WJC 2016 - Roster Talk

[FiLe]

I think the selection of the younger CHL D-men will largely depend on whether Jalonen is planning to run 6 or 8 defensemen. With 6 it's probably going to be just Saarijärvi and Juolevi from the CHL. With 8 Niemeläinen and/or Välimäki are probably on the team as well. All four seem to be doing really well at least on the scoreboard, though I'd like to hear some reports on their performance in the other end.

You don't seem to be aware that the amount of skaters allowed in a squad for the WJC is only 20, not 22 like in the men's tournament. So that alone pretty much ensures a 13+7 selection unless there is a coach who really likes to play high-stakes double-or-nothing with potential injuries during the tournament.

Jalonen has already reflected this fact, stating "I know we'll have seven good d-men in this team".

I think at this point there's really a consensus forming on the first six picks - namely, Tuulola, Niku, Saarijärvi, Juolevi, Mikkola and Sopanen. The seventh one is still up in the air, but I'd be a bit surprised if it was someone outside of Haaranen, Keskitalo, Vainio or Niemeläinen. If I were to guess right now, it's going to be Haaranen. Jalonen has really given him a plenty of TOI - as has HPK. He's been playing 15-20 minutes a night for them lately, which is just a little shy from what they're giving to Tuulola.

Why do people keep mentioning Moberg, btw? He hasn't featured in a single U20 event this year, and didn't make either of the teams playing over the NT break either. I'd say he can be safely written off.

 

[rduck1]

Why do people keep mentioning Moberg, btw? He hasn't featured in a single U20 event this year, and didn't make either of the teams playing over the NT break either. I'd say he can be safely written off.

I mentioned him as an option, mostly because I was listing people off the top of my head(and the teams I support tend to be closer to the top). He's eligible and pretty good, therefore an option, though a fairly unlikely one at this point. Simple as that.

As for the rest of the post, I guess that makes it next-to-certain that the six-player scenario I described materializes(though I don't think that roster rule makes an 8D-configuration unviable). That six man group is the exact one I had in mind, so no disagreements there. Wether it's Haaranen, Niemeläinen, Keskitalo, Välimäki or Vainio as the seventh, it's going to be a pretty good group I'm sure.

 

[Jussi]

You don't seem to be aware that the amount of skaters allowed in a squad for the WJC is only 20, not 22 like in the men's tournament. So that alone pretty much ensures a 13+7 selection unless there is a coach who really likes to play high-stakes double-or-nothing with potential injuries during the tournament.

Where did you get that from? We had 7 defensemen in the final vs Sweden in 2014.

 

[FiLe]

where did you get that from? We had 7 defensemen in the final vs sweden in 2014.

Um, yeah. Yes we did. Because 13+7 = 20. Or did you think I meant all players? In that case, FYI, term "skater" refers to outfield players, not goalies. The full strength of a team in WJC is 23 (as opposed to 25 on senior level). 20 skaters and three goalies.

Teams are allowed to dress 'em all. There just won't be any extra in the stands, save for the third goalie. I'll see if I can't find the official ruling on that. But in the meanwhile, you can start here and roll back. No more than 20 skaters listed in any of the squads. And that's not because they didn't add the extras.

 

[bebl]

What's wrong with a defense full of guys who are already Liiga regulars?

Saarijärvi-Tuulola
Mikkola-Juolevi
Niemeläinen-Niku
Keskitalo

This would be my defence but:

- Tuulola has been good lately but before that he has been playing worst hockey in his short career.

- Can Saarijärvi bring more than PP skills?

- I haven't been impressed how Niku has been playing this season.

- Keskitalo has only played 4 games in Liiga and 3:26 mins per game. Does someone have info about this?

- Sopanen's foot speed has not been that good though i haven't seen him this season.

- Haaranen just too small.

- I like Robin Salo he could be 7th guy too.

- Also like Vainio but he is not getting pp time and there are better choices to own end.

- Seems like Jalonen is not going to watch Välimäki in NA so he is not in list.

- I'm not familiar with Rouhiainen so i don't comment him.

That defense is young to WJC and don't have clear leaders + Niku and Tuulola has been only mediocre this season IMO. Few injuries and that defense is one of the worst in this tournament.

Fortunately offence and goalies are very good.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Saarijärvi-Tuulola
Mikkola-Juolevi
Niemeläinen-Niku
Keskitalo

This would be my defence but:

- Tuulola has been good lately but before that he has been playing worst hockey in his short career.

- Can Saarijärvi bring more than PP skills?

- I haven't been impressed how Niku has been playing this season.

- Keskitalo has only played 4 games in Liiga and 3:26 mins per game. Does someone have info about this?

