News Article: Wings are Luszczyszyn's most improved team

[Macoun]

Not.

Franzen contract ended already at 2019-20 season.
Zetterberg ended after 2020-21.

You must haven been thinking about possible buyouts, which could extend those caphits?

Nielsen buyout caphit will drop out after 2022-23 season and Abdelkader 2026.

Yeah our dead cap situation looks really good going into next year since Abdelkaders goes down by about 1.4 million and Nielsens is completely gone from what I remember. No more LTIR money on the books

 

[dalem177]

This was the year, if any, to go bare bones and see what transpires.
Larkin gets unhappy, oh well, trade him, it's a business most of all.
Remember, Colorado traded O'Reilly and Duchene to "re-energize" the rebuild.
No one is saying you should tank forever, just pick your battles and best years to do so.
Some people said if any teams can afford a flat out tank job, it's original 6... Re: Chicago

I would bet a pizza that there are more fans like me, who want to see Larkin get his chance to lead a team to "something", than fans like you who are fine with dumping him. I am more of a fan of people than numbers.

 

[Henkka]

I would bet a pizza that there are more fans like me, who want to see Larkin get his chance to lead a team to "something". I am more of a fan of people than numbers.

Yeah. And Yzerman is a fan of this too.

 

[HisNoodliness]

This team is miles below the cap floor

Give one of the UFAs too much AAV on a one year deal or take a cap dump for a pick. Problem solved

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

It's something that I'm very torn on. Honestly because the top of this draft looks so very strong, I wish that we could tank this year. However, I think that hockey players can only be expected to lose for so long and Larkin's clock is running out. With the emergence of the Seider and Raymond, I just don't think we can justify tanking again to the locker room. So I'm cool with the direction the team took and I think it was probably our only good option. If injuries/cold streaks topple this house of cards, that'd have a hell of a silver lining.

However if you told me that we had an incredible sports psychologist onboard that could keep the players happy, we could restart the off-season and I was GM, I'd strongly consider something along the lines of:

1. Trade Bert with retention for a really good prospect and/or a 2023 1st. Maybe LA would part with Byfield. Let's not get sidetracked arguing trade values though. Whatever reality gives you when you try something like Bert for Byfield. If we work out a sign and trade to get more value, even better.

2. Don't sign Perron, Copp or Chiarot. Don't trade for Husso. Instead, have a roster spot gift-wrapped for Berggren, Veleno and Edvinsson while signing players from the bargain bin to fill out the roster. The rest of our moves are cool.

Ultimately we roll out something like:
Vrana- Larkin- Raymond
Kubalik- Suter- Zadina
Veleno- Ras- Berggren
Erne- Sundquist- Smith
Sign a couple league minimums as subs for when the kids struggle. Maybe someone wins a spot on the fourth line. It's also a big opportunity for Veleno, Berggren, Ras and Zadina to grab ice time if they can. Hopefully one of them can establish themselves as a difference maker.

Matta- Seider
Walman- Hronek
Edvinsson- Lindstrom (Pysyk when he's back)
Oesterle as sub 1. Sign another league min to sub 2. The defense is also pretty inexperienced, but Ed is really the only guy I worry about getting hung out to dry. Give him a shift with Seider every once in a while.

Ned
Generic backup UFA signing

That's a roster that's very likely to finish bottom 5. Consider moving Hronek and/or Vrana at the deadline to get even worse and pick up more futures, but make sure that you have some fairly ripe prospects coming back to replace them sooner than later. If the deals aren't great, keep them.

Then after this year, we look to bring in a few Copp/Perron-esque signings, perhaps even a 'change of scenery but still has potential' trade or two, to fill out the roster while we wait on the
"Larkin- Raymond- Seider- Ed- Cossa- Kasper- 2023 top 10 pick" core to become a hopefully really good hockey team. I'd be hoping to be in the playoff race in 2023-4, and start contending around 2025-6.

LOL And why would we do this? You're at least $20,000,000 under the cap floor, And yes the cap floor is a very real thing. Thank god you're not our GM we'd be tanking for absolutely no reason.

 

[HisNoodliness]

LOL And why would we do this? You're at least $20,000,000 under the cap floor, And yes the cap floor is a very real thing. Thank god you're not our GM we'd be tanking for absolutely no reason.

