Winnipeg Jets Training Camp

[Jack7222]

I'm holding off drawing any conclusions on this until reg season - but it would have been nice to see more D in their game early.
I'm just hoping they separate these two - I think Bones will have a better chance in getting them to play a more balanced game if they are playing with others that do.

It's funny because for some reason I get the impression Scheif doesn't like playing with Ehlers, and I think maybe he has to change his style a little for it.

But Scheif actually looks good playing with Ehlers, so maybe when he has to think more and adjust more it's better for him? I feel like Scheif and Connor go into this weird autopilot mode that is great for hunting out highlight reel offense but cheats a ton.

Same deal with Connor: when he was with Dubois, he was having to change his style a bit and it seemed to benefit him.

 

[surixon]

Bowness' style actually favors more offense from the D. He encourages D to join the rush in transition, and in the offensive zone he likes low-to-high play and then D shots to the net. The Jets had more D goals last year than any time in Jets 2.0, I think. Heinola's aggressiveness in joining the rush this pre-season is exactly what Bowness likes to see.

The issue for Bowness' system is he really hates "east-west" play and regrouping. That's a particular problem for Ehlers, who's game is structured around reverses in the D zone, regrouping for transition, and horizontal and diagonal play up the ice and in the offensive zone. My guess is that unless Ehlers adapts, Bowness will continue to limit his ice-time, as he did last season (especially down the stretch).

The style of Connor and Scheifele is also a bit contrary to Bowness' style, in that they tend to like to hold onto the puck and don't use the low-to-high as much.

You can also add Perfetti to that list as well but he plays real good d and seems more willing to pit it back to the points or shoot for tips and rebounds.

I still stand by my thoughts that they probably need to move on from Bones next season after the d foundation is ingrained. They will need to bring in someone who can build an offensive game plan ontop of that foundation, much like what we saw with the Stars under DeBoer last year.

It's funny because for some reason I get the impression Scheif doesn't like playing with Ehlers, and I think maybe he has to change his style a little for it.

But Scheif actually looks good playing with Ehlers, so maybe when he has to think more and adjust more it's better for him? I feel like Scheif and Connor go into this weird autopilot mode that is great for hunting out highlight reel offense but cheats a ton.

Same deal with Connor: when he was with Dubois, he was having to change his style a bit and it seemed to benefit him.

My guess is not a lot of players actually like playing with Ehlers due to the unpredictable ness in his game.

But I do agree with you that both Mark and Kyle look better when forced out of their comfort zone a bit.

 

[Whileee]

You can also add Perfetti to that list as well but he plays real good d and seems more willing to pit it back to the points or shoot for tips and rebounds.

I still stand by my thoughts that they probably need to move on from Bones next season after the d foundation is ingrained. They will need to bring in someone who can build and offer skve game plan ontop of that foundation, much like what we sW with the Stars under DeBoer last year.

My concern is that Bowness might be the impetus for Ehlers leaving, not to mention not getting good impact from Ehlers in the meantime.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[surixon]

My concern is that Bowness might be the impetus for Ehlers leaving, not to mention not getting good impact from Ehlers in the meantime.

Well we saw him get less and less time last year and players he likes like Cole get more and more. I think you can add Vilardi to the list of players he'll love. I fully expect Ehlers to be the lowest played top 6 player this year.

It's interesting because this is now two coaches that have seen fit to play him less despite him being highly effective in his minutes. The org tends to like coaches that favor North/South, high/low games.

As for him leaving, I feel that has been a foregone conclusion for a while now. The org doesn't rate him high enough so I can't see them entertaining paying him close to what he'll want to stay. I also feel Fly will want to go where he's valued more anyhow. My guess is he's very much in play for a RD.

So they are keeping Chisholm and Stanley. Congrats to Declan for making the team, but they really need to move on from tree Capo is a much better player.

 

[None]

I think Capobianco getting waived means he's healthy but AJF also getting waived might be a good sign that Ehlers is very likely to play on Monday.

Capobianco and Ehlers both on IR would've let them keep AJF up until Ehlers was 100% I think.

 

[Whileee]

Well we saw him get less and less time last year and players he likes like Cole get more and more. I think you can add Vilardi to the list of players he'll love. I fully expect Ehlers to be the lowest played top 6 player this year.