- Sopanen's foot speed has not been that good though i haven't seen him this season.

- Haaranen just too small.

- I like Robin Salo he could be 7th guy too.

- Also like Vainio but he is not getting pp time and there are better choices to own end.

- Seems like Jalonen is not going to watch Välimäki in NA so he is not in list.

- I'm not familiar with Rouhiainen so i don't comment him.

That defense is young to WJC and don't have clear leaders + Niku and Tuulola has been only mediocre this season IMO. Few injuries and that defense is one of the worst in this tournament.

Fortunately offence and goalies are very good.

That's true, defense is big weakness for Finland.
If Finland wants to be, serious gold medal contender we need solid stay at home d mans ( Niko Mikkola, Markus Niemeläinen,Miro Karjalainen, Eetu Sopanen) in the team.

Saarijärvi and Niku are good pp d-mans but how's their defensive game.
They aren't big and they might be troubles, with bigger opponents in own defensive zone

That's why Bigger stay at home d-mans are needed.
Finland's doesn't have afford, to give a lot scoring chances for opponents.

In lake placid U20 tournament Finland's defensive game was horrible.
And same can't happen, in world juniors if we want win gold medal in our home ice.

Sebastian Moberg is probably out, for world juniors.
He isn't been any Finland's U20 events this season.

And what i saw him last season in HIFK, he was often in the troubles own defensive end.
Moberg is OK puck moving defenceman, but his defensive game needs a lot improving.

 

[FiLe]

That defense is young to WJC and don't have clear leaders + Niku and Tuulola has been only mediocre this season IMO. Few injuries and that defense is one of the worst in this tournament.

Fortunately offence and goalies are very good.

It would be relatively young in your particular setup, but if you oust Niemeläinen and replace him with Sopanen who will bring similar size and add some maturity, it's far from being notably young. Especially since Juolevi would be only player who's still U18 eligible. There's not a lot of depth, that much is true. So fingers crossed there won't any injuries. But if the "best seven" stay healthy, our back end should be far from garbage.

To allay some of the things you question...

-Tuulola in his basic form is good enough to be the #1 d-man in this team. If he's been "good" lately, then it means he's regaining that form.

-Saarijärvi has not had any defensive issues in the OHL, if his plus-minus is any indicator.

-Niku has been mediocre, true, but being mediocre among grown men can still translate to more than decent play among juniors.

-Keskitalo does not look like one of the obvious picks, so maybe we should take a closer look at his liabilities only if he makes it.

-Sopanen may not be the fastest player out there, but like any typical DD, he has sound positioning.

-Haaranen's size has me questioning his usefulness too, but this far, he seems to be doing just fine in Liiga despite it.

I guess the D is lacking that elite leading d-man prospect like Vatanen/Määttä/Ristolainen/Honka we've gotten used to in the past few years, but overall its skill level is still not too far from what's the usual average for us. Besides, I'm counting two or three names who can certainly rise to that occasion.
But if not, even a mediocre junior player playing in Liiga among men is decent enough package to pull his weight in the WJC. If Jalonen just can organize things properly in the back end, there shouldn't be much reason to worry. In which case winning games becomes the seemingly simple matter of outscoring ones opponent. And this is one of those rare years when that does not appear to be a major question mark.

That's true, defense is big weakness for Finland.
If Finland wants to be, serious gold medal contender we need solid stay at home d mans ( Niko Mikkola, Markus Niemeläinen,Miro Karjalainen, Eetu Sopanen) in the team.

Open your goddarn eyes. It's no bigger "weakness" than it is on an average year - the lack of those one or two shiny big names just makes it look so, especially in contrast of the offense. This is such bar corner hockey commenting, almost stereotypically so. The D could be better on paper, but there are no pushovers.

Since one can only bring seven d-men and no backups, that means the selection really needs to consist the best overall d-men we have, rather than simple defensive specialists. So it shouldn't become as a surprise to anybody if Sopanen and Mikkola are the only ones of the type who make it.

Also, there is a very simple formula for not allowing the opposition those dangerous scoring chances - win the puck possession battle. Jalonen happens to be a proponent of that style, and with the offense we have, we can certainly win that race.


Btw, fix those damn quotes. Both of you.

 

[rduck1]

I really don't see how defense can be considered a weakness. All of the likely selections have either been steady pros for a good while already or are leading players for their teams in the CHL. To top that off, Saarijärvi is leading the whole OHL in points among defensemen and producing over one point per game(which he also did in the U-18 tournament). Tuulola was also projected as one of our leading defenders for last years tournament, IIRC. We can't have the equivalent RR/Lindell/Pokka every year, but this group looks to me like a solid, balanced bunch with some serious high-end skill thrown in the mix.