The reason being that while I think a Larkin- Seider- Raymond- Edvinsson- Cossa- Kasper core can make the playoffs and maybe even win a cup, I don't think it's going to be one of the best teams in the league. Right now, we'd need some of our second rounders to turn into not just NHLers, but elite pieces like Berggren becoming Kucherov and Niederbach becoming Point to build a team like Tampa or Colorado. Add Bedard, Michkov, or one of the other top 5 players this draft to what we've built thus far, and I think we're ready to build one of the best teams in the league around that core.

Give the UFAs big AAV, 1 year deals and trade for some short cap dumps. Teams game the floor without a second thought every season.

 

[WF19]

If Detroit only improves by 6 wins next year I would be absolutely shocked. Last year the Wings were a team that should have gotten 79 to 84 points by most models but COMPLETELY crapped the bed in the 2nd half and ended up with 74.

I think anything less than 10 more wins next year is unacceptable.

I agree. At the end of the season when Blash was let go he admitted he didn't want to mess up the rebuild. That tells me it wasn't we are gonna try to win every game. More like we are gonna run some experiments.

 

[Frk It]

It's something that I'm very torn on. Honestly because the top of this draft looks so very strong, I wish that we could tank this year. However, I think that hockey players can only be expected to lose for so long and Larkin's clock is running out. With the emergence of the Seider and Raymond, I just don't think we can justify tanking again to the locker room. So I'm cool with the direction the team took and I think it was probably our only good option. If injuries/cold streaks topple this house of cards, that'd have a hell of a silver lining.

However if you told me that we had an incredible sports psychologist onboard that could keep the players happy, we could restart the off-season and I was GM, I'd strongly consider something along the lines of:

1. Trade Bert with retention for a really good prospect and/or a 2023 1st. Maybe LA would part with Byfield. Let's not get sidetracked arguing trade values though. Whatever reality gives you when you try something like Bert for Byfield. If we work out a sign and trade to get more value, even better.

2. Don't sign Perron, Copp or Chiarot. Don't trade for Husso. Instead, have a roster spot gift-wrapped for Berggren, Veleno and Edvinsson while signing players from the bargain bin to fill out the roster. The rest of our moves are cool.

Ultimately we roll out something like:
Vrana- Larkin- Raymond
Kubalik- Suter- Zadina
Veleno- Ras- Berggren
Erne- Sundquist- Smith
Sign a couple league minimums as subs for when the kids struggle. Maybe someone wins a spot on the fourth line. It's also a big opportunity for Veleno, Berggren, Ras and Zadina to grab ice time if they can. Hopefully one of them can establish themselves as a difference maker.

Matta- Seider
Walman- Hronek
Edvinsson- Lindstrom (Pysyk when he's back)
Oesterle as sub 1. Sign another league min to sub 2. The defense is also pretty inexperienced, but Ed is really the only guy I worry about getting hung out to dry. Give him a shift with Seider every once in a while.

Ned
Generic backup UFA signing

That's a roster that's very likely to finish bottom 5. Consider moving Hronek and/or Vrana at the deadline to get even worse and pick up more futures, but make sure that you have some fairly ripe prospects coming back to replace them sooner than later. If the deals aren't great, keep them.

Then after this year, we look to bring in a few Copp/Perron-esque signings, perhaps even a 'change of scenery but still has potential' trade or two, to fill out the roster while we wait on the
"Larkin- Raymond- Seider- Ed- Cossa- Kasper- 2023 top 10 pick" core to become a hopefully really good hockey team. I'd be hoping to be in the playoff race in 2023-4, and start contending around 2025-6.

I think if you had to have conversations with the players on the team as part of your job you’d be a lot less torn on what you’d do.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I think if you had to have conversations with the players on the team as part of your job you’d be a lot less torn on what you’d do.

