2Pair
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Prospect Info: With the #24 pick, the Wild select (D) Filip Johansson (Allsvenskan, Leksands IF)
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DANOZ28
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Dickie Dunn
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I knew a former NHL GM pretty well before he passed away, close friend of my FIL. Get a few drinks in them and they don’t shut up....lol. Honestly, i think the intel is just part of all the mis-information that gets shared. I guess I feel a little better after being convinced that they must really love this kid and see something others don’t.
ThatGuy22
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- Oct 11, 2011
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At the end of the day, I'm confident that this kid was the top of their board and their BPA.
We won't know if it's a good decision for a few years, and at that point it will either be a + or - in Fenton's ledger against him when we're all calling for him to be fired...
It's extremely likely. But it's one thing to fall in love with a prospect, it's quite different to have tunnel vision and not see the different possibilities out there. I think it's sometimes folly to be enamored by one prospect that all other options go out the window.
Different sport, I know. But when the Dallas Cowboys draft board was leaked a few years ago, they had Tyler Eifert, Sharrif Floyd, Bjoern Werner, Xavier Rhodes and Cordarrelle Patterson ranked as first round picks. They ended up moving to 31st and missed out on ALL of them. Tyler Eifert, Sharrif Floyd, Bjorn Werner, Xavier Rhodes and Cordarelle Patterson all went off the boards. People were laughing at Dallas, because they just missed out on 5 players they wanted, they were there, they could have any of them. And then they picked Travis Frederick, who they had a 2nd round pick grade on and most people dismissed.
5 years later, Bjoern Werner and Sharrif Floyd are busts. Patterson and Eifert never developed. The only player they might have regretted not taking is Rhodes, but they got an All-Pro Center (and 4 time Pro-Bowler) and a receiver who is better than Patterson.
My point is that being flexible is much more better than being locked in. So, if this team missed out on Johansson, but got a guy like Woo and Noel, would that be such a loss? I know, who knows? But better at 2 chances than 1.
But we've seen this fail time and again where a prospect is picked much higher than most 'experts' rank. Mcilrath comes to mind. You might get a Brent Burns every once in a while, but do you think the Bruins don't think, damn! Instead of picking DeBrusk and Senyshyn, why not Barzal, Connor or Boesner?
Dr Jan Itor
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For the life of me I don't understand how people can strongly favor amateur, consensus opinion over advice from paid professionals. It's like going to a doctor to get something looked at and when they give you a diagnosis you come back with "That's impossible, Wikipedia told me..." Doesn't mean the doctor's right, but I'll trust them over the internet.
ThatGuy22
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- Oct 11, 2011
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We have no idea what any of the potential offers would have been, with how varied the opinions on playets 10 through basically 50 were its entirely possible no one was offering enough to make it worth it.
As far as reaches alwaye busting part, a large portion of that is because we stop considering successful picks reaches once they are succesful.
In the same draft for the canucks, Bo Horvat was considered a big reach and Hunter Shinkirk was considered the steal of the draft.
Mark Shiefelle and Josh Morrissey were huge reaches for the Jets in back to back drafts.
Hampus Lindholm was another reach at the time.
I don't understand the easy dismissal of somebody probably next to none of you have seen play, because journalists and scouting conglomerates didn't notice anything special.
The Wild had eyes on the kid many times from what I've read, including Fenton.
Bob McKenzie, Craig Button, Central Scouting, and all the others can shove it. Given what Wild scouting has done the last few years with precious few picks speaks louder to me.
The Wild had eyes on the kid many times from what I've read, including Fenton.
Bob McKenzie, Craig Button, Central Scouting, and all the others can shove it. Given what Wild scouting has done the last few years with precious few picks speaks louder to me.
Because the amateurs agree with them and they don't like the pick...so the Wild must have screwed up...McKenzie says so!
And they agree with them because their opinion was based on those same amateurs' opinions. Round and round we go...
No, what I'm saying is the value of a prospect compared to the board in general. A lot of fans have argued that the last half of the 1st round is a crap shoot, so the question turns toward if it's such a crap shoot, why not get more chances by moving down? We won't know if Johansson was considered a tier above every other prospect taken below him and before McBain (he was rising as the 10th best prospect for CSS for their final ranking, but he was also 17th mid-term. So, who knows?). There are cases where a draft is shallow and you don't want to move down because there is a clear distinction between prospects, but this year felt fairly deep and even.
You don't need to ignore your draft board, but if Johansson is top 20, Bokk is top 30 and another prospect is top 40 and you get a chance to draft the top 30 and the top 40 is that better than a top 20 prospect? That's going to be the difficult part, but you don't ignore your draft board. Instead you work with your draft board to acquire what you think is the best combination of players.
As someone mentioned; remember Matt Kassian? We thought he was the best available prospect at the time in round 2. He did play for a while, but was that the best value?
Because some of those amateurs ARE paid professionals? As well, not all paid professionals make the best decisions. I mean, Doug Risebrough was a paid professional. Would you take his opinion on the roster?
Bo Horvat wasn't considered a big reach. He was a consensus 1st round pick and even I believe in the top 15/16 on most draft boards. He got picked what? 9th overall? Some movement is fine in the first round, like Brodin. But it's not like Horvat was some top 60/90 prospect that ended up taken in the 1st round. Mark Schiefele and Josh Morrissey were again ranked in the top top 15/20 of their draft slots and they were taken ahead probably of where most experts thought they should have gone, but it's not like Mark was some guy like Bussieres that the Canucks took out of no where.