 

[FiLe]

We can't have the equivalent RR/Lindell/Pokka every year, but this group looks to me like a solid, balanced bunch with some serious high-end skill thrown in the mix.

This, so much.

Come to think of it though, while the offense of that gold-winning 2014 group was pretty much hanging on Teräväinen, it did have a truly spectacular back end. Ristolainen, Lindell, Pokka, Honka, Mikko Vainonen and Juuso Vainio. And it was like this without Määttä, who was still eligible too. And on top of that, you can add Saros and Husso in net. So I guess people could be excused if they look at this year's group and feel it's not the same. (It's part hindsight too, since some of those guys only truly made a name of themselves after the tournament.)

But still, the 2016 edition has no pushovers either, so it's up to the guys to prove a heavily frontloaded team can do the same as the heavily backloaded one did two years ago.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

This, so much.

Come to think of it though, while the offense of that gold-winning 2014 group was pretty much hanging on Teräväinen, it did have a truly spectacular back end. Ristolainen, Lindell, Pokka, Honka, Mikko Vainonen and Juuso Vainio. And it was like this without Määttä, who was still eligible too. And on top of that, you can add Saros and Husso in net. So I guess people could be excused if they look at this year's group and feel it's not the same. (It's part hindsight too, sinc batlese some of those guys only truly made a name of themselves after the tournament.)

But still, the 2016 edition has no pushovers either, so it's up to the guys to prove a heavily frontloaded team can do the same as the heavily backloaded one did two years ago.

Have you never heard, next slogan?
Offense wins games but defense wins championships.

In defensive end, Finland doesn't have afford give a lot dangerous scoring chances.
That's why Finland needs solid defense, and they must win puck possession battles.

I don't know your expectations, but i don't wanna see Americans, Canadians, Swedes or Russians celebrating world junior gold our home ice.

That's why i hope we'll have, solid and stable defense.
I do trust for Jalonen, more than Jortikka.

By the way which players should be captains?
Here's my version.

C Juolevi
A Rantanen
A Saarijärvi

 

[rduck1]

C Juolevi
A Rantanen
A Saarijärvi

I think Juolevi is too young to be captain. Rantanen is the most likely C if he's available IMO. I suspect Kapanen will get a letter as well, though I fear it might do more harm than good. Hintz, Niku and Aho are the other players in their second tournaments. Tuulola and Saarijärvi are also possibilities.

As for the rest... Whatever it is that wins championships, it's not platitudes or Tami-isms. The defenders are good, as are all the other players. If everyone plays up to their potential, we'll go far. As far as winning gold?.. We'll see. There are always "better" teams in the tournament.

 

[FiLe]

Have you never heard, next slogan?
Offense wins games but defense wins championships.

Tell that to the Chicago Blackhawks and cut the jargon. Not that they've never had a bad defense - but they've certainly shown that you can win just fine with average defense, when paired with solid offense.

And no team can afford to give a lot of dangerous scoring chances or they'll lose the game. So that's more Captain Obvious kind of hockey "wisdom". And I'm relatively certain we don't give any more than we usually give. Which is very little. Lesser defenses than this year's iteration have fared just fine.

Our issue has usually been creating those chances ourselves. Luckily, this year's team seems rather well-equipped to avoid that age-old pitfall.

All I expect is a solid performance. How far that will take us is not known yet, but if we end up losing to a better team in the end, there is certainly no shame in that. It's always somebody's home tournament and home team does not always win. Actually, they do not more often than they do. I'm sure looking forward to actually having a team that does not have to beat the odds before beating their opponent, but you sound dangerously close to thinking we're entitled to win. That's never a healthy attitude.


As the letters go, I'm fairly certain that if Rantanen is going to be here, he will carry the C. A's ought to go to Tuulola and Hintz or Aho.

 

[Tormentor]

Hintz was the captain at U19 tournaments played in February and April. Rantanen was the captain at Lake Placid, at least in some of the games that is. It’s possible that Sopanen wore the letter ‘C’ in few games there as well. In addition at least Tuulola, Kiviranta, Aho and Rouhiainen have had the letter ‘A’ at some point during Jalonen’s reign. I’d say that Jalonen doesn’t know Kapanen well enough to give him a letter, and that’s not to say that Kapanen would be the best leadership material anyways.

