Prospect Info: With the #24 pick, the Wild select (D) Filip Johansson (Allsvenskan, Leksands IF)

[57special]

What if every single one of the players drafted this past weekend were not full developed 17/18 year olds and could go either way?

No way!

 

[Dickie Dunn]

What if every single one of the players drafted this past weekend were not full developed 17/18 year olds and could go either way?

And? Its not like we can just start pulling names out of a hat either. Each of these players has a perceived value. Smart teams find value.....like the Wild seemed to do after round 1.

 

[TaLoN]

And? Its not like we can just start pulling names out of a hat either. Each of these players has a perceived value. Smart teams find value.....like the Wild seemed to do after round 1.

Exactly, it's the value of the pick that teams ultimately make the hay with.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

And? Its not like we can just start pulling names out of a hat either. Each of these players has a perceived value. Smart teams find value.....like the Wild seemed to do after round 1.

Smart teams find players. And it's yet to be determined if the guy that they picked is a player, or the guy you would've picked is a player.

 

[CROCODILE SEATS]

I saw that as well. Hamphus Lindholm put up more points though, and from what I've heard, apart from the hockey IQ, Johansson doesn't have the technical skills (stick handling, skating) as Lindholm.

I mean, I hope he can break out in a huge way too, but everything about his game is really raw and underwhelming at the moment.

Seems like they went off pure potential here. It’s not as bad as some make it out to be, hopefully he pans out and makes us all look dumb.

 

[AKL]

Seems like they went off pure potential here. It’s not as bad as some make it out to be, hopefully he pans out and makes us all look dumb.

I don’t see the pure potential angle either. Most people have this guy pegged as a second pairing defenseman at most.

You’re right though, maybe they saw something most people haven’t yet.

 

[BigT2002]

Smart teams find players. And it's yet to be determined if the guy that they picked is a player, or the guy you would've picked is a player.

Now stop being reasonable!

 

[hawkeerox]

To me, after the top 10-15 you really have a tough time time finding a sure-thing hocke player.
Choosing BPA actually does not necessarily always work either, since a BPA this year could be a cheese sandwich the following year if they do not improve much aka they already hit the ceiling.

I would like to think of choosing BAA - best athlete available. That means trainable, has the strength, potential, attitude, smarts etc to really grow. That is why McBain is a steal and so is Khovanov if he gets athletic again after the Hep A issue. These two may not be the BPA but I see the BAA all over the two of them. So, perhaps Filip is not the BPA for the Wild, but they see a sure-thing in terms of proceeding to the pros simply because of his IQ (whatever that means) and other traits that make an athlete elite.

 

[Bazeek]

To me, after the top 10-15 you really have a tough time time finding a sure-thing hocke player.
Choosing BPA actually does not necessarily always work either, since a BPA this year could be a cheese sandwich the following year if they do not improve much aka they already hit the ceiling.

I would like to think of choosing BAA - best athlete available. That means trainable, has the strength, potential, attitude, smarts etc to really grow. That is why McBain is a steal and so is Khovanov if he gets athletic again after the Hep A issue. These two may not be the BPA but I see the BAA all over the two of them. So, perhaps Filip is not the BPA for the Wild, but they see a sure-thing in terms of proceeding to the pros simply because of his IQ (whatever that means) and other traits that make an athlete elite.

This does jive pretty well with the post-draft commentary we heard from the Wild brass. Especially Flahr. Lots of "seeing the statue in the marble" type comments.

 

[thestonedkoala]

The issue I have is that this team lacks three major things; speed, a right-handed shot (our right wing depth is pathetic), and skilled forwards, especially at center (we got some wingers potentially, but they will need work). We can argue about team rankings and this and that, but Joe Veleno was sitting there. The only thing he doesn't have is the right-handed shot. But he was considered the fastest center in the draft and a skilled forward. Johansson, while has a high upside, has questionable skating and apparently lacks any elite or even stand-out skills. We argue about BPA, and when we have two sitting there? Bokk and Veleno, we go with a need pick? I know what the argument is going to be; maybe Minnesota had Johansson over Bokk and Veleno, but that just moves the goalpost because you can't argue against that and when they don't develop as well, another argument just pops up.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The issue I have is that this team lacks three major things; speed, a right-handed shot (our right wing depth is pathetic), and skilled forwards, especially at center (we got some wingers potentially, but they will need work). We can argue about team rankings and this and that, but Joe Veleno will sitting there. The only thing he doesn't have is the right-handed shot. But he was considered the fastest center in the draft and a skilled forward. Johansson, while has a high upside, has questionable skating and apparently lacks any elite or even stand-out skills. We argue about BPA, and when we have two sitting there? Bokk and Veleno, we go with a need pick? I know what the argument is going to be; maybe Minnesota had Johansson over Bokk and Veleno, but that just moves the goalpost because you can't argue against that and when they don't develop as well, another argument just pops up.

It's not moving the goalposts. It's a legit question that none of us will (likely) ever have the answer to.

The only thing I'm sure of is that we did not have Johansson ranked in the 50's or wherever everybody else put him. On who he was ahead of or behind, it's pointless to argue.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I feel like people need to go back and read Pronman's primer on how NHL draft boards work. This Johansson situation is exactly what he was talking about.

 

[Wild11MN]

I feel like people need to go back and read Pronman's primer on how NHL draft boards work. This Johansson situation is exactly what he was talking about.