It's interesting because this is now two coaches that have seen fit to play him less despite him being highly effective in his minutes. The org tends to like coaches that favor North/South, high/low games.

As for him leaving, I feel that has been a foregone conclusion for a while now. The org doesn't rate him high enough so I can't see them entertaining paying him close to what he'll want to stay. I also feel Fly will want to go where he's valued more anyhow. My guess is he's very much in play for a RD.



So they are keeping Chisholm and Stanley. Congrats to Declan for making the team, but they really need to move on from tree Capo is a much better player.

Bowness played Appleton more than Ehlers last season. That kind of says it all.

 

[WolfHouse]

My concern is that Bowness might be the impetus for Ehlers leaving, not to mention not getting good impact from Ehlers in the meantime.

I'm confused about this 'bones is a bad coach' narrative emerging... Ehlers had his highest corsi of his career and was scoring at the same pace as always... at his lowest ice time

Maybe Bones doesn't like him - maybe he was sheltering him due to the chronic injury... but Bones certainly did not 'stifle' Ehlers - I do still think there's a next level... and I'm more confident in Bowness finding that than I ever was Maurice.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Capo Delia ajf waived

 

[CorgisPer60]

Probably the best options. I was surprised that Capo was waived. Thought he wasn't healthy enough to be waived. I'd rather keep Chisholm and Stanley up until Heinola is better.

 

[None]

I'm confused about this 'bones is a bad coach' narrative emerging...

Emerging? These are concerns that were raised before he had even coached a game for the New Jets. He's done nothing but confirm what the very preliminary thoughts on his coaching preferences were.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Probably the best options. I was surprised that Capo was waived. Thought he wasn't healthy enough to be waived. I'd rather keep Chisholm and Stanley up until Heinola is better.

Stan was the worst of the regulars imo. Maybe he's traded tho. Maybe some value there still.

But yes, when ville Is healthy you got a decision to make

Emerging? These are concerns that were raised before he had even coached a game for the New Jets. He's done nothing but confirm what the very preliminary thoughts on his coaching preferences were.

But when they bought in, they were leading the West. It's about winning. Nothing wrong with D first teams, those are the teams who generally do well in the playoffs

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Capo waived, Stan still with the Jets ........... so far.

Chisholm is not shown as having been waived according to CF but he is listed among the non-roster players. What's the story?

 

[bustamente]

Giving up on Stanley doesn't seem to a option this year

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You can also add Perfetti to that list as well but he plays real good d and seems more willing to pit it back to the points or shoot for tips and rebounds.

I still stand by my thoughts that they probably need to move on from Bones next season after the d foundation is ingrained. They will need to bring in someone who can build and offer skve game plan ontop of that foundation, much like what we sW with the Stars under DeBoer last year.



My guess is not a lot of players actually like playing with Ehlers due to the unpredictable ness in his game.

But I do agree with you that both Mark and Kyle look better when forced out of their comfort zone a bit.

I think Perfetti is going to have the same issue as Ehlers and for the same reason. Both read the play and make moves the opposition doesn't expect. Unfortunately their linemates don't expect it either.

I split up Nik and Cole somewhat the same way I split up KFC and Scheif. Too much unpredictability from the 1st pair and too little D from the 2nd. I think everyone will like it better that way once they have adjusted.

 

[Whileee]

Capo waived, Stan still with the Jets ........... so far.

Chisholm is not shown as having been waived according to CF but he is listed among the non-roster players. What's the story?

Chisholm probably still injured.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well we saw him get less and less time last year and players he likes like Cole get more and more. I think you can add Vilardi to the list of players he'll love. I fully expect Ehlers to be the lowest played top 6 player this year.

It's interesting because this is now two coaches that have seen fit to play him less despite him being highly effective in his minutes. The org tends to like coaches that favor North/South, high/low games.

As for him leaving, I feel that has been a foregone conclusion for a while now. The org doesn't rate him high enough so I can't see them entertaining paying him close to what he'll want to stay. I also feel Fly will want to go where he's valued more anyhow. My guess is he's very much in play for a RD.



So they are keeping Chisholm and Stanley. Congrats to Declan for making the team, but they really need to move on from tree Capo is a much better player.

They have 23 on the roster with Chisholm listed as a non-roster player.