Some thoughts about the D-situation:

Saarijärvi should easily be one of the top puck moving D’s in the whole tournament, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Sami Vatanen kind of impact from him. Juolevi is another great puck mover and just what this team needs to feed guys like Rantanen, Aho, Nättinen, Hintz, Puljujärvi, Laine and Kapanen up front. Niku makes some odd plays every now and then which might end up hurting the team, but all things considered he’s another good asset in the puck moving department.

Haaranen is small and not very strong, but he’s not that often in trouble because of it and I actually like him more than Mika Ilvonen who was on our WJC team last year. Haaranen is mobile, plus rather smart, poised and skilled. I’m not sure if there’s a big need for him if Saarijärvi, Juolevi and Niku are on the team, but I wouldn’t loose sleep from having him onboard, he’s a solid player.

Jalonen said that Mikkola was one of his favourites in Lake Placid and it’s true that he had a good showing there. He has size and enough attitude to be the boss in the defensive zone. Sopanen is another dependable giant who should be on the team, hopefully he stays healthy for a change now. Tuulola was much, much better year ago before his first knee injury. That said, he should still be an asset for this team in the right role.

Keskitalo lacks experience from games against men, but he’s still a pretty good option for Jalonen. Tell him to play simple and secure hockey, and that’s what you’ll see. Jalonen used him alongside Saarijärvi at the end of Lake Placid camp and this was a pretty good fit.

Barring injuries these 8 guys are probably our top alternatives for D:

Keskitalo - Saarijärvi
Juolevi - Sopanen
Mikkola - Niku
Tuulola - Haaranen

Välimäki and Niemeläinen are promising youngsters, but this year’s World Juniors might become too soon for them.

 

[FiLe]

Barring injuries these 8 guys are probably our top alternatives for D:

Keskitalo - Saarijärvi
Juolevi - Sopanen
Mikkola - Niku
Tuulola - Haaranen

Välimäki and Niemeläinen are promising youngsters, but this year’s World Juniors might become too soon for them.

Is that how you see the lineup shaping up, or are you just listing (in a rather odd manner) the guys who are the frontrunners for the final selection?

If the latter, I agree. Barring injuries, the final seven should be picked out of those eight. Well, unless Jalonen is as crazy about handednesses as some of the posters here. Saarijärvi happens to be the only one of them who plays with a right hook. That might open a chance for Vainio. But I personally think with the current selection of quality forwards, there's no need for another on PP. And on even strength, that kind of stuff is trivial.

 

[Jussi]

Um, yeah. Yes we did. Because 13+7 = 20. Or did you think I meant all players? In that case, FYI, term "skater" refers to outfield players, not goalies. The full strength of a team in WJC is 23 (as opposed to 25 on senior level). 20 skaters and three goalies.

Teams are allowed to dress 'em all. There just won't be any extra in the stands, save for the third goalie. I'll see if I can't find the official ruling on that. But in the meanwhile, you can start here and roll back. No more than 20 skaters listed in any of the squads. And that's not because they didn't add the extras.

The person you quoted was talking about Jalonen's style of using 4 full units (ie. 12 forwards and 8 defensemen) in games.

 

[FiLe]

The person you quoted was talking about Jalonen's style of using 4 full units (ie. 12 forwards and 8 defensemen) in games.

Yes, I know. And I also know the math that a team of 20 skaters can use that setup. It's just awfully risky, since a single forward injury means you don't have four full lines for the rest of the tournament. So it's a technical confirmation to the fact Jalonen's not going to use it (never mind us also having an actual one too) - which is maybe a shame, since I kinda like that style.

But the real question is, if that was what you were trying to say, how was I supposed to divine that from you asking after the 20-man-rule and then pointing out we had seven in 2014? All I saw in it was that you misunderstood something and asked how it was possible we had seven d-men in 2014. I even went back and checked if we originally had eight in the squad but one was sidelined from the final - nope. Just seven to begin with. Ristolainen, Pokka, Lindell, Honka, Vainonen, Vainio and Mikko Lehtonen.

 

[Tormentor]

Is that how you see the lineup shaping up, or are you just listing (in a rather odd manner) the guys who are the frontrunners for the final selection?

If the latter, I agree. Barring injuries, the final seven should be picked out of those eight. Well, unless Jalonen is as crazy about handednesses as some of the posters here. Saarijärvi happens to be the only one of them who plays with a right hook. That might open a chance for Vainio. But I personally think with the current selection of quality forwards, there's no need for another on PP. And on even strength, that kind of stuff is trivial.

This is very much a simplification, but each pairing has a puck mover (Saarijärvi, Juolevi, Niku and Haaranen) and a bigger guy with hopefully some shutdown ability (Keskitalo, Sopanen, Mikkola and Tuulola). As I mentioned before, Keskitalo-Saarijärvi played as a pairing at the end of Lake Placid camp and that seemed to be a pretty good fit. I started with that and tried to make the other pairings look balanced as well. Nothing more nothing less.

