Confirmed with Link: Wings trade Andreas Athanasiou to Edmonton

[Retire91]

You have to play your way onto those lines in the first place.

Miguel Cabrera could hit 100 home runs if they let him use a tee.

But that isn't related to anything I said. All I said is if AA played on the top line a full season 40-50 could happen. Is that really unreasonable? I never said he should get top line minutes or he will or what he deserves all I said is a player with a 30 goal season in the books that is still in his prime and has the wheels to keep up with McDavid's rush could "COULD" put up 40-50. And the f***ing world ended.

 

[vladdy16]

But that isn't related to anything I said. All I said is if AA played on the top line a full season 40-50 could happen. Is that really unreasonable? I never said he should get top line minutes or he will or what he deserves all I said is a player with a 30 goal season in the books that is still in his prime and has the wheels to keep up with McDavid's rush could "COULD" put up 40-50. And the f***ing world ended.

The world didn't end, the legs of your argument did. That's why we collaborate in conversation.

But I don't see the difference between your hypothetical about AA on an elite scoring line and mine about Cabrera hitting off a tee. That's the part that is unreasonable imo.

 

[Ezekial]

You have to play your way onto those lines in the first place.

Miguel Cabrera could hit 100 home runs if they let him use a tee.

Nah, he should be handed those minutes and he will magically get 40-50 because McDavid, even though AA sucks at cycling.

 

[Bench]

All I said is if AA played on the top line a full season 40-50 could happen. Is that really unreasonable?

Yes, kind of. McDavid himself has failed to eclipse 41 goals, the low end of your scale. Leon is one of the best players in the world and hit 50 last year.

So you think it's reasonable for AA to do the same thing? Ehhh. That would be a massive achievement for him, not a reasonable expectation.

Going from 30 goals to 40 goals is 133% production. That's no small feat, even strapped next to elite players. And, that's taking AAs best single season, not his career average. McDavid is himself the best player and the world and 40 goals is something he has to claw for, not a routine expectation.

So yes, it's kind of unreasonable.

AA as a top line 40+ goal scorer has always been a pipe dream. Start dreaming about him being a 20-30 goal guy who can shift between the 2nd and 3rd line and will help the 2nd PP unit. Because right now he's struggling to achieve the 2nd dream.

 

[Retire91]

The world didn't end, the legs of your argument did. That's why we collaborate in conversation.

But I don't see the difference between your hypothetical about AA on an elite scoring line and mine about Cabrera hitting off a tee. That's the part that is unreasonable imo.

I never even made an argument. Just a casual comment. A 30 goal scorer still in their prime could score 40-50 full time on one of the best lines in the world.

If you are simply disagreeing fine. I'm good. If you are piling on that I would even have the audacity to think such a thing that is what I take exception to.

Yes, kind of. McDavid himself has failed to eclipse 41 goals, the low end of your scale. Leon is one of the best players in the world and hit 50 last year.

So you think it's reasonable for AA to do the same thing? Ehhh. That would be a massive achievement for him, not a reasonable expectation.

Going from 30 goals to 40 goals is 133% production. That's no small feat, even strapped next to elite players. And, that's taking AAs best single season, not his career average. McDavid is himself the best player and the world and 40 goals is something he has to claw for, not a routine expectation.

So yes, it's kind of unreasonable.

AA as a top line 40+ goal scorer has always been a pipe dream. Start dreaming about him being a 20-30 goal guy who can shift between the 2nd and 3rd line and will help the 2nd PP unit. Because right now he's struggling to achieve the 2nd dream.

It's October 2005. Johnathan Cheechoo 'could' score 40-50 this year. Whether or not it sounds ridiculous if you put someone who can find the net in an ideal situation strange things can happen


I get what you are saying if what I said offends people that much I redact it, sheesh.

 

[vladdy16]

Nah, he should be handed those minutes and he will magically get 40-50 because McDavid, even though AA sucks at cycling.

Props to R91 for having the guts to supplement their opinion and stick to it with evidence and hypotheticals though. I don't think this particular argument on AA's behalf has legs to it, but it's nice to have something to go on besides "bro, you don't even..."