Link? I'd like to read that. Assuming on the Athletic.

 

[Bazeek]

Link? I'd like to read that. Assuming on the Athletic.

Pronman: How NHL draft boards work

 

[ThatGuy22]

Pronman: How NHL draft boards work

The money part of the article to me is this paragraph (but read the whole thing, as it's a great article).

People who do real work on players, really break them down and have real opinions will not tend to conform to how the public thinks a draft board should look. I always say, if the public saw what most NHL team lists looked like, they would go crazy. I’ve been lucky enough to know NHL people who share that kind of information with me, and they also share similar experiences that 50s/60s on their boards is where their last picks tend to be. NHL teams often end up getting guys they have ranked in their top 40 in the third and fourth rounds because opinions vary so much among clubs.

So yes, the Wild likely did pick who in their opinion was the best player available and the top of their draft board. The Wild's hockey ops under Fletcher have always valued Hockey IQ extremely high, and Fenton based on his quotes/reports does as well. So it shouldn't be that surprising that they had Johansson much higher on their board than many teams.

 

[DANOZ28]

why couldn't we trade back and pick this off the board player maybe 10 spots lower adding a pick? wouldnt that have been the smart plan?

 

[Wild11MN]

Thanks, that was interesting. Crazy how he consistently showed that guys ranked in his top 40 were available in the later rounds of the draft.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

why couldn't we trade back and pick this off the board player maybe 10 spots lower adding a pick? wouldnt that have been the smart plan?

2nd round picks are very valuable, especially when the overall perception is that this is a deep draft with a lot of quality in the 15-45 range. As mentioned above, the Wild didn't likely reach to pick this player - they liked him and he was the top player on their board.

Blame Chuck Fletcher for the pick since he's the one who gave the 2nd (and more!) away for a few games of a guy who was redundant to the team and not a difference maker, and besides he's not around to hear it.

 

[Wild11MN]

why couldn't we trade back and pick this off the board player maybe 10 spots lower adding a pick? wouldnt that have been the smart plan?

Yes, if they were lukewarm on Johansson. We have to assume at this point that they were really high on him, and thus, didn't want to risk another team taking him.

 

[ThatGuy22]

why couldn't we trade back and pick this off the board player maybe 10 spots lower adding a pick? wouldnt that have been the smart plan?

It all depends on what other teams had Johansson high. We've got a quote from Pronman that he knew other teams had Johansson high as well. We don't know what teams those were, and 5 of the next 7 picks were defensemen.

It's possible they knew who those other teams were, one of them was behind them, and the offers of teams trying to move up weren't worth the risk in their mind of not getting their guy.

 

[MuckOG]

why couldn't we trade back and pick this off the board player maybe 10 spots lower adding a pick? wouldnt that have been the smart plan?

I could be mistaken, but I think I heard Fenton said they explored the idea of moving back a bit but couldn't find a trade partner willing to make it happen. He also said they had intel that Johansson was being targeting by another team right after the Wild's pick. Who knows what's true or what's not?

Normally I fall into the camp of the scouts know better than I. But I have to say that the Wild really went out on a limb with this pick as it seems (from the outside) most "experts" didn't think much of the player. Only time will tell who was right.

 

[DANOZ28]

anyone know how another team would get "intel" that a player was being targeted? i find it hard too believe that wouldn't be top secret dont you?

 

[ThatGuy22]

anyone know how another team would get "intel" that a player was being targeted? i find it hard too believe that would be top secret dont you?

With all the stuff that gets leaked out on a year round basis for basically every team, it should be pretty obvious that most of these organizations are hardly vaults of secrets.

The hockey and by extension scouting community is only so big, especially with in a given region. I'm sure our scouts in Sweden know what other Scouts for what teams were viewing the kid. And as much as i'm sure we'd like to think it's a hush-hush CIA like operation, Scouts talk. They sit together. They probably hit the hotel bar together. They talk about various players, compare notes. I'm sure they aren't giving each other their complete write ups by any means, but "what do you think of this kid's shot",etc.

On top of that, the Wild interviewed Johansson and probably spoke to his advisor. I'm sure "what other teams have you talked to" isn't an uncommon question.

I'm sure the Wild had a pretty good idea of what teams were interested in Johansson.

 

[Wild11MN]

anyone know how another team would get "intel" that a player was being targeted? i find it hard too believe that wouldn't be top secret dont you?

I was wondering the same thing. You always wonder if teams mess with each other by "leaking" fake interest in a certain player.

 

[2Pair]

The issue I have is that this team lacks three major things; speed, a right-handed shot (our right wing depth is pathetic), and skilled forwards, especially at center (we got some wingers potentially, but they will need work). We can argue about team rankings and this and that, but Joe Veleno was sitting there. The only thing he doesn't have is the right-handed shot. But he was considered the fastest center in the draft and a skilled forward. Johansson, while has a high upside, has questionable skating and apparently lacks any elite or even stand-out skills. We argue about BPA, and when we have two sitting there? Bokk and Veleno, we go with a need pick? I know what the argument is going to be; maybe Minnesota had Johansson over Bokk and Veleno, but that just moves the goalpost because you can't argue against that and when they don't develop as well, another argument just pops up.

Maybe? Are you serious? All 3 were available at 24. RW and C are much more of a need than RHD. Why the f*** would Johansson be the pick if he wasn't the higher ranked player?