Oh wait, I see that CF still has AJF on the roster. Him being waived makes room for Declan.

But yes, Capo is a better player than Stan. I don't think it is close enough to justify keeping Stan. Maybe they think Capo is more likely to clear and there might still be some market for Stan? But at this time of year Stan probably clears too. Then they would have gained the flexibility to be able to move him up and down for a while. OTOH, this way they gain that with Capo, assuming he goes unclaimed.

Either way, I'm glad they didn't lose Chisholm.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well we saw him get less and less time last year and players he likes like Cole get more and more. I think you can add Vilardi to the list of players he'll love. I fully expect Ehlers to be the lowest played top 6 player this year.

It's interesting because this is now two coaches that have seen fit to play him less despite him being highly effective in his minutes. The org tends to like coaches that favor North/South, high/low games.

As for him leaving, I feel that has been a foregone conclusion for a while now. The org doesn't rate him high enough so I can't see them entertaining paying him close to what he'll want to stay. I also feel Fly will want to go where he's valued more anyhow. My guess is he's very much in play for a RD.



So they are keeping Chisholm and Stanley. Congrats to Declan for making the team, but they really need to move on from tree Capo is a much better player.

Further:
I'm afraid you are right about Ehlers. Winning doesn't seem to matter as much as conforming to a coach's preconceived ideas.

Ehlers is going to have to get healthy for a while if he is going to have much trade value - or contract value when the time comes.

 

[surixon]

They have 23 on the roster with Chisholm listed as a non-roster player.

Oh wait, I see that CF still has AJF on the roster. Him being waived makes room for Declan.

But yes, Capo is a better player than Stan. I don't think it is close enough to justify keeping Stan. Maybe they think Capo is more likely to clear and there might still be some market for Stan? But at this time of year Stan probably clears too. Then they would have gained the flexibility to be able to move him up and down for a while. OTOH, this way they gain that with Capo, assuming he goes unclaimed.

Either way, I'm glad they didn't lose Chisholm.

I think CF just hasn't fully updated the rosters yet. Given he wasn't waived he essentially is on the team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm confused about this 'bones is a bad coach' narrative emerging... Ehlers had his highest corsi of his career and was scoring at the same pace as always... at his lowest ice time

Maybe Bones doesn't like him - maybe he was sheltering him due to the chronic injury... but Bones certainly did not 'stifle' Ehlers - I do still think there's a next level... and I'm more confident in Bowness finding that than I ever was Maurice.

It isn't about "stifling" Ehlers. It is about failing to get the value that is there. TOI and PP1 is what it is about.

 

[surixon]

Stan was the worst of the regulars imo. Maybe he's traded tho. Maybe some value there still.

But yes, when ville Is healthy you got a decision to make



But when they bought in, they were leading the West. It's about winning. Nothing wrong with D first teams, those are the teams who generally do well in the playoffs

Nothing wrong with defense first but you still need to score more then your opposition to win. The teams defense was better the second half then the first half but they couldn't score to save their lives. Bones is going to have to find the right balance between offense and defense to win. I dispute the notion that they suddenly stopped buying in the second half. All the metrics point to them following the defensive game plan.

It isn't about "stifling" Ehlers. It is about failing to get the value that is there. TOI and PP1 is what it is about.

Yup, ita about him being underutilized.

 

[LowLefty]

Nothing wrong with defense first but you still need to score more then your opposition to win. The teams defense was better the second half then the first half but they couldn't score to save their lives. Bones is going to have to find the right balance between offense and defense to win. I dispute the notion that they suddenly stopped buying in the second half. All the metrics point to them following the defensive game plan.



Yup, ita about him being underutilized.

What I saw missing in the second half was their approach to creating turnovers and having that tenacity in their game that allowed them to create more offense off the turnover - especially in the N zone where we struggled.
Bones called this out over and over again - they were reverting back to generating everything out of their own zone, a slo-mo approach through the N zone and being stood up at the offensive blueline. This happened a lot - especially on the Scheif line.

They lost a lot of the zip in their game - and maybe that didn't impact the dgame to any extent, but their offense looked like the old O where individuals were trying to make things happen without much of a plan in mind - call it panic or call it slipping from what made them effective earlier in the season.

