News Article: Wings are Luszczyszyn's most improved team

[Nut Upstrom]

And now they have a wholly different second line, a goalie who isn’t 35 years old and breaking down, and while they did have good overall injury luck…

Larkin was hamstrung by an injury, Vrana missed 75% of the season, Bertuzzi missed time due to injury and vaccine choices.

But hey, let’s never let context get in the way of a good bitch fest

Bitchfest '22 baby! Maybe we can get Courtney Love as our headliner

 

[StargateSG1]

Hahhahahahaha.

Hahahahhaha. You don’t get how funny this is because hypocrisy.

What's funny?
That everything the 7 of you or so don't like is "stupid", "idiotic" "border-line dumb-dumb" and so on?
J Fresh Model (sounds like a salad place) told you so?

Now, THIS is funny!

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

the Wings had the 3rd worst goal differential in the league last year even with above average health and some shooting percentage luck from various players

they overperformed being 8th worst in points

With...

Leddy (gone)
Staal (gone)
Oesterle (now the 8th or 9th best defenseman, not the 5th)
DeKeyser (gone)
Greiss (gone)

Chiarot alone is an upgrade on any of the defensemen listed above. So is Maatta. Ville Husso was 7th in Vezina voting and was one of the best goalies in the league despite a mediocre St. Louis defense (when compared to their cup winning year, especially) Hagg and Pysyk are depth guys but still would have been upgrades over Staal, Oesterle and DeKeyser.

We also had Blashill and Houda behind the bench. From 2018-19 to 2021-22 Detroit's PK was...
18-19: 77.14% (League average 80.22)
19-20: 74.34% (League average 79.97)
20-21: 78.71% (League average 80.22)
21-22: 73.78% (League average 79.39)
Every. single. year. below. league. average.

Now Lalonde, Boughner and Varaday are behind the bench. Boughner is one of the top PK coaches in the league over the span I posted above.
Here's Boughner
18-19: 81.30% (with Florida)
19-20: 85.71% (Took over San Jose mid season)
20-21: 80.43%
21-22: 85.20%

Lalonde joined the lightning in 2018 and borrowed Boughner's strategies.
18-19: 85.02% (the season before he joined it was 76.03%)
19-20: 81.39%
20-21: 84.15%
21-22: 80.56%

Detroit shouldn't have been in the playoff hunt last season but they pooped the bed in the 2nd half and lost about 5 more games than they should have, and gave up 7 goals or more 8 times from february to the end of the season, and gave up 5 or more goals 17 times in the last 35 games. They gave up 5 or more goals 16 times in the previous 47 games. That means Detroit gave up 5 or more goals 33 times on the season And I believe that Detroit also set the record for empty net goals against in a season.

That absolutely cannot happen again.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What's funny?
That everything the 7 of you or so don't like is "stupid", "idiotic" "border-line dumb-dumb" and so on?
J Fresh Model (sounds like a salad place) told you so?

Now, THIS is funny!

The Red Wings added a whole second line of legitimate NHL players. They have Seider who won the Calder and Raymond who finished fourth with a year under their belts. They replaced Leddy and a couple completely busted ass defensemen in Stetcher and Staal and DeKeyser with Chiarot, Maatta, Pysyk (before hurt), and Hagg. Instead of a really showing his age Greiss who couldn’t patch over a garbage D they have Ville Husso this year

Like they turned over 6-8 really bad NHL level to okay AHL level pieces into okay NHL level pieces.

Also, I know you don’t read because you have your locked in opinion and don’t change… but I don’t value JFresh at all. Or evolving hockey at all.

It’s borderline dumb-dumb to point at a team that literally iced about 6 NHL level talents getting 21 ROW to mean a f***in thing when that team replaces a bunch of the trash with guys who aren’t super old or slow or jank.

It’s worthless analysis to say “they sucked last year so they’ll suck this year.”

 

[StargateSG1]

With...

Leddy (gone)
Staal (gone)
Oesterle (now the 8th or 9th best defenseman, not the 5th)
DeKeyser (gone)
Greiss (gone)

Chiarot alone is an upgrade on any of the defensemen listed above. So is Maatta. Ville Husso was 7th in Vezina voting and was one of the best goalies in the league despite a mediocre St. Louis defense (when compared to their cup winning year, especially) Hagg and Pysyk are depth guys but still would have been upgrades over Staal, Oesterle and DeKeyser.

