ****. Disappointed he's here.

 

[doulos]

**** this guy, just a huge piece of ****. Disappointed he's here.

He's an Oiler now so according to many you're forced to cheer for him and think he's some sort of reformed saint.

 

[Replacement*]

This. A thousand times this. I don't care about his off-ice issues, I guarandamntee you there are guys on every single NHL roster with substance abuse problems. It's the fact that he nearly caved Gagner's entire head in and then had the audacity to mock Gagner to his face the next time they played against each other. To be such a sociopath that you can't even realise a few inches in either direction and Gagner dies on the ice and then to laugh about it?

Human garbage like that has no place in civilised society, let alone a club of millionaires.

What absolute claptrap. To extrapolate what a paid antagonizer does and equate that to mean the person must be a sociopathic pariah is among the most ridiculous things I've seen stated here.

You don't know whether Kassian is a sociopath and it seems as if you didn't even consider that this is a player that will do anything to get an edge as an antagonizer.

A role he is paid to perform.

Kassian wasn't just mocking Gagner. He was mocking a team that will do nothing about it or about any injury or licence taken against any player. To that degree I actually thank Kassian for outing what a backless ****show this lineup typically is.

I would say friends that never have your back might also be candidates as narcissists. But that would be another misleading narrative.

Lets be clear here as well. Sams own teammate, Taylor Hall, in perhaps not his most thoughtful moment laughed at Gagners face on Twitter and said "That's a good look for you Sam". Nobody would be calling Hall "Human garbage" for saying that it was merely bad humor and bad judgement.

 

[Replacement*]

FFS one of the Sutters called his actions classless, should Rich Sutter try watching a different sport? You sound like someone who's never played sports or if you did you're the kind of guy nobody wants on his team. These are real people not just objects for your entertainment. If Eddie ****ing Shore can shake Ace Bailey's hand then why the **** does Kassian need to act like a ***** to Gagner?

Hopefully he's learned but if you think that isn't reprehensible i hope you don't play hockey or any other sport, you're the type of guy who runs people from behind and laughs or *****es about the penalty if you do play. Guys like you have no place in our sport but thankfully you're in the minorty. During all my years of hockey i can't imagine a single teammate i've played with who'd agree with the ridiculous position you've taken on this matter.

"The kind of people" ?!?

Kassian is professionally paid to antagonize. In a league and sport that has a well written history of players bringing the same attribute. With the degree to which opposing fans hate the player usually being a pretty effective barometer of how the antagonize performs their role.

Why are people assumptively jumping to the type of person Kassian is instead of the type of player he is?

Next, since when are the Sutters considered unbiased purveyors and arbiters of what is good and bad in hockey. One of them played a career with the dirtiest goalie in the history of the game. Any Sutter is just another player. Anybody quoting them as some kind of argument on this is just servicing their own preconceived opinion and attempting to anecdotally back it.

 

[redgrant]

[MOD] Main thing is we got rid of scrivens.

Dont want him here but see managements logic.

 

[McTedi]

[MOD] Main thing is we got rid of scrivens.

Dont want him here but see managements logic.

That's the holiday spirit Whatever its an absolute no lose situation for Chia. If it pans out and he shows any of that gritty skill Chia looks like a ****ing hero. If not, oh well next...

 

[McTedi]

"The kind of people" ?!?

Kassian is professionally paid to antagonize. In a league and sport that has a well written history of players bringing the same attribute. With the degree to which opposing fans hate the player usually being a pretty effective barometer of how the antagonize performs their role.

Why are people assumptively jumping to the type of person Kassian is instead of the type of player he is?

Next, since when are the Sutters considered unbiased purveyors and arbiters of what is good and bad in hockey. One of them played a career with the dirtiest goalie in the history of the game. Any Sutter is just another player. Anybody quoting them as some kind of argument on this is just servicing their own preconceived opinion and attempting to anecdotally back it.

Like this post, very true.

 

[grumpworsley]

[MOD] Main thing is we got rid of scrivens.

Dont want him here but see managements logic.

Well yes because the team is playing so well without out him

 

[doulos]

The quicker "players" (I hate to even use that word with him) like Kassian get expunged from the league the better. The role of professional injurer and cheap shot artists should have no place in the league, Oiler jersey or otherwise.

