zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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Line Combos: With A Healthy Forward Corps Now (sans Kozun), What Line Combos Do You Expect To See?
- Thread starter mikeyz
- Start date
I still like Kessel and Bozak separated:
Winnick/Kadri/Kess production - skill/speed/small power (Winnick?)
JVR/Bozak/Lupul - production - skill/speed/small power -JVR/Lups more physical w/o Kessel
Komo/Holland/Santos - shut down/2ndary production - speed/skill/energy/grit
Booth/Smith/Clarkson/Panik/Leivo energy/defense/little grit with Clarkson (lacking power/physicality)
We're always compensating for a power center. A power center would give us so many better options and alter the dynamic of our top 9.
Or switch Winnick and Lupul - both can play off wing comfortably; maybe Winnick isn't skilled enough for Kess/Kadri!
Winnick/Kadri/Kess production - skill/speed/small power (Winnick?)
JVR/Bozak/Lupul - production - skill/speed/small power -JVR/Lups more physical w/o Kessel
Komo/Holland/Santos - shut down/2ndary production - speed/skill/energy/grit
Booth/Smith/Clarkson/Panik/Leivo energy/defense/little grit with Clarkson (lacking power/physicality)
We're always compensating for a power center. A power center would give us so many better options and alter the dynamic of our top 9.
Or switch Winnick and Lupul - both can play off wing comfortably; maybe Winnick isn't skilled enough for Kess/Kadri!
Last edited:
Al14
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2007
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Bozak and Kessel can't be separated! They live together.
Who is this Lupol guy? I've heard of Lupul, but not Lupol.
wow the underappreciation for a guy like Trevor Smith is unreal on these boards.
He's a 4th line centre. His job is to shut out the opposition. He's one of our best pk guys. Just cause he's not a high scoring forward people want him out. You need a tough 4th line that can kill time. Smith is one of the best on the team at that and arguably the best at fighting for the puck along the boards.
If anyone should be scratched it's david freaking booth. What the hell has this guy done to earn this spot anyways with all due respect?
If I were u guys I'd respect Trevor Smith. He does Winnik's job probably not as good offensively and next year when Winnik will be asking for 3 million dollars for a bottom six role it would be much smarter to resign smith for 500k-1million.
Defense wins games.
He's a 4th line centre. His job is to shut out the opposition. He's one of our best pk guys. Just cause he's not a high scoring forward people want him out. You need a tough 4th line that can kill time. Smith is one of the best on the team at that and arguably the best at fighting for the puck along the boards.
If anyone should be scratched it's david freaking booth. What the hell has this guy done to earn this spot anyways with all due respect?
If I were u guys I'd respect Trevor Smith. He does Winnik's job probably not as good offensively and next year when Winnik will be asking for 3 million dollars for a bottom six role it would be much smarter to resign smith for 500k-1million.
Defense wins games.
It's great to see the Leafs doubling down on the stupidity of Clarkson's contract. It is well beyond stupid to keep playing this low skilled player on the second line and especially the pp. I guess this is why Nonuts loves Randy so much.
Hey, you guys screwed up with that contract. No sense in making it worse by giving the guy tons of completely undeserved ice time.
Hey, you guys screwed up with that contract. No sense in making it worse by giving the guy tons of completely undeserved ice time.
Al14
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2007
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I agree somewhat, however, Clarkson did well playing with skilled players in the past. If there was any chance at moving him in a trade, it would be wise to try and give him enough ice time in order for him to find a groove and improve his trade possibilities.
This may be all in vain, but, you've got to give Clarkson enough playing time to see if he can earn some of that ridiculous contract. No?
Mess
Global Moderator
The contract aside, Clarkson has been playing fairly well this year and contributing.
He has 6 goals (@ 1/4 mark) already and that is more than he had all of last season and on pace for +20 goals on the season.
Damisoph
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2010
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Undeserved? He's been pretty good this year so far.
He may not be as skilled as his linemates, but there's only one puck to go around and his job is not to handle it on the PP.
Wow, so many ppl freaking out about that 4th line. Booth and Lupul are coming back from injuries, it's not like Carlyle is going to keep that line playing 5mins a game for the rest of the season. Once Lupul is back up to speed (2 games max imo), he'll be back in the top 6.
senor martinez
Komarov's cohonez
- Oct 1, 2014
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He's been better yeah and that confidence is really blooming nicely. Wants the puck and keep that often. He's also getting a lot of shots if I remember correctly. He's been that manly man though and I likes that.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Roll these four lines:
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Kadri Booth
Komarov Holland Clarkson
Winnik Santorelli Kozun
We could have one of the best fourth lines in the NHL, and a very balanced attack with the right mix of grit and talent.
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Kadri Booth
Komarov Holland Clarkson
Winnik Santorelli Kozun
We could have one of the best fourth lines in the NHL, and a very balanced attack with the right mix of grit and talent.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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He's on pace for 27pts, even though he's 5th of the forwards in ES+PP icetime.
Even if this is clarkson playing "fairly well", he's still been arguably the worst forward on the roster.
