News Article: Wings are Luszczyszyn's most improved team

[MBH]

Our top line had two 30 goal scorers and a 20 goal scoring rookie. Not sure how much "better" you think we need to have to compete. What we needed this offseason was depth. Copp fills our 2nd C position perfectly and Perron/Kubalik have both scored 30 goals in their career. Plus having Vrana's offense. And if we have any bit of a PP, we should see our offensive numbers go up significantly.

You can't compare our team to Colorado or Tampa. They are 3-5 years further along than we are.

Slow and steady wins the race (and the Cups)

Well, let's take Winnipeg, who failed to make the playoffs despite having:
* one of the best goalies in the league in Connor Hellebucyk
* 47 goal man Kyle Connor
* 3 more players with 28 or more goals (Schiefele, Duboius and Ehlers
* The very same Andrew Copp we have now

Vancouver failed to make the playoffs despite:
* 3 30 goal scorers and two more with 19 or more.

 

[MBH]

What am I missing here?

YOU said Detroit had a vanilla free agency.

YOU attached UFA rankings based on a list.

Then it was determined that the list of rankings included several guys that weren't even possible for Detroit to sign.

If you're not impressed with the guys they signed, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion. But at least be genuine with how you bag on them.

I mean, sure, Perron and Copp are downright lousy...if I'm comparing them to waiving a magic wand and bringing in Pastrnak and McDavid.

The point is there are different levels of UFA pickups.

There was the Filppula/Nemeth level - basic guys who barely fill a roster spot with some veteran intangibles.

And now we've moved up to solid to good guys.

They should move us up a bit.
But I don't think this team hits the playoffs unless a lot of things go very right.

 

[SoupNazi]

What am I missing here?

The agenda he's pushing.

 

[Bench]

Not getting enough attention is that if Vrana can actually stay on the ice this year, that's going to be good for at least 30 goals. I consider him another huge addition to the top 6 and PP.

Bert, Perron, Raymond, and Vrana is a dangerous collection of wingers that we haven't seen matched by Detroit in many, many years.

My only concern that keeps this group from producing a 40 goal scorer is health.

 

[StargateSG1]

The agenda he's pushing.

Same can be certainly said about you and yours....

 

[jkutswings]

Same can be certainly said about you and yours....

Those devious scamps, being fans of a team...

...on a message board dedicated to said team.

 

[SoupNazi]

Same can be certainly said about you and yours....

The agenda that we shouldn't tank indefinitely? Sure. How awful.

 

[ricky0034]

30 goals isn't what it used to be, 39 players had more goals than anyone on the Wings did last year

just a weird thing to fixate on, 40 goals is the new 30 pretty much

 

[StargateSG1]

The agenda that we shouldn't tank indefinitely? Sure. How awful.

Nah, none of you ever talk about the Cup, just "playoffs", in the best schmooze of Kenny Holland's legacy.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Nah, none of you ever talk about the Cup, just "playoffs", in the best schmooze of Kenny Holland's legacy.

You put together the list of all the Stanley Cup winners that didn’t make the playoffs first, then we talk

 

[ricky0034]

Nah, none of you ever talk about the Cup, just "playoffs", in the best schmooze of Kenny Holland's legacy.

it's that "just get in and anything can happen" stuff we all used to laugh at Holland for being used unironically

 

[StargateSG1]

You put together the list of all the Stanley Cup winners that didn’t make the playoffs first, then we talk

So, 25% chance of winning a top pick is bad, but 0.000000001% that LA as 8th seed did ONCE in history is good?
You are dismissed...

 

[Bench]

it's that "just get in and anything can happen" stuff we all used to laugh at Holland for being used unironically

OK but that removes literally all context. Those Holland teams were propped up by aging stars in their mid 30s on the decline and deadline acquisitions of more old vets.

This current team is being propped up by the likes of Seider, Raymond, Larkin, and Bert. Two very young guys and two guys aged 26 and 27. Seider in particular is a phenom and the best defender to suit up for us since Lidstrom.

