Would You Have Made The Duchene Trade?

[DrakeAndJosh]

his refusual to negotiate a sign and trade was also a big FU to the franchise. He is allowed to make those choices but there is plenty of blame to go around for the Karlsson position.

Give me examples of any sign and trades in the NHL recently? Turris is probably the closest and even that was rare. It doesn't happen in the NHL pretty much ever. It was Ottawa who decided they didn't want Karlsson, not Karlsson who decided he wanted out of Ottawa. He owed us nothing.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Knowing what we know now (both about the team and ownership), I wouldn't do this trade...even with a signed Duchene.

 

[branch]

I hate to offend people personaly and for some reason everyone goes ape**** if you dare mention the king without acting like he is St.Erik. A lot of wasted time went on with him going in front of the camera and saying how he loves Ottawa and wants to stay forever but in reality he had zero intentions of negotiating and was just kicking the can down the road. That was a serious handcuffing, his refusual to negotiate a sign and trade was also a big FU to the franchise. He is allowed to make those choices but there is plenty of blame to go around for the Karlsson position.

Wtf are you talking about. Karlsson was never gonna sign because your dad wasn’t going to give him the signing bonus contract like every other star in the league. This is such a bullshit take it makes me sick honestly. Trying to Shutter Island people is just such a bush league move. Honestly try this with other people not me, I know for a fact Karlsson would have stayed if he got a market value contract but EM is such a load of shit that he didn’t offer it, and there was no chance he was staying under those circumstances.

 

[Peptic Balcers]

All of those November 2017 comments sounds an awful lot like "yes I see that iceberg up ahead but it surely cant do that much damage to the titanic"

 

[supsens]

Wtf are you talking about. Karlsson was never gonna sign because your dad wasn’t going to give him the signing bonus contract like every other star in the league. This is such a bull**** take it makes me sick honestly. Trying to Shutter Island people is just such a bush league move. Honestly try this with other people not me, I know for a fact Karlsson would have stayed if he got a market value contract but EM is such a load of **** that he didn’t offer it, and there was no chance he was staying under those circumstances.

He admits he never spoke to them, they said they made offers and never heard back. Be as sick as you want, what you know for a 'fact' isn't a fact, it's what you have decided to think and absolutely nothing points to it being accurate. The facts are he refused to negotiate and he showed zero interest in staying. Those two facts are the facts, they are not made up and they are not feelings.

 

[trueseraphim]

Hated the deal, felt like we were fated to lose him to UFA from day 1. He's an offensive dynamo but, who trades for a guy with this many character issues...?

 

[Johnny Hanson]

Hated the deal, felt like we were fated to lose him to UFA from day 1. He's an offensive dynamo but, who trades for a guy with this many character issues...?

What are his character issues?

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

What are his character issues?

Not signing with us despite our problems shows poor character

 

[DaveMatthew]

He admits he never spoke to them, they said they made offers and never heard back. Be as sick as you want, what you know for a 'fact' isn't a fact, it's what you have decided to think and absolutely nothing points to it being accurate. The facts are he refused to negotiate and he showed zero interest in staying. Those two facts are the facts, they are not made up and they are not feelings.

Karlsson also said that had he signed the offer that was made, he would have been traded anyway (ala Marian Hossa). So it's more that he wanted to control his destiny than that he didn't want to stay.

Would he have signed if they offered a deal with a NMC and appropriate signing bonus?

We'll never know, because they didn't offer that.

 

[DaveMatthew]

What are his character issues?

The same character issues as Turris and Karlsson. They didn't buy into the crap that Dorion and Melnyk were selling.

I suspect Stone will have these character issues as well.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Kyle Turris may not have been elite but he was as close to a model Senators as you want a man to be. Humble to a fault, good in the community, clutch scorer, consistent producer, he wasn't asking for the world, just market value. The trade was foolish, again Senators management tried to shove a shiny toy in front of us and, to be fair, Duchene has produced but I feel he'd be better in a larger market. He has a bit of that attention-seeker vibe to him, instead of being in the training room like Alfie was all the time.

 

[branch]

He admits he never spoke to them, they said they made offers and never heard back. Be as sick as you want, what you know for a 'fact' isn't a fact, it's what you have decided to think and absolutely nothing points to it being accurate. The facts are he refused to negotiate and he showed zero interest in staying. Those two facts are the facts, they are not made up and they are not feelings.

Lol k. Have a great night. I wonder why he had no interest in staying.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

If he signs, I'll still really like the trade.

 

[supsens]

Karlsson also said that had he signed the offer that was made, he would have been traded anyway (ala Marian Hossa). So it's more that he wanted to control his destiny than that he didn't want to stay.

Would he have signed if they offered a deal with a NMC and appropriate signing bonus?

We'll never know, because they didn't offer that.

Are him and his agent so incompetent they can't find the words to ask for anything? If you wanted to work and live somewhere you wouldn't even mention what it would take to keep you? It's obvious the guy didn't want to stay.
He is in a warm winter area, he's in an area that has many different places to spend his millions of fun tickets, good for him. I don't think people should be losing sleep over 'poor' Erik.

 

[HF Reader]

Interesting. If signing Duchene means we can't sign Stone then I don't even know what to say. They would have known they can't afford both and that would pretty much seal it that they never should have made the trade. If they really made the trade without a plan to sign him, then thats not the GM i would want running my team.

I feel pretty strongly that the only way this trade ever made any sense was with an extension. You certainly don't give up that much for one year of him and a deadline rental return that will pale in comparison to what we gave up.

I like him as a player, I hope we can keep him, but I still think the trade was a huge mistake that in hindsight has had catastophic consequences for the franchise. The fan base probably could have bought in to the rebuild if we still had what we gave up for him.

