With Crosby and Malkin’s success does Jagr deserve to have his number retired?

[Shady Machine]

He didn't just volunteer the information. He was asked about it directly. And he gave a totally PR answer. You can choose to interpret it however you want, as is generally the intention with comments like that. With Morehouse, the bottom line is always going to be about image and money. If it doesn't hurt the Pens and it makes them money, he'll do it. Currently, he would alienate a large enough portion of the folks who buy tickets that it's probably not going to happen any time soon.

You really think a large portion of the current Penguins fanbase would be pissed off if Jagr's number is retired? I highly doubt that.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

He played more than half of his career elsewhere so no.

It would be no even if Sid and Geno weren't Sid and Geno.

Guys like Letang and Fleury probably mean more to the organization and most fans and I am not even sure I would retire their numbers.

Even though he played half his career elsewhere, his time in Pittsburgh is what makes him a first ballot hall of famer. All his accomplishments were with the penguins.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don’t know. That’s tough in this day and age. How would you not retire 99 or 7 if you’re in edmonton or 77 if you’re in Boston (I know 99 is retired league wide, but it’s also retired in Edmonton).

Those are exceptions to the rule. They were pretty much set in stone before they ever left. No one is touching those totals for those respective teams.

 

[edog37]

One of my favorite things about our franchise is the lack of retired numbers.

Obviously, that goes hand in hand with our lack of early success, but still. Jagr was my favorite player growing up, I was heart broken when he left and eventually got over it while I still somewhat resent him for the Flyers move in 2012.

That being said, the Penguins retired number has been reserved for truly unique situations. Crosby and Malkin obviously will be retired they back to back’d while winning another cup and in terms of post season success have had far more than Jagr and Lemieux.

My question is does this taint Jagr’s Legacy? Obviously a fantastic player, crazy good moments like the Devils goal, the Hawks goal and the dominance of the late ‘90s and early 2000s, but he also had tons of attitude issues.

With the way Sid and Geno have represented this team in the past 10 or so years have they made a player (an equal honestly) like Jagr irrelevant in terms of team accolades?

Personally, I’m mixed. But when it comes down to it Lemieux, Crosby and Malkin were Penguins no matter what Sid and Geno do moving forward. Jagr was someone who played for the Penguins. In my opinion, he doesn’t deserve it.

Jagr tarnished his own legacy with his childish antics, it had nothing to do with Sid/Geno. Lemieux's legacy is beyond reproach & nothing Sid/Geno do can ever supplant it. That said, I imagine the organization would like to retire Jagr's number one day.

 

[edog37]

The standard that has been established is only those who have played their entire professional career for the Pens have had their number retired. So no.
That's not even getting in to all the drama he was in the center of while he was here. Good on him he grew up a bit for his second time around, but it still tarnishes his time as a Pen. And, let's be honest, if the team did decide to retire his number, what are the odds he would even bother to show up?

A very valid question...it would be interesting to see if he were to show up....

 

[Ogrezilla]

A very valid question...it would be interesting to see if he were to show up....

That's obviously a conversation that needs to happen first. If it was me, I'd tell him we want to do it. If he says no, he won't show up, then you don't retire his number. Only do it if he's on board with it.

People talk about him playing so long elsewhere, but he was here for a long time. He had his accomplishments here. 20 years from now when people talk about him, they'll think of his time with the Penguins first and foremost. Gretzky played the majority of his career on other teams than the Oilers too, but everyone remembers him primarily as an Oiler.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Even though he played half his career elsewhere, his time in Pittsburgh is what makes him a first ballot hall of famer. All his accomplishments were with the penguins.

Being GREAT as a Penguins is not the same as being a great PENGUIN.

The nuance is subtle, but to me, it is very important.

 

[DegenX]

You really think a large portion of the current Penguins fanbase would be pissed off if Jagr's number is retired? I highly doubt that.

What I said was "large enough portion of the folks who buy tickets". Paying customers. That's not most of the fanbase.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's obviously a conversation that needs to happen first. If it was me, I'd tell him we want to do it. If he says no, he won't show up, then you don't retire his number. Only do it if he's on board with it.

People talk about him playing so long elsewhere, but he was here for a long time. He had his accomplishments here. 20 years from now when people talk about him, they'll think of his time with the Penguins first and foremost. Gretzky played the majority of his career on other teams than the Oilers too, but everyone remembers him primarily as an Oiler.

Gretzky also cried when he got moved for cash.

Jagr asked to be moved and turned around and said f*** you to Shero after hinting about coming back and signed with literally our main rival culminating in embarrassing us in the playoffs.

I don’t know.. I’m trying to think of a similar thing. I mean, Roy is one I can think of, but the franchise was the issue there.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Gretzky also cried when he got moved for cash.

Jagr asked to be moved and turned around and said **** you to Shero after hinting about coming back and signed with literally our main rival culminating in embarrassing us in the playoffs.

I don’t know.. I’m trying to think of a similar thing. I mean, Roy is one I can think of, but the franchise was the issue there.

