Post-Game Talk: Wings Lose to Chicago

[steafo]

I tend to agree with whoever said they kind of hope the Wings miss the playoffs to help the re-tool. I don't want them to tank hard or anything, and it's not like there is a big difference generally between picking 16 and 10 or anything. I just think/hope it would light a fire under management to make less faithful moves. For too long I feel the ORGANIZATION has been complacent on just making the playoffs. What's the point if you do not have a legitimate shot.

The management is loyal to a fault. Why hand out these 7 year contracts like it's the gold standard. Sure you need to build around the players that can keep us competitive or could (Datsyuk, Z, Kronwall (ugh he's been bad)). But why is E signed into 2020 with some sort of NTC/NMC...Franzen...Howard for big money when you knew you had a prospect coming...etc etc etc. We held on to Kindl and Smith FOREVER when I feel like a team with a roster as competitive as the Wings tend to think they have would have shipped them out long ago for some picks. The blueprint is there, follow the BlackHawks lead and build around your core but only stay loyal to your core.

Unless Datsyuk and Z want to be traded they will retire here. I think at this point Larkin is untouchable for obvious reasons but EVERY other player should be disposable and should also know they are; make them work to stay on the roster. No one is taking less money to stay here or come here anymore, that urban legend died with the early 2000 teams. The team is icing an inferior product right now but if they were still a top 4-6 team I would still want them to follow that philosophy. Look at the roster turnover Chicago has had in their run. They ARE a dynasty right now in the salary cap era more so than we were outside of it.

 

[golffuul]

This team is just so frustrating to watch at times, Can't figure them out all this talent and times they look good and times just plain awful.

Our "talent" on the back-end is fairly appalling. Outside of DeKeyser and Green, who are at best a 2nd pairing of defencemen with their play this year, I can't even think of a pairing of defencemen who I would call "steady".

I feel like we are stuck in this neutral wasteland of a place where we are just good enough to get into the playoffs every year and never any better.

Last night's game was over after the 5-on-3 nonsense where apparently it's now okay to pick and interfere (although DeKeyser just let himself get picked) to create a down-low 3-on-0 play on the goaltender. The team gave up after that, aside from Glendening actually screening the goaltender rather than Jurco just moving around allowing the goalie to see with no real problem.

Also, Larkin is officially gassed. Having to carry a team for 60 games seems to have finally caught up to his body. He started looking this way about 5-10 games ago, but you can totally see it now.

 

[Run the Jewels]

"all this talent" lol

nobody on our team will hit 60 pts this year

cant be that talented

Exactly, I don't see how anyone views this team as being talented. The skill level is at its lowest point since the dead wings era.

 

[Frk It]

"all this talent" lol

nobody on our team will hit 60 pts this year

cant be that talented

That's pretty depressing.

Our leading pt scorer is only on pace for 54 pts, and it's Zetterberg.

By comparison, in 13-14 he put up 48 pts in just 45 games.

 

[LarKing]

When your power play is one of the worst in the league your top point producer's totals are going to be pretty low.

 

[Hammettf2b]

When your power play is one of the worst in the league your top point producer's totals are going to be pretty low.

It has looked better ever since they put Nyquist in his original position from last year. Don't know why they moved Goose out of that spot to be gin with. He got some really good looks. Only a matter of time before it starts clicking again imho.

 

[Flowah]

Exactly, I don't see how anyone views this team as being talented. The skill level is at its lowest point since the dead wings era.

I see a ton of skill. I don't see a lot of execution. I think guys like Larkin, Nyquist, Tatar are at least as skilled as Hudler and Filppula. They just don't have prime Datsyuk and Zetterberg to lean on or the ageless perfect human being in Lidstrom to cover up for them 25+ minutes a night.

 

[SirloinUB]

Anyone else feel like Petr might've hit a wall lately?
3 of his last 6 games he's allowed 5 goals. Save pct. under .900 in 4 of those last 6.

