Would You Have Made The Duchene Trade?

[NorthCoast]

Keeping Methot over Ceci would have been wrong on a number of levels.

Methot was a "top pairing" D man, only because he was parented with EK65.

Who even ever heard of him, while he was playing in Columbus? I'll bet a lot of people were wondering "who is this guy" he came to Ottawa.

As stated earlier, Methot benefited immensely from playing along side EK65 while he was in Ottawa. Being the "stay at home" partner for EK65 is the best job in the NHL, and recovering and passing the puck to EK65 so that he can start the defensive zone exit, probably helped pad Methot's point totals.

Methot while in Columbus was averaging .185 P/Ga, vs .224P/Ga while in Ottawa ( If my math is correct).

In Dallas, Methot has 3 points in 45 games ........ so obviously protecting Ceci, over Methot, as much as a lot of people hate Cody, was the right thing to do.

And I suspect, IF Dorion had done what a lot of armchair GMs wanted (keeping Methot and letting Ceci go for nothing) they's be slamming PD for doing so.

Agreed.

But with my 20/20 hindsight supervision, I would also say that the failure was not replacing Methot. Sure, Methot for what he was and what he would cost in 2017 was not worth it. But the decision that he could be replaced by Harper, or Boro, or Phaneuf, or etc. as a top pairing partner for EK was wrong.

And it is a little frustrating that they didn't do this because they had already identified the need for EK to have a specific type of partner in the past.

The move to get Methot was one of my favorite moves by the sens. Because they identified exactly what they needed for EK and targeted a specific player that they properly projected would grow into the role, and the cost was reasonable because young Methot's will never break the bank. This to me is a great example of getting value out of a trade, because for several years Methot was clearly a better fit/more valuable as EK's partner in Ottawa then playing 2nd/3rd pairing in Columbus, and of more value to the sens than Foligno.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Keeping Methot over Ceci would have been wrong on a number of levels.

Methot was a "top pairing" D man, only because he was parented with EK65.

Who even ever heard of him, while he was playing in Columbus? I'll bet a lot of people were wondering "who is this guy" he came to Ottawa.

As stated earlier, Methot benefited immensely from playing along side EK65 while he was in Ottawa. Being the "stay at home" partner for EK65 is the best job in the NHL, and recovering and passing the puck to EK65 so that he can start the defensive zone exit, probably helped pad Methot's point totals.

Methot while in Columbus was averaging .185 P/Ga, vs .224P/Ga while in Ottawa ( If my math is correct).

In Dallas, Methot has 3 points in 45 games ........ so obviously protecting Ceci, over Methot, as much as a lot of people hate Cody, was the right thing to do.

And I suspect, IF Dorion had done what a lot of armchair GMs wanted (keeping Methot and letting Ceci go for nothing) they's be slamming PD for doing so.

Methot was our best dman the year Karlsson went down and was clearly our 2nd most effective dman when at full strength. He benefited from Karlsson, but at least he performed well in the role, which is more than we can say for Ceci.

You're right that it was right to protect him in the expansion draft. It was an asset move and it was the right move... once we let it come to that from lack of foresight. The mistake was letting it get there and not recognizing early enough that Ceci just isn't very good. We should have moved on from Ceci way before it ever came to that. We lost an asset because we held on to one we thought could turn it around, and he hasn't been able to. People are upset because our choice wasn't between two equal players, it was between an aging player and an inept one, and because of that situation, all we're left with is an overpaid bottom pairing dman who can't even outperform these kids making a million bucks each.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Methot was a better D man than Ceci.

The reason he has no points in Dallas is his knees are totally done.

Keeping Methot and Karlsson was the right thing to do.

At the time of the expansion draft, Ceci was about 23 years old, and Methot was about 32 years old.

There is no way in Heck that having Methot, last year, was going to change how the season ended up. He was only able to play 36 games last year, because of his "totally done knees".

Dorion made the right choice, in who to protect.

Ceci is still going strong, and has not missed a game since the expansion draft ........ and as YOU pointed out, Methot's knees are totally done ........... BUT, you would have kept him, right?

Just imagine the bellyaching there would here with Methot (as a Senator) sitting out, with his shot knees, and Ceci not having missed a game for the VGKs



BOTH Ceci and Methot are on expiring contracts ......... if both are traded, on TDL day (or before) Ceci brings back more in return, than Methot, if there's any takers on him that is.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

At the time of the expansion draft, Ceci was about 23 years old, and Methot was about 32 years old.

