Post-Game Talk: With 58% odds to pick 7th or 8th, Vancouver will select... 7th in the 2018 NHL Draft

[CanaFan]

???

No. You keep filling the pipeline with prospects obviously. With Tavares here however, I just think the prospects (even if they come from lower parts of the draft), come into a much healthier and motivated environment.

Again - it just all comes down to what you think is a better way of rebuilding:

Option #1: Be a bottom feeder for years on end, with the hope that you "win the lottery" and draft a Generational Superstar or enough High end franchise stars to carry your team forward.

Option #2: Create a solid environment where a young team is consistently pushing for and making the playoffs. Draft players and prospects from the middle rounds, and inject them into a young and motivated environment.........lead by the likes of Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, and what will hopefully be a core defensive piece from this draft.

Many on here think that #1 is better. I personally believe that #2 is better. More times than not, #1 leads to a "dead" internal atmosphere and players that have lost their spirit. Teams like Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, etc., etc. have been unfortunate examples of this. More times than not, the "success" stories that come out of option #1 are from organizations that have been in a rut for over 10+ years. The people that are praising a team like Winnipeg now, aren't factoring in the years of abuse they took.

FYI - Vancouver's current best player was drafted at #23. What does that tell you?

Take a look at Boston right now and how quickly they turned things around. Draft picks and prospects drafted pretty much anywhere but the top...........and are now surrounded by a great leadership group that consists of Bergeron, Krejci, Chara, and Marchand.

Pointing out other teams that have done it doesn’t mean we can do it. I mean, Benning’s been here since 2014. Most of Boston’s young core have been drafted since 2014.

Tavares does little besides move us from drafting top 7 to drafting 10-15. Still not a playoff team, not with this defense. And now we waste 4 years trying to chase playoffs - which for Benning means trading for guys like Prust, Sutter, and Gudbranson and signing UFAs like Eriksson - rather than actually focus on building up our young talent base and augmenting what we’ve got currently.

You constantly want to skip the difficult parts of a rebuild and simply UFA your way back to the playoffs. This is why I think you should be a fan of Calgary’s rebuild. They didn’t spend long at the bottom and got back into playoffs relatively fast. Look at how all that playoff experience paid off for them this year!

 

[Horse McHindu]

If we had not ueleslly won two of the final couple a games wed be picking third and have our choice of

Zadina
Wahlstorm
Boquist
Kotkaniemi

Let that sink in for a second

The Canucks will likely have a shot at both Wahlstrom and Kotkaniemi even at the #7 spot.

My personal opinion is that Zadina is overrated, and will be the Brett Connolly/Jesse Pulijiujarvi of this draft (not saying that Puljiu is a bust mind you, but he's taken a lot longer to develop than the guys drafted around him.........I think Zadina will be "that guy" in this draft).

In my opinion, Dahlin (Lidstrom with flair) and Svech (Tarasenko) are the two guys that are well above everyone else...........but again, even if we had finished 2nd or 3rd worst, we wouldn't have been able to draft those guys anyways. And lord knows that we were going to out-tank Buffalo even if we lost almost all our games.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Tavares does little besides move us from drafting top 7 to drafting 10-15. Still not a playoff team, not with this defense. And now we waste 4 years trying to chase playoffs

Under my proposed plan, we’d also offer the [gross overpayment + shorter term deal] to Mike Green (2-3 year deal).

That, combined with what would likely be the emergence of some of our young guys in 1-2 years (Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, etc) would make us a playoff team in my opinion.

You constantly want to skip the difficult parts of a rebuild and simply UFA your way back to the playoffs. This is why I think you should be a fan of Calgary’s rebuild. They didn’t spend long at the bottom and got back into playoffs relatively fast. Look at how all that playoff experience paid off for them this year!

I think there needs to be a balance between bottoming out and rising too early (Calgary). While bottoming out does help a team land franchise players (as Vancouver seems to have done with Pettersson), staying on the bottom too long starts to hurt player morale around the core that you’re trying to build around. This is what I feel is a concept lost by many of the anti-Benning crowd on here.

If the players of a team go into a season knowing that they have little or no chance of making the playoff, it greatly affects morale, motivation, etc. that’s why I believe that you should always ‘dangle that carrot’ and have an active presence in the UFA market.

And again, I re-iterate the following:

1) We saw where we drafted Brock Boeser a few years ago.