 

[vladdy16]

I never even made an argument. Just a casual comment. A 30 goal scorer still in their prime could score 40-50 full time on one of the best lines in the world.

If you are simply disagreeing fine. I'm good. If you are piling on that I would even have the audacity to think such a thing that is what I take exception to.



It's October 2005. Johnathan Cheechoo 'could' score 40-50 this year. Whether or not it sounds ridiculous if you put someone who can find the net in an ideal situation strange things can happen

Yeah, no worries at all. I think your point has been the baseline for a lot of conversations about AA this year, so that's maybe where we're asking you to go the extra mile if you want it to stick, but if you're just taking a passing glance at AA's overall potential, I don't think anyone would argue that he doesn't have the potential to be a difference making goal scorer.

 

[vladdy16]

I get what you are saying if what I said offends people that much I redact it, sheesh.

If you are making posts that are not ambiguous, that people can react to directly, the last thing you should do is refrain from posting imo.

 

[Retire91]

I don't know if this is a redirection and if so I don't mean it but in all honesty I am happy to have the two seconds and he is no longer our question mark. And if he succeeds there even pie in the sky levels I will still be fine because I don't think it was happening here.

 

[2xJack]

I'm sticking a fork in AA. He's simply not very good and we robbed Edmonton out of two 2nd rounders. Dude is pointless in 5 games, since his debut in fact. He lasted 1.5 games on McDaddy's line and is now getting about 12 minutes in a 3rd or 4th line role. Most importantly, he's made some real boneheaded plays. He had a defensive zone giveaway the other day that directly led to a goal against, when he had an open D-man behind his net he could have passed to.

If AA had any hockey sense he'd be a hell of a player. Instead, what is there is the mind of a beer leaguer in an elite skater's body.

File AA away with Hudler's Potential, Hossa vs. Franzen, The Streak, Dan Cleary, Quincey-for-a-First, Ricelund's Rumor Mongering, etc.

There are a few more: Holland, good or bad GM... Retire 91... Osgood, HoF worthy?

 

[Bench]

It's October 2005. Johnathan Cheechoo 'could' score 40-50 this year. Whether or not it sounds ridiculous if you put someone who can find the net in an ideal situation strange things can happen

I get what you are saying if what I said offends people that much I redact it, sheesh.

You asked if it was reasonable. I don't think it is reasonable and tried to highlight why. Cheechoo is an extreme outlier, so while he demonstrates it's possible, the fact he is such an outlier dictates it is not reasonable.

But you know, the fun part of sports is it can often be unpredictable. If we knew what would happen every season, what would be the point, eh? So no, I don't think you're offending anyone with your 50 goal AA hot take. But I think many people are going to be eager to point out how far from reality that scenario is right now.

We'll have to circle back to this in a year or two. I still don't see AA ascending beyond TJ Oshie status - as a best case scenario for him. Oshie has been remarkably consistent. Let's see if AA can still pot 20+ in another 8 years.

BY THE WAY! Tangental rant incoming.

The Oshie trade is such a fantastic example of not being able to judge a trade by immediate value. Let me break down why.

The Blues sent forward TJ Oshie to the Caps in exchange for forward Troy Brouwer, goaltender Pheonix Copley and a third-round pick in the 2016 NHL Entry Draft.

Right off the bat, the Caps are the clear winner here. Brouwer flamed out with the Blues after a year. Copley didn't stick with the Blues. And a 3rd round pick? Yeah. Meanwhile, it's 2018 and the Caps have just won a Cup with Oshie helping. Easy win for Washington.

Buuuuuuuttttttt...

Copley was part of the Shattenkirk deal that sent Zach Sanford and Brad Malone, as well as a first-round pick in the 2017 draft. Sanford broke out to help the Blues win the Cup in 2019. And the 1st round pick was used to acquire Brayden Schenn.

That 3rd round pick from the Caps was used to trade up and select Tage Thompson.

Then Tage Thompson was used as a trade piece to acquire Ryan O'Reilly.

