Confirmed with Link: Wings re-sign Abdelkader for 7 years 4.25m/yr full NTC in first 4 yrs, partial after

[Winger98]

Bertuzzi and Athanasiou are bottom 6 players. Svech is suppose to be a center, Franzen is likely done (which might be another reason Holland wanted to get the Abby deal done)...

Mantha... oh boy. I want to stay optimistic, but really hasn't shown anything that screams NHL talent.

That leaves Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin and Zetterberg. Like it or not, but Wings are very, very thin on "Abdelkader" type players. And finding players like him isn't as easy as a waiver pickup or a trade scraps for...

Abdelkader was getting more than this deal on the open market. He didn't give a small home team discount, but he could have gotten more if he held out.

He wasn't getting more years. Maybe more money per, maybe, but no one would have given him 7 years, and if they did, they wouldn't have given him more money. That's the point in giving a guy extra years, you save a bit on the cash end, but we gave both.

And I'm not sure how needed an "Abdelkader type" is in the top6 right now. Look at TB's best line. Montreal has been a team of midgets for awhile now. The Hawks have done pretty well without a Gator type taking up the top6. One of our best lines in recent years was Flip-Z-Hudler that had Hudler as the net front guy.

This isn't to say we don't need some bangers, but skilled players tend to find a way to get the job done if they are willing to do it. And whoever brought Draper's numbers up should be more evidence for why you don't go out of your way to promote lesser players into the top half of a lineup. Most of those big numbers Draper put up came when his IT shot up and he was playing a bunch of minutes he wasn't getting before, largely during the Lewis years that people decry as being so horrible. Well, yeah, we were having to play Draper and Maltby top6 minutes. (well, Maltby was #7 in 02/03, one second behind Draper per game).

Instead of blowing $4.5m on Abdelkader, look for a better player next summer, and sign a guy like Matt Martin to crash and bang for ten minutes a night on the fourth line.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Context is everything, which is what makes this contract extra terrible.

One bad contract like Jonathan Ericsson's is not great, but manageable. Two bad contracts and you start to get in trouble. Three bad contracts, which is where we will be when Mrazek get's his raise and Holland doesn't trade Howard because Ken Holland doesn't do trades, and you are screwed. 11-12 million spent on a backup goalie, third pairing defenseman and a player currently on pace for 38 points.

But you go on and continue to defend every move Holland makes, and blame Blashill instead.

You keep calling Ericsson a bottom pairing d-man but he has played exclusively in our top 4D for many seasons now. Mostly top-pairing even. Being on that top pairing is likely what gave him 0.50-0.75m extra on that contract. 3.5-4.0 is fair for a #4 type of d-man which is what Ericsson is.

And Howard is paid like a #1, which is what he has been for the last 5 years.

And I'm not sure how needed an "Abdelkader type" is in the top6 right now. Look at TB's best line. Montreal has been a team of midgets for awhile now. The Hawks have done pretty well without a Gator type taking up the top6. One of our best lines in recent years was Flip-Z-Hudler that had Hudler as the net front guy.

TB's best line is (other than really struggling and being broken up this season) young, fast and highly skilled. Our most comparable line is Tatar-Larkin-Nyquist, which can work. But Tampa's got a different type of team, they have a much better defense that can move the puck, and their core is young. They still play Callahan and Killorn in their top 6 from time to time I think. Montreal has always been criticized for being too small. A lot of their offense comes from their elite sniper Pacioretty and two of the best offensive Ds in the league. Weise is doing great for them this year, a somewhat similar player to Abby.
Chicago has a ridiculous amount of skill. Just like when we could ice Dats, Z, Hossa, Franzen, Fillpula and Hudler in the top 6 you don't need a grinder there.

Dats and Z are no longer in their prime. They are not Toews and Kane or Stamkos and Johnson. They can't do all the hard-work they used to be able to do. Guys like Abby and Helm are being used to offload them.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Ericsson isnt qualified to play in the top four in terms of talent. Maybe a #4 if someone is babysitting for him. Bad top pairing defenseman. Mediocre second pairing defenseman. Serviceable third pairing defenseman. Six years for Jonathan Ericsson. He already isn't even coming close to living up to his contract and he still has four more years left on it.