2) Pettersson was drafted at #5

3) Where did Adam Gaudette come from?

4) Jonathan Dahlen?

5) How did Carolina do this year? Where did they end up in the lottery? What about New Jersey and Philadelphia in previous years?

Never deliberately tank. Always strive to make the playoffs without sacrificing the future. That’s my motto.

 

[dwarf]

Will any of that top 4 win a cup without a solid supporting cast that is drafted high? Probably not in Van. Just ask Rick Vaive, Cam Neely, Pavel Bure, and Ryan Kesler. You can draft the best players but if there is no team to win with, they won't be around.

 

[604]

Jesperi Kotkaniemi

Worth a gamble at 7?

Seems like a real potential home run pick.

 

[604]

Tavares coming here gets us into the playoffs.

Even in the unrealistic world where we sign both Tavares + Carlson we would not be a playoff team IMO.

Baertschi - Tavares - Boeser
Gagner - Horvat - Petterson
Eriksson - Sutter - Granlund
Virtanen - Gaunce - Leipsic
Archibald - Goldobin

Edler - Carlson
Del Zotto - Tanev
Gudbransson - Stecher
Biega

Markstrom
Nilsson

Is still a tire fire of a team.

 

[WigWam]

Jesperi Kotkaniemi

Worth a gamble at 7?

Seems like a real potential home run pick.

I think he would be pretty safe pick.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Even in the unrealistic world where we sign both Tavares + Carlson we would not be a playoff team IMO.

Baertschi - Tavares - Boeser
Gagner - Horvat - Petterson
Eriksson - Sutter - Granlund
Virtanen - Gaunce - Leipsic
Archibald - Goldobin

Edler - Carlson
Del Zotto - Tanev
Gudbransson - Stecher
Biega

Markstrom
Nilsson

Is still a tire fire of a team.

I’m not sure I’d go as far as saying ‘tire fire,’ but yeah......perhaps that team doesn’t make the playoffs.

Here’s what would happen however:

1) that above team wouldn’t finish at or near the bottom of the conference. They’d likely be in that 8-11 range.

2) after 1-2 years, it’s very likely that Pettersson and other young prospect within our system takes a significant leap. With that above line-up, I think the Canucks make the playoffs in 2019-2020.

3) in the years following, more of our young players start to emerge.

4) by the time Tavares and the Canucks are ready to move on from one another, we would have a young core in its prime with some playoff experience under their belts.

That’s how I would see it playing out.

But again - even if we don’t make the playoffs right away, a Tavares signing would atleast give the young kids in the system some motivation and drive.....as opposed to coming into camp thinking that they’d have no chance. That’s the important thing to keep in mind in my opinion.

 

[Askel]

Every year this argument comes up. All the great UFA:a are coming here (they never do) . All our prospects is going to be stars (so far this hasn't happened).

The Canucks need to be patient IMO. Keep adding picks and get younger. The defense is a mess, Del Zotto, Pouliot, Gudbransson, Stetcher, Biega and is bottom pairing d-men. Maybe Joulevi can become a top 4 d-men other than that the d prospects has to little upside. Tanev is always injured and Edler is getting old. The Canucks need to build a new defense, basically from scratch to be a contender.

Also Canucks ist the only team with capspace to sign Tavares, both New Jersey (who made the palyoffs) St Louis and few other teams has big money to spend, I just don't see Tavares coming here. Mike Green is not a guy thats going to make this defense into a competent group.

And no Im not talking about tanking. I want to build anew core around Pettersson, Boeser and Horavt. But patience is needed look at Winnipeg they took there time and now they are a very good team. Hopefully the Canucks can do something like that.

 

[The Flow]

"With the 7th overall pick, the Vancouver Canucks select Broody Tachook"

 

[Horse McHindu]

"With the 7th overall pick, the Vancouver Canucks select Broody Tachook"

I don’t think that’s awful for 7th overall. While I don’t think BT will be a star in this league, I think he’ll be a very good 2nd line LW that can fill the Center position when necessary.

Every year this argument comes up. All the great UFA:a are coming here (they never do) . All our prospects is going to be stars (so far this hasn't happened).

I can’t speak for the other years, but the reason why I see a (small) opportunity for Tavares and Vancouver here, is because Vancouver seems like one of the few teams that can offer Tavares 14 million for multiple years.....without it causing cap complications to the team or disrupting the core.