We also had Blashill and Houda behind the bench. From 2018-19 to 2021-22 Detroit's PK was...
18-19: 77.14% (League average 80.22)
19-20: 74.34% (League average 79.97)
20-21: 78.71% (League average 80.22)
21-22: 73.78% (League average 79.39)

Now Lalonde, Boughner and Varaday are behind the bench. Boughner is one of the top PK coaches in the league over the span I posted above.
Here's Boughner
18-19: 81.30% (with Florida)
19-20: 85.71% (Took over San Jose mid season)
20-21: 80.43%
21-22: 85.20%

Lalonde joined the lightning in 2018 and borrowed Boughner's strategies.
18-19: 85.02% (the season before he joined it was 76.03%)
19-20: 81.39%
20-21: 84.15%
21-22: 80.56%

Detroit shouldn't have been in the playoff hunt last season but they pooped the bed in the 2nd half and lost about 5 more games than they should have, and gave up 7 goals or more 8 times from february to the end of the season, and gave up 5 or more goals 17 times in the last 35 games. They gave up 5 or more goals 16 times in the previous 47 games. That means Detroit gave up 5 or more goals 33 times on the season And I believe that Detroit also set the record for empty net goals against in a season.

That absolutely cannot happen again.

I am sorry, I just can't stop laughing, believing this team should have been in playoffs last season is beyond naive.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I am sorry, I just can't stop laughing, believing this team should have been in playoffs last season is beyond naive.

I didn't say they should have been in the playoffs last season. I specifically said "Detroit shouldn't have been...". Read the whole post before you go on making your comments.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I am sorry, I just can't stop laughing, believing this team should have been in playoffs last season is beyond naive.

Detroit shouldn't have been in the playoff hunt last season

What. I think you should learn to comprehend what you’re reading before you keep laughing, bud. Verbatim from the top of the last paragraph Ogee wrote.

Oh and I think he’s f***in crazy for hating Hronek as much as he does.

 

[StargateSG1]

I didn't say they should have been in the playoffs last season. I specifically said "Detroit shouldn't have been...". Read the whole post before you go on making your comments.

Yes, I misread it, my bad. Trying to work here too.. LOL

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Detroit shouldn't have been in the playoff hunt last season

What. I think you should learn to comprehend what you’re reading before you keep laughing, bud. Verbatim from the top of the last paragraph Ogee wrote.

Oh and I think he’s f***in crazy for hating Hronek as much as he does.

People thought I was crazy when I said Cholowski was a bust, and when I went against the grain by saying Seider had more offense than people thought after he was drafted. People also told me I was crazy when I said Seider was the best player outside of the NHL and would step in and be our #1 immediately. And you can call me crazy for this too; By the end of the season Simon Edvinsson will be the 2nd best defenseman on the team. I'm confident I'll be right.

I won't say "I told you so" if/when Hronek shits the bed next season. I'll welcome you into the fold as an honorary member of the Hronek Hater's Federation. We meet at 7pm EST on Wednesdays. There's donuts and coffee. Sometimes Bench's mom makes us rice crispy treats.

 

[StargateSG1]

Happy International Beer Day, BTW!

 

[StargateSG1]

Happy International Beer Day, BTW!

People thought I was crazy when I said Cholowski was a bust, and when I went against the grain by saying Seider had more offense than people thought after he was drafted. People also told me I was crazy when I said Seider was the best player outside of the NHL and would step in and be our #1 immediately. And you can call me crazy for this too; By the end of the season Simon Edvinsson will be the 2nd best defenseman on the team. I'm confident I'll be right.

I won't say "I told you so" if/when Hronek shits the bed next season. I'll welcome you into the fold as an honorary member of the Hronek Hater's Federation. We meet at 7pm EST on Wednesdays. There's donuts and coffee. Sometimes Bench's mom makes us rice crispy treats.

Yeah, well, Kenny's drafting was suspect for years, and Yzerman drafting has been top notch for a long time.
Not surprised that Cholo was a bust and Seider is going to be a star, especially since Yzerman watched him a lot.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Happy International Beer Day, BTW!

I will grant you… I could be wrong about the difference between what they let walk and what they brought in.

I just know that guys like Gagner, Namestnikov, Erne, G. smith, Fabbri, etc on offense were either quite bad or were overslotted. I know that Fabbri and Vrana, two potential top 6 forwards of NHL caliber were sidelined.