 

[Spawn]

The quicker "players" (I hate to even use that word with him) like Kassian get expunged from the league the better. The role of professional injurer and cheap shot artists should have no place in the league, Oiler jersey or otherwise.

Honest question, because I don't know the answer. But how many players has Kassian injured outside of the Gagner incident (which was a very dangerous play, but not one I ever saw as intentional to the point of hitting Gagner in the face)?

Does he have a significant history of doing that kind of thing?

Or was that a one off.

 

[harpoon]

What absolute claptrap. To extrapolate what a paid antagonizer does and equate that to mean the person must be a sociopathic pariah is among the most ridiculous things I've seen stated here.

While I agree that sociopath is probably taking it a bit too far, I think you are being disingenuous when you hide Kassian's actions behind the words "paid antagonizer".
This incident didn't take place in some sort of antagonistic confrontation, or even a fair fight between gentlemen. It was at best an act of senseless carelessness, and at worst a blatant attempt to injure using a weapon. Gagner was an utterly innocent victim.

But suppose we excuse all that. What do you say to a person who has months to reflect on the damage he has done to a fellow professional's career, and he chooses to mock the victim publicly? While that may not qualify as sociopathy, it certainly raises some very serious questions about Kassian's mental makeup. Imagine how low you have to be that you can't even shake hands, and apologize as a human being after breaking someone's jaw and causing them to endure surgeries and countless hours of pain and suffering.

it seems as if you didn't even consider that this is a player that will do anything to get an edge as an antagonizer.

This is a strange narrative. I noticed it earlier with the cinder block wall comment. What evidence do you have that Kassian is the type of guy who will do anything to win and absolutely lay it all on the line for the team? If he was that sort of player would he be where he is right now?

Kassian wasn't just mocking Gagner. He was mocking a team that will do nothing about it or about any injury or licence taken against any player. To that degree I actually thank Kassian for outing what a backless ****show this lineup typically is.

Allrighty then. So long as he was mocking the team, fans and city as well, that gives him license to hold a fake straw up to his mouth as if he is sipping his dinner?
I gotta say, I'm very surprised to find you on that side of this argument.

I'd respect Kassian a lot more if he would have dropped the gloves with some legit heavies instead of running his mouth and cheap-shotting the littlest guys he could find.

Sams own teammate, Taylor Hall, in perhaps not his most thoughtful moment laughed at Gagners face on Twitter and said "That's a good look for you Sam". Nobody would be calling Hall "Human garbage" for saying that it was merely bad humor and bad judgement.

You can't seriously be comparing the good natured well wishes of a team mate with being mocked, by Kassian of all people, on national TV? I can't believe I'm reading this. One of the most disgusting things I've ever seen a Canuck player do, and that's saying a lot given the beauties they tend to employ, reduced to bad humor.

 

[McFlyingV]

What absolute claptrap. To extrapolate what a paid antagonizer does and equate that to mean the person must be a sociopathic pariah is among the most ridiculous things I've seen stated here.

You don't know whether Kassian is a sociopath and it seems as if you didn't even consider that this is a player that will do anything to get an edge as an antagonizer.

A role he is paid to perform.

Kassian wasn't just mocking Gagner. He was mocking a team that will do nothing about it or about any injury or licence taken against any player. To that degree I actually thank Kassian for outing what a backless ****show this lineup typically is.

I would say friends that never have your back might also be candidates as narcissists. But that would be another misleading narrative.

Lets be clear here as well. Sams own teammate, Taylor Hall, in perhaps not his most thoughtful moment laughed at Gagners face on Twitter and said "That's a good look for you Sam". Nobody would be calling Hall "Human garbage" for saying that it was merely bad humor and bad judgement.

"The kind of people" ?!?

Kassian is professionally paid to antagonize. In a league and sport that has a well written history of players bringing the same attribute. With the degree to which opposing fans hate the player usually being a pretty effective barometer of how the antagonize performs their role.

Why are people assumptively jumping to the type of person Kassian is instead of the type of player he is?

Next, since when are the Sutters considered unbiased purveyors and arbiters of what is good and bad in hockey. One of them played a career with the dirtiest goalie in the history of the game. Any Sutter is just another player. Anybody quoting them as some kind of argument on this is just servicing their own preconceived opinion and attempting to anecdotally back it.