Roy is mostly about the franchise not being able to manage his gigantic ego, yes, but I'd still blame said ego for the messy divorce.

 

[Winger for Hire]

The franchise was the issue with Jagr as well. He was the best in the game at his prime and couldn't afford to even offer him a "hometown discount".

Asking to be traded afford the Pens the possibility to recoup something for him when he could have just walked away and left the team with memories and regret.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The franchise was the issue with Jagr as well. He was the best in the game at his prime and couldn't afford to even offer him a "hometown discount".

Asking to be traded afford the Pens the possibility to recoup something for him when he could have just walked away and left the team with memories and regret.

Having to trade away all of our good players for crap is on ownership, I agree.

Jagr's own attitude (dying alive) is his own doing.

If we were any other franchise but us and the Habs/Leafs, the question would be a no-brainer, but when the ONLY retired number is 66, the standard has to be insanely high. Doesn't mean we cannot have a Jagr night at some point, I just wouldn't put his number next to Lemieux's. Sid and Geno? Absolutely, especially if they are "lifers".

The Pens do not need to do this as a publicity stunt, we are not the Colorado Avalanche.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "dying alive" quote wasn't directed at the city and team, it was directed at Hlinka and his style of play and his lack of production under Hlinka's way of play and the league's style of play as a whole. He was also very upset with himself and his lackluster play.

It was very similar to Mario's "garage league" quote.

 

[DegenX]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "dying alive" quote wasn't directed at the city and team, it was directed at Hlinka and his style of play and his lack of production under Hlinka's way of play and the league's style of play as a whole. He was also very upset with himself and his lackluster play.

It was very similar to Mario's "garage league" quote.

And why was Hlinka the coach?

 

[Richard]

No no no and no and no no no

 

[Human]

Are people in here serious? 5 Rosses with 4 in a row means his jersey will be retired.

 

[Winger for Hire]

And why was Hlinka the coach?

Because Craig thought it would make him comfortable. I don't think Jagr handpicked Hlinka or even asked for a Czech coach. Of course, I was fairly young at the time and may have missed that. Jagr was a hotshot ~26 yr old on top of the hockey world living the life and being a ego driven young kid. I thought Hlinka was an attempt by the organization to bring him down to earth to focus and show, for the impending FA, that they will do what they can to make him the top priority of the team in everything but salary.

 

[Ignatius]

Unequivocally YES, #68 should be hanging in the rafters in Pittsburgh.

 

[DanielPlainview]

With the popularity of hot dogs and pizza, should concession stands stop selling popcorn?

 

[Shady Machine]

What I said was "large enough portion of the folks who buy tickets". Paying customers. That's not most of the fanbase.

Even still, I totally disagree. Ticket prices for the jersey retirement game would be worth a fair amount on secondary market and I could see merch sales as well.

Time will heal any material outstanding ill will.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Gretzky also cried when he got moved for cash.

Jagr asked to be moved and turned around and said **** you to Shero after hinting about coming back and signed with literally our main rival culminating in embarrassing us in the playoffs.

I don’t know.. I’m trying to think of a similar thing. I mean, Roy is one I can think of, but the franchise was the issue there.

Eh, maybe I was too young to take it personally when he left the first time. And I don't hold it against him at all about Philly. He did nothing wrong that time at all.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I've let it go a while back with his comments the year he wanted out. I understand why he wanted out, both sides handled it poorly.

Jagr is a legend, the god like stuff he did in a Pens uniform is HHOF material, most teams would be lucky to even have that kind of player for as long as we did. #68 belongs up there with #66 and #21

 

[Ogrezilla]

Being GREAT as a Penguins is not the same as being a great PENGUIN.

The nuance is subtle, but to me, it is very important.

25 years from now when people discuss Jagr in a discussion about the greats, they will be thinking of him in a Pens jersey.

 

[Victor Z]

Having to trade away all of our good players for crap is on ownership, I agree.

Jagr's own attitude (dying alive) is his own doing.

If we were any other franchise but us and the Habs/Leafs, the question would be a no-brainer, but when the ONLY retired number is 66, the standard has to be insanely high. Doesn't mean we cannot have a Jagr night at some point, I just wouldn't put his number next to Lemieux's. Sid and Geno? Absolutely, especially if they are "lifers".

The Pens do not need to do this as a publicity stunt, we are not the Colorado Avalanche.

Another retired number is Michel Briere's #21; Briere was supposed to become the Pens' first home-grown superstar player until he was tragically injured in an automobile accident after his rookie season & passed away a year later without ever (IIRC) emerging from a coma.

 

[RichWVU]

What gets me is what gets most of us - the sheer number of teams he has played for...

Yeah, same. I feel like a player should immediately be linked to a team to have their number retired. I don't think Farve or Malone are good examples, just because no one pictures them in anything other than Packers/Jazz jerseys. Johnson might be a better comp as he basically had a hall of fame career with both the Ms and the Dbacks. Jagr's best years were certainly with the Pens, but he didn't even play half of his career in Pittsburgh. Maybe the run of Art Ross trophies is a unique enough achievement to warrant a retired number though.