Confirmed with Link: Wings Protected List

[jaster]

Here you go:

Case for Stecher: currently the best Wings defensemen available to Seattle and not the worst defender on the Wings roster (this is however, a bit like being the tallest midget). Has limitations as an NHL player but competes hard and has above average mobility. Not a naturally gifted passer of the puck.

Case against Stecher: only under contract for one more year. Wings fans tend to overrate him (a combination of fancy stats + having low expectations from watching much worse defensemen for a long period of time). We could protect him, but there is no guarantee he will re-sign with the Wings. I for one don't see him as having much deadline trade value. He doesn't fit the style of defensemen coveted for the playoffs. He competes, but on his best day he is league average defensively (if not below average) and doesn't bring enough offensively to have a net positive in playoff hockey. Teams looking to upgrade at the deadline will always have better options. He also brings absolutely nothing with respect to specialty teams which also makes him less attractive at the deadline.

Case for Lindstrom: cheap, still young, team-controlled player. Pretty solid one-on-one defender in the defensive zone (not as good in transition), reads the play well defensively, maintains a close gap and is quick to close, has a good stick and takes good angles, has shown enough to suggest he could still develop into a solid, stable, bottom-pair defensemen (which is the best Stecher would be on a more competitive team).

Case against Lindstrom: not currently as good as Stecher (may never be), probably won't make it too far up the lineup on a more competitive team due to mobility and limitations with his offensive game, could still stand to get stronger.

Well done, monkey!

I agree with that at large. I do think Lindstrom has a chance at developing into a good enough shutdown defender to be a middle-pairing guy, however that's far from certain, and even if he does the Wings will hopefully have 4 better defensemen by then. Then again, part of the makeup of a winning roster is often having a top-4 caliber player on your bottom-pair. Would be a boon if Lindstrom developed into that, though we do have plenty of other defense prospects who might do the same.

For me, Lindstrom is at least a little bit interesting. I respect Stecher's compete and he seems like a solid teammate, but he's not very interesting when it comes to roster makeup right now. In the end, I'd simply feel more depressed about our roster protecting Stecher than I do Lindstrom

 

[ShelbyZ]

Unless they work out a deal with Bernier or one of the Wings other UFA's, my money would be on Seattle taking Stecher.

He'd be a pretty versatile option:

-Would give them a serviceable #4-6D at a cap hit that would allow them to grab some other desireable larger cap hits in the ED
-They could move him later this summer or at the TDL and get somewhat a decent return
-He's from just over the US/CAN border around 2 hours north, so he'll probably be happy to go there and likely to stick around if they have interest in retaining him past next season

I would think Namestnikov would be a similar case at forward where he'd be an affordable and versatile bottom to middle 6 guy, but probably wouldn't have the same value as a guy they could move down the road.

 

[Hen Kolland]

The decision was pretty obvious based on TOI after the trade deadline.

The trade deadline was April 12th...coincidentally the same day that Lindstrom played his first game.

In 13 games, he averaged 16 minutes and actually played over 16 minutes 4 times. 7 of his starts, he played less than 15 minutes.

From the same date, Stecher played 12 games, averaging 16:47. Actually played over 16 minutes 9 out of those 12 games. He played less than 15 minutes twice.

For someone that was so adamant that "it's obvious who was watching games because they know Stecher was benched in favor of Lindstrom" you'd think that you put even 1 millisecond in vetting out the truth with the actual statistics. Not to mention you were also candid about all the times you didn't watch games, or couldn't watch games until the 3rd period.

It's almost like YOU weren't watching the games.

 

[Gniwder]

The trade deadline was April 12th...coincidentally the same day that Lindstrom played his first game.

In 13 games, he averaged 16 minutes and actually played over 16 minutes 4 times. 7 of his starts, he played less than 15 minutes.

From the same date, Stecher played 12 games, averaging 16:47. Actually played over 16 minutes 9 out of those 12 games. He played less than 15 minutes twice.

For someone that was so adamant that "it's obvious who was watching games because they know Stecher was benched in favor of Lindstrom" you'd think that you put even 1 millisecond in vetting out the truth with the actual statistics. Not to mention you were also candid about all the times you didn't watch games, or couldn't watch games until the 3rd period.

It's almost like YOU weren't watching the games.

You might want to look at the game logs buddy. Lindstrom's TOI was trending up while Stecher's was trending down, and he got healthy scratched as well. You're stat watching, and trying to play a numbers game. Look at the actual numbers:

Gustav Lindstrom Stats and News | NHL.com
Troy Stecher Stats and News | NHL.com

Edit: You know this team is a dumpster fire when people start arguing over garbage like Stecher, Cholo, Svech, etc. None of them would be on a Cup team.....

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Well done, monkey!

I agree with that at large. I do think Lindstrom has a chance at developing into a good enough shutdown defender to be a middle-pairing guy, however that's far from certain, and even if he does the Wings will hopefully have 4 better defensemen by then. Then again, part of the makeup of a winning roster is often having a top-4 caliber player on your bottom-pair. Would be a boon if Lindstrom developed into that, though we do have plenty of other defense prospects who might do the same.

