Would You Have Made The Duchene Trade?

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think if ANYTHING has become abundantly, overwhelmingly apparent during the Dorion era, it's that he is utterly clueless about how to manage this aspect of the business.

This is a guy who was apparently completely ignorant of a borderline-mutinous locker room until it exploded in his face. The fact that he would operate in such a way that he was so blissfully unaware or ignorant of these potential scenarios that he neglected to plan for them doesn't surprise me in the least.

Dorion's a great scout... but his skill as a hockey man ends there, however. The rest of the job might as well be ancient Greek to him.

Amen. Preaching to the choir here.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Definitely not claiming the trade has worked out in any positive way for the Sens.. even less so if they get a fraction of what they gave back to get him but .. Duchene has been good

 

[Hale The Villain]

Dorion looks like another Mike Milbury at this point.

He's not that bad, but he's not far off either.

Turned a young 1B/2A center in Zibanejad (and a 2nd) into JBD, Gustavsson, Tychonick - none of whom will be as good
Traded a 50-60P center in Turris, a recent 1st round pick in Bowers, and a likely top 5 pick for Duchene, who isn't signing
Traded a 30-40G scoring winger in Hoffman for a mediocre bottom 6 forward in Boedker
Traded the best D in the league in Karlsson for a bunch of secondary pieces in Tierney, Norris, Balcers, DeMelo, 1st, 2nd
Traded a good young prospect in Dahlen for Burrows, who was absolutely finished

Worst trading GM in the league.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Definitely not claiming the trade has worked out in any positive way for the Sens.. even less so if they get a fraction of what they gave back to get him but .. Duchene has been good

I really don't think Duchene being good with Ottawa is a factor in determining how good the trade was considering if he's gone in a few weeks we'll have given up the farm for a season and a half of Duchene while we thread water.

 

[HSF]

the problem with the duchene deal is that management decided to trade karlsson two months after they went 'all in' for duchene LMAO

 

[Ice-Tray]

They're very peaceful when left alone, love to watch them do their thing when not hunting them lol.

Mule deer I assume in Victoria?
Waterton, Alberta, when I visited was interesting, not in the best way, they have a very high population of mule deer, and certain tourists were getting about 10ft from them, which generally are very tame as they are used to so many humans, but still very risky as you can spook them. One morning I did see a Doe start stalking a family with a dog that it felt threatened by, likely because she had two fawns with her, was a quick wake up call to a bunch of the tourists who didn't get as close afterwards.

I’m not too sure what kind they are to be honest, but they are certainly very comfortable in several neighbourhoods. It’s all very green in our area, but they walk undesturbed along and across roads where ever they wish to get at granny’s flower garden, or in our case the fresh new grass that grows in the patch where we put up our pool in the summer. It’s very true, they have a peaceful grace about them, and then you watch them effortlessly bound over your fence and away to another snacking spot.

In the spring there are fawns everywhere, with watchful does following so you alway have to be careful driving. They seem much bigger when you’re close up, and I definitely wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of those hoofs by getting to close to a baby.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

This trade was only worth how much we gave up for him if we didn't enter a rebuild in his second and potentially last year with us. If we had kept EK and was able to sign Duch and Stone, I'd be able to swallow giving up what we did. Under normal ownership, that would also mean not spending the bare minimum.

If it was clear to PD that we were going to be rebuilding at that time, and that Eugene wasn't going to give him the funds needed to remain competitive, then it was an incredibly stupid trade to make. If the idea was that we'd be able to retain our stars, I don't have a problem with it, given that he's a very clear upgrade on Turris, and a true number 1 centre.

 

[Tuna99]

Even if we kept EK I don't think we'd be a playoff team. Hard to say that now seeing the type of season he is having, but rebuild or not, Ottawa was going to be a not very good hockey team.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Even if we kept EK I don't think we'd be a playoff team. Hard to say that now seeing the type of season he is having, but rebuild or not, Ottawa was going to be a not very good hockey team.

Because Guy Boucher and the same coaching staff was brought back.

If you told a guy like Trotz that he would start a season with Karlsson, Stone and Duchene as his key veterans and Chabot, Tkachuk and White as his up-and-comers, I bet he'd be very confident about getting that team in the playoffs.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

the problem with the duchene deal is that management decided to trade karlsson two months after they went 'all in' for duchene LMAO

Imagine defending Melnyk and Dorion after this.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Even if we kept EK I don't think we'd be a playoff team. Hard to say that now seeing the type of season he is having, but rebuild or not, Ottawa was going to be a not very good hockey team.