He just doesn't seem as sharp to me.

This forum would be all over Howard for a stretch like that. I love the double standard towards our two goalies.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

This forum would be all over Howard for a stretch like that. I love the double standard towards our two goalies.

To be fair, Mrazek's performance this season before his slump was arguably better than any in Howard's career. Plus he is young and not under a long contract.

Mrazek may deserve more flack, but he helped carry our team this season. He has earned some slack.

 

[Pavels Dog]

When your power play is one of the worst in the league your top point producer's totals are going to be pretty low.

Yeah the PP hurts the numbers of all our offensive guys.

Anyone else feel like Petr might've hit a wall lately?
3 of his last 6 games he's allowed 5 goals. Save pct. under .900 in 4 of those last 6.

He just doesn't seem as sharp to me.

He's never had a huge workload in his pro-career. Hopefully he bounces back but I think it's pretty expected that he's started to struggle now that he's coming up towards the most GP he's had in his career.

 

[TCNorthstars]

It has looked better ever since they put Nyquist in his original position from last year. Don't know why they moved Goose out of that spot to be gin with. He got some really good looks. Only a matter of time before it starts clicking again imho.

Aren't they like 1 for their last 20 or so PP's?

 

[Hammettf2b]

Aren't they like 1 for their last 20 or so PP's?

I didn't say the end result was better haha. But with Goose back at that position again, the looks have been better.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Mrazek and Larkin continue to struggle and this team has no hope. Gotta change up the lines, put Larks back with Z and AA with Dats.

The defense is so useless though it's heartbreaking. Probably up there for the least talented defense in the league. Every game is boring as **** because our dmen are incapable of doing anything remotely positive besides defend, which is a super basic talent in today's NHL.

 

[Frk It]

This forum would be all over Howard for a stretch like that. I love the double standard towards our two goalies.

Welcome to my goalie trust issues.

Also why I can't get psyched about a goalie being a part of our core, like a lot do on here.

 

[SirloinUB]

Welcome to my goalie trust issues.

Also why I can't get psyched about a goalie being a part of our core, like a lot do on here.

No Doubt. I love me some Mrazek but goalies are so damn unpredictable...

Take Rinne for example. It wasn't too long ago that this guy seemingly cemented himself as one of the premier goalies in the league and signed a $7 + million dollar contract. Meanwhile, he has posted a yearly sv% over .910 just once in the last 4 years.

 

[PetrPumpknEatr]

I say this as a big Petr fan but I think they should go back to splitting time between Petr and Jimmy.

It seems that Jimmy has overcome whatever was happening with him and it looks like Mrazek is starting to falter a little. Fortunately during past 6 games Mrazek has only lost 2 of them. But he's still very young and doesn't have that much experience.

I think the problem with him now is just the grind of it all. He might be a little banged up. This is around the time many people start feeling the wear and tear of the season. I think the whole Vezina talk should be put aside and focus on what's best for Mrazek's development and the team as a whole. You can destroy a goalie by working him too hard too early.

 

[Sentinel]

What the heck is K, K, T?

How about D, Z, T? I assume D and Z is Datsyuk and Zetterberg but what's the T?

EDIT: Nvm, just read the previous posts and see that KKT is Kane, Keith, and Toews. Still don't know what the T is in the 2nd one though....

Sorry, the last T was meant to be K, Kronwall.

 

[HIFE]

It's pretty easy to have a revolving door of role players when you have such a good core, all young or in their prime. We did the same in the past. Think of all the d-men that passed through our roster next to Lidstrom/Kronwall, all the forwards that we switched out in supporting roles next to Yzerman/Fedorov and Dats/Z.

Brad Richards came in and played a good role last year for Chicago. How much of that was simply due to playing with Kane? 80% probably. How good is Panarin if he's not with Kane? Good probably, but nowhere near the same level. Kane feeds him tap in goal after tap in goal. Any scrub can play next to Toews-Hossa and look good, and their top 3D is set so the bottom 4D can be almost anyone with a pulse.

