Would another Rocket make OV the GOAT goalscorer?

[Jordan Belfort]

Never will he ever. This NHL is way easier to score in than the likes of forsberg, Hull, lafontaine, yzerman had to play in. And Ovi will never touch any of these guys in legacy

 

[txpd]

When Ovechkin reaches 894 career goals or scores 92 goals in a season, then he’ll have a case as the greatest goal scorer ever..

So, you are saying that if he scores 900 goals that there would be a case against him being the greatest goal scorer ever?

 

[txpd]

"in consideration" means more than one person considers this.

I am pretty sure that any conversation of the greatest of all time must wait until the end of that player's career is well within sight and final production reasonable to project.

I think Ovechkin will play til he is 40. 8 more years. He could win another or two Rockets. He could win another Hart. He could win another cup or more.

If he plays til 40, he still has 40% of his career left.

 

[gtrower]

Seriously? Okay... I'll play ball.

Those are some pretty nifty stats to be sure, and I'm sure Tuukka would happily swap career sv% and GAA with Roy in exchange for Roy's FOUR Stanley Cup Championships and THREE Conn Smythe awards.

Stanley Cup Championships: Roy 4 - Rask 1 (as a backup).

Conn Smythe Trophy: Roy 3 - Rask 0.

Vezina Trophy: Roy 3 - Rask 1.

Wins (reg season): Roy 551 - Rask 238.

Shutouts (reg season): Roy 66 - Rask 41.

Wins (postseason): Roy 151 - Rask 35.

Shutouts (postseason): Roy 23 - Rask 5.


Patrick Roy has all the stats that matter, in my opinion. To paraphrase an old NFL coach: Roy might not be in a class by himself, but whatever class he's in, it doesn't take long to call the roll.

I think you missed the point here. He was trying to use the Rask/Roy comparison to show that despite better career stats, nobody in their right mind would say Rask was better than Roy. Which is why adjusting stats for the era makes sense.

 

[daver]

Never will he ever. This NHL is way easier to score in than the likes of forsberg, Hull, lafontaine, yzerman had to play in. And Ovi will never touch any of these guys in legacy

So when did this fundamental change from really hard to easy happen? Specifically what season?

 

[DannyGallivan]

Let's say he wins his EIGHTH RR next year, would that make him the GOAT goalscorer? Consistency and supremacy has to come into play at some point.

If he wins another one, he will have surpassed Bobby Hull as leading the league in goals the most times in his career with eight (although Hull played eight seasons in the WHA, and had a realistic shot at one or two more himself). So, I would grant him that title if he achieves that. Personally, I think a few guys will finish ahead of him next year. He has his Cup and he's starting to get old.

For the record, I consider Bobby Hull the greatest goal scorer ever. I consider Mario Lemieux the greatest offensive player of all time. I consider Bobby Orr the greatest player of all time. I consider Sidney Crosby the greatest player of this era (which has overlapped - as eras do - with the next era currently led by Connor McDavid).

 

[Sabre the Win]

-Lemieux had 4 seasons ranked in the Top 20 All Time in Goal scoring including an 85 Goal season. And was plagued with Cancer and a spinal disc in his back. Ovi would never beat Mario in his prime. Never.

The NHL today is 50x's better and harder to play in then when Lemieux did. The level of competition now was non existent in the era of Lemieux and Gretzky.

 

[rfournier103]

I think you missed the point here. He was trying to use the Rask/Roy comparison to show that despite better career stats, nobody in their right mind would say Rask was better than Roy. Which is why adjusting stats for the era makes sense.

I got what he was trying to say, but I would have picked a different comparison. In MY OPINION, wins; shutouts; championships; and awards make a goalie great.

In terms of goal scoring, how many goals; and how long it took to get those goals are what I look at. That’s just me. To each his own, and these little debates are part of what make sports fun.

 

[Captain Bowie]

SO YES - A 45 GOAL RR TROPHY IS JUST AS IMPRESSIVE AS ANY OTHER.

That is over-simplifying.

Ovechkin's 2008 Rocket is more impressive than his 2018 Rocket.