Edvinsson and Kasper are extremely exciting guys on the way, but I won't even factor them in yet. The four listed above, with support, are enough to at least have optimism going into a playoff round.

Expectations are a little different for guys hitting their prime versus those trying to hold off father time.

 

[Hen Kolland]

So, 25% chance of winning a top pick is bad, but 0.000000001% that LA as 8th seed did ONCE in history is good?
You are dismissed...

It’s not a 25% chance. The team is considered by many to have been most improved or near the top. Many teams have not improved, some have gotten clearly worse.

The team was more likely to finish outside the bottom 10 than they were to have anything close to a 25% chance to win a top pick. Even without a clear intention to push for the playoffs.

I mean by your logic, you should always try to be in last place because you’re more likely to win a top pick than you’ll ever be to put everything together and win a title. And if that’s where we stand, then may I suggest finding a new hobby, because competitive sports aren’t made for you.

 

[Bench]

And if that’s where we stand, then may I suggest finding a new hobby, because competitive sports aren’t made for you.

Please note that his arguments are well received and considered influential within the Talladega school of philosophy.

 

[MBH]

Yeah, Wings signed UFAs ranked 20 (Perron), 26 (Copp), 32(Chariot), 40(Kubalik) and Maata (Not in Top 50)
As "vanilla" as it gets....

I agree.
But it's a different level of UFAs than we got in past years.

 

[jkutswings]

At the end of the Dead Things Era, when Detroit first returned to the playoffs...

Do you suppose that fans campaigned against returning to the postseason, arguing that the roster needed another 1-2 high picks before they were "ready"?

And more importantly, do you suppose that management dragged their feet until they were certain the roster had enough talent to bypass the middle of the spectrum entirely and skyrocket straight to elite status?

You're worrying about something that has never been part of any actual championship caliber team building.

 

[MBH]

The agenda he's pushing.

Agenda.
Pfft.
Repeat the SoupNazi-approved fantasy - or you have an agenda.
This board never changes.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Agenda.
Pfft.
Repeat the SoupNazi-approved fantasy - or you have an agenda.
This board never changes.

That’s not true, your username has changed plenty of times

 

[MBH]

At the end of the Dead Things Era, when Detroit first returned to the playoffs...

Do you suppose that fans campaigned against returning to the postseason, arguing that the roster needed another 1-2 high picks before they were "ready"?

And more importantly, do you suppose that management dragged their feet until they were certain the roster had enough talent to bypass the middle of the spectrum entirely and skyrocket straight to elite status?

You're worrying about something that has never been part of any actual championship caliber team building.

No.
But you also have to remember the origins of this board.
This is HFboards - a board built around talking hockey prospects and drafts.
That culture is still strong on these boards.

Also - back then - drafts were an even bigger crapshoot than they are today.

Lastly, we never "skyrocketed" to elite status.
We got better - played at a middling level (usually in a weak division) and didn't skyrocket anywhere until the 89 draft guys showed their talent at the NHL level.

I think there's a huge middle ground position here that lots of people are missing.

Of course we're not looking at finishing last and aiming at lottery picks.
But I don't think we're really aiming at making the playoffs either.

Yzerman wants this team to be better - to give younger guys NHLers to play with. Ultimately, it's almost surely the youngsters who are going to drive this team back to the upper echelons of the NHL - and right now several of those guys aren't even slated for the NHL roster this year.

 

[Gniwder]

At the end of the Dead Things Era, when Detroit first returned to the playoffs...

Do you suppose that fans campaigned against returning to the postseason, arguing that the roster needed another 1-2 high picks before they were "ready"?

And more importantly, do you suppose that management dragged their feet until they were certain the roster had enough talent to bypass the middle of the spectrum entirely and skyrocket straight to elite status?

You're worrying about something that has never been part of any actual championship caliber team building.

The only reason why they made the playoffs back then was because there were fewer teams and a team could actually get into the playoffs with a losing record, which is what they did.....

Also, salary cap changes everything, remember the Wings won the Cup multiple times while trading away their first round pick over the years. You won't see any team trade away their first 4 consecutive years anymore.

Not saying I want the team to tank some more, but the comparison isn;t really valid.