For me, Lindstrom is at least a little bit interesting. I respect Stecher's compete and he seems like a solid teammate, but he's not very interesting when it comes to roster makeup right now. In the end, I'd simply feel more depressed about our roster protecting Stecher than I do Lindstrom

Truthfully, there isn't much that separates a "number 4" defensemen from a "number 6 defensemen" other than the chemistry that the "number 4 defensemen" has with your number 3 defensemen. Defensive pairs are driven far more by chemistry than perceived skill. I could imagine a situation wherein with further development, experience, maturity, and right partner, Lindstrom is able to log second pair minutes. I probably wouldn't bet my house on it, but it is possible.

 

[Konnan511]

You know our team is bad when we are debating which guy that sits out a bunch we would prefer to stay on the team.

 

[jaster]

Truthfully, there isn't much that separates a "number 4" defensemen from a "number 6 defensemen" other than the chemistry that the "number 4 defensemen" has with your number 3 defensemen. Defensive pairs are driven far more by chemistry than perceived skill. I could imagine a situation wherein with further development, experience, maturity, and right partner, Lindstrom is able to log second pair minutes. I probably wouldn't bet my house on it, but it is possible.

Hell, I wouldn't bet my house on it either, and I'm the Lindstrom advocate in this exchange.

I should have cited more succinctly what I was referring to, but The Athletic did a deep dive analysis a couple years ago, assigning values based on advanced metrics to every roster player on the previous ten or twelve Cup winners. There were several commonalities across the teams, but one of the more common ones was how many of them had 5 guys who, by the numbers, were clear-cut top-4 defensemen, compared to their peers, and so naturally one was always playing on the 3rd pair. So that's one of the things I'm looking for as this roster gets more competitive; 5 legit top-4 defensemen.

Now, interestingly, to your point about chemistry, The Athletic did break down who was playing where, and on what pairs. It wasn't "best two guys on the top pair, next best two on the 2nd pair, and worst two on the 3rd." The average across the Cup-winning rosters, and ranked by the advanced metrics used, was this:

Top-pair: #1 and #5
2nd pair: #2 and #3/4
3rd pair: #3/4 and #6

....where, again, "#5" was actually a legit top-4 defenseman relative to his peers in the league. Kinda surprising, and of course the valuations aren't the end all, be all. But you can see where the chemistry part likely comes in.

 

[jaster]

Specifically, the valuations used were basically WAR (wins above replacement), and the WAR numbers by pairing were....

2.5 - 0.9
1.6 - 1.1
1.1 - 0.4

....where:

2.5 = elite
1.6 = #1 Dman
1.1 = #2 Dman
0.9 = 2nd-pairing
0.4 = 3rd-pairing

 

[ShelbyZ]

If I had to guess, I would say what probably gave Lindstrom the edge was him ending the season as the Wings best RD on the PK.

After that 7-3 win against Dallas where the Wings PK was kind of a mess, they cut back Hronek's minutes on the right on the PK and made Lindstrom their most used guy on the right side shorthanded. Lindstrom ended up being on the ice at RD for something around 52% of the Wings time shorthanded for the rest of the year (the next 5 games, since the Wings didn't take any penalties in their last game) and the team successfully killed all 16 of their PK's in that stretch.

By contrast, the Red Wings didn't really use Stecher on the PK with any sort of regularity, opting instead to use lefties on their off side (Nemeth, Merrill, DeKeyser, etc.) or Biega or Lindstrom when they were in the line up.

If the Wings hypothetically have Seider penciled in at RD to go along with Hronek, Lindstrom might be a better option as the 3rd RD since he can shoulder some defensive assignments and PK while they take a patient approach with easing Seider into those spots.

 

[Gniwder]

You know our team is bad when we are debating which guy that sits out a bunch we would prefer to stay on the team.

Yup, we're arguing about healthy scratches. Player's not worth ice time on the 5th worst team in the league, lol.

But then again, there are those in this fan base that will argue for a player that cleared waivers twice, so....

 

[Retire91]

Really happy to see some names not protected the country club era is definatly over and glad to put it behind us.

As for the Datsyuk trade I think many of you know my thoughts. There was absolutely no reason for that trade. There was no reason to get rid of the cap space, Lidstrom had retired and now Daytsuk it was time to throw in the towel and take BPA. I would take Chychrun over any of the players in the scenarios that followed. Everyone brings up Hronek but the fact remains the wings could have taken Hronek with their own pick. We didn't need the trade to land Hronek. If the wings had their eyes on Hronek and throught they could gamble on taking Smith first then what we would be without is Smith. Chychrun would have been better for this team over both Hronek and Smith anyway. I know the other sides of the argument, we wouldn't have taken Hronek. Can't be proven. What can be proven is Chychrun would have been better for this team. I am just glad to see some life in the right side of this argument.

 

[Gniwder]

Really happy to see some names not protected the country club era is definatly over and glad to put it behind us.