I don't think we'd make the playoffs, but could we finish around 20? I mean 3 more wins than we have now takes us to a tie for 21st. If our pick to Colorado was between 10-15 and we get to keep Duchene, I think I'm okay with that.

 

[4thlineduster]

Because Guy Boucher and the same coaching staff was brought back.

If you told a guy like Trotz that he would start a season with Karlsson, Stone and Duchene as his key veterans and Chabot, Tkachuk and White as his up-and-comers, I bet he'd be very confident about getting that team in the playoffs.

My god....I never looked at it from this perspective.

This is one of the most accurate posts I’ve ever read

 

[BondraTime]

I don't think we'd make the playoffs, but could we finish around 20? I mean 3 more wins than we have now takes us to a tie for 21st. If our pick to Colorado was between 10-15 and we get to keep Duchene, I think I'm okay with that.

Our point totals aren't representative of how bad we are. We were getting points because of guys like Tierny, Lajoie, Tkachuk, Demelo scoring big goals, that's not sustainable. We stole so many points early in the season we had no business getting. We would get absolutely caved, but score 6 goals on 25 shots and win 6-5.

Now that our shot % has dropped to normalish levels, we are no longer getting points.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Our point totals aren't representative of how bad we are. We were getting points because of guys like Tierny, Lajoie, Tkachuk, Demelo scoring big goals, that's not sustainable. We stole so many points early in the season we had no business getting. We would get absolutely caved, but score 6 goals on 25 shots and win 6-5.

Now that our shot % has dropped to normalish levels, we are no longer getting points.

I don't disagree with you, but under normal circumstances with proper ownership, it's entirely possible that we made a signing or two in the off-season, particularly if we're not tanking and we're near the cap floor.

There are too many factors. We trade for Duchene if we're not rebuilding and can sign our stars. We keep Karlsson, which fixes 25 minutes of defense and puts Ceci where he belongs at #4. We create more offense with Ek. We sign one or two players in the off-season, not necessarily high impact, but that helps our depth.

It's kind of all or nothing, the Duchene trade was fine if we didn't enter rebuild mode. I feel we wouldn't be in the bottom 5 if the above happened, but even we we finished with a 5-10 pick going to Colorado, the trade turns from disastrous to tolerable for me (if he signs with us).

 

[coladin]

He's not that bad, but he's not far off either.

Turned a young 1B/2A center in Zibanejad (and a 2nd) into JBD, Gustavsson, Tychonick - none of whom will be as good
Traded a 50-60P center in Turris, a recent 1st round pick in Bowers, and a likely top 5 pick for Duchene, who isn't signing
Traded a 30-40G scoring winger in Hoffman for a mediocre bottom 6 forward in Boedker
Traded the best D in the league in Karlsson for a bunch of secondary pieces in Tierney, Norris, Balcers, DeMelo, 1st, 2nd
Traded a good young prospect in Dahlen for Burrows, who was absolutely finished

Worst trading GM in the league.

I liked the Zibanejad return because, IMO, he is not a winner. By all accounts, JBD is goingg to be really good. Gustavsson too.

At the time, was really happy with the Turris trade, and Duchene has not disappointed. Pleasure to watch. Sucks when he will leave, yes.

Hoffman , I agree. Dorion panicked trying to appease Karlsson camp.

There was never going to be a good return for Karlsson that anyone would have been happy with.

Dahlen still is behind a lot of our own prospects, and newly acquired, I am meh about it.

The Hoffman one is a bad move. The fact that Dorion could have at least waited until camp to trade Hoffman wouldn't have hurt. But, clearly, imo, they were trying to sign Karlsson is the only logical explanation. Karlsson was traded a day after camp started ffs, so Hoffman could have been here and the "problem" would have been dissolved with one of them leaving. of course, there could be more to the story, and I would think that the leaders of the team were aware of the move.

Hindsight is a wonderful tool for many around here. I am not a fan of it, personally, and try and look in the moment. And I understand many here didn't like the return at the time.

