Speculation: Would you trade a future-Krejci for a future-Horton?

[Number8]

The current depth at any position should never dictate a move. It's like a team passing on a player they have rated higher in the draft because they need help at another spot. You always take the better player. In this case, if they feel that Spooner's ceiling is ultimately higher than an available guy that may fit their current needs better, they need to do the right thing and hang onto the better player. You can't start making moves based on needs, because like others have pointed out, you're only an injury away from now having a weakness at an area that you felt was deep.

Normally I would agree, however I do think there are sometimes circumstances that could cause a GM to take a slightly different tack.

Take Edmonton, for example. They've had an embarrassment of riches in terms of the draft and one could argue have always taken the "best player" -- usually forwards. That said, their defense is an embarrassment. Why they didn't leverage one of those picks and trade down to grab a top notch dman + is a failure of management.

I sort of see the Spooner situation the same way. I don't think he's going to get a shot at a center slot at the level he needs to be, so why not consider trading one asset for another that better fills a obvious hole in your depth chart.

 

[TP]

Just throwing this out there.

Not sure what else it would take, but Spooner for Yakupov. I know Nail sucks in his own end, but I think he can be trained.

 

[dtam83]

yes, you would do the deal. The assumption is you're getting equal value. and if you are getting equal value, why wouldn't you want someone that fills more of a need rather than someone that is rotting in your minor leagues. kind of a waste of talent. the right trade can be beneficial to all parties involved

 

[LSCII]

I disagree. I think need and organizational depth are the main reason most deals are made.

Even the idea of drafting the BPA falls back on depth. i.e. If you end up with too many good players at one position then you can trade from a position of strength and depth.

Fwiw, I'm not saying they should downgrade, or give up the best player in the deal. I'm saying trade a Grade A apple for a Grade A orange.

I fully agree with the bolded in terms of what most teams do, but I don't agree with the philosophy. Most teams do look at needs when drafting or trading, and it's a dangerous path. You tend to pass over better players in the draft or discount a guy on your current team because they don't fill the exact need, which leads you to taking lesser skilled players or devaluing the asset being moved. That's flawed logic.

In this case, I think rather than try to move Spooner for a winger because you have too many centers, you need to move one of the centers to wing(specifically work with Spooner in the AHL to get him some games there to develop a comfort level, and if that doesn't work, bump Soderberg back over). Basically this is a long way to go for me to say that there's a reason why this league places more value at the center position than wing. It's a harder position to fill. You find a good center, even if you use him off position initially, you can still slot that guy over if injuries happen, like they always do. So I'm not all for moving a guy based on need, since your team needs can change in the blink of an eye.

 

[member 96824]

Thanks.

Fwiw, I do think Spooner could play wing. He's said he feels like he's smart enough to convert. I don't know that it's the best use of his talents, and the Bruins have, IMO, shown a bit of tunnel vision with their insistence on not moving him around a bit to develop some versatility. So either they see something (I don't) that suggests he's not a good candidate to switch, or they had a plan for him that's now being upended a bit.

I don't have someone specific in mind, but I know the type: a young gunner with skill and tenacity. A guy like Tyler Toffoli comes to mind, but LA isn't in need of a C. For a deal to work,I think you'd have to find a team that's in need of help down the middle, and then see if they have a high-end right winger.

Quack quack quack quack quack! quack! quack!

 

[LSCII]

yes, you would do the deal. The assumption is you're getting equal value. and if you are getting equal value, why wouldn't you want someone that fills more of a need rather than someone that is rotting in your minor leagues. kind of a waste of talent. the right trade can be beneficial to all parties involved

For it to be equal value, the winger would have to actually be better than the center you would be trading.

 

[11MilesPerJohan]

Just throwing this out there.

Not sure what else it would take, but Spooner for Yakupov. I know Nail sucks in his own end, but I think he can be trained.

Yes, assuming Claude remembers to give him a Scooby snack every time he does something right...

 

[PlayMakers]

My vote is no.

A guy like Krejci got his chance to shine when Savard got hurt. What's to say he doesn't do the same if Bergeron or DK did the same in the future?

I know, it's all hypothetical, but I'm not inclined to trade a player with his skill set and one of the most important positions in hockey.

I look no further then when the Canucks made a huge mistake in trading Cody Hodgson. While he had beef with the Canucks coaching staff and wanted out, Canucks thought it would be a good idea to address another need because Sedin/Kesler were ahead of him in the depth chart and that didn’t work out too well. Kassian is an absolute DUD.