Yeah, it really is the psychological aspect of the players that pushes me against tanking any further. If they were perfect robots who's play would progress on the same trajectory regardless of the team around them and their history, I'd be down to tank. As you said though, I don't think I could sit down with Larkin and say "look man, I really want a good shot at Bedard or Michkov and a guaranteed Yager. So I've put you in a position to lose again. Make sure you keep up all of your good workout habits and teach the next generation the right way to play though. You have to stay engaged for 60 minutes a game, 82 games a season. Also I want you to take a team friendly deal so that we can build a competitive team. I know you haven't gotten to compete yet and want what you're worth, but we'll be really good within the next 3 years so just be patient and take less so we can build properly"

I don't think that would go over well in the locker room.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It's something that I'm very torn on. Honestly because the top of this draft looks so very strong, I wish that we could tank this year. However, I think that hockey players can only be expected to lose for so long and Larkin's clock is running out. With the emergence of the Seider and Raymond, I just don't think we can justify tanking again to the locker room. So I'm cool with the direction the team took and I think it was probably our only good option. If injuries/cold streaks topple this house of cards, that'd have a hell of a silver lining.

However if you told me that we had an incredible sports psychologist onboard that could keep the players happy, we could restart the off-season and I was GM, I'd strongly consider something along the lines of:

1. Trade Bert with retention for a really good prospect and/or a 2023 1st. Maybe LA would part with Byfield. Let's not get sidetracked arguing trade values though. Whatever reality gives you when you try something like Bert for Byfield. If we work out a sign and trade to get more value, even better.

2. Don't sign Perron, Copp or Chiarot. Don't trade for Husso. Instead, have a roster spot gift-wrapped for Berggren, Veleno and Edvinsson while signing players from the bargain bin to fill out the roster. The rest of our moves are cool.

Ultimately we roll out something like:
Vrana- Larkin- Raymond
Kubalik- Suter- Zadina
Veleno- Ras- Berggren
Erne- Sundquist- Smith
Sign a couple league minimums as subs for when the kids struggle. Maybe someone wins a spot on the fourth line. It's also a big opportunity for Veleno, Berggren, Ras and Zadina to grab ice time if they can. Hopefully one of them can establish themselves as a difference maker.

Matta- Seider
Walman- Hronek
Edvinsson- Lindstrom (Pysyk when he's back)
Oesterle as sub 1. Sign another league min to sub 2. The defense is also pretty inexperienced, but Ed is really the only guy I worry about getting hung out to dry. Give him a shift with Seider every once in a while.

Ned
Generic backup UFA signing

That's a roster that's very likely to finish bottom 5. Consider moving Hronek and/or Vrana at the deadline to get even worse and pick up more futures, but make sure that you have some fairly ripe prospects coming back to replace them sooner than later. If the deals aren't great, keep them.

Then after this year, we look to bring in a few Copp/Perron-esque signings, perhaps even a 'change of scenery but still has potential' trade or two, to fill out the roster while we wait on the
"Larkin- Raymond- Seider- Ed- Cossa- Kasper- 2023 top 10 pick" core to become a hopefully really good hockey team. I'd be hoping to be in the playoff race in 2023-4, and start contending around 2025-6.

I’m glad you’re not the GM. I don’t think there is any way to get the players to buy into your plan.

The 2023 FA class is awful. If you don’t sign decent players this offseason you’re likely waiting until 25 or 26 before there is another deep FA crop.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah, it really is the psychological aspect of the players that pushes me against tanking any further. If they were perfect robots who's play would progress on the same trajectory regardless of the team around them and their history, I'd be down to tank. As you said though, I don't think I could sit down with Larkin and say "look man, I really want a good shot at Bedard or Michkov and a guaranteed Yager. So I've put you in a position to lose again. Make sure you keep up all of your good workout habits and teach the next generation the right way to play though. You have to stay engaged for 60 minutes a game, 82 games a season. Also I want you to take a team friendly deal so that we can build a competitive team. I know you haven't gotten to compete yet and want what you're worth, but we'll be really good within the next 3 years so just be patient and take less so we can build properly"

I don't think that would go over well in the locker room.

And Raymond and Seider… after the years they just had.

The other thing is, you are putting yourself in a situation where your odds of getting fired as the GM go up a ton. So now you are talking about 2 different GMs executing strategies, more than likely. That could go a couple different ways.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I think we just have to try and trade for some more 23 1sts cause this draft does look bonkers so far. Hronek and Bertuzzi both can garner that and if the summer keeps dragging on wihtout Bert signing I’d definitely trade the guy

 

[MBH]

I’m glad you’re not the GM. I don’t think there is any way to get the players to buy into your plan.