While I’m sure there are lots of teams that could *currently* offer Tavares a 14 million AAV, I think most of teams would be in cap hell after 1-2 years and would have to get rid of significant pieces.

The Canucks need to be patient IMO. Keep adding picks and get younger.

I agree with that, but I don’t see how Tavares or any big name UFA coming here affects that, as long as these big name UFA’s come here on shorter term deals which allow us to freely re-up our RFA’s when said big name UFA’s contract(s) expires.

The defense is a mess, Del Zotto, Pouliot, Gudbransson, Stetcher, Biega and is bottom pairing d-men. Maybe Joulevi can become a top 4 d-men other than that the d prospects has to little upside. Tanev is always injured and Edler is getting old. The Canucks need to build a new defense, basically from scratch to be a contender.

I agree with this completely. Although I see some risk involved in drafting Dobson/Bouchard/Boqvist/Hughes, I hope Benning knows something about these guys that I don’t.......and makes the correct pick here. I think 1-2 of these guys will be great, but also believe that 1-2 of these guys will be busts. All of those guys have some significant strengths and weaknesses........which is why I’m somewhat tempted to draft a Wahlstrom, Tkachuk, or even Kotkaniemi if they’re available. We need D in the worst way possible, but those forwards seem like far more of a sure thing.

Having said all that, I suspect that Juolevi will be a solid 2nd pairing D man one day (even if he doesn’t become a superstar), and I also believe that Tryamkin will come back to us.

Also Canucks ist the only team with capspace to sign Tavares, both New Jersey (who made the palyoffs) St Louis and few other teams has big money to spend, I just don't see Tavares coming here. Mike Green is not a guy thats going to make this defense into a competent group.

Mike Green would be a short term bandaid obviously, but I think his presence could allow for guys like Stecher and Guds to stay on the 3rd pairing (which would suit the teams needs better obviously).

I haven’t analyzed St.Louis’ and New Jersey’s cap situation, but can they really afford Tavares at 14 million for MULTIPLE years WITHOUT getting rid of significant core players? I’ll have to check the numbers but I find that hard to believe.

And no Im not talking about tanking. I want to build anew core around Pettersson, Boeser and Horavt. But patience is needed look at Winnipeg they took there time and now they are a very good team. Hopefully the Canucks can do something like that.

That’s the funny thing with Winnipeg, and I’m glad that you brought this up. Other than Laine, how many of their current core players were lottery picks? Scheifele was drafted 7th overall, Trouba was 9th, and Kyle Connor was 17th. I might be missing 1-2 “homegrown” high end draft picks, but it seems to me that Winnipeg’s success was derived from a combination of drafting, trades, and having a UFA presence.

I agree that patience is needed, but I don’t “being patient” necessarily equates to just standing by idle and only focusing on drafting and developing.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Canucks will be looking at Dobson, Boqvist and Hughes and probably in that order.

 

[brokenhole]

Anybody thing Benning will package this pick and overpay for a help on the blueline?

 

[Horse McHindu]

RHD: Go with Noah Dobson.

If we're definitely going with a D-man no matter what, I'd vote for Dobson.

I'm also going to on record stating that I'm not much of an Evan Bouchard guy. I do like Boqvist but his size is a bit of a concern for me.

If we're going with a RHD, I think I'd go with Noah Dobson. A big physical defenseman that can skate well and play in all 3 zones. I think Boqvist has a higher ceiling, but Dobson seems like far more of a sure thing. Bouchard's mobility is a bit of a concern for me. But again - analysing these defensemen was very difficult for me.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Anybody thing Benning will package this pick and overpay for a help on the blueline?

I could see Benning moving his 2nd but I can't see him moving the 1st under almost any circumstance.

 

[CanaFan]

Under my proposed plan, we’d also offer the [gross overpayment + shorter term deal] to Mike Green (2-3 year deal).

That, combined with what would likely be the emergence of some of our young guys in 1-2 years (Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, etc) would make us a playoff team in my opinion.



I think there needs to be a balance between bottoming out and rising too early (Calgary). While bottoming out does help a team land franchise players (as Vancouver seems to have done with Pettersson), staying on the bottom too long starts to hurt player morale around the core that you’re trying to build around. This is what I feel is a concept lost by many of the anti-Benning crowd on here.