People overrated Chicago's handling of their roster as if they have some magic eye for talent. They don't. Just like we weren't doing something genius by having Brett Lebda on defense when we won the cup. It's just the kind of stuff you get away with when you have a strong core of players to build around.

Our supporting cast is good. Actually it's more than good enough. There are no true scrubs in our lineup on any given night.
Our team wouldn't turn into a legit contender if we added a Krug or Shaw or Roszival.

Good arguments. I'll concede that their core is better, especially younger. Keith was deservedly the playoff MVP Kronwall was never close to that. But I still think you're underestimating the way they get production from all over the place.

Saad was a complete monster last PO's. Teravainen was key, also as you mentioned their structure pulled 14 points from Richards. Remember Vermette though? 3 GWG was massive. Oduya was another solid enough member who ate up big blocks of minutes. I'm not saying we need a Kruger or Desjardins as 4th liners but somehow Chicago gets fantastic support from unlikely players. Anisimov has been a bust since he left NY, all of a sudden he's a PPG player. It's just luck or being on a team with Kane and Toews? I don't think so.

We do have players who are performing like scrubs. Jurco and Sheahan right now can't compare to what their supporting cast provides. Abdelkader can't hold a flame to Saad let alone what Shaw contributes. We have a guy Glendening who has literally 0% chance to score a goal. Richards has been our 2nd line center? Quincey is Rozsival yet sadly for us is currently our #2 D. On and on the several bad contracts Holland has mindlessly doled out is killing the Wings.

No denying Chicago has done a superb job at drafting and recognizing talent, then optimizing players within a strict role. Most of all they're not committing to said guys but preparing with vision for the next wave of acquisitions to fill those roles.

 

[HIFE]

Welcome to my goalie trust issues.

Also why I can't get psyched about a goalie being a part of our core, like a lot do on here.

A few games where Mrazek isn't the 1st star shouldn't lead us to forget what an elite goalie he is. Last night some of the replays of those saves...just wow.

I will get tarred and feathered for saying this but IMO I don't put Larkin in the same category as Mrazek. Mrazek is the core moving to the future. I love Larkin but it's not guaranteed he's the #1C who will carry Detroit to a Cup.

 

[Pavels Dog]

We do have players who are performing like scrubs. Jurco and Sheahan right now can't compare to what their supporting cast provides. Abdelkader can't hold a flame to Saad let alone what Shaw contributes. We have a guy Glendening who has literally 0% chance to score a goal. Richards has been our 2nd line center? Quincey is Rozsival yet sadly for us is currently our #2 D. On and on the several bad contracts Holland has mindlessly doled out is killing the Wings.

Nah, you're overrating those guys because they are on a great team. Shaw isn't better than Abdelkader and Glendening has scored 4 goals this year and had 12 last year (3 less than Shaw). It's not the role players that is the issue or the contracts they have. It's the fact that we don't have an elite top-pairing like Keith/Seabrook, and that Dats/Z are no longer able to carry their own seperate lines like they were able to in the past (and like Toews/Kane can).

 

[Heaton]

Mrazek may deserve more flack, but he helped carry our team this season. He has earned some slack.

Yeah, people need to get off his back, it's not like he wasn't under attack, he has the type of personality that doesn't allow him to crack. I just think that the team was out whack and we just have to hope that the team comes back (to life).

 

[TheOtherOne]

Saad was a complete monster last PO's. Teravainen was key, also as you mentioned their structure pulled 14 points from Richards. Remember Vermette though? 3 GWG was massive. Oduya was another solid enough member who ate up big blocks of minutes. I'm not saying we need a Kruger or Desjardins as 4th liners but somehow Chicago gets fantastic support from unlikely players. Anisimov has been a bust since he left NY, all of a sudden he's a PPG player. It's just luck or being on a team with Kane and Toews? I don't think so.