I just think, the way this team has been built over the years, we don’t necessarily need to unload our best prospects to get the guys we need. I don’t see it changing as Boston continues to be patient with most of their guys in Providence.

It's a different story if we're a team like Calgary/Florida...trying to find another diamond in rough. But with Boston, we're already established with legit talent and don't need to pull off that type of gamble.

I hear the injury argument, but if Soderberg is for real, then the B's are already carrying three top2 centers.

In your analogy where Bergy got hurt and Krejci got his chance, it's actually Soderberg who is playing the modern day version of Krejci in that story. Krejci was on the team as the 3c when Bergy was injured, just as Soderberg is the 3c now.

It would be nice to have a fourth C ready to go, but is it reasonable to expect an NHL team to have that much depth and insulation against injury? Is it better for the team to have a fourth top2 center waiting on standby or one legit top line winger playing regularly?

If we have to be quadruply insulated for every injury, why aren't we trying to stack up on Charas and Rasks? If one of those guys gets hurt, it's all for naught. (Obviously that's silly, I'm just trying to make the point that you can't always be insulated against injury. That's just life in the NHL.)

 

[trenton1]

I think it is BPA at the draft because of all the variables involving maturation. After a few years you can determine who fits where, who will be an NHLer and who wont and turn to the trade market based on that. One reason they may need to make a trade like this is that Jared Knight isn't looking like he will be a top 9 NHLer for the Bruins.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

do a huge package deal with Edmonton in the offseasons....

if we aren't going to resign iginla then the need for a top 2 line winger will be strong... but eberle is costing too much cap hit for us so the guy I take the shot on is yakupov and I say that our structure is strong enough to turn this kid into something useful

spooner and bartowski are probably the start of the offer to land him but by no means enough by themselves. I still say Edmonton can use Kelly and mcquaid to fill depth/leadership roles and I think boston can afford to let both go. I don't think this offer of 4 guys though is enough to get the job done for a first overall guy.

so throw in our first... or knight if oilers are high on him or koko... and maybe take back one of the Edmonton contracts they are no longer interested in paying.

yakupov is a lh shot but prefers the right side and has one heck of a wicked shot on the pp. he will play gritty for a Russian and defense can be taught

I think if iginla is willing to take a paycut though, I probably don't do this move and just resign him instead

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Bottom line: I do nothing with Spooner or Yeti right now.

Wait until Soderberg either signs an extension after next season or decides to walk. If we traded Spooner now and then Yeti decided to test the market in a year we'd be screwed.

And while Soderberg has been awesome and would be a top 6 guy on most teams I'm happy that we have the luxury of playing him on the 3rd line. Fortunately for the time being he makes 3rd (or 4th) line money so I don't really see the rush to open up a spot for him. We have flexibility now and if the worst case scenario next season is that Yeti has to move back to the wing so Spooner can get his reps in then I can live with that.

 

[member 96824]

and then we can trade Yakupov for 2 first and a 2nd.

 

[11MilesPerJohan]

I like Soderberg and the value he brings on the third line, but I don't think he should be the reason you jettison talented, young prospects.

Like I said before, Soderberg is 28, not 22...he is close to being what he is, which is probably a 3rd line center on a good team and a 2nd line center on an average team.

But the more I think about it, the fact that the Bruins have Soderberg under contract, shouldn't be a reason to ship off Spooner or not. It should really be about how they feel about Spooner and how they feel about whichever player they might fetch in return.

Soderberg is a nice player, but third line center can be replaced, and we don't even know if they are committed to him long term and at a steeper price.

 

[LSCII]

Bottom line: I do nothing with Spooner or Yeti right now.

Wait until Soderberg either signs an extension after next season or decides to walk. If we traded Spooner now and then Yeti decided to test the market in a year we'd be screwed.

And while Soderberg has been awesome and would be a top 6 guy on most teams I'm happy that we have the luxury of playing him on the 3rd line. Fortunately for the time being he makes 3rd (or 4th) line money so I don't really see the rush to open up a spot for him. We have flexibility now and if the worst case scenario next season is that Yeti has to move back to the wing so Spooner can get his reps in then I can live with that.

This, IMO, is exactly right. You don't run away from an embarrassment of riches at the center position just because you have more guys than spots. You wait and *****. Nothing worse than selling a guy to soon, and then losing that depth to injury which allowed you to make the move to start with. Keep them both and let it sort itself out over time. You have other assets you can flip if you want to add another player to the NHL roster.