If the players of a team go into a season knowing that they have little or no chance of making the playoff, it greatly affects morale, motivation, etc. that’s why I believe that you should always ‘dangle that carrot’ and have an active presence in the UFA market.

And again, I re-iterate the following:

1) We saw where we drafted Brock Boeser a few years ago.

2) Pettersson was drafted at #5

3) Where did Adam Gaudette come from?

4) Jonathan Dahlen?

5) How did Carolina do this year? Where did they end up in the lottery? What about New Jersey and Philadelphia in previous years?

Never deliberately tank. Always strive to make the playoffs without sacrificing the future. That’s my motto.

1) Everyone knows where Boeser came from. You seem mistaken in thinking we can find players like that in the 20’s repeatedly. Maybe we just got lucky instead? We missed on Pastrnak at 24 in 2014 and took a near dud in McCann instead. Evidence isn’t strong that Benning can find more Boeser’s if we start picking later in the draft.

2) Yes, #5. That’s a high pick. The kind we won’t be getting in your scenario.

3) Adam Gaudette has proven nothing so far.

4) Acquired in his only trade for an under 20 prospect in 4 years. A unicorn so far. Far more likely we keep adding more Mottes and Pouliots.

5) How did Florida do? NY Islanders? Dallas and Philadelphia this year? Winnipeg, Tampa, and Carolina last year?

For every team that fluked out there are 7-8 who stayed exactly where they were. The odds are what they are no matter how much cherry picking you do. 1-2% chance to win. Those odds are fact.


You essentially want to do what you accuse Calgary of doing, namely cut the rebuild short. Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, maybe Dahlen is no better than Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, and Bennett. Once we acquire Tavares then the pressure to trade 1sts for vets like Hamilton and Hamonic will grow and we’ll likely be a bubble team that misses out on most of the top talent in each draft.

Jesus, we just finished 4 years of “we can’t rebuild while the Sedins are here” and are finally in a position where we actually can focus on signing and trading UFAs at the TDL and play young players in prominent roles like PP, late in 3rd period, etc. You want to skip past all that and jump from Sedins to Tavares as the next excuse to not rebuild?

Just mind numbing impatience.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

With all due respect, you tried to imply to me a few months back that Calgary’s “success” in the NHL post 1989 was pretty similar and comparable to Vancouver’s success post 1989.

Taylor Swift was born in 1989

 

[Lindgren]

1) Everyone knows where Boeser came from. You seem mistaken in thinking we can find players like that in the 20’s repeatedly. Maybe we just got lucky instead? We missed on Pastrnak at 24 in 2014 and took a near dud in McCann instead. Evidence isn’t strong that Benning can find more Boeser’s if we start picking later in the draft.

2) Yes, #5. That’s a high pick. The kind we won’t be getting in your scenario.

3) Adam Gaudette has proven nothing so far.

4) Acquired in his only trade for an under 20 prospect in 4 years. A unicorn so far. Far more likely we keep adding more Mottes and Pouliots.

5) How did Florida do? NY Islanders? Dallas and Philadelphia this year? Winnipeg, Tampa, and Carolina last year?

For every team that fluked out there are 7-8 who stayed exactly where they were. The odds are what they are no matter how much cherry picking you do. 1-2% chance to win. Those odds are fact.


You essentially want to do what you accuse Calgary of doing, namely cut the rebuild short. Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, maybe Dahlen is no better than Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, and Bennett. Once we acquire Tavares then the pressure to trade 1sts for vets like Hamilton and Hamonic will grow and we’ll likely be a bubble team that misses out on most of the top talent in each draft.

Jesus, we just finished 4 years of “we can’t rebuild while the Sedins are here” and are finally in a position where we actually can focus on signing and trading UFAs at the TDL and play young players in prominent roles like PP, late in 3rd period, etc. You want to skip past all that and jump from Sedins to Tavares as the next excuse to not rebuild?

Just mind numbing impatience.

What's mind numbing, for me anyway, is not what a fan might say but, rather, that this impatience characterizes management. I've heard Linden and Benning say that there are no shortcuts and we must be patient, and yet they show that they believe they can find shortcuts, and they show they have little patience. In the bolded sentence above, I fear that we could substitute "management" for "you" with complete accuracy.

 

[DS7]

Option #1: Be a bottom feeder for years on end, with the hope that you "win the lottery" and draft a Generational Superstar or enough High end franchise stars to carry your team forward.