Thank you.

Does Kassian maybe cross the line from time to time? Sure, but he's far from the only player who does it. He's only been suspended once to my knowledge for a reckless, but unintentional play (imo). I don't know how people can call his on ice persona an indicator of who he is off the ice when so many players are complete opposites on the ice compared to off the ice.

 

[doulos]

Honest question, because I don't know the answer. But how many players has Kassian injured outside of the Gagner incident (which was a very dangerous play, but not one I ever saw as intentional to the point of hitting Gagner in the face)?

Does he have a significant history of doing that kind of thing?

Or was that a one off.

I'd have to check actual injury status but I know he concussed Matt Kennedy with one of the worst headshots you can possibly dig up. Not sure if Dillon missed games or not when he was drilled from behind.

 

[Replacement*]

While I agree that sociopath is probably taking it a bit too far, I think you are being disingenuous when you hide Kassian's actions behind the words "paid antagonizer".
This incident didn't take place in some sort of antagonistic confrontation, or even a fair fight between gentlemen. It was at best an act of senseless carelessness, and at worst a blatant attempt to injure using a weapon. Gagner was an utterly innocent victim.

But suppose we excuse all that. What do you say to a person who has months to reflect on the damage he has done to a fellow professional's career, and he chooses to mock the victim publicly? While that may not qualify as sociopathy, it certainly raises some very serious questions about Kassian's mental makeup. Imagine how low you have to be that you can't even shake hands, and apologize as a human being after breaking someone's jaw and causing them to endure surgeries and countless hours of pain and suffering.

This is a strange narrative. I noticed it earlier with the cinder block wall comment. What evidence do you have that Kassian is the type of guy who will do anything to win and absolutely lay it all on the line for the team? If he was that sort of player would he be where he is right now?

Allrighty then. So long as he was mocking the team, fans and city as well, that gives him license to hold a fake straw up to his mouth as if he is sipping his dinner?
I gotta say, I'm very surprised to find you on that side of this argument.

I'd respect Kassian a lot more if he would have dropped the gloves with some legit heavies instead of running his mouth and cheap-shotting the littlest guys he could find.

You can't seriously be comparing the good natured well wishes of a team mate with being mocked, by Kassian of all people, on national TV? I can't believe I'm reading this. One of the most disgusting things I've ever seen a Canuck player do, and that's saying a lot given the beauties they tend to employ, reduced to bad humor.

Like I prefaced I'm the biggest Gagner fan on the board. But that boat has sailed. I realize I could be biased about Kassian and that perhaps I have been. I've countered this by trying to take an open mind to what this player is and what he can bring. I remember thinking many times that Kassian was one of the players that ruled the Oilers and influenced outcomes. Did he taunt the gutless Oilers. Absolutely. Should he have? I'd say in his role, yes, sure. Anything to get an edge.

Like I said the most disgusting thing is not that Kassian would out what a gutless team this is, its that this team is, and has been gutless.

You perhaps forget that I very much like the element of physical hockey and that I think the LA Kings play the best brand of hockey.

It abhors me, frankly, all these years to be cheering for a team bereft of physical play or standing up for each other.

Even Gagner on this team would fight, would get in scrums, and try to rise up and fend some of that off. While most players on this club bigger than he was would just skate in the opposite direction as quickly as they could.

Last game a Flame punched Nuge in the head. His response was to immediately skate away and pretend it never happened. Like a Sedin would.

That's whats wrong with this hockey club.

Hockey is a physical sport and a physical battle. if you are not willing to do that battle as a pro player getting 6M you picked the wrong sport. That's honestly how I feel.

 

[Spawn]

I'd have to check actual injury status but I know he concussed Matt Kennedy with one of the worst headshots you can possibly dig up. Not sure if Dillon missed games or not when he was drilled from behind.

Had to look up what you're talking about with Matt Kennedy... you're referring to a hit he threw in junior before he was even drafted. Doesn't that kind of not support the question of whether he has a history of it in this league?

And I checked for you on Dillon. He played the next game a two days later. Doesn't even look like he missed a shift.

So, really doesn't look like a professional injury assassin or whatever it is that you called him.

 

[s7ark]

Closing this thread. We can continue the discussion in the Kassian trade thread