 

[Nose Face Killah]

I'd absolutely do this trade. Bruins virtually have nobody at RW for prospects.

 

[SPV]

who are the best prospects for the young winger trade though; just Yakupov?

anyway, I'd probably do it, but would like to see a right handed player and one with a little more grind. Not sure if that player exists though!

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

It's a real good question and an interesting topic.

I'm not one to say you've got to make a move as soon as you've got enough players at one position, because depth is important, and the oft-mentioned injuries are on the way.

I think there may be times where it's beneficial to the team to deal from a postition of strength to shore up a position of weakness....just not sure if the Bruins are there right now.

If the "right" deal comes along, of course you make it.

In the meantime, maybe they should be letting Spooner get time at wing while he's down in Providence.

If that proves unsuccessful, you can always move Soderberg back to wing and play Spooner at center.

 

[PlayMakers]

I fully agree with the bolded in terms of what most teams do, but I don't agree with the philosophy. Most teams do look at needs when drafting or trading, and it's a dangerous path. You tend to pass over better players in the draft or discount a guy on your current team because they don't fill the exact need, which leads you to taking lesser skilled players or devaluing the asset being moved. That's flawed logic.

In this case, I think rather than try to move Spooner for a winger because you have too many centers, you need to move one of the centers to wing(specifically work with Spooner in the AHL to get him some games there to develop a comfort level, and if that doesn't work, bump Soderberg back over). Basically this is a long way to go for me to say that there's a reason why this league places more value at the center position than wing. It's a harder position to fill. You find a good center, even if you use him off position initially, you can still slot that guy over if injuries happen, like they always do. So I'm not all for moving a guy based on need, since your team needs can change in the blink of an eye.

I think that would be a fair option, if Spooner can make that transition. Not all centers can. And as mentioned earlier, the Bruins have been reluctant to even try it.

I also think that there's a time in your team's life cycle where "winning the deal" and "maximizing assets" is most important, and another time in your team's life cycle where putting the best team on the ice is what's most important. IMO, almost all of the so-called buyers at the trade deadline make deals knowing they're losers. They're giving up valuable futures for rentals. Sometimes the rentals re-sign, but many teams go into it know they're not maximizing the value of those picks or prospects they're giving up, and they're okay with that because they're at a point where they want to go all-in and try to make some post-season noise.

The Bruins are, IMO in that same window, and firmly believe that winning another Cup is what's most important. So the real question is: Do they believe they have a better chance of winning with Spooner as the 3rd line LW and backup^4 center, or by moving him for a potential top line winger?

I also wonder how much the line composition plays in these decisions. For example, do they think a 3rd line of Eriksson-Soderberg-??? needs more speed and playmaking on that other wing or some other quality like net front presence or hitting/forechecking or more of a finisher? Lines can change and if you make a trade to build a line sometimes it can backfire (like 63-37-21 did). Other times it works out exactly as planned (17-46-12). So how much weight does that carry in this discussion?

 

[KnightofBoston]

I certainly wouldn't do anything right now, a lot can happen between now, the off season, and signing yeti to an extension

Spooner was a gem in the second round, but I'm not sure we would get equal value back from another team

 

[PlayMakers]

Bottom line: I do nothing with Spooner or Yeti right now.

Wait until Soderberg either signs an extension after next season or decides to walk. If we traded Spooner now and then Yeti decided to test the market in a year we'd be screwed.

And while Soderberg has been awesome and would be a top 6 guy on most teams I'm happy that we have the luxury of playing him on the 3rd line. Fortunately for the time being he makes 3rd (or 4th) line money so I don't really see the rush to open up a spot for him. We have flexibility now and if the worst case scenario next season is that Yeti has to move back to the wing so Spooner can get his reps in then I can live with that.

Yeah, this wasn't necessarily a "right this second" kind of thread. Iginla's riding out the season on that top line. Spooner's back in the minors right now and even if they traded him it would be probably be for a guy who's on the cusp, but not yet arrived. And they'd certainly have to sign Soderberg before they moved Spoons, but I believe they can work on an extension as of July 1st.

 

[Greek_physique]

I hear the injury argument, but if Soderberg is for real, then the B's are already carrying three top2 centers.

In your analogy where Bergy got hurt and Krejci got his chance, it's actually Soderberg who is playing the modern day version of Krejci in that story. Krejci was on the team as the 3c when Bergy was injured, just as Soderberg is the 3c now.