Even Strength
1. Kessel 316:29, 16pts (3.03pts/60)
2. Komarov 264:43, 11pts (2.49pts/60)
3. Winnik 228:48, 9pts (2.36pts/60)
4. Bozak 316:34, 10pts (1.90pts/60)
5. Kadri 285:01, 9pts (1.90pts/60)
6. VanRyk 317:52, 10pts (1.89pts/60)
7. Santo 264:32, 8pts (1.82pts/60)
8. Panik 174:16, 5pts (1.72pts/60)
9. Kozun 37:07, 1pts (1.62pts/60)
10. Holland 218:21, 5pts (1.37pts/60)
11. Clarkson 275:49, 6pts (1.31pts/60)
12. Smith 55:21, 1pts (1.08pts/60)
13. Leivo 60:30, 1pts (0.99pts/60)
14. Lupul 138:47, 2pts (0.87pts/60)
15. Frattin 41:49, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
16. Carrick 27:50, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
17. Ashton 18:27, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
Power Play
1. Santorelli 2:57, 1pts (20.34pts/60)
2. Komarov 3:05, 1pts (18.24pts/60)
3. Bozak 68:28, 8pts (7.01pts/60)
4. Kessel 73:06, 7pts (5.75pts/60)
5. VanRyk 69:09, 6pts (5.21pts/60)
6. Holland 26:30, 2pts (4.53pts/60)
7. Lupul 24:37, 1pts (2.44pts/60)
8. Clarkson 49:59, 1pts (1.20pts/60)
9. Kadri 53:36, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
10. Panik 2:00, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
11. Smith 1:07, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
12. Leivo 0:53, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
13. Winnik 0:15, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
14. Frattin 0:11, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
15. Kozun 0:08, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
16. Ashton 0:00, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
17. Carrick 0:00, 0pts (0.00pts/60)
and of course, he's too slow to be any good defensively at even strength, and definitely can never go near a PK unit.
Winnik is listed as a center and has played center in the past. Likely he will end up at that spot once Lupul is moved up in the lineup.
So he gets more points than 6 guys at even strength and is top half on PP -- ahead of Kadri -- but he is the "worst forward". Right, gotcha.
showtime8
Registered User
I like the idea of having Booth on the 4th line.
He hasn't seen real game action at all. He got injured in the pre-season (which wasn't against true competition) and has only played in practice. No need to rush him into anything, especially if he's going to have to go up against a Crosby or Malkin.
He hasn't seen real game action at all. He got injured in the pre-season (which wasn't against true competition) and has only played in practice. No need to rush him into anything, especially if he's going to have to go up against a Crosby or Malkin.
intangibles though.
i'm actually being serious. he doesn't have a lot of assists because he likes to be the guy in front of the net. there have been a number of goals scored where clarkson was screening the goalie and even though it doesn't show up on the scoreboard, he's still contributing.
Clarkson has been great when he's on a checking line with guys like Winnik, Santorelli, Komorov and Holland. We still wasted a few games where we put him with Kadri.
The point is that these guys make a solid line that are forechecking and playing hard and that's the reason we brought him to Toronto. We wanted him in that role because we already have lots of guys who can put up points.
So I think he's doing his job well this season. He's getting goals even though he's not playing with elite players.
Clarkson plays well with big guys who like to cycle. I think a player like Joe Thorton would be his perfect centre because they would be a big line that is tough to handle and Thorton can make the passes and Clarkson can get off a quick wrist shot. But since we don't have a Joe Thorton type of centre, Clarkson fits best with Holland, Winnik, Santorelli, etc. And when we play him in a 3rd line checking role, we can't expect a ton of points... but he's getting some goals and is doing great on the forecheck/cycle so I think we should be happy with his play.
Also, he scored that first goal after the 9-2 loss... which in hindsight doesn't look significant because we won the game easily.... but I think it really helps to get the first goal in that sort of game... so I feel like he's doing a lot of those "intangible" things that we all joked about last year.
Not going to say that he's worth his contract... but he's easily worth 3 or 3.5. And I think the Kulemin and Bolland contracts are pretty comparable to Clarkson. If we had to have one of those 3 contracts, I would actually still probably take Clarkson because I'd rather him on the team over those other two. (And I never liked Grabo... so I'd still take Clarkson over Grabo even though most would disagree... cause I like Bozak, Kadri, Holland and Santorlli more than Grabo... and I like a big tough winger over a guy who constantly gets run over).
With 1 point? Non of those other players even play on the PP! He's actually in second last.
Semantics
PUBLIC ENEMY #1
Using last year's numbers since there's a larger sample size and since Clarkson didn't always play on the second unit like he has this year...
Last year the second PP unit got 20% fewer shots per minute when Clarkson was on it (the PP as a whole got 30% fewer). Usually when you have a guy "wreaking havoc" in front you'd want to shoot more. Is Clarkson THAT good at standing in front of the net that it's worth getting 20% fewer shots?
Does having Clarkson standing in front of the net make each shot shot 25% more likely to go in on average vs having someone else standing in front? Because that's what it would take just to match the number of goals we'd score without him.
Even more alarming: the second unit PP's shooting percentage was around 14.63% overall, but only 8.57% with Clarkson, which was by far the lowest on the team. So it seems that not only does having Clarkson on the PP result in way fewer shots, but we're also way less likely to score on them. So Clarkson, apparently, isn't even the slightest bit effective at his role. At least, with the group of players and systems we have.
kadri doesn't play on the PP?
Don't pretend Clarkson gets a ton of PP time either. He certainly doesn't get more than Kadri.
Seriously, lets use stats to prove a point, but when the stats prove wrong -- let's argue the fact?
"Second Last" does not mean last. Clearly Kadri is behind him, but after Kadri the jump goes from 58 minutes to 2.
He's scored in the NHL before. Something Smith has never done with regularity.
He also hasn't played a shift yet. Don't you think he should get a game or two before you roast him?
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