OT: Winnipeg Blue Bombers 2019 Off Season Thread

[snowkiddin]

Glad Whitehead made the roster

 

[DowntownBooster]

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The CFL will have continual trouble staying alive. You can only afford to support a certain amount of teams with your dollar.

Toronto -- has terrible attendance ( compete with Leafs, Raptors, Blue Jays, and soccer. ) I don't know why anyone would want to own the Argos -- "unless your a masochist."

Montreal --same thing ( Habs, and soccer is growing)

BC -- same thing ( Canucks, and soccer is growing) A lot of the population in BC is Asian, and they don't seem to like the CFL .

People only have so much money, and they want to see the best talent in the world play. They will support the NHL, and some will support the NBA, and now soccer is cutting into the entertainment dollar. Something will give here at some point. You can only stretch the dollar so far, and your average family man or woman only makes around $ 50 K, and half goes to income tax.

The CFL is only surviving on it's "tradition", and with that being said, if they can't get attendance up in the bigger markets, we just may see the CFL fold -- which would be a shame, for the smaller cities that support it and love it.

It's all the "smaller market" cities like Regina, Calgary, Winnipeg etc. that support the CFL. It's really quite a mess. I certainly wouldn't put my money into a CFL franchise.

While it is true that you can only stretch a dollar so far in regards to supporting sports teams in your city, one would still have to question why the support for a CFL team is still lacking in the 3 largest Canadian cities. The CMA population of Toronto is 6 million with that of Montreal being 4 million followed by Vancouver at 2.5 million. Those cities are huge in comparison to the other CFL markets and aside from the NHL and MLS, the only city of the Big 3 that has an NBA and MLB team is Toronto.

Is there any reason that Montreal and Vancouver should have difficulty supporting a CFL team based on population? Toronto should also have no problem being able to attract a larger number of fans to Argos games as well because even though it has teams in the NHL, NBA, MLB and MLS, the population is roughly the combined amount of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba altogether.

The question really isn't one of stretching the dollar to support a CFL team but rather one of having the interest in supporting one. Clearly the population is there. However, the most likely reason is that the CFL is viewed by the Big 3 the same way the AHL is viewed in Winnipeg. With that being the case, it does make one wonder about the long-term outlook for the CFL and how it may look 15 years from now.

 

[LadyJet26]

The CFL has always had it's heart in the prairies and always will. Support in big cities isn't going to happen consistently. There are always other things to do in Vancouver Toronto and Montreal.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I swear the issue in BC is purely around insanely high ticket prices. 100 bucks to sit between the 20 yard lines. Given the high cost of living, its entirely out of whack..

 

[GNP]

While it is true that you can only stretch a dollar so far in regards to supporting sports teams in your city, one would still have to question why the support for a CFL team is still lacking in the 3 largest Canadian cities. The CMA population of Toronto is 6 million with that of Montreal being 4 million followed by Vancouver at 2.5 million. Those cities are huge in comparison to the other CFL markets and aside from the NHL and MLS, the only city of the Big 3 that has an NBA and MLB team is Toronto.

Is there any reason that Montreal and Vancouver should have difficulty supporting a CFL team based on population? Toronto should also have no problem being able to attract a larger number of fans to Argos games as well because even though it has teams in the NHL, NBA, MLB and MLS, the population is roughly the combined amount of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba altogether.

The question really isn't one of stretching the dollar to support a CFL team but rather one of having the interest in supporting one. Clearly the population is there. However, the most likely reason is that the CFL is viewed by the Big 3 the same way the AHL is viewed in Winnipeg. With that being the case, it does make one wonder about the long-term outlook for the CFL and how it may look 15 years from now.

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I agree with your thoughts on this issue Booster. The "interest" doesn't seem to be there in the big 3 cities. I guess in order for the CFL to survive it may mean ticket prices will have to fall quite a bit, and also player salaries, and playing to smaller crowds. This is what it may come down to , in order to survive long term. This isn't really the case in smaller cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg etc. where attendance has been increasing over the years.

Even in the USA, there have been several football leagues that have tried to start up, and they can't seem to stay financially solvent. There is one right now on the brink of folding up-- I believe.