By the way, Sopanen is a rightie as well, not just Saarijärvi. To me Vainio is still too much of a risk on the ice, I hope Jalonen has more dependable options than him at the end.

 

[FiLe]

By the way, Sopanen is a rightie as well, not just Saarijärvi. To me Vainio is still too much of a risk on the ice, I hope Jalonen has more dependable options than him at the end.

I didn't really account Sopanen, because I don't think he's high on the list when puckmovers are accounted.

But if there is an opening for another right-hooked d-man to man the blueline, Vainio is next in line after Saarijärvi. But I don't think it will come that, given the deep selection of forwards who shoot from the right.

 

[bebl]

Tell that to the Chicago Blackhawks and cut the jargon. Not that they've never had a bad defense - but they've certainly shown that you can win just fine with average defense, when paired with solid offense.

Yep like Chicago never had avarage defence

And no team can afford to give a lot of dangerous scoring chances or they'll lose the game.

This defense is gonna give those chances.

 

[JJTT]

I didn't really account Sopanen, because I don't think he's high on the list when puckmovers are accounted.

But if there is an opening for another right-hooked d-man to man the blueline, Vainio is next in line after Saarijärvi. But I don't think it will come that, given the deep selection of forwards who shoot from the right.

No he is not. Arttu Pelli is much better option at this point.

Jalonen doesn't really care about handerness(is that even a word?) on the defense anyway so doesn't really matter. Some of the WC team's he coached had 8 left shooting defenseman.

 

[FiLe]

This defense is gonna give those chances.

Yeah, because it's such garbage when compared to the D corps we usually have at these tourn... no, wait, it's not. It's perfectly in line with what we usually have. But of course the bar corner analysts are going to think it doesn't hold a candle because they don't see plenty of names they instantly recognize.

Well, in January they will.

No he is not. Arttu Pelli is much better option at this point.

Jalonen doesn't really care about handerness(is that even a word?) on the defense anyway so doesn't really matter. Some of the WC team's he coached had 8 left shooting defenseman.

Pelli could feature, true.

But yeah, this is a moot point. I'm well aware that Jalonen (or any pro coach really) doesn't bother to put much emphasis on it. (One of those teams with eight lefties was the one 2011, btw.) He's going to pick the seven he thinks is the best overall and that's the end of it.

 

[Loffer]

The WJC is almost behind the corner. Wow. - I am suddenly expecting this team Finland to win it all. No excuses - but one: "Whatever you have to do find an excuse to win."

They can do it. And they will. Mark my words.

 

[kelsier]

If they got all the players and didn't have any last minute injuries, anything other than a gold medal would actually be a personal disappointment. This could turnout the best Finnish U20 team ever in the history if all cards fall in to place. We still lack that true #1 elite center but there's a lot of wingers to back it up. I know that's a lot of expectation, but on the other hand can't really help it.

We're still ~two months shy from the actual event so anything can happen (with the roster), but I have my fingers crossed.

 

[Opak]

This is my current view on the WJC roster, assuming that everyone will be available. There will probably be changes as the hockey season progresses.

Aho - Nättinen - Puljujärvi
Laine - Hintz - Rantanen
Lammikko - Saarela - Kapanen
Repo - Lämsä - Tammela
Hopponen

Out of the lineup: Kalapudas, Virta, E. Tuulola, Kiviranta, Palmu, Siikonen, Gymer, etc.


Tuulola - Saarijärvi
Niku - Vainio
Juolevi - Sopanen
Keskitalo - Mikkola

Out of the lineup: Moberg, Niemeläinen, Välimäki, Haaranen, Leskinen, Mattila, Reunanen, Vaakanainen, Felixson, etc.


Vehviläinen
Kähkönen
(Heljanko)

Movember lineup picks:


Aho - Saarela - Puljujärvi
Laine - Hintz - Rantanen
Lammikko - Nättinen - Kapanen
Hopponen - Honkanen - Repo
Kalapudas

Tuulola - Saarijärvi
Niku - Sopanen
Juolevi - Mikkola
Moberg - Vainio

Vehviläinen
Kähkönen
(Heljanko)

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Tell that to the Chicago Blackhawks and cut the jargon. Not that they've never had a bad defense - but they've certainly shown that you can win just fine with average defense, when paired with solid offense.

How can "average" defense let in less goals than any other team in the League? doesn't that sort of mean Chicago had the best defense?


http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20142015&sort=standingsGoalsAgainst&type=LEA