The 2023 FA class is awful. If you don’t sign decent players this offseason you’re likely waiting until 25 or 26 before there is another deep FA crop.

We signed Andrew Copp, David Perron and Ben Chiarot.
You can get those level guys every f***ing year.
So stop with the bullshit.
Need a center:
Horvat. Monahan. OReilly. Toews. JT Miller.

Need a defense?
Orlov. Sanheim. Severson. Gostisbehere. Dumoulin. Weegar. Graves. yada yada yada.

I think Yzerman had a good offseason. But I don't think the goal here is the playoffs, and I definitely don't think this team is a playoff team.

The goal here is stabilization.
The wheels fell off again last year.
Our goals against was f***ing worse last year than it was 2 years ago - when we were a joke team.

Our GAA was 4.21 in the second half.

It was time to take serious steps to stabilize the team so it looks like an NHL team.
That's what Copp and Chiarot and Perron and Maatta are.

This isn't "Hey Hey Hockeytown. We're back in the playoffs."

So expect better hockey.
Expect to be in the hunt for a Wildcard on Jan. 1.

But we're probably on the outside looking in when all is said and done.

 

[StargateSG1]

We signed Andrew Copp, David Perron and Ben Chiarot.
You can get those level guys every f***ing year.
So stop with the bullshit.
Need a center:
Horvat. Monahan. OReilly. Toews. JT Miller.

Need a defense?
Orlov. Sanheim. Severson. Gostisbehere. Dumoulin. Weegar. Graves. yada yada yada.

I think Yzerman had a good offseason. But I don't think the goal here is the playoffs, and I definitely don't think this team is a playoff team.

The goal here is stabilization.
The wheels fell off again last year.
Our goals against was f***ing worse last year than it was 2 years ago - when we were a joke team.

Our GAA was 4.21 in the second half.

It was time to take serious steps to stabilize the team so it looks like an NHL team.
That's what Copp and Chiarot and Perron and Maatta are.

This isn't "Hey Hey Hockeytown. We're back in the playoffs."

So expect better hockey.
Expect to be in the hunt for a Wildcard on Jan. 1.

But we're probably on the outside looking in when all is said and done.
View attachment 575151

Yeah, Wings signed UFAs ranked 20 (Perron), 26 (Copp), 32(Chariot), 40(Kubalik) and Maata (Not in Top 50)
As "vanilla" as it gets....

 

[golffuul]

Yeah, Wings signed UFAs ranked 20 (Perron), 26 (Copp), 32(Chariot), 40(Kubalik) and Maata (Not in Top 50)
As "vanilla" as it gets....

Adds an entire 2nd line creating tons of depth and ability to let our kids finally develop. Also adds 2 legitimate LD which we haven't had in 2-3 years, plus a 1A/1B goaltender.

Yep....as Vanilla as it gets.

SMH

BTW...I couldn't see who you were replying to, so I assumed it was sarcasm on your part.

 

[StargateSG1]

Adds an entire 2nd line creating tons of depth and ability to let our kids finally develop. Also adds 2 legitimate LD which we haven't had in 2-3 years, plus a 1A/1B goaltender.

Yep....as Vanilla as it gets.

SMH

And most other teams have better 2nd lines still....It's all relative.
Not to mention Top lines and Top Centers

 

[golffuul]

And most other teams have better 2nd lines still....It's all relative.
Not to mention Top lines and Top Centers

Our top line had two 30 goal scorers and a 20 goal scoring rookie. Not sure how much "better" you think we need to have to compete. What we needed this offseason was depth. Copp fills our 2nd C position perfectly and Perron/Kubalik have both scored 30 goals in their career. Plus having Vrana's offense. And if we have any bit of a PP, we should see our offensive numbers go up significantly.

You can't compare our team to Colorado or Tampa. They are 3-5 years further along than we are.

Slow and steady wins the race (and the Cups)

 

[Bench]

Adds an entire 2nd line creating tons of depth and ability to let our kids finally develop. Also adds 2 legitimate LD which we haven't had in 2-3 years, plus a 1A/1B goaltender.

I'm not sure where he got those rankings, and not that rankings mean anything, but I remember when watching the TSN free agent frenzy, that Perron, Chiarot, and Copp were all in the top 15.