I have no issue with Howard's contract. It will be an issue when Mrazek gets a raise and if you think Holland will trade him, you haven't been paying attention to Ken 'we love bad depth' Holland.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Ericsson isnt qualified to play in the top four in terms of talent. Maybe a #4 if someone is babysitting for him. Bad top pairing defenseman. Mediocre second pairing defenseman. Serviceable third pairing defenseman. Six years for Jonathan Ericsson. He already isn't even coming close to living up to his contract and he still has four more years left on it.

I have no issue with Howard's contract. It will be an issue when Mrazek gets a raise and if you think Holland will trade him, you haven't been paying attention to Ken 'we love bad depth' Holland.

Your expectations of a #4 are likely too high. Especially one playing his off-side. Ericsson is being slightly overpaid but that's what happens when his agent can say "he is on the top-pairing of a playoff team" in negotiations and you're not swimming in other options. It's just the way it goes. Ideally we would have landed Suter and one of Smith and Kindl would have turned into a 2nd pairing guy. But those things didn't happen.

And I have no interest in talking about hypothetical doom-and-gloom scenarios of which we have no track record to compare to. Holland has never really had a goaltending situation like this to handle. Depending on how Mrazek's next contract looks like it may be viable to keep them both for at least 1 more year.

 

[Chance on Chance]

The contract is nothing to be excited about, but it's not as bad as some people are trying to make it out to be.

He'll be what 36 when it expires? That's not a big deal. And 4.25 in 7 years will be like 2 million today.

Then no contracts a bad contract, Clarkson? who cares the last year of his deal will be like 2 million.

Having Abby for this long does nothing good for us. Why not give him a 4 year deal? If he doesnt want it then let him walk. Hollands loyalty has been a problem. He treats every player like his son

 

[vladdy16]

Experience- Check
Leadership- Check
Intangibles- Check
Playoff Performer- Check
Consistent- Check
Year in year out improvement- Check
Versatile- Check
Still Young- CHECK

Potential 50 goal scorer? No. Those guys make 7mil+, not 4.

I really have no idea, besides boredom, where you guys are finding your thoughts on this one. It's an obvious, baseline move.

You can't just move 18 individual people in and out of the locker room year in year out as you please. You're building an organization. That involves communication, chemistry, consistency, etc.

While his stats and highlights won't add up to be the best value in his price range, his salary is downright modest. The writing has been on the wall for years that Abdelkader was earning his stripes in the right way, and it was going to be a good idea to keep him around as long as possible.

He's not a speedster or scoring winger, he's not a goalie and he's not over 35, so there is very little chance that Abdelkader will turn from the solid core player that he currently is into a fringe player at any point in the next half decade. Not an exorbitant contract, not a risky contract, a solid, smart move, and a nice base to shape future plans.

There's 68 more million dollars to go around, cheer up.

 

[ZDH]

Yea, 68 million more to overpay another 3rd liner or two.

We are ****ed.

 

[Lampedampe]

Experience- Check
Leadership- Check
Intangibles- Check
Playoff Performer- Check
Consistent- Check
Year in year out improvement- Check
Versatile- Check
Still Young- CHECK

Potential 50 goal scorer? No. Those guys make 7mil+, not 4.

I really have no idea, besides boredom, where you guys are finding your thoughts on this one. It's an obvious, baseline move.

You can't just move 18 individual people in and out of the locker room year in year out as you please. You're building an organization. That involves communication, chemistry, consistency, etc.

While his stats and highlights won't add up to be the best value in his price range, his salary is downright modest. The writing has been on the wall for years that Abdelkader was earning his stripes in the right way, and it was going to be a good idea to keep him around as long as possible.

He's not a speedster or scoring winger, he's not a goalie and he's not over 35, so there is very little chance that Abdelkader will turn from the solid core player that he currently is into a fringe player at any point in the next half decade. Not an exorbitant contract, not a risky contract, a solid, smart move, and a nice base to shape future plans.

There's 68 more million dollars to go around, cheer up.

I think everyone's agreeing that the money is fine, and everyone here would also agree that Abby is an important piece. However, what everyone is saying is that the term is insane, i would say that at 7 years i would expect less money than 4.25, i'd expect Franzen money in all honestly. I wouldn't even offer him 7 years though, only young players with great potential or elite/franchise players ever get those terms really.. I just don't get what wen't through Kennys head when he made this deal, how can he predict the cap situation 4-6 years from now?