I think that's the kind of stuff you can only "predict" with hindsight. We could just as easily see unlikely heroes in a playoff series. Will Glendening score 3 GWGs? Probably not, but it could happen. We know Nyquist and Tatar are capable of going on insane hot streaks. Abby could easily go on a tear that revitalizes the whole team. All it takes is a good night, maybe a guy had some cocaine in his Wheaties, maybe he's just feeling it, maybe our third line is just clicking and unstoppable for a series. If that happens, you look at it in hindsight and say "their team was so well built that they were getting scoring from everyone."

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Good arguments. I'll concede that their core is better, especially younger. Keith was deservedly the playoff MVP Kronwall was never close to that. But I still think you're underestimating the way they get production from all over the place.
their structure pulled 14 points from Richards. Remember Vermette though? 3 GWG was massive. Oduya was another solid enough member who ate up big blocks of minutes. I'm not saying we need a Kruger or Desjardins as 4th liners but somehow Chicago gets fantastic support from unlikely players. Anisimov has been a bust since he left NY, all of a sudden he's a PPG player. It's just luck or being on a team with Kane and Toews? I don't think so.

Saad was a complete monster last PO's. Teravainen was key, also as you mentioned
We do have players who are performing like scrubs. Jurco and Sheahan right now can't compare to what their supporting cast provides. Abdelkader can't hold a flame to Saad let alone what Shaw contributes. We have a guy Glendening who has literally 0% chance to score a goal. Richards has been our 2nd line center? Quincey is Rozsival yet sadly for us is currently our #2 D. On and on the several bad contracts Holland has mindlessly doled out is killing the Wings.

No denying Chicago has done a superb job at drafting and recognizing talent, then optimizing players within a strict role. Most of all they're not committing to said guys but preparing with vision for the next wave of acquisitions to fill those roles.

The fundamental difference between Detroit and Chicago is the difference between Keith and Kronwall, Toews and Z, Kane and Pav. The difference in that first pair is very, very large. Your supporting cast is important in the playoffs, but it isn't what gets you to the playoffs.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I tend to agree with whoever said they kind of hope the Wings miss the playoffs to help the re-tool. I don't want them to tank hard or anything, and it's not like there is a big difference generally between picking 16 and 10 or anything. I just think/hope it would light a fire under management to make less faithful moves. For too long I feel the ORGANIZATION has been complacent on just making the playoffs. What's the point if you do not have a legitimate shot.

The management is loyal to a fault. Why hand out these 7 year contracts like it's the gold standard. Sure you need to build around the players that can keep us competitive or could (Datsyuk, Z, Kronwall (ugh he's been bad)). But why is E signed into 2020 with some sort of NTC/NMC...Franzen...Howard for big money when you knew you had a prospect coming...etc etc etc. We held on to Kindl and Smith FOREVER when I feel like a team with a roster as competitive as the Wings tend to think they have would have shipped them out long ago for some picks. The blueprint is there, follow the BlackHawks lead and build around your core but only stay loyal to your core.

Unless Datsyuk and Z want to be traded they will retire here. I think at this point Larkin is untouchable for obvious reasons but EVERY other player should be disposable and should also know they are; make them work to stay on the roster. No one is taking less money to stay here or come here anymore, that urban legend died with the early 2000 teams. The team is icing an inferior product right now but if they were still a top 4-6 team I would still want them to follow that philosophy. Look at the roster turnover Chicago has had in their run. They ARE a dynasty right now in the salary cap era more so than we were outside of it.

What core are you building around exactly?

 

[Reddwit]

This forum would be all over Howard for a stretch like that. I love the double standard towards our two goalies.

Howard's stretches like that tend to follow a stretch of above-average or middle-of-the-league goaltending, not a few months of Vezina/Hart-worthy performances.

Mrazek has been great or elite for about 90% of his season prior to the past few weeks. That's better than anything Howard has done and Pete has done it with a crap team in front of him.