 

[BondraTime]

I liked the Zibanejad return because, IMO, he is not a winner. By all accounts, JBD is goingg to be really good. Gustavsson too.

At the time, was really happy with the Turris trade, and Duchene has not disappointed. Pleasure to watch. Sucks when he will leave, yes.

Hoffman , I agree. Dorion panicked trying to appease Karlsson camp.

There was never going to be a good return for Karlsson that anyone would have been happy with.

Dahlen still is behind a lot of our own prospects, and newly acquired, I am meh about it.

The Hoffman one is a bad move. The fact that Dorion could have at least waited until camp to trade Hoffman wouldn't have hurt. But, clearly, imo, they were trying to sign Karlsson is the only logical explanation. Karlsson was traded a day after camp started ffs, so Hoffman could have been here and the "problem" would have been dissolved with one of them leaving. of course, there could be more to the story, and I would think that the leaders of the team were aware of the move.

Hindsight is a wonderful tool for many around here. I am not a fan of it, personally, and try and look in the moment. And I understand many here didn't like the return at the time.

They said they decided to trade Karlsson in February (which coincides with Dorions Barbados adventure and extension).

Not sure how we can use trying to appease the Karlsson camp excuse when they knew he was being traded months before Hoffmans deal. That's what I had assumed was going on, but then saying they decided in February to trade him strikes that out.

Zibanejad trade if you work out everything turns into Zib + 33rd overall for 26th + 48th + Gus + 3rd.
With that 33rd we could have drafted Tyconik if we pleased, or anyone we had ranked above him. Very possible JBD is there as well, as he was ranked lower than that pick.

 

[topshelf15]

If it was a mistake to trade for him,wonder what the term would be to lose him from less than what you paid..Would be......lol

 

[DaveMatthew]

I liked the Zibanejad return because, IMO, he is not a winner. By all accounts, JBD is goingg to be really good. Gustavsson too.

At the time, was really happy with the Turris trade, and Duchene has not disappointed. Pleasure to watch. Sucks when he will leave, yes.

Hoffman , I agree. Dorion panicked trying to appease Karlsson camp.

There was never going to be a good return for Karlsson that anyone would have been happy with.

Dahlen still is behind a lot of our own prospects, and newly acquired, I am meh about it.

The Hoffman one is a bad move. The fact that Dorion could have at least waited until camp to trade Hoffman wouldn't have hurt. But, clearly, imo, they were trying to sign Karlsson is the only logical explanation. Karlsson was traded a day after camp started ffs, so Hoffman could have been here and the "problem" would have been dissolved with one of them leaving. of course, there could be more to the story, and I would think that the leaders of the team were aware of the move.

Hindsight is a wonderful tool for many around here. I am not a fan of it, personally, and try and look in the moment. And I understand many here didn't like the return at the time.

If you look in the moment, you cannot say that the Zibanejad for Brassard trade was good because 3 years later, we flipped Brassard for JBD and Gustavsson. You have to look at it as Zibanejad for Brassard.

The problem I have, and had, with both the Brassard and Duchene deals is that with both of them, PD did not address a roster need. All he did was upgrade a position that we were already relatively strong in, for a premium, while leaving other holes on the roster.

Let's take a look at the context of the Duchene trade, at the time.

Kyle Turris was coming off a season where he scored 27 goals, 55 points alongside 10 points in 19 playoff games. Was he a top end #1 center? No. But he was a good 1a with Brassard as a 1b. At the time, we also had a top 4 defense core than included Johnny Oduya, Cody Ceci and Dion Phaneuf.

If we were really looking to contend and "go for it", did our need for an upgrade at center outweigh our need for a top 4 defenseman? Absolutely not. And yet, Dorion spent so much capital to upgrade a position that didn't have a major hole.

Would we have had a better chance of making the playoffs and going on a run had we just kept Turris and traded our 1st + 3rd + Shane Bowers for a defenseman like Sami Vatanen?

 

[topshelf15]

If you look in the moment, you cannot say that the Zibanejad for Brassard trade was good because 3 years later, we flipped Brassard for JBD and Gustavsson. You have to look at it as Zibanejad for Brassard.

The problem I have, and had, with both the Brassard and Duchene deals is that with both of them, PD did not address a roster need. All he did was upgrade a position that we were already relatively strong in, for a premium, while leaving other holes on the roster.