But yeah Abby is a important piece and he'll probably contribute to the team in the coming 4 years and then start to drop off. But then again after 4 years his nmc is done so maybe a trade could be made if cap space is needed.

 

[Shaman464]

Experience- Check
Leadership- Check
Intangibles- Check
Playoff Performer- Check
Consistent- Check
Year in year out improvement- Check
Versatile- Check
Still Young- CHECK

Potential 50 goal scorer? No. Those guys make 7mil+, not 4.

I really have no idea, besides boredom, where you guys are finding your thoughts on this one. It's an obvious, baseline move.

You can't just move 18 individual people in and out of the locker room year in year out as you please. You're building an organization. That involves communication, chemistry, consistency, etc.

While his stats and highlights won't add up to be the best value in his price range, his salary is downright modest. The writing has been on the wall for years that Abdelkader was earning his stripes in the right way, and it was going to be a good idea to keep him around as long as possible.

He's not a speedster or scoring winger, he's not a goalie and he's not over 35, so there is very little chance that Abdelkader will turn from the solid core player that he currently is into a fringe player at any point in the next half decade. Not an exorbitant contract, not a risky contract, a solid, smart move, and a nice base to shape future plans.

There's 68 more million dollars to go around, cheer up.

The bolded aren't true. In fact I can name more instances where Abdelkader cost us games in the playoffs than you could games he was a major factor in. He's also not consistent, his biggest rip last year was he got hot then disappeared. Finally he's not that young, and the contract takes him into relative old age.

 

[gretskidoo]

Playoff Performer- Check

A guy that just about halves his production in the playoffs is not someone I would call a "playoff performer", but what do I know..

 

[PullHard]

However I have been quite critical of the hiring of Blashill.

Really? I must have missed that

 

[Winger98]

TB's best line is (other than really struggling and being broken up this season) young, fast and highly skilled. Our most comparable line is Tatar-Larkin-Nyquist, which can work. But Tampa's got a different type of team, they have a much better defense that can move the puck, and their core is young. They still play Callahan and Killorn in their top 6 from time to time I think. Montreal has always been criticized for being too small. A lot of their offense comes from their elite sniper Pacioretty and two of the best offensive Ds in the league. Weise is doing great for them this year, a somewhat similar player to Abby.
Chicago has a ridiculous amount of skill. Just like when we could ice Dats, Z, Hossa, Franzen, Fillpula and Hudler in the top 6 you don't need a grinder there.

Dats and Z are no longer in their prime. They are not Toews and Kane or Stamkos and Johnson. They can't do all the hard-work they used to be able to do. Guys like Abby and Helm are being used to offload them.

I've been trying to find a way to get my thoughts in order for a response, and I think the bolded is as good a place as any. Tampa is a different type of team,but what "type" of team are we, or do we hope to be? I look at us, and I see us being a lot closer to a TB or Chicago style team than a Boston/LA type of team. And if we need someone to help shoulder Zetterberg and Datsyuk's load, it's not Helm and Abdelkader we need to see stepping up and being leaned on, but Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Sheahan, Mantha, etc.

This club makes me think a lot of those Lewis years. I know Lewis got slammed for being too easy on them or whatever, but he also had a number of older guys who couldn't carry the load, and some kids coming up who weren't ready to shoulder it themselves. So he played his depth guys too much, got us into the playoffs, and got us eliminated. Instead of the big investment in Abdelkader, I think I'd rather see us keep that salary free to throw at a bigger fish over the summer, and maybe just ripping the bandaid off now and playing the young guys a bit more and just letting the chips fall where they may. It feels like we're trying to have our cake and eat it, too, and it's just not working.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Lewis had two 100+ point seasons and won his division both years. Does anyone really believe this team has any shot at that point total or winning the division? If Blashill had back to back 100 point seasons and won the division both years would he be fired and if so who would you hire to replace him?

 

[Winger98]

I don't know why you think 100 points is out of the question for this club.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Playoff Performer- Check
Consistent- Check
Still Young- CHECK

Sorry you do not win the game of I want to be a millionaire.

The only good series I have seen Abdelkader play in is against Anaheim. And thats only because hes a duck killer. Every other series he has been invisible. Except for hitting. So he gets paid 4 million to hit? lel

He is not young. And this deal takes him until he is well past his prime. Especially since hes not a star and never will be.