And on defense, we had about 2.5-2.75 full NHL players (Seider is 1.0, Hronek is 0.5 as his defense sucks, Leddy was 0.5 because he didn’t care…. And you add up the rest and they’re either negative value or breaking even).

They’ve brought in on D at least guys who will give a full effort, who aren’t broken on a fundamental level, and are now more than one bout of the sniffles away from Jordan Oesterle in the top 4

 

[Henkka]

If Detroit only improves by 6 wins next year I would be absolutely shocked. Last year the Wings were a team that should have gotten 79 to 84 points by most models but COMPLETELY crapped the bed in the 2nd half and ended up with 74.

I think anything less than 10 more wins next year is unacceptable.

WAR model added 14.5 wins.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

WAR model added 14.5 wins.

And that's why I said less than 10 wins is not a good or acceptable outcome, barring total disaster from injuries this year.

 

[Frk It]

I don’t think people are stupid for wanting to tank longer, I just think it comes across as stupid when that gets suggested and it consistently lacks details (how many more years, what players do we target), and more importantly gets used as tool to tear down and criticize any actionable/tangible upgrades we make to the team.

 

[dalem177]

I haven't seen (some) Wings' fans this over-optimistic since the Alfredsson/Weiss signings.

Hey, Weiss had that one good game...

Man I felt bad for him. And the guy with the neck thing. Was that the same season Gustavsson threw his own arm out of his socket?

I truly did not understand that I was headed for a long hard haul as a fan. I figured "but Nyquist and Tats will just step in and be the next Zetterberg and Datsyuk - how hard can that be, with how great the Wings are at Euro-farming?"

But I learned. Boy, did I learn.

 

[Macoun]

Hey, Weiss had that one good game...

Man I felt bad for him. And the guy with the neck thing. Was that the same season Gustavsson threw his own arm out of his socket?

I truly did not understand that I was headed for a long hard haul as a fan. I figured "but Nyquist and Tats will just step in and be the next Zetterberg and Datsyuk - how hard can that be, with how great the Wings are at Euro-farming?"

But I learned. Boy, did I learn.

I actually just watched a game on YouTube from that season and I swear Weiss looked great out there.

What a weird season that was. Datsyuk was injured over half the year and our points leader was alfredsson with 49. Plus Dekeyser was actually a really good defenseman back then

 

[DanielMarois]

I don't think the improvement will be that great. The Defence is slow, don't think Copp as full-time 2c will have the impact that some think be will, and you have to worry about sophomore slumps.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I don’t think people are stupid for wanting to tank longer, I just think it comes across as stupid when that gets suggested and it consistently lacks details (how many more years, what players do we target), and more importantly gets used as tool to tear down and criticize any actionable/tangible upgrades we make to the team.

It's something that I'm very torn on. Honestly because the top of this draft looks so very strong, I wish that we could tank this year. However, I think that hockey players can only be expected to lose for so long and Larkin's clock is running out. With the emergence of the Seider and Raymond, I just don't think we can justify tanking again to the locker room. So I'm cool with the direction the team took and I think it was probably our only good option. If injuries/cold streaks topple this house of cards, that'd have a hell of a silver lining.

However if you told me that we had an incredible sports psychologist onboard that could keep the players happy, we could restart the off-season and I was GM, I'd strongly consider something along the lines of:

1. Trade Bert with retention for a really good prospect and/or a 2023 1st. Maybe LA would part with Byfield. Let's not get sidetracked arguing trade values though. Whatever reality gives you when you try something like Bert for Byfield. If we work out a sign and trade to get more value, even better.

2. Don't sign Perron, Copp or Chiarot. Don't trade for Husso. Instead, have a roster spot gift-wrapped for Berggren, Veleno and Edvinsson while signing players from the bargain bin to fill out the roster. The rest of our moves are cool.

Ultimately we roll out something like:
Vrana- Larkin- Raymond
Kubalik- Suter- Zadina
Veleno- Ras- Berggren
Erne- Sundquist- Smith
Sign a couple league minimums as subs for when the kids struggle. Maybe someone wins a spot on the fourth line. It's also a big opportunity for Veleno, Berggren, Ras and Zadina to grab ice time if they can. Hopefully one of them can establish themselves as a difference maker.

Matta- Seider
Walman- Hronek
Edvinsson- Lindstrom (Pysyk when he's back)
Oesterle as sub 1. Sign another league min to sub 2. The defense is also pretty inexperienced, but Ed is really the only guy I worry about getting hung out to dry. Give him a shift with Seider every once in a while.