I think they did stop buying in during the back half - their d was fine but they gave up on what was effective in driving offense.
We looked very good in the N zone earlier on - we didn't give up much and we turned the puck around very effectively.
IMO, there is no better offense that what is created off turnovers - the D is usually not set to defend against it and it opens up a ton of space and allows the guys to gain the zone much easier than what we typically generate coming our of our own end. Teams knew how to defend against our rush - they stacked up on the blue line and waited - it was easy. But off a turnover, you can't do that.

Playing a style of game where you are in the oppositions face, creating turnovers, requires a lot of buy in (and work) - we had that going in the first half - not so much in the back half.

 

[surixon]

What I saw missing in the second half was their approach to creating turnovers and having that tenacity in their game that allowed them to create more offense off the turnover - especially in the N zone where we struggled.
Bones called this out over and over again - they were reverting back to generating everything out of their own zone, a slo-mo approach through the N zone and being stood up at the offensive blueline. This happened a lot - especially on the Scheif line.

They lost a lot of the zip in their game - and maybe that didn't impact the dgame to any extent, but their offense looked like the old O where individuals were trying to make things happen without much of a plan in mind - call it panic or call it slipping from what made them effective earlier in the season.

I think they did stop buying in during the back half - their d was fine but they gave up on what was effective in driving offense.
We looked very good in the N zone earlier on - we didn't give up much and we turned the puck around very effectively.
IMO, there is no better offense that what is created off turnovers - the D is usually not set to defend against it and it opens up a ton of space and allows the guys to gain the zone much easier than what we typically generate coming our of our own end. Teams knew how to defend against our rush - they stacked up on the blue line and waited - it was easy. But off a turnover, you can't do that.

Playing a style of game where you are in the oppositions face, creating turnovers, requires a lot of buy in (and work) - we had that going in the first half - not so much in the back half.

I don't have stats to prove or disprove your nz argument, nor do I remember exactly how they played there buy your argument seems counterintuitive though. Our defense improves but we have less of the puck in the nz, we do a worse job at stopping the opposition, and we turn the puck over more. If anything that nz performance would lead to worse defense through the opposition being able to attack with more speed.

What I'm getting at is our offensive zone system based on moving the puck low to high for a long range shot with traffic infront. It's the scheme that Bones and Mark got into a spat about. We are saw the exact same scheme this preseason. Everything low to high and a long range shot. There was next to no opening up of slot based chances off the cycle which is where a good manybof of our offensive players excel.

 

[Jet]

Sad to see Capobianco waived. Stanley was the correct move but I dont think the Jets can admit they borked the Stanley draft pick.

It'll be interesting to see if there's outrage over losing him if he gets claimed the same way people were gutted about listing Essyimont or Kovacevic, as he's the best of the three imho

 

[LowLefty]

I don't have stats to prove or disprove your nz argument, nor do I remember exactly how they played there buy your argument seems counterintuitive though. Our defense improves but we have less of the puck in the nz, we do a worse job at stopping the opposition, and we turn the puck over more. If anything that nz performance would lead to worse defense through the opposition being able to attack with more speed.

What I'm getting at is our offensive zone system based on moving the puck low to high for a long range shot with traffic infront. It's the scheme that Bones and Mark got into a spat about. We are saw the exact same scheme this preseason. Everything low to high and a long range shot. There was next to no opening up of slot based chances off the cycle which is where a good manybof of our offensive players excel.

Our D game in our zone was better - and we were able to get things started from our zone as I noted.
But our N zone work was not better - it got worse when we took our foot off the gas when defending against the rush.
That's what I saw as the season progresses - and I don't know what stat you'd need to look at to argue my point - but I like to rely on what I see and that is what I saw.

And when you think about it, that explains why our dgame looked OK because we defended well behind our blueline - but we did not do the work needed to get it done in the N zone - and that's where the forwards pulled back on the effort they were showing us earlier.

Bones preached that game style all season - get on players before they can build anything off the rush.
If you watched the Sens game, they did it to a T - they smothered you in the N zone which slows your rush (or stops it in it's tracks).

Bones isn't asking these guys to play a defensive game - he's asking them to play a complete game where everyone is working with or without the puck.
We struggle with that - especially some of our top guys (Scheif / KC are the 2 most obvious who don't do much on the back check and would rather fight it out in our zone and turn it up ice).