I hope the CFL can survive, as it's been part of my life since I was a kid, but I do question if it's long term viability is realistic ?

I have noticed that cities like Montreal, will come out and support the team if they have a winning team on the field.

The answer might come into bringing other smaller cities into the league like Moncton, Halifax etc. , and maybe some smaller northern US cities, ( Madison, Wisconsin etc) where they don't have a professional sports club to follow and root for.

Let's hope the CFL somehow survives -- but attendance will have to pick up in the big 3 Cities-- I would think.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

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I agree with your thoughts on this issue Booster. The "interest" doesn't seem to be there in the big 3 cities. I guess in order for the CFL to survive it may mean ticket prices will have to fall quite a bit, and also player salaries, and playing to smaller crowds. This is what it may come down to , in order to survive long term. This isn't really the case in smaller cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg etc. where attendance has been increasing over the years.

Even in the USA, there have been several football leagues that have tried to start up, and they can't seem to stay financially solvent. There is one right now on the brink of folding up-- I believe.

I hope the CFL can survive, as it's been part of my life since I was a kid, but I do question if it's long term viability is realistic ?

I have noticed that cities like Montreal, will come out and support the team if they have a winning team on the field.

The answer might come into bringing other smaller cities into the league like Moncton, Halifax etc. , and maybe some smaller northern US cities, ( Madison, Wisconsin etc) where they don't have a professional sports club to follow and root for.

Let's hope the CFL somehow survives -- but attendance will have to pick up in the big 3 Cities-- I would think.

There is very little right in this post. Very little.

The CFL somehow survives...are you kidding? The CFL is going nowhere, that is just crazy talk.

The CFL is strongest it's been in literally DECADES right now. 30 years ago they needed a cash injection from NFL to stay afloat. 20 years ago one of the flagship franchises had f***ing telethon like PBS to keep the team alive (Sask Riders). 10 years ago the league owned TWO teams at the same time and then had to sell one to one of it's OTHER OWNERS just to keep the team afloat (Argos). Now that the league has a very strong core with invested super rich owners in their worst market (Toronto), multiple suitors for another franchise (Montreal), and an expansion team incoming in a year or two to a long sought after market (Halifax), NOW you think it will fold? Makes less than zero sense.

And despite the attendance numbers Toronto has absolutely amazing TV numbers. Which is huge, TSN deal is coming up soon and CFL is there flagship franchise. CFL is going to get PAID. Argos were also sold to MLSE. They know how to make a sports team in Toronto work, and have billions backing them. No longer competing with Raptors, Leafs, TFC, now they are partners. You'd be crazy to think that won't help. Not too mention Ontario is taking a page out of Winnipeg's playbook easing back some restrictions on the ability to make gameday a whole experience. Montreal in all sports only support winners (except Habs but yeah Habs). The Montreal Impact are struggling far worse than the Alouettes. Vancouver is similiar, except that includes the Canucks. Again strong TV numbers in BC and Montreal though. Neither are key markets, they are Ducks, Senators, Sabres of the CFL. Sure they can do ok if winning, will struggle when losing. And remember Montreal last 5 years have been as bad as Bombers 94-99 and Bombers struggled mightily then as well.

This is not even mentioning yet that a major sticking point in the CBA was revenue from new TV deals in Mexico, Europe, and the US. So clearly both sides are very confident there is yet another revenue source coming in. Players basically gave away any chance at a raise right now to ensure they get a piece of those pies when they happen.

CFL's "long term viability" is the best it's been since like the 60's and 70's when they would compete for players with the NFL. It's been downhill since then basically until the past 10 years. It's finally starting to look up for the CFL and NOW NOW you question it's viability?

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

deleted

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Was that last sentence really necessary? Did it add anything to the discussion? You make a lot of good points and then put people off by being unnecessarily rude to close things off.

Deleted it but it's the same f***ing discussion every few months for the past 10 years, despite the mountains of evidence of the CFL getting more and more and stable.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Deleted it but it's the same ****ing discussion every few weeks for the past 10 years, despite the mountains of evidence of the CFL getting more and more and stable.

OK, I'll delete my post referencing it. I can understand frustration.