Consistent? Maybe Consistently bad at scoring.

 

[vladdy16]

I think everyone's agreeing that the money is fine, and everyone here would also agree that Abby is an important piece. However, what everyone is saying is that the term is insane, i would say that at 7 years i would expect less money than 4.25, i'd expect Franzen money in all honestly. I wouldn't even offer him 7 years though, only young players with great potential or elite/franchise players ever get those terms really.. I just don't get what wen't through Kennys head when he made this deal, how can he predict the cap situation 4-6 years from now?

But yeah Abby is a important piece and he'll probably contribute to the team in the coming 4 years and then start to drop off. But then again after 4 years his nmc is done so maybe a trade could be made if cap space is needed.

Gotcha. I think the term is kind of irrelevant honestly, Abdelkader has already passed the point where you would worry about a forward falling off, and his production is fairly insubstantial as it is, so I'm not worried about that. I totally see your point, but to me this move has all the marks of an experienced GM getting ahead of the market, and I think as time goes on, it'll be easy to appreciate the logic behind this move and actually the flexibility it will offer the Red Wings moving forward.

Yea, 68 million more to overpay another 3rd liner or two.

I think this contract is the precise reason you have no reason to worry about another 3rd liner on the same pay scale. We picked our 3rd liner we're going to overpay and I think we picked a good one.


To everyone else, I stand by what I said, with two exceptions. I now see I should have placed more emphasis on how limited my expectations have been and will be for Abdelkader in terms of raw production. Peak Marty Lapointe would be nice from Abdelkader offensively, but in this day and age, he can fall completely flat production wise and still be a valuable player I think. Second, using the same logic, maybe I should've termed him as a playoff asset instead of performer, because as I said, I don't think raw production is really a factor in the move or an important part of Abdelkaders game.

I think some might be applying the general/traditional development model for a forward to Abdelkader unnescesarrily. I don't think he's done devolping and I don't think he was that talented to begin with, so I expect as he gets older his skills won't diminish as much as his experience and knack will grow.

If the Red Wings find themselves competing deep in the playoffs, I think Abdelkader will find himself in a position to capitilaze on experience and continued growth to have an important impact on and off the score sheet.

To further incriminate myself, I'll also say that I think the Franzen comparison is a nice barometer on this subject, as I think Abdelkader has a higher on ice IQ and I'd probably go as far as to say he's a more complete player than Franzen was. Kind of like how I'd rather have Rajai Davis in a lineup than Adam Dunn.

 

[ricky0034]

I've been trying to find a way to get my thoughts in order for a response, and I think the bolded is as good a place as any. Tampa is a different type of team,but what "type" of team are we, or do we hope to be? I look at us, and I see us being a lot closer to a TB or Chicago style team than a Boston/LA type of team. And if we need someone to help shoulder Zetterberg and Datsyuk's load, it's not Helm and Abdelkader we need to see stepping up and being leaned on, but Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Sheahan, Mantha, etc.

This club makes me think a lot of those Lewis years. I know Lewis got slammed for being too easy on them or whatever, but he also had a number of older guys who couldn't carry the load, and some kids coming up who weren't ready to shoulder it themselves. So he played his depth guys too much, got us into the playoffs, and got us eliminated. Instead of the big investment in Abdelkader, I think I'd rather see us keep that salary free to throw at a bigger fish over the summer, and maybe just ripping the bandaid off now and playing the young guys a bit more and just letting the chips fall where they may. It feels like we're trying to have our cake and eat it, too, and it's just not working.

and the thing is it's November and Abdelkader was signed for the rest of the season anyways,they had almost an entire season to test the waters like you say with younger guys and they STILL could have brought back Abdelkader later on for at worst the same contract(probably a better one when he failed to put up good numbers) if they really felt the need

 

[Winger98]

and the thing is it's November and Abdelkader was signed for the rest of the season anyways,they had almost an entire season to test the waters like you say with younger guys and they STILL could have brought back Abdelkader later on for at worst the same contract(probably a better one when he failed to put up good numbers) if they really felt the need

Yeah, the rush to get it done doesn't make sense to me, either. Especially with the deal we gave him. I know MacKenzie said something along the lines of us wanting to make sure we kept him and that Abdelkader would have gotten a good deal on the open market, but I can't imagine our deal not turning his head in April just as quickly as it seemed to get him to the signing table here in November.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Yeah, the rush to get it done doesn't make sense to me, either. Especially with the deal we gave him. I know MacKenzie said something along the lines of us wanting to make sure we kept him and that Abdelkader would have gotten a good deal on the open market, but I can't imagine our deal not turning his head in April just as quickly as it seemed to get him to the signing table here in November.