Across the league, there were 2.78 goals per game in 2008, but 2.97 in 2018. Ovechkin scored 16 more goals in a year that goals were harder to come by, as well as won it by 13 goals in 2008 as opposed to 5 this year.

 

[Church Hill]

Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer in NHL history, and it's painfully obvious. Put him in the 80's and he scores 200 goals with one hand tied behind his back. Nobody can touch him and if you disagree you're just wrong.

 

[rfournier103]

Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer in NHL history, and it's painfully obvious. Put him in the 80's and he scores 200 goals with one hand tied behind his back. Nobody can touch him and if you disagree you're just wrong.

You know what? You’re right. You convinced me. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer in NHL history, and it's painfully obvious. Put him in the 80's and he scores 200 goals with one hand tied behind his back. Nobody can touch him and if you disagree you're just wrong.

So we're talking reality then. Ok.

 

[ManofSteel55]

So when did this fundamental change from really hard to easy happen? Specifically what season?

Gradual changes happen. I'm not suggesting that the previous poster was correct, but you are asking for information that doesn't exist because there has been gradual change in the game in many facets in that time period.

 

[Church Hill]

You know what? You’re right. You convinced me. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.

You're welcome

 

[rfournier103]

So, you are saying that if he scores 900 goals that there would be a case against him being the greatest goal scorer ever?

It would depend on how many seasons it took him to get 900.

If he got to 900 I would have a hard time not saying he’s the greatest goal scorer. I wish him luck.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Some people apparently have an extremely hard time dissociating "goal scorer" from "overall player".

Ovechkin being a better goal scorer than Wayne Gretzky is entirely possible. Wayne's goal-scoring was actually probably the least impressive of his god-like talents.

 

[daver]

Gradual changes happen. I'm not suggesting that the previous poster was correct, but you are asking for information that doesn't exist because there has been gradual change in the game in many facets in that time period.

Where is there any evidence that gradual changes have made it easier to score.

 

[daver]

Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer in NHL history, and it's painfully obvious. Put him in the 80's and he scores 200 goals with one hand tied behind his back. Nobody can touch him and if you disagree you're just wrong.

I assume you will recognize the best goalscorer in 2040 as being better than OV then?

 

[ManofSteel55]

Some people apparently have an extremely hard time dissociating "goal scorer" from "overall player".

Ovechkin being a better goal scorer than Wayne Gretzky is entirely possible. Wayne's goal-scoring was actually probably the least impressive of his god-like talents.[/QUOTE]

Wayne chose to be a playmaker because he knew that helped his team more. That didn't make his goal scoring ability any less impressive.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Where is there any evidence that gradual changes have made it easier to score.

"You are asking for information that doesn't exist"

response - "Show me evidence"

See the flaw here?

 

[SnizzNasty88]

He already is...get over it

 

[DannyGallivan]

Lol ain't no one bullying Ovi. He is bigger than 99% of those players from the 80s. Players are waaay better now than in the past. The average player is way better....competition is so much better and the goalies are the best ever. There is so much more space if you rewatch a game from the 80s....most the players are slow and look like bear leaguers.


Ovi is dropping 100 goals with ease.

Good one.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Wayne chose to be a playmaker because he knew that helped his team more. That didn't make his goal scoring ability any less impressive.

lol, oh boy

And what happens if I say, "Pavel Datsyuk held back on accumulating point totals because he knew defense would help his team more, that doesn't mean he wasn't as offensively good as Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin"?

 

[ManofSteel55]

lol, oh boy

And what happens if I say, "Pavel Datsyuk held back on accumulating point totals because he knew defense would help his team more, that doesn't mean he wasn't as offensively good as Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin"?

Then you would need to back your statement up with some evidence, as I could with Gretzky by pointing to his 9 50 goal seasons in 10 years, 4 consecutive years at 70+ goals, and that 92 goal season. Plus, if you have much familiarity with his career, you would remember that Gretzky shot the puck way more in his earlier years, and was much more inclined to pass it to his linemates in later years.

 

[Walt Comiskey]

As many here have said, he already is. Take the #1 individual goal total scored every year since OV is in the league, and his goal total is over 90% of it. I don't think any other player in the league has ever cracked 80% in their first 13 seasons.