 

[Bench]

Of course we're not looking at finishing last and aiming at lottery picks.
But I don't think we're really aiming at making the playoffs either.

There's literally only a handful of outliers here that expect this team to make the playoffs. And Steve Yzerman isn't one of those guys, either, by everything he's said.

But it's not wild to have expectations that if things break right with injuries, this will be a team that could sneak in.

You're tilting at windmills fighting against this narrative you've cooked up about people expecting this team to be anything but on the bubble. And we have the data. Just look at the votes cast in this thread.

Poll: How many points will the Red Wings accrue this season?

Let's see where everyone thinks we will finish the season.

forums.hfboards.com

I think there's a huge middle ground position here that lots of people are missing.

As far as I can tell, only 2 people voted unironically that this team is anything more than a fringe, bubble roster. There's no middle ground people are missing. You're just looking for something to tilt your lance at even when everyone agrees with you.

Welcome to the majority. There's no hot take for your to spit this time. You're going to love conformity, I promise.

 

[Frk It]

We signed Andrew Copp, David Perron and Ben Chiarot.
You can get those level guys every f***ing year.
So stop with the bullshit.
Need a center:
Horvat. Monahan. OReilly. Toews. JT Miller.

Need a defense?
Orlov. Sanheim. Severson. Gostisbehere. Dumoulin. Weegar. Graves. yada yada yada.

I think Yzerman had a good offseason. But I don't think the goal here is the playoffs, and I definitely don't think this team is a playoff team.

The goal here is stabilization.
The wheels fell off again last year.
Our goals against was f***ing worse last year than it was 2 years ago - when we were a joke team.

Our GAA was 4.21 in the second half.

It was time to take serious steps to stabilize the team so it looks like an NHL team.
That's what Copp and Chiarot and Perron and Maatta are.

This isn't "Hey Hey Hockeytown. We're back in the playoffs."

So expect better hockey.
Expect to be in the hunt for a Wildcard on Jan. 1.

But we're probably on the outside looking in when all is said and done.
View attachment 575151

Didn’t you blast us a year or two ago for not doing more in the off-season.

I thought what we did this off-season was pretty much exactly what you were asking for, no?

Or do you think we should have done more or less than what we did?

 

[SoupNazi]

There's literally only a handful of outliers here that expect this team to make the playoffs. And Steve Yzerman isn't one of those guys, either, by everything he's said.

But it's not wild to have expectations that if things break right with injuries, this will be a team that could sneak in.

You're tilting at windmills fighting against this narrative you've cooked up about people expecting this team to be anything but on the bubble. And we have the data. Just look at the votes cast in this thread.

Poll: How many points will the Red Wings accrue this season?

Let's see where everyone thinks we will finish the season.

forums.hfboards.com

As far as I can tell, only 2 people voted unironically that this team is anything more than a fringe, bubble roster. There's no middle ground people are missing. You're just looking for something to tilt your lance at even when everyone agrees with you.

Welcome to the majority. There's no hot take for your to spit this time. You're going to love conformity, I promise.

When you can't find a reason to be contrarian, forget your previous position and pivot.

 

[jkutswings]

The only reason why they made the playoffs back then was because there were fewer teams and a team could actually get into the playoffs with a losing record, which is what they did.....

Also, salary cap changes everything, remember the Wings won the Cup multiple times while trading away their first round pick over the years. You won't see any team trade away their first 4 consecutive years anymore.

Not saying I want the team to tank some more, but the comparison isn't really valid.

You have a point there. And I'd counter that the draft lottery (and its subsequent rule changes) have once again turned things on their head. Now you can't submarine a season and guarantee yourself a Crosby or a Kane anymore, and Detroit already has enough young talent that they'd have to trade half of it away just to put themselves on (horrendously) equal footing with the Chicagos and Arizonas of the world to be in the mix, let alone come away with Bedard or Michkov.

You're completely right that the comparison I made before isn't apples to apples.
But those advocating further tanking are doing the same thing, acting like it's 2005 (not to mention ignoring any negative effects the approach would have on the remainder of the existing roster).