So like... initial value, I think the Caps did great. But those pieces the Blues got, while they didn't directly turn into key players, were all used as assets to move the needle to acquire the likes of Ryan O'Reilly, Sanford, and Schenn. And hey, that's worked out great.

It took from 2015 until 2019 for the dust to fully settle on that trade.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Cheechoo had 28 in the season before Thornton got to SJ, and was on pace for 23/24 before Thornton arrived in 05/06.

You're totally right. I stand corrected. 28 is still half of 56, so we're still asking for a much smaller increase from AA than Cheechoo had, but as others have said that was a pretty ideal scenario for Cheechoo. Thus I still think it's totally reasonable that AA could get 40. It's not likely to happen, but reasonable IMO.

 

[SoupGuru]

We need to combine this thread with the AA thread on the Oilers forum.

The exact same arguments.

AA is a very polarizing player.

 

[Konnan511]

Oh my god, this thread is still going?

There are three factions from what I can tell:
1.) Hope AA does well there.
2.) I will point out every time he doesn't get a point or does something dumb.
3.) Like, what if, like, he, does good stuff, but better?

 

[rhef3]

Yea I'm still surprised this thread is still going

Farewell AA, but business is business

 

[Ishad]

Oh my god, this thread is still going?

Nothing else to talk about at the nhl level until the draft lottery...

 

[Retire91]

There are three factions from what I can tell:
1.) Hope AA does well there.
2.) I will point out every time he doesn't get a point or does something dumb.
3.) Like, what if, like, he, does good stuff, but better?

Hahahahahahhah. If anything it will be fun to watch what happens no matter what happens.

 

[2xJack]

There are three factions from what I can tell:
1.) Hope AA does well there.
2.) I will point out every time he doesn't get a point or does something dumb.
3.) Like, what if, like, he, does good stuff, but better?

Number 3 is more like "we gave AA away for nothing. Watch him light up the scoresheet on a talented team". It's the weekend. Why not... I'll have some of whatever that faction is on.

 

[jkutswings]

How about this:

If AA is surrounded by:
* Forwards that play defense for him
* Defensemen that spring him
* Coaches that give him carte blanche
* Teammates that never get frustrated

Then yes, it's certainly possible that he could score 40 goals one day.

And it would be an idiodic misuse of a roster, largely sabotaging the greater good for an individual.

Debating the semantics of this is a waste if time. It's like arguing whether a person is crazier when their shoes have laces or Velcro. The larger point - the only one that matters - is that they're crazy.

Whether the scenario could be constructed for AA to score 40 is irrelevant, because the gymnastics it would take to get him there would flush your roster's overall potential down the toilet. No matter how you slice it, he's a headache that isn't worth it (in terms of maximizing his skill set).

 

[nhlisawesome]

It takes like 20-30 games to wipe the stink off of playing in our Blashill coached shitty system. Anthanisiu will do fine next season

 

[TatarTangle]

It takes like 20-30 games to wipe the stink off of playing in our Blashill coached shitty system. Anthanisiu will do fine next season

You keep saying this yet the good players on the team haven't taken a dive off a cliff like AA has.

 

[DInTheB]

 

[jkutswings]

Yep, I'm definitely seeing some signs...

And what kind of base he has as to his game...

 

[The Zermanator]

How about this:

If AA is surrounded by:
* Forwards that play defense for him
* Defensemen that spring him
* Coaches that give him carte blanche
* Teammates that never get frustrated

And it would be an idiodic misuse of a roster, largely sabotaging the greater good for an individual.

That's where am I regarding AA. Not hard to see why Yzerman valued him much less (as well as every other GM apparently) than what some around here do. Yzerman was a hotshot offensive star when he was a young player and the Wings were still underperforming. To the point that Bowman was ready to trade him. If I recall, Bowman told him he would never be a champion if he was one-dimensional (or something that that effect). So Yzerman changed his game to become a complete 200ft player. His offensive numbers took a big hit, but the Wings also turned the corner and started winning Cups. So yeah, not surprising Yzerman was ready to move on.

 

[lilidk]

Don't worry about AA , he's going to be a killer, don't take him lightly when Oilers playing against Wings.