 

[GNP]

Great post there Holden, and I wish I could be as passionate and as positive as you are. I think you take a very "subjective" position here, and ignore the "empty seats."

You bring up a lot of very good points though, and maybe your correct, and some TV contracts may help the buoy the situation. I thought Moncton was supposed to join the league this year ? why didn't they? Now you say Halifax --I hope so -- this is what they need. I'd also like to see smaller Northern American cities brought in.

Anyways, I guess my post got your juices flowing, to make such a heartened response. I was around to see Ken Ploen, Ernie Pitts, Leo Lewis and all those great 60's Bombers teams, and it's part of my identity.( coach-Bud Grant ) I'd like to see the league survive.

I do admire you for your passion and will for the CFL to not only stick around, but start to thrive again, like in past years. There's just a lot more competition now, and it's a matter of somehow trying to instill some passion in the BIG 3 Cities, or it will be a very tough.

Let's not forget Hockey is engrained in the Canadian culture, and so was CFL Football, but I think the NFL took a little air out of the CFL 's sails, and caused for it's decline. Also, we in Canada, are now a country of a lot of immigrants, that were not raised with football, so the stage is a little different. I'm not sure but I think BC is around 40 % Asian, and they don't support football ?

As an objective poster, I see a tough road ahead for the CFL, but I do hope their turning it around like you say. Great post you made. When you watch your next game from Toronto or Vancouver -- and see all those empty seats --ask yourself,is this league going to start to rebound, or will it fade away ?

 

[TS Quint]

The bombers are going nowhere with Nichols. Why do they have such a blind spot to the most important position in any sport?

Blind spot? I don't know. He's average, 4/5th best QB in the league. I think if they could find anything better they would replace him. The Walters regime has done some good things but finding QBs isnt one of them. For the love of god we had Brian Brohm for 2 years and I think every Bomber fan knew what we had after the first game or two with that guy.

I don't think Strevler showed he could handle the offense last year. Once he had the whole play book instead of a single play where he had 2 options either run or pass to a single receiver he was lost. He was a rookie and I hope he can learn the play book this year, I thought he had the physical tools to be a starter one day.

I don't want the Bombers to be I the position of giving away Kevin Glenn just to have a series of Brinks, Elliott, Goltz, Hall, Dinnwittie, Davis, Marve, Lafors, Bishop, and Jyles type QBs until we get back to having an average QB again.

I hope Strevler takes the steps to take the starting job but we can't get rid of Nicholls until he does.

 

[TS Quint]

I'm not surprised by Simonise washing out. There was talk of him not putting in the effort in practice. Coaches see that. All the physical tools in the world won't get you success if your head's not in it.

As for Bennett, I am convinced this organization is incapable of developing a starting QB. This revolving door of backups over the years just boggles the mind.

Bennett got cut from the Riders too. Maybe it's not the team that is the problem.

 

[TS Quint]

Dislike cuts of Simonise and Bennett. I certainly wasn't convinced McGuire was better in pre-season. Simonise has ridiculous potential. Played well on a ton of ST last year and is a backup, type of player you need to groom, IMO.

Seems like when you think the Bombers brass likes a player it's the touch of death for their career.

 

[Jets 31]

Deleted it but it's the same ****ing discussion every few months for the past 10 years, despite the mountains of evidence of the CFL getting more and more and stable.

While i agree the CFL isn't going anywhere you have to agree when you see all the empty seats in Toronto and Vancouver on TV , it looks bad . People in Toronto especially think they are a NFL city and the CFL is beneath them . Then they see all the empty seats and don't go to games , tough cycle to change .

 

[GNP]

While i agree the CFL isn't going anywhere you have to agree when you see all the empty seats in Toronto and Vancouver on TV , it looks bad . People in Toronto especially think they are a NFL city and the CFL is beneath them . Then they see all the empty seats and don't go to games , tough cycle to change .

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I think you hit the nail right on the head Jets 31 - Toronto fans think the CFL is "beneath them" -as they want to be recognized as an International City, and have teams at the highest level of sports. I believe they are the 4th or 6th largest City in North America.