Option #2: Create a solid environment where a young team is consistently pushing for and making the playoffs. Draft players and prospects from the middle rounds, and inject them into a young and motivated environment.........lead by the likes of Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, and what will hopefully be a core defensive piece from this draft.

This team is already a bottom feeder, and quite possibly will be for years to come. Since we are slated to be at the bottom any way, we may as well get some picks.

I think my preferred option is a blend of option 1 and 2. It's not all black and white.

Option #3 : A solid playing environment where roster spots are earned and ice time is earned, whether you are a veteran or a rookie. You're not gifted ice time because you're brought in as a culture carrier or mentor or you have 300+ games under your belt. you earn it. Rookies and veterans are held accountable for their mistakes on the same standard.

Stock pile picks in the middle/upper rounds rather than trade them away for middling complementary players you can acquire via UFA. Trade veterans at the deadline for picks/prospects and let the chips fall where they may and hope for a lottery win.

We made 94 and '11 on the backs of players drafted in the Top 3. I don't see how that formula is going to change any time soon.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Canucks will be looking at Dobson, Boqvist and Hughes and probably in that order.

Boqvist will be gone in the top 5. We're likely looking at one of Wahlstrom, Bouchard, Tkachuk, Dobson, or Hughes.

 

[CanaFan]

Boqvist will be gone in the top 5. We're likely looking at one of Wahlstrom, Bouchard, Tkachuk, Dobson, or Hughes.

I don't think Boqvist is anywhere close to a lock for the top 5. He *could* go there but I think Tkachuk and Bouchard are more likely to go there than Boqvist. Concussions, league strength, and size/strength cast enough questions to offset his natural skill and young birthdate. I watched him at the U18's and while he skates, handles the puck, and (especially) shoots at an elite level, I found his overall game a bit frustrating. He looks for his own shot far more than he moves the puck and looks for others. He's a bit like Wahlstrom on defense, in that he has one elite tool but doesn't do enough other than that. I think there's enough questions about his game that he's far from a lock in the top 5.

 

[Lindgren]

I have no independent opinion about who the Canucks should take; I haven't seen these players, and even if I had, I'm no scout.

Judging by what the experts say, however, I'm surprised that Dobson doesn't rank higher. When they describe the different D-men at the top of the draft, it always sounds to me like Dobson is the guy, and then they rank him lower. Puzzling. It's as though it's just not fashionable to credit play in the defensive zone at all, because you risk sounding like a dinosaur who favours plodding Andrew Alberts types.

 

[jonnygf40]

I think he would be pretty safe pick.

Yuck. I think Kotkaniemi is going the to be the Rob Schremp of this draft. STAY AWAY.

 

[jonnygf40]

Even in the unrealistic world where we sign both Tavares + Carlson we would not be a playoff team IMO.

Baertschi - Tavares - Boeser
Gagner - Horvat - Petterson
Eriksson - Sutter - Granlund
Virtanen - Gaunce - Leipsic
Archibald - Goldobin

Edler - Carlson
Del Zotto - Tanev
Gudbransson - Stecher
Biega

Markstrom
Nilsson

Is still a tire fire of a team.

I dont know ....
Baerstchi Tavares Boeser
Petterson Horvat Virtanen
Eriksson Sutter Granlund
Gagne Gaunce Leipsic

Edler Carlson
Del Zotto Tanev
Hutton Stecher

Mark
Nil
... not too shabby.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Personally don't want to see Tavares and a 14 mill avg per tag on our team. Sure he would help but how much? Instead of picking 7th we would probably be picking 13th or something. Which more than likely dooms us to years of mediocrity.

If we can ace this draft like last year and get a #1 defender out of this group and assuming OJ becomes a top 4 d-man with solid PP stats (I think he will but granted it's still a wait and see approach) AND we can lure Tryamkin back in the next couple of years then our D will be fine.

Our forward corps with Pettersson and Boeser and crew should also be more than ok as more than likely we will be able to add another top 10 pick this year - at which point THEN I would feel fine about going out and breaking the bank on someone like Tavares. (I'm not really a fan though of putting that much cap on one player as I feel it tends to limit the rest of your team potentially).

I think the best option for our current cap space is to try to get some assetts in return by taking on some unwanted contracts - not sure management has the wherewithall to do this but ideally that is what I would like to see.