Ned
Generic backup UFA signing

That's a roster that's very likely to finish bottom 5. Consider moving Hronek and/or Vrana at the deadline to get even worse and pick up more futures, but make sure that you have some fairly ripe prospects coming back to replace them sooner than later. If the deals aren't great, keep them.

Then after this year, we look to bring in a few Copp/Perron-esque signings, perhaps even a 'change of scenery but still has potential' trade or two, to fill out the roster while we wait on the
"Larkin- Raymond- Seider- Ed- Cossa- Kasper- 2023 top 10 pick" core to become a hopefully really good hockey team. I'd be hoping to be in the playoff race in 2023-4, and start contending around 2025-6.

 

[MBH]

I actually just watched a game on YouTube from that season and I swear Weiss looked great out there.

What a weird season that was. Datsyuk was injured over half the year and our points leader was alfredsson with 49. Plus Dekeyser was actually a really good defenseman back then

I remember Weiss had a few games on L4 and the 2nd PP unit where he did look good.
For whatever reason, Babcock refused to use him.
He did score 1/2 point per game playing limited minutes.
and then he was gone.

His total disappearance from the game was as weird as Ian White's

 

[StargateSG1]

It's something that I'm very torn on. Honestly because the top of this draft looks so very strong, I wish that we could tank this year. However, I think that hockey players can only be expected to lose for so long and Larkin's clock is running out. With the emergence of the Seider and Raymond, I just don't think we can justify tanking again to the locker room. So I'm cool with the direction the team took and I think it was probably our only good option. If injuries/cold streaks topple this house of cards, that'd have a hell of a silver lining.

However if you told me that we had an incredible sports psychologist onboard that could keep the players happy, we could restart the off-season and I was GM, I'd strongly consider something along the lines of:

1. Trade Bert with retention for a really good prospect and/or a 2023 1st. Maybe LA would part with Byfield. Let's not get sidetracked arguing trade values though. Whatever reality gives you when you try something like Bert for Byfield. If we work out a sign and trade to get more value, even better.

2. Don't sign Perron, Copp or Chiarot. Don't trade for Husso. Instead, have a roster spot gift-wrapped for Berggren, Veleno and Edvinsson while signing players from the bargain bin to fill out the roster. The rest of our moves are cool.

Ultimately we roll out something like:
Vrana- Larkin- Raymond
Kubalik- Suter- Zadina
Veleno- Ras- Berggren
Erne- Sundquist- Smith
Sign a couple league minimums as subs for when the kids struggle. Maybe someone wins a spot on the fourth line. It's also a big opportunity for Veleno, Berggren, Ras and Zadina to grab ice time if they can. Hopefully one of them can establish themselves as a difference maker.

Matta- Seider
Walman- Hronek
Edvinsson- Lindstrom (Pysyk when he's back)
Oesterle as sub 1. Sign another league min to sub 2. The defense is also pretty inexperienced, but Ed is really the only guy I worry about getting hung out to dry. Give him a shift with Seider every once in a while.

Ned
Generic backup UFA signing

That's a roster that's very likely to finish bottom 5. Consider moving Hronek and/or Vrana at the deadline to get even worse and pick up more futures, but make sure that you have some fairly ripe prospects coming back to replace them sooner than later. If the deals aren't great, keep them.

Then after this year, we look to bring in a few Copp/Perron-esque signings, perhaps even a 'change of scenery but still has potential' trade or two, to fill out the roster while we wait on the
"Larkin- Raymond- Seider- Ed- Cossa- Kasper- 2023 top 10 pick" core to become a hopefully really good hockey team. I'd be hoping to be in the playoff race in 2023-4, and start contending around 2025-6.

This was the year, if any, to go bare bones and see what transpires.
Larkin gets unhappy, oh well, trade him, it's a business most of all.
Remember, Colorado traded O'Reilly and Duchene to "re-energize" the rebuild.
No one is saying you should tank forever, just pick your battles and best years to do so.
Some people said if any teams can afford a flat out tank job, it's original 6... Re: Chicago

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

It's something that I'm very torn on. Honestly because the top of this draft looks so very strong, I wish that we could tank this year. However, I think that hockey players can only be expected to lose for so long and Larkin's clock is running out. With the emergence of the Seider and Raymond, I just don't think we can justify tanking again to the locker room. So I'm cool with the direction the team took and I think it was probably our only good option. If injuries/cold streaks topple this house of cards, that'd have a hell of a silver lining.