Dorion made the right choice, in who to protect.

Ceci is still going strong, and has not missed a game since the expansion draft ........ and as YOU pointed out, Methot's knees are totally done ........... BUT, you would have kept him, right?

Just imagine the bellyaching there would here with Methot (as a Senator) sitting out, with his shot knees, and Ceci not having missed a game for the VGKs

We would all be ecstatic.

Even with our D being the worst in the league, we want to give this overpaid plug away.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

We would all be ecstatic.

Even with our D being the worst in the league, we want to give this overpaid plug away.

Oh I agree, at $4.9 Million Methot is way overpaid, for the 45 games he's been able to play, since he was selected in the expansion draft.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Oh I agree, at $4.9 Million Methot is way overpaid, for the 45 games he's been able to play, since he was selected in the expansion draft.

Depends, is that insured?

I'd rather pay Methot 20% to sit on LTIR than pay Ceci 100% to be in the lineup. Addition by subtraction.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

f***ing Phanuef for not waiving his NMC during the expansion draft. Not a f***ing chance Vegas would of touched that dinosaur

 

[Upgrayedd]

Methot was our best dman the year Karlsson went down and was clearly our 2nd most effective dman when at full strength. He benefited from Karlsson, but at least he performed well in the role, which is more than we can say for Ceci.

You're right that it was right to protect him in the expansion draft. It was an asset move and it was the right move... once we let it come to that from lack of foresight. The mistake was letting it get there and not recognizing early enough that Ceci just isn't very good. We should have moved on from Ceci way before it ever came to that. We lost an asset because we held on to one we thought could turn it around, and he hasn't been able to. People are upset because our choice wasn't between two equal players, it was between an aging player and an inept one, and because of that situation, all we're left with is an overpaid bottom pairing dman who can't even outperform these kids making a million bucks each.

You are correct here for sure, forecasting for the future in Ottawa has been almost non existant since Melnyk came on the scene, knee jerk reaction to the problem of the day time after time after time.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

****ing Phanuef for not waiving his NMC during the expansion draft. Not a ****ing chance Vegas would of touched that dinosaur

I agree 100%.

Only Dion thought he would be susceptible to being selected.

But in hindsight, Methot, with his bad knees, was only able to manage 36 games, in the season after he was selected, and Dion played 79 games in the same season.

 

[bert]

I think when you revisit this poll its not really fair for the people that voted 'YES'. When anyone that actually voted 'YES' they were under the assumption that this team would re-sign not only Duchene but Karlsson etc and continue to try and build to win right now. If we knew that ownership was going for a one shot stanley cup by mortgaging the future knowing they had no intentions of retaining Karlsson then no one votes yes.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Technically rebuilding something. Sure I guess. But context is everything in this case. Rebuild implies the goal to restructure the team and get better in good faith. I could also say we are not going to experience the "building" phase of the rebuild. Instead we probably will be mired in a perpetual rebuilding phase where we are stuck in the beginning stages for quite some time as the owner tries to save cash due to dwindling revenues.

Semantics make my head hurt.

LMAO - You are saying that it is not a rebuild ...but it is! This is the beginning of a rebuild. We cannot say otherwise until it is over. (unless we take into account we do not have a draft pick in the first round, then it is not a good rebuild.)

 

[Upgrayedd]

I think when you revisit this poll its not really fair for the people that voted 'YES'. When anyone that actually voted 'YES' they were under the assumption that this team would re-sign not only Duchene but Karlsson etc and continue to try and build to win right now. If we knew that ownership was going for a one shot stanley cup by mortgaging the future knowing they had no intentions of retaining Karlsson then no one votes yes.

Agreed, at the time the full craziness had not been truly exposed. Building off our former core would have been the right thing to do for a competitive financially stable reasonably smart owner, alas we have the opposite, maybe if this team lasts another 25 years until year 50 we might finally see the Ottawa unicorn aka stable ownership taking control of the team!

 

[branch]

LMAO - You are saying that it is not a rebuild ...but it is! This is the beginning of a rebuild. We cannot say otherwise until it is over. (unless we take into account we do not have a draft pick in the first round, then it is not a good rebuild.)