Things have changed since the 1960's when they loved the Argos, but now there's bigger game in town. It's really to bad for the CFL. i really think the CFL should change their strategy and court smaller to middle sized cities like Regina -- cities like Moncton, Halifax, and some smaller Northern US cities like Madison, Wisconsin. They would get way better attendance-- I'm sure of it.

The Jet's just need to thump Toronto a couple times in the Stanley Cup final and put them in their place.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Moncton never been an expansion candidate. Halifax has been working on getting s stadium deal done for 2 years. They have been scheduled to begin play in 2021 for a few years but it's hard to say with stadium deal still not 100%.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

In actual you know football news Simonise has signed with his hometown Lions. Meanwhile it looks like Bombers will be adding Winnipegger Anthony Coombs. Which is good they were razor thin at national WR after the Simonise cut.

 

[DowntownBooster]

_____________________________________________

I agree with your thoughts on this issue Booster. The "interest" doesn't seem to be there in the big 3 cities. I guess in order for the CFL to survive it may mean ticket prices will have to fall quite a bit, and also player salaries, and playing to smaller crowds. This is what it may come down to , in order to survive long term. This isn't really the case in smaller cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg etc. where attendance has been increasing over the years.

Even in the USA, there have been several football leagues that have tried to start up, and they can't seem to stay financially solvent. There is one right now on the brink of folding up-- I believe.

I hope the CFL can survive, as it's been part of my life since I was a kid, but I do question if it's long term viability is realistic ?

I have noticed that cities like Montreal, will come out and support the team if they have a winning team on the field.

The answer might come into bringing other smaller cities into the league like Moncton, Halifax etc. , and maybe some smaller northern US cities, ( Madison, Wisconsin etc) where they don't have a professional sports club to follow and root for.

Let's hope the CFL somehow survives -- but attendance will have to pick up in the big 3 Cities-- I would think.

I think you could be right that the CFL may have to scale down in regards to ticket prices and player salaries in order to combat the smaller crowds occurring in various markets. Like you, I have watched the CFL for a very long time (in my case since the early 70's) and have seen the ups and downs of the league over the years.

While it may be true that tv viewership has been strong in Toronto for the time being, it may begin to diminish as the crowds continue to decline at BMO Field. Nothing turns off viewers more than seeing empty stands. For those that say things are just fine and that the league is stronger than ever, I'm sure that both of us recall the days when the Argos were drawing crowds over 50,000 at Exhibition Stadium in Toronto, the Alouettes were drawing well over 60,000 at Olympic Stadium in Montreal, the Eskimos were averaging 60,081 for a number of seasons at Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton and the Lions were drawing 59,000 to B.C. Place Stadium in Vancouver. The crowds in those CFL cities over the last few years are nowhere near what they used to be. If the league was currently stronger than ever, the stadiums would be full like those for the NFL.

Some have pointed out that the CFL has been around for a long time and because of that it will always be there. Yes, the league has been around a while and the Winnipeg Football Club (Blue Bombers) were founded in 1930. However, there was also a retail giant in Canada the was founded in 1869 which no one would have believed would cease operations either but that is what happened to Eaton's in spite of the fact it was owned by very rich people as well.

The future of the CFL is perplexing in the sense that it is fairly well supported in the prairie provinces, modestly supported in Ottawa and Hamilton and not so well in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. It is also still unclear what the stadium situation is for Atlantic Canada. Will any government out there be willing to invest in a stadium? There is still no solid commitment at this time. Should the CFL consider some smaller markets across the border? I'm not sure. While it's good to look at things in a positive way, there's nothing wrong with being genuinely concerned about the future of the league and the direction it should take.

 

[TS Quint]

In actual you know football news Simonise has signed with his hometown Lions. Meanwhile it looks like Bombers will be adding Winnipegger Anthony Coombs. Which is good they were razor thin at national WR after the Simonise cut.

Good trade for the Bombers!

 

[raideralex99]

I swear the issue in BC is purely around insanely high ticket prices. 100 bucks to sit between the 20 yard lines. Given the high cost of living, its entirely out of whack..

I know more people who have Seahawks season tickets than Lions season tickets. People will play more for a better product.