However if you told me that we had an incredible sports psychologist onboard that could keep the players happy, we could restart the off-season and I was GM, I'd strongly consider something along the lines of:

1. Trade Bert with retention for a really good prospect and/or a 2023 1st. Maybe LA would part with Byfield. Let's not get sidetracked arguing trade values though. Whatever reality gives you when you try something like Bert for Byfield. If we work out a sign and trade to get more value, even better.

2. Don't sign Perron, Copp or Chiarot. Don't trade for Husso. Instead, have a roster spot gift-wrapped for Berggren, Veleno and Edvinsson while signing players from the bargain bin to fill out the roster. The rest of our moves are cool.

Ultimately we roll out something like:
Vrana- Larkin- Raymond
Kubalik- Suter- Zadina
Veleno- Ras- Berggren
Erne- Sundquist- Smith
Sign a couple league minimums as subs for when the kids struggle. Maybe someone wins a spot on the fourth line. It's also a big opportunity for Veleno, Berggren, Ras and Zadina to grab ice time if they can. Hopefully one of them can establish themselves as a difference maker.

Matta- Seider
Walman- Hronek
Edvinsson- Lindstrom (Pysyk when he's back)
Oesterle as sub 1. Sign another league min to sub 2. The defense is also pretty inexperienced, but Ed is really the only guy I worry about getting hung out to dry. Give him a shift with Seider every once in a while.

Ned
Generic backup UFA signing

That's a roster that's very likely to finish bottom 5. Consider moving Hronek and/or Vrana at the deadline to get even worse and pick up more futures, but make sure that you have some fairly ripe prospects coming back to replace them sooner than later. If the deals aren't great, keep them.

Then after this year, we look to bring in a few Copp/Perron-esque signings, perhaps even a 'change of scenery but still has potential' trade or two, to fill out the roster while we wait on the
"Larkin- Raymond- Seider- Ed- Cossa- Kasper- 2023 top 10 pick" core to become a hopefully really good hockey team. I'd be hoping to be in the playoff race in 2023-4, and start contending around 2025-6.

This team is miles below the cap floor

 

[odin1981]

Interesting that Larkin's contract even at 6.1 mil is not ranked that well....
This is from Athletics "Contracts Ranking" story, Wings ranked 20th with this:

"Everyone seems to love the Yzerplan and the Red Wings rebuild and the team has done some strong work towards getting to the next step. The David Perron signing this summer was extremely savvy and Dominik Kubalik is a decent bet at his price point too. The Jakub Vrana trade from two seasons prior was strong too and those three mark up Detroit’s best contracts.


But for the most part, there aren’t a lot of great deals on the books and the team hamstrung themselves a bit with two signings in particular this summer: Andrew Copp and Ben Chiarot. Copp is a nifty utility player, but the price tag and term are a bit much for what he offers. Chiarot is the bigger issue as he’s being paid to be a solid number three on the depth chart and is probably better suited to a third pair role. This model (and any other) isn’t very fond of what he brings to the table so Detroit gets a big ding for that, maybe bigger than it actually should. Still, those two deals represent Detroit’s longest cap commitments which aren’t ideal.


The Red Wings rank 20th here, but one massive advantage they have is having Lucas Raymond and Moritz Seider on ELCs. That’s a huge bonus that no other team possesses. If those two counted, they would drive up the surplus value by a decent amount. Seider is already an $8 million calibre defender while Raymond is close to a $6 million forward."

View attachment 574942

Z I believe is off LTIRement already, and Franzen drops off in 24-25 if I remember correctly so we will have 2 spots for LTIR if either needs it.

 

[Henkka]

Z I believe is off LTIRement already, and Franzen drops off in 24-25 if I remember correctly so we will have 2 spots for LTIR if either needs it.

Not.

Franzen contract ended already at 2019-20 season.
Zetterberg ended after 2020-21.

You must haven been thinking about possible buyouts, which could extend those caphits?

Nielsen buyout caphit will drop out after 2022-23 season and Abdelkader 2026.

 

[Henkka]

I actually just watched a game on YouTube from that season and I swear Weiss looked great out there.

What a weird season that was. Datsyuk was injured over half the year and our points leader was alfredsson with 49. Plus Dekeyser was actually a really good defenseman back then

Yeah. Healthy Dekeyser was like healthy Chiarot.