Lindholm was not a reach. He was considered the best Swedish defenseman at the time.
We'll see; but they haven't been that good. We don't even know if Kaprizov is going to come over. 2014 outside of Belpedio, there is nothing left there. 2013 our best player was Soucy, and they took a 3rd round goon. 2012, they reached for Bussieres. Also without Dumba that class is bad. 2011...Brodin and? Remember they moved up to grab Lucia.
Also, we have depth issues every where. We had ONE RIGHT HANDED SHOT in the playoffs. Do we have anyone behind Staal that can take over for his production?
Yes, Craig Button is such an amateur - it's not like he had over a decade of experience in the NHL. It's not like the Wild haven't made ANY bad first round picks (remember their Director of Amateur Scouting hasn't been replaced in 18 years, and he's a paid professional!). I mean Phillips, and Gillies were great picks. And Granlund is doing so well as a center. Bulmer and Bussieres are great 3rd and 4th line players. Sheppard was also a great pick along with Pouliot and Kassian.
You don't just look at the rankings, but what the scouts are saying about the prospect.
Dr Jan Itor
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And Craig Button's decade of experience in the NHL had Lawson Crouse ahead of Matthew Barzal.
It's almost like nobody is perfect at this.
It's almost like nobody is perfect at this.
Wouldn't it be great if Filip turned out to be quite the player?
Ryan Murphy was drafted first round #12 in 2012, A highly-touted prospect.
Has not set the hockey world on fire yet - so you just never know how a highly-touted prospect or a "reach" is going to turn out...
Ryan Murphy was drafted first round #12 in 2012, A highly-touted prospect.
Has not set the hockey world on fire yet - so you just never know how a highly-touted prospect or a "reach" is going to turn out...
Same Craig Button who got rid of St. Louis too...gave away a Hall of Famer...ridiculous.
nickschultzfan
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- Jan 7, 2009
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Put aside the draft ranking.
Somebody make the argument why drafting a decent size, smooth skating, right shot Dman with quick puck retrivals, excellent gaps against professional men, and a high hockey IQ is a bad choice at the end of the 1st round.
I just don't see the real need for outrage.
Somebody make the argument why drafting a decent size, smooth skating, right shot Dman with quick puck retrivals, excellent gaps against professional men, and a high hockey IQ is a bad choice at the end of the 1st round.
I just don't see the real need for outrage.
When did the Wild last have a premium pick, or a full slate?
I'm talking recent past, and the Wild have done pretty well having 3 captains at the WJC just recently.
Button? You think he travels to Sweden, Russia, and all across Canada? Hah, the dude is just a media talking head now echoing the voices of the few people he trusts, probably none of which saw Johansson play, or maybe once at most.
Do you mean that a lot of the media guys get input from professional scouts? Or that some of the media guys follow and assess prospects basically full time? Both of those are true. I don't even necessarily think that the Wild's (or any other team's) individual scouts are better or more discerning than guys like Pronman. Even if we assume that everyone's about as good at it as everyone else there's a big difference: the professional scouts have a more limited territory that they cover and focus on. A guy like Pronman seems to do a monumental amount of work, but his coverage is basically the entire world. He's no doubt seen a guy like Johansson play, but how many minutes has he watched? How many orders of magnitude less has he watched than the European/SHL scouts from NHL teams?
Consensus on a lot of the higher-ranked CHL guys is probably pretty decent because those guys get watched a lot. But the sleepers? The Europeans and Russians? Even some of the Americans? That sort of broad, in depth coverage seems like what teams are really paying their scouting departments for.
MuckOG
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- May 18, 2012
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The reason many Wild fans are expressing angst over this pick is because of Flahr and Co.'s history of head scratchers in the top rounds such as Bussieres, Lucia and even Zach Phillips. Fans questioned the wisdom of these selections at the time and time has proven their concerns correct. On top of that, most of our draft picks, in general, going back to 2011 have had little to no impact in the NHL to this point outside of Brodin and Dumba.
This kid might turn out to be a good player, but given the recent track record of this scouting staff, I think it's natural to be quite skeptical.
This kid might turn out to be a good player, but given the recent track record of this scouting staff, I think it's natural to be quite skeptical.
DANOZ28
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its hilarious that some posters who claim you should pick BPA 100% support the wild going off the reservation. i dont get it.
Because the Wild thought he was the BPA available despite what amateur scouts say. I don't understand why that's hard to understand.
That doesn't mean everyone thinks it's a great pick or that we personally believe he was the BPA. But the Wild did, and they took him.
The entire question here is what "off the reservation" or "off list" or whatever means. Who's list? We don't know what the Wild's list was, but do we have any reason to believe Johansson wasn't at the top of it? If he was, why would we want them to defer to TSN or The Athletic? That's all most of us are asking.
I haven't even really seen anyone here (except a handful of Swedish posters that have actually watched him play) defend the pick as good. It's just not obviously terrible.
Dr Jan Itor
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They also have a history of taking Granlund, Brodin, Dumba, Tuch, Zucker and Greenway in the top rounds.
Fans are going to express angst over any pick that isn't the guy they wanted or the guy they've been told they should want.
Because like the real world, people believe their opinion is law. I would like to think that many on here (many of whom we've all been chatting for years on here) would do the "wait and see..." on any prospect. I don't have to go too far back when a good portion of this forum was writing off Zucker as an AHL caliber player. Or that trading Dumba was an intelligent move because he would never be more than a 5/6 Dman on the blue line.
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