 

[roccerfeller]

Moncton never been an expansion candidate. Halifax has been working on getting s stadium deal done for 2 years. They have been scheduled to begin play in 2021 for a few years but it's hard to say with stadium deal still not 100%.

I hope they get that sorted out. Things seems to have quieted on the Halifax stadium front

 

[bustamente]

The interior of the O line still concerns me, time will tell if these guys can take over from Goosen and Chung

 

[GNP]

I think you could be right that the CFL may have to scale down in regards to ticket prices and player salaries in order to combat the smaller crowds occurring in various markets. Like you, I have watched the CFL for a very long time (in my case since the early 70's) and have seen the ups and downs of the league over the years.

While it may be true that tv viewership has been strong in Toronto for the time being, it may begin to diminish as the crowds continue to decline at BMO Field. Nothing turns off viewers more than seeing empty stands. For those that say things are just fine and that the league is stronger than ever, I'm sure that both of us recall the days when the Argos were drawing crowds over 50,000 at Exhibition Stadium in Toronto, the Alouettes were drawing well over 60,000 at Olympic Stadium in Montreal, the Eskimos were averaging 60,081 for a number of seasons at Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton and the Lions were drawing 59,000 to B.C. Place Stadium in Vancouver. The crowds in those CFL cities over the last few years are nowhere near what they used to be. If the league was currently stronger than ever, the stadiums would be full like those for the NFL.

Some have pointed out that the CFL has been around for a long time and because of that it will always be there. Yes, the league has been around a while and the Winnipeg Football Club (Blue Bombers) were founded in 1930. However, there was also a retail giant in Canada the was founded in 1869 which no one would have believed would cease operations either but that is what happened to Eaton's in spite of the fact it was owned by very rich people as well.

The future of the CFL is perplexing in the sense that it is fairly well supported in the prairie provinces, modestly supported in Ottawa and Hamilton and not so well in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. It is also still unclear what the stadium situation is for Atlantic Canada. Will any government out there be willing to invest in a stadium? There is still no solid commitment at this time. Should the CFL consider some smaller markets across the border? I'm not sure. While it's good to look at things in a positive way, there's nothing wrong with being genuinely concerned about the future of the league and the direction it should take.

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Very good post Booster, and I pretty much agree with your whole post. It is a "perplexing" situation as you say. One of the above posters pretty well sums it up - poster is @raideralex99 - who lives in Victoria, which is very close to Seattle. He says he knows more people there in Victoria with Seahawks tickets. I can't say that I blame them, as the NFL is a superior product. I'd love to see a Seahawks game as well. This should tell us something, as we've been discussing.

At one time in the 1960's the CFL could compete salary wise to attract players, and today they can't come close. Example - Joe Theisman had won the Heisman Trophy in US college, and several NFL teams wanted him, and Toronto outbid them. Theisman went on to play with the Argos, then headed south to the Redskins after about 4 years or so.

I can also remember when Commonwealth in Edmonton was attracting 60,000 people, and now it's about 30,000. The same goes for other cities - as you say ?? Hard to understand why ??

I don't know what the answer is, when you have the NFL offering a better product, and also people are now able to watch the games on their "big screen " TV's in the comfort of their own homes. These new modern 60 inch screen TV's are just as good as being at the game live.

I think it's looking like the league is shrinking, and they may have to adjust ticket prices and salaries to survive. I'm not quite sure if the CFL can be revived to the "greatness" it enjoyed from the 1950's thru to the 1970's -- those days look like their over.

I'm not quite sure what the answer is either, but I do hope the CFL survives, and I think it will, but maybe in a smaller way.

 

[Board Bard]

I went to a Seahawks game at that monstrous concrete garbage can they had. Honestly, the game didn't look much different from a CFL game, and nowhere near the hype it gets from Canadian NFL fans. It's the quality of the TV broadcast that makes it look better. Put Rod Black in an NFL booth and you'd soon be switching channels.

 

[Trinity]

I went to a Seahawks game at that monstrous concrete garbage can they had. Honestly, the game didn't look much different from a CFL game, and nowhere near the hype it gets from Canadian NFL fans. It's the quality of the TV broadcast that makes it look better. Put Rod Black in an NFL booth and you'd soon be switching channels.

I agree. The CFL game is a much better product.