I agree with everything in your post. I'm curious what Dorion's plan was for EK, Stone and Duchene when he made the deal. I suspect he was thinking "we'll take a shot this year and cross the contract bridge when we get there". How could he plan to sign Duchene and also sign EK and Stone (and Ceci and pay Hoffman + Ryan) with several million in dead salary (Gaborik, etc.)?

The alternatives are too damning to contemplate. Was Dorion unaware of the pending financial problem of trying to sign Duchene and Stone (and EK)? Surely he thought 18 months ahead. Did Melnyk lie to him (or change his mind) and tell Dorion there would be enough money for both (and EK) including bonuses?

Does Dorion value Duchene more than Stone and EK?

Given the financial reality that I believe was apparent in the fall 2017 my guess is that the plan all along was to trade EK. I posted last February that the three would be gone by the trade deadline 2019 for financial reasons. It is the only thing that makes sense to me given the little (I think) I know.

I hope I'm made to look foolish for this prediction.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Give me examples of any sign and trades in the NHL recently? Turris is probably the closest and even that was rare. It doesn't happen in the NHL pretty much ever. It was Ottawa who decided they didn't want Karlsson, not Karlsson who decided he wanted out of Ottawa. He owed us nothing.

The Senators offered EK 88 million reasons to stay in Ottawa, and he rejected that offer.

EK pretty much orchestrated his way out of Ottawa, to some degree.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Lol I knew Duchene wasn't stupid enough to stick around.

 

[HF Reader]

The Senators offered EK 88 million reasons to stay in Ottawa, and he rejected that offer.

EK pretty much orchestrated his way out of Ottawa, to some degree.

If you were Karlsson would you accept $88 million in today's market with a possible lockout pending?
I ask not knowing the bonus structure offered.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

In hindsight they should have lottery protected the first, obviously. I still don't love the trade but it would have been more reasonable to have it auto convert to a 2nd if the pick landed top 5.

They did, how do you think they were able to select Tkachuk?

Colorado was not going to make a deal unless they got one of the next two first rounders, and having them both lottery protected would have been a non starter.

The expectations for last season, was that the Senators were going to be a playoff team, at the time of the trade

 

[God Says No]

They did, how do you think they were able to select Tkachuk?

Colorado was not going to make a deal unless they got one of the next two first rounders, and having them both lottery protected would have been a non starter.

The expectations for last season, was that the Senators were going to be a playoff team, at the time of the trade

Which was a huge miscalculation by the org.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

If you were Karlsson would you accept $88 million in today's market with a possible lockout pending?
I ask not knowing the bonus structure offered.

The $88 million over 8 seasons was the opening offer from the Senators. IF EK wanted any type of contract structure, to give him some sort of lockout protection, why didn't he submit that, in a counter offer?


Actions speak louder than words ........ he spewed on and on about how much he liked Ottawa etc, but when if came to negotiations for an extension, he was a no show.

If he becomes an UFA, I wish him all the best in finding the "greener grass" that he could not find in Ottawa, but he'll be lucky to get in the neighbourhood of $88 Million.......... but I don't think he really cares about that total contract value, as he's already made about $43 Million playing for Ottawa.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Which was a huge miscalculation by the org.

They were the third last team standing in the previous Seasons' playoffs, making it to game 7 of the ECFs ....... and the Organization and I'll bet the majority of the fan base had high expectations for last season ......... and the trade for Duchene was seen at the time, as a strengthening of the team, and an upgrade over Turris.


Sure, now in hindsight, it's easy to pick apart the trade, and the season............ but did you have a crystal ball? I know I didn't and I suspect PD did not either.

 

[branch]

The $88 million over 8 seasons was the opening offer from the Senators. IF EK wanted any type of contract structure, to give him some sort of lockout protection, why didn't he submit that, in a counter offer?


Actions speak louder than words ........ he spewed on and on about how much he liked Ottawa etc, but when if came to negotiations for an extension, he was a no show.

If he becomes an UFA, I wish him all the best in finding the "greener grass" that he could not find in Ottawa, but he'll be lucky to get in the neighbourhood of $88 Million.......... but I don't think he really cares about that total contract value, as he's already made about $43 Million playing for Ottawa.

He didn’t because he knows the team is Mickey Mouse and the owner is a piece of trash. Don’t even bother with this one folks lmao.

 

[HF Reader]

The $88 million over 8 seasons was the opening offer from the Senators. IF EK wanted any type of contract structure, to give him some sort of lockout protection, why didn't he submit that, in a counter offer?


Actions speak louder than words ........ he spewed on and on about how much he liked Ottawa etc, but when if came to negotiations for an extension, he was a no show.

If he becomes an UFA, I wish him all the best in finding the "greener grass" that he could not find in Ottawa, but he'll be lucky to get in the neighbourhood of $88 Million.......... but I don't think he really cares about that total contract value, as he's already made about $43 Million playing for Ottawa.

You might be right about his commitment to staying. There appears to have been factors other than money influencing the decision.
I can only surmise. I do know EK is not here and I do know Melnyk "warned" of cuts to total player salary.

 

[God Says No]

They were the third last team standing in the previous Seasons' playoffs, making it to game 7 of the ECFs ....... and the Organization and I'll bet the majority of the fan base had high expectations for last season ......... and the trade for Duchene was seen at the time, as a strengthening of the team, and an upgrade over Turris.


Sure, now in hindsight, it's easy to pick apart the trade, and the season............ but did you have a crystal ball? I know I didn't and I suspect PD did not either.

You didn't need a crystal ball to see. All the numbers and eye test showed that in the first year they were carried by the goalies/Karlsson in the regular season. Karlsson in the playoffs. These guys get paid to foresee the future. They failed miserably and should have been fired.