It would be nice to have a fourth ready to go, but is that reasonable to expect an NHL team to have that much depth and insulation against injury? Is it better for the team to have a fourth top2 center waiting on standby or one legit top line winger playing regularly?

If we have to be quadruply insulated for every injury, why aren't we trying to stack up on Charas and Rasks? If one of those guys gets hurt, it's all for naught. (Obviously that's silly, I'm just trying to make the point that you can't always be insulated against injury. That's just life in the NHL.)

I guess another reason I’m hesitant to deal him is because I view someone like Spooner ahead of Yeti. So I could easily see him starting off the year as a 3rd line center, but still getting 15mins a night in that role.

While he’s done well in his short time, would you be against dealing Yeti if it improved our defense this year? I’ll probably get a lot of slack for saying this, but I wouldn’t be against trading him….he reminds me of Wheeler in some fashion (quick, good shot..but might struggle to put it all together with us). IMO, he can be replaced a lot easier then other players on the Bruins. Again, maybe I’m jumping the gun because it’s his first full season with the Bruins, but I don’t see anything that special in his game that makes me think of him as a potential top 2 center.

I see Spooner as someone that will be responsible on both ends of the ice and will have exceptional skills for our PP. Making him a versatile player that Chia/CJ love to have.

 

[bruinshoper]

My vote is no.

A guy like Krejci got his chance to shine when Savard got hurt. What's to say he doesn't do the same if Bergeron or DK did the same in the future?

I know, it's all hypothetical, but I'm not inclined to trade a player with his skill set and one of the most important positions in hockey.

I look no further then when the Canucks made a huge mistake in trading Cody Hodgson. While he had beef with the Canucks coaching staff and wanted out, Canucks thought it would be a good idea to address another need because Sedin/Kesler were ahead of him in the depth chart and that didn’t work out too well. Kassian is an absolute DUD.

I just think, the way this team has been built over the years, we don’t necessarily need to unload our best prospects to get the guys we need. I don’t see it changing as Boston continues to be patient with most of their guys in Providence.

It's a different story if we're a team like Calgary/Florida...trying to find another diamond in rough. But with Boston, we're already established with legit talent and don't need to pull off that type of gamble.

Don't trade for a Dud

 

[GoBs]

Agree I would trade Spooner provided the Bruins can sign Krecji. Krecji is going to be looking for Bergy type money.

 

[DoubleAAAA]

who are the best prospects for the young winger trade though; just Yakupov?

anyway, I'd probably do it, but would like to see a right handed player and one with a little more grind. Not sure if that player exists though!

Here are some of the top Winger prospects I think you'd be looking at, some obviously you'd have to add one way or the other:

Yakupov
Bartschi
Toffoli
Teravainen
Chiasson
Ritchie
Zucker
Forsberg
Rattie
Kristo
Miller
Tom Wilson
Etem
Gaudreau
Pearson
Nieto
Armia
Mantha
Jurco
Collberg
Panik
Kucherov

 

[vjcsmoke]

Yeah, this wasn't necessarily a "right this second" kind of thread. Iginla's riding out the season on that top line. Spooner's back in the minors right now and even if they traded him it would be probably be for a guy who's on the cusp, but not yet arrived. And they'd certainly have to sign Soderberg before they moved Spoons, but I believe they can work on an extension as of July 1st.

With Iginla still in the fold, this is definitely a too soon speculative trade. Spooner and Soderberg worked well together. I don't see why they wouldn't continue to work well in the future even if C is Soderberg's best position. Spooner's lack of flexibility is a nonissue because Soderberg has shown he can play well enough in the off wing position.

Speaking of Soderberg, he may be on a bargain contract now, but he hasn't been resigned yet. And I think he will be looking for a fair market value deal once his initial contract is up. Until Soderberg is extended or resigned this thread is also in the 'too soon' category. So imo until Iginla and Soderberg are accounted for you just keep Spooner, let him further develop.

Another factor to consider is that Spooner's skillset has many comparing him to Marc Savard. If Spooner's upside really turns out to be Savard, you're not giving up a center, you're giving up a center with exceptional vision who brings a different dimension to your team than any of your other current centers. I think that kind of upside is not something to be given up lightly.

Spooner has much more upside to come, and you need to let your assets grow in value before you cash in, whether that be by giving them a spot on the big team or moving them for another player.