Of course I take that small "minor" detail into account. It's crucial. In addition to that, just by virtue of them not deferring the pick EVEN when they knew well in advance that they were dealing Karlsson thus guaranteeing a marked decrease in overall team performance, I can say that that fact alone can completely strike out all doubt that they are not rebuilding in earnest. It was simply all just to cut costs. No f***ing team in their right mind chooses to rebuild without a lottery pic lmao. Are you aware of how ridiculous that sounds? It's like:

Buying a house sigh unseen before the home inspection with a 5% down payment
Quitting a job before you have another one lined up
Dumping a girl without having a back up plan ready to go
Shaving your head without knowing you have an unslightly birthmark
Rain on your wedding day

 

[HF Reader]

So Dorion went all-in and acquired Matt Duchene when three of his top 4 defensemen last year were Johnny Oduya, Cody Ceci and Dion Phaneuf?

Wouldn't it have been smarter, if we were going for it, to use the 1st + 3rd + Bowers to acquire a top 4 defenseman, filling the big hole Methot left, instead of trading it to improve our offense, which wasn't a problem?

Before we acquired Duchene, we were one of the highest scoring teams in the league. We had also allowed the most goals.

Why didn't we address that?

Perhaps Dorion hoped to address that problem (goals against) prior to the deadline but things collapsed, etc. I agree with you that it was a gamble and maybe a good one if he knew he was about to lose EK, Stone, Turris (Duchene) and would have no realistic chance for several years. So he took a shot. I didn't like the deal then, less so now, but I can see how he might have been thinking. At least I hope he was thinking.

 

[JD1]

Perhaps Dorion hoped to address that problem (goals against) prior to the deadline but things collapsed, etc. I agree with you that it was a gamble and maybe a good one if he knew he was about to lose EK, Stone, Turris (Duchene) and would have no realistic chance for several years. So he took a shot. I didn't like the deal then, less so now, but I can see how he might have been thinking. At least I hope he was thinking.

Teams load up at the TDL. When the Duchene trade was made we were in good shape. For sure the thinking was nurse this along to the TDL and assess the need at that point. The post trade collapse was not really predictable.

 

[NyQuil]

The outcome hinges on how Ottawa performs in the playoffs over the next two seasons.

That's the metric we're working with.

I see that you are pessimistic, but it's part of the "win-now" mentality that Dorion has adopted in light of Karlsson's approaching contract demands.

We keep hearing about how this team needs a #1 C, but they are rarely if ever available, and if they are, it's because something is wrong with them.

Ottawa rolled the dice on the only guy who is available. Do we really think that Bowers, the 1st or the 3rd would turn into a Matt Duchene? Of course not. Sometimes having a relatively full prospect cupboard gives you the flexibility to pull something like this off.

I think Dorion deserves credit for having the guts to go for it.

Too bad we got rid of Karlsson.

The ticking time bomb for this time in my mind was Andy.

We had no future immediate starting goalie in the pipeline, so it was try to win with Karlsson and Andy.

 

[Tuna99]

When the post was bumped it was 80-20 for making the trade and now it’s 55-45.

Lots of change of heart on this one. They say you need time to see who won or lost a trade - but losing Turris, Duchene and a lottery pick all within 14 months, brutal.

Fans haven’t had a chance to embrace Duch because of the state of the club and how little faith the fanbase has that management can keep players in town.

What’s more exciting, swinging for the fences and striking out in 3 pitches or working the count and getting a walk to 1st and stealing 2nd and moving the runner up.

Ottawa is a small ball team and wanted to be in the homerun contest.

 

[bdp]

This is the type of trade that sets a franchise back 5 years. Closest comparable is Kessel to Toronto in 2009, sunk the leafs for 7 years until they got lucky and won the lottery in 2016.

 

[bert]

When the post was bumped it was 80-20 for making the trade and now it’s 55-45.

Lots of change of heart on this one. They say you need time to see who won or lost a trade - but losing Turris, Duchene and a lottery pick all within 14 months, brutal.

Fans haven’t had a chance to embrace Duch because of the state of the club and how little faith the fanbase has that management can keep players in town.

What’s more exciting, swinging for the fences and striking out in 3 pitches or working the count and getting a walk to 1st and stealing 2nd and moving the runner up.

Ottawa is a small ball team and wanted to be in the homerun contest.

Like i said earlier the reason people believed in it was because the organization looked like they were commited to winning and retaining the players. We didnt know that management would be so stupid to try and rebuild without the first round pick. As soon as last year happened with no first they should have tried to win this season. This organization is a joke run by liars, cowards and morons.