UFA was a pleasant surprise this year.

 

[golffuul]

I'm not sure where he got those rankings, and not that rankings mean anything, but I remember when watching the TSN free agent frenzy, that Perron, Chiarot, and Copp were all in the top 15.

UFA was a pleasant surprise this year.

Yeah. I'm just glad these folks aren't our GM.

 

[StargateSG1]

I'm not sure where he got those rankings, and not that rankings mean anything, but I remember when watching the TSN free agent frenzy, that Perron, Chiarot, and Copp were all in the top 15.

UFA was a pleasant surprise this year.

NHL free agency 2022: Ranking top 50 free agents, best players by position | Sporting News Canada

Claude Giroux, Johnny Gaudreau and Evegni Malkin headline this year's free agent class.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[Bench]

NHL free agency 2022: Ranking top 50 free agents, best players by position | Sporting News Canada

Claude Giroux, Johnny Gaudreau and Evegni Malkin headline this year's free agent class.

www.sportingnews.com

OK well big problem with this list. It has RFAs like Tkachuk and Jason Robertson and then guys like Malkin, who re-signed, on it.

Or Jake Oettinger. Yeah I'm really bummed Yzerman didn't sign restricted FA Otter in unrestricted free agency.

 

[StargateSG1]

OK well big problem with this list. It has RFAs like Tkachuk and Jason Robertson and then guys like Malkin, who re-signed, on it.

Or Jake Oettinger. Yeah I'm really bummed Yzerman didn't sign restricted FA Otter in unrestricted free agency.

I don't think they said UFAs, just FAs, which include RFAs.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't think they said UFAs, just FAs, which include RFAs.

Yeah, Wings signed UFAs ranked 20 (Perron), 26 (Copp), 32(Chariot), 40(Kubalik) and Maata (Not in Top 50)
As "vanilla" as it gets....

What am I missing here?

YOU said Detroit had a vanilla free agency.

YOU attached UFA rankings based on a list.

Then it was determined that the list of rankings included several guys that weren't even possible for Detroit to sign.

If you're not impressed with the guys they signed, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion. But at least be genuine with how you bag on them.

I mean, sure, Perron and Copp are downright lousy...if I'm comparing them to waiving a magic wand and bringing in Pastrnak and McDavid.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Interesting that Larkin's contract even at 6.1 mil is not ranked that well....
This is from Athletics "Contracts Ranking" story, Wings ranked 20th with this:

"Everyone seems to love the Yzerplan and the Red Wings rebuild and the team has done some strong work towards getting to the next step. The David Perron signing this summer was extremely savvy and Dominik Kubalik is a decent bet at his price point too. The Jakub Vrana trade from two seasons prior was strong too and those three mark up Detroit’s best contracts.


But for the most part, there aren’t a lot of great deals on the books and the team hamstrung themselves a bit with two signings in particular this summer: Andrew Copp and Ben Chiarot. Copp is a nifty utility player, but the price tag and term are a bit much for what he offers. Chiarot is the bigger issue as he’s being paid to be a solid number three on the depth chart and is probably better suited to a third pair role. This model (and any other) isn’t very fond of what he brings to the table so Detroit gets a big ding for that, maybe bigger than it actually should. Still, those two deals represent Detroit’s longest cap commitments which aren’t ideal.


The Red Wings rank 20th here, but one massive advantage they have is having Lucas Raymond and Moritz Seider on ELCs. That’s a huge bonus that no other team possesses. If those two counted, they would drive up the surplus value by a decent amount. Seider is already an $8 million calibre defender while Raymond is close to a $6 million forward."

View attachment 574942

larkin's contract isn't ranked that well because it's only for one year. there is't much surplus value there.

 

[StargateSG1]

What am I missing here?

YOU said Detroit had a vanilla free agency.

YOU attached UFA rankings based on a list.

Then it was determined that the list of rankings included several guys that weren't even possible for Detroit to sign.

If you're not impressed with the guys they signed, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion. But at least be genuine with how you bag on them.

I mean, sure, Perron and Copp are downright lousy...if I'm comparing them to waiving a magic wand and bringing in Pastrnak and McDavid.

I just accept them as 2nd tier KTLO types to run the original 6 team, not much to fret about, not much to overly get excited about. That is all.