Let's take a look at the context of the Duchene trade, at the time.

Kyle Turris was coming off a season where he scored 27 goals, 55 points alongside 10 points in 19 playoff games. Was he a top end #1 center? No. But he was a good 1a with Brassard as a 1b. At the time, we also had a top 4 defense core than included Johnny Oduya, Cody Ceci and Dion Phaneuf.

If we were really looking to contend and "go for it", did our need for an upgrade at center outweigh our need for a top 4 defenseman? Absolutely not. And yet, Dorion spent so much capital to upgrade a position that didn't have a major hole.

Would we have had a better chance of making the playoffs and going on a run had we just kept Turris and traded our 1st + 3rd + Shane Bowers for a defenseman like Sami Vatanen?

Because Zibby was due an extension,whats wrong with you man ???LOL

 

[BondraTime]

If we hadn't made the trade and then decided we needed to rebuild, we could be heading into 2019-20 with:

Tkachuk-Cozens/Hughes-Stone
Hoffman-White-Batherson
Dzingel-JGP-Ryan
Smith-Paul-Prospect
Kamenev

Girard-EK
Chabot-Lajoie
Jaros-Boro
Wolanin

Not to mention having an extra couple of 2nds and 3rds

Need to trade Hoff and Dzingel? There's a lot of extra futures, none of this Boedker shit.

 

[topshelf15]

If we hadn't made the trade and then decided we needed to rebuild, we could be heading into 2019-20 with:

Tkachuk-Cozens/Hughes-Stone
Hoffman-White-Batherson
Dzingel-JGP-Ryan
Smith-Paul-Prospect
Kamenev

Girard-EK
Chabot-Lajoie
Jaros-Boro
Wolanin

Not to mention having an extra couple of 2nds and 3rds

Yep ,looks far more like a calculated rebuild that has a solid plan in place....

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Because Zibby was due an extension,whats wrong with you man ???LOL

In hindsight, we should have just re-upped Turris and Zbad, since they're two players the Senators can reasonably expect to afford, unlike shooting for the moon with Duchene. Could have our top two centers at around 11 or 12 mil and still be reasonably competitive down the middle.

 

[topshelf15]

In hindsight, we should have just re-upped Turris and Zbad, since they're two players the Senators can reasonably expect to afford, unlike shooting for the moon with Duchene. Could have our top two centers at around 11 or 12 mil and still be reasonably competitive down the middle.

This is where the 2nd rounder becomes key ,the budget allowed for KT 3.5 mil and not a penny more...What was Brassards salary after his bonus was paid again???LOL

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Duchene 85 points in last 82 games is really something. Im really sure he and Batherson are gonna take off together but the idea of Duchene regressing terrrrrrrrrriffffiesssssss me bro.

In hindsight, we should have just re-upped Turris and Zbad, since they're two players the Senators can reasonably expect to afford, unlike shooting for the moon with Duchene. Could have our top two centers at around 11 or 12 mil and still be reasonably competitive down the middle.

In hind-sight no. Turris sucks. He'll score 2-3 really nice timely goals but do jack **** rest of the way. Who remembers the playoff run. He was as non-existent as Stone except for a couple goals. Zibanejad, sure; still young and has shown some fight in the playoffs at least.

 

[bert]

He's not that bad, but he's not far off either.

Turned a young 1B/2A center in Zibanejad (and a 2nd) into JBD, Gustavsson, Tychonick - none of whom will be as good
Traded a 50-60P center in Turris, a recent 1st round pick in Bowers, and a likely top 5 pick for Duchene, who isn't signing
Traded a 30-40G scoring winger in Hoffman for a mediocre bottom 6 forward in Boedker
Traded the best D in the league in Karlsson for a bunch of secondary pieces in Tierney, Norris, Balcers, DeMelo, 1st, 2nd
Traded a good young prospect in Dahlen for Burrows, who was absolutely finished

Worst trading GM in the league.

He is worse. He'll be in the conversation as s the worst GM in the history of hockey once the dust settles. After he gets taken to the cleaners or loses Duchene, Stone or Dzingel for nothing then they give up the pick with the best chance at first overall. He maybe responsible for the sens moving to another city and losing the franchise all together. I dont go to games anymore and I dont even watch them on t.v at this point.