Pretty much my thoughts. Especially considering Abdelkader had completely stopped scoring after the 4th game, but for some reason they needed to sign him while he was proving his ridiculous streakiness and hadn't even gotten near 20 goals, yet. I mean, he is supposed to be a "20 goal scorer" now, but they couldn't wait for him to do it more than once in his career.

 

[Henkka]

Pretty much my thoughts. Especially considering Abdelkader had completely stopped scoring after the 4th game, but for some reason they needed to sign him while he was proving his ridiculous streakiness and hadn't even gotten near 20 goals, yet. I mean, he is supposed to be a "20 goal scorer" now, but they couldn't wait for him to do it more than once in his career.

You buy stocks when the price is low.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

You buy stocks when the price is low.

Players aren't stocks. I would rather he score another 20 goals and earn the potential for a long-term contract than give it to him right now because he may cost a little bit less now than midway through the season.

 

[Henkka]

Players aren't stocks. I would rather he score another 20 goals and earn the potential for a long-term contract than give it to him right now because he may cost a little bit less now than midway through the season.

What if he scores 25 and is asking 5.25M next summer and there's no one else on the market?

Players are stocks (if not cattle) and Abdelkader is a stock which has great potential to be more than 4.25M after Pavel Datsyuk returns to feed him again.

I just laugh how much better Ken Holland is on the map than anybody in here.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

What if he scores 25 and is asking 5.25M next summer and there's no one else on the market?

Players are stocks (if not cattle) and Abdelkader is a stock which has great potential to be more than 4.25M after Pavel Datsyuk returns to feed him again.

I just laugh how much better Ken Holland is on the map than anybody in here.

What will it take for you to realize Ken Holland doesn't have some kind of master plan that is on step 456 out of 523?

Almost every decision Holland has made since 09-10 has been out of fear and panic and proven to be incredibly short sighted. It shouldn't surprise anyone that his decison making process doesn't really take any long term considerations because Kenny is literally only trying to keep the streak alive. Nothing more. Nothing less.

NHL rebuilds can't take more than 3-4 years. Any longer and you are just going from one rebuild to another. The Wings aren't going to get off this treadmill of mediocrity by signing Gator to a seven year contract. A contract that ends two years after Z's does.

Only elite talent should get 5,6,7+ year contracts. Because only elite talent is irreplaceable.

If a team feels it can't replace what Gator brings, i'll show you a deeply flawed team.

Why didn't Bickell get a seven year deal at 4.25? The Hawks are a team that are constantly going from one cap hell to another, and would have surely benefited from bringing down Bickell's cap hit by adding years to his deal, but they didn't. Why? Because their leadership has won three cups over the past six years and know that giving players like Bickell long term contracts isn't how you win cups. Although they did make the mistake of signing him in the first place, but when you have an elite core, you have a much bigger margin for error.

 

[Winger98]

Pretty much my thoughts. Especially considering Abdelkader had completely stopped scoring after the 4th game, but for some reason they needed to sign him while he was proving his ridiculous streakiness and hadn't even gotten near 20 goals, yet. I mean, he is supposed to be a "20 goal scorer" now, but they couldn't wait for him to do it more than once in his career.

Honestly, I'm not sure it really mattered what Abdelkader did the rest of the year. I think Holland sets aside a dollar amount, and come hell or high water that's what he offers. We saw it with how he dealt with Hudler, Sammy, and Hossa in the past when they walked while we signed Franzen, we've seen him do it for a couple of years now with Cleary. It's just how he seems to operate. I wouldn't be surprised if his negotiations with Abdelkader was Holland naming a dollar amount and then just adding years until Abdelkader signed.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Ahh yes, the old "unsustainable sh%" argument, with no context used at all.

We already illustrated to you that deflections and garbage goals are even more difficult and reflect how a high shooting percentage is more unsustainable than the contrary.