As for the Datsyuk trade I think many of you know my thoughts. There was absolutely no reason for that trade. There was no reason to get rid of the cap space, Lidstrom had retired and now Daytsuk it was time to throw in the towel and take BPA. I would take Chychrun over any of the players in the scenarios that followed. Everyone brings up Hronek but the fact remains the wings could have taken Hronek with their own pick. We didn't need the trade to land Hronek. If the wings had their eyes on Hronek and throught they could gamble on taking Smith first then what we would be without is Smith. Chychrun would have been better for this team over both Hronek and Smith anyway. I know the other sides of the argument, we wouldn't have taken Hronek. Can't be proven. What can be proven is Chychrun would have been better for this team. I am just glad to see some life in the right side of this argument.

... and don't forget Necas instead of Raz, Aho over Svech, and Dobson over Zadina, lol.

People are giving up on the Chychrun argument because they finally realize that Cholo is a bust, that's all. I think you and I were probably the only ones that didn't like Cholo's game from the start. Everyone else thought he was a legit NHLer until his game got totally exposed.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

... and don't forget Necas instead of Raz, Aho over Svech, and Dobson over Zadina, lol.

People are giving up on the Chychrun argument because they finally realize that Cholo is a bust, that's all. I think you and I were probably the only ones that didn't like Cholo's game from the start. Everyone else thought he was a legit NHLer until his game got totally exposed.

Nah...I never liked Cholowski from the minute we picked him. I liked him even less after he bombed out of the NCAA.

 

[Gniwder]

Nah...I never liked Cholowski from the minute we picked him. I liked him even less after he bombed out of the NCAA.

OK, I'll add you to the Cholo haters list, lol.

Holland's penchant for soft PMD never worked out, and he never learned his lesson. I have some faith in Rezmierski though.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

OK, I'll add you to the Cholo haters list, lol.

Holland's penchant for soft PMD never worked out, and he never learned his lesson. I have some faith in Rezmierski though.

I'm not just anti-Cholo, I'm actually President & founder of the No-Cholo Club. We have a cookout on saturdays, a website & t-shirts so far. Non-Action Cholo Figures Patent Pending.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

OK, I'll add you to the Cholo haters list, lol.

Holland's penchant for soft PMD never worked out, and he never learned his lesson. I have some faith in Rezmierski though.

Soft-brained puck moving defensemen.

You can be "soft" as long as you're evasive and intelligent and willing to take a hit to make a play when absolutely necessary. Johansson looks like that kind of guy.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Soft-brained puck moving defensemen.

You can be "soft" as long as you're evasive and intelligent and willing to take a hit to make a play when absolutely necessary. Johansson looks like that kind of guy.

my face when Cholo takes the ice.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

You guys/gals are actually kind of hopeful that someone in Seattle actually does see some upside in Cholowski. You know because if they don't, he is still going to be in our organization if they pick one of the other options and your hater's club is stuck with their primary source of ire on the team for a little while longer.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

You guys/gals are actually kind of hopeful that someone in Seattle actually does see some upside in Cholowski. You know because if they don't, he is still going to be in our organization if they pick one of the other options and your hater's club is stuck with their primary source of ire on the team for a little while longer.

Probably. But I don't expect Cholowski to be up in Detroit for very long. I give it 15-20 games and then his mistakes get him demoted to Grand Rapids where he'll likely be no better than their 4th best defenseman on a good day. Again.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

my face when Cholo takes the ice.

View attachment 454148

Me when Cholowski dresses for a wings game.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Probably. But I don't expect Cholowski to be up in Detroit for very long. I give it 15-20 games and then his mistakes get him demoted to Grand Rapids where he'll likely be no better than their 4th best defenseman on a good day. Again.

I feel like Cholowski's NHL frame, speed and 1st round pedigree will afford him at least a couple of "Get out of the AHL free" cards if he doesn't make it with the Wings. I would hope Yzerman could maybe work that into another JDLR for Fabbri type trade instead of possibly losing him on waivers.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I feel like Cholowski's NHL frame, speed and 1st round pedigree will afford him at least a couple of "Get out of the AHL free" cards if he doesn't make it with the Wings. I would hope Yzerman could maybe work that into another JDLR for Fabbri type trade instead of possibly losing him on waivers.

Cholo for Ghost, helps both teams.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I feel like Cholowski's NHL frame, speed and 1st round pedigree will afford him at least a couple of "Get out of the AHL free" cards if he doesn't make it with the Wings. I would hope Yzerman could maybe work that into another JDLR for Fabbri type trade instead of possibly losing him on waivers.

Were it not for Holland and Wright Cholowski wouldn't have even been a 1st round pick. Plus he already used a few of his "get out of the AHL free" cards the last 3 years. I don't think that's going to continue much more.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Were it not for Holland and Wright Cholowski wouldn't have even been a 1st round pick. Plus he already used a few of his "get out of the AHL free" cards the last 3 years. I don't think that's going to continue much more.

And this is why I continue to say that getting rid of Holland and Wright and replacing with Stevie and Verbeek was a better feeling than winning the draft lottery.

 

[William Rusco]

Losing Cholowski to me is addition by subtraction.
A .25 ppg Offensive D who can't play D. I have no use for him.