LeBrun: Winger Jeff Skinner is the most likely to move and it could happen as soon as the next 7-10 days

[boredmale]

10 days from now is the 17. Wouldn't it make more sense he would be traded AT the draft which is on the 22nd

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Skinner + Hanifin for Saad + Nashville's 1st (#27OA) + Hawks 2019 2nd (becomes a 1st if Skinner signs an extension...but top 10 OA protected) plus dealers choice of any Dman in the Hawks organization not named Jokiharju (which would include last years 2nd round pick Ian Mitchell and Forsling who is NHL ready (to be at least a solid bottom pairing LHD, or even Ryan Murphy/Oesterle/Gustafson if one of them float your boat more).

I think Skinner is the better player then Saad. But Saad is a year younger, has won 2 Cups, and is under contract for 3 more years @ 6 as opposed to 1 and then Skinner looking for 7+ (given the inflation in the cap) long term. It will take a little imagination to look past Saad's down year and see his full value, but 4 very solid years in a row with 2 different organization prior to a down year should help give clarity on his value. If Skinner won't sign an extension with Carolina and has a NMC, his potential destinations become limited and reduce his trade value some.

Too much quantity for quality IMO. Late 1st round picks have about a 20% chance of becoming a top 4D, top 6F. This is basically Skinner for a late 1st and a 2nd (which is about what he could get at the trade deadline) and Saad + B prospect for Hanifin, which I wouldn't do.

I'd rather go with 16th OA + prospect from Colorado, which was proposed earlier, and keep Hanifin out of it.

 

[tmlfan98]

Nylander and Gardiner for Skinner and Pesce.

 

[Sol]

What's weird to me is how much from listening to Lebrun and Bobby Mac talk yesterday and a few days ago as well, they keep saying the Kings are heavily into one of Skinner or Kessel.

 

[Curufinwe]

Skinner is a tremendous goal scorer, but is average to below average in most other parts of the game. He can excel with the right linemates, but it isn't easy to find those right linemates. He needs a guy that creates room and crashes the net plus a guy that can dish the puck without really looking for his own shot

Skinner-Coutrier-Voracek
Giroux-Patrick-Konecny
Lindblom-Laughton-Simmonds
Weal-Lehtera-Raffl
Weise

 

[GoldiFox]

Skinner + Hanifin for Saad + Nashville's 1st (#27OA) + Hawks 2019 2nd (becomes a 1st if Skinner signs an extension...but top 10 OA protected) plus dealers choice of any Dman in the Hawks organization not named Jokiharju (which would include last years 2nd round pick Ian Mitchell and Forsling who is NHL ready (to be at least a solid bottom pairing LHD, or even Ryan Murphy/Oesterle/Gustafson if one of them float your boat more).

I think Skinner is the better player then Saad. But Saad is a year younger, has won 2 Cups, and is under contract for 3 more years @ 6 as opposed to 1 and then Skinner looking for 7+ (given the inflation in the cap) long term. It will take a little imagination to look past Saad's down year and see his full value, but 4 very solid years in a row with 2 different organization prior to a down year should help give clarity on his value. If Skinner won't sign an extension with Carolina and has a NMC, his potential destinations become limited and reduce his trade value some.

You could add #8 Overall and it would be closer, but still not great.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Skinner + Hanifin for Saad + Nashville's 1st (#27OA) + Hawks 2019 2nd (becomes a 1st if Skinner signs an extension...but top 10 OA protected) plus dealers choice of any Dman in the Hawks organization not named Jokiharju (which would include last years 2nd round pick Ian Mitchell and Forsling who is NHL ready (to be at least a solid bottom pairing LHD, or even Ryan Murphy/Oesterle/Gustafson if one of them float your boat more).

I think Skinner is the better player then Saad. But Saad is a year younger, has won 2 Cups, and is under contract for 3 more years @ 6 as opposed to 1 and then Skinner looking for 7+ (given the inflation in the cap) long term. It will take a little imagination to look past Saad's down year and see his full value, but 4 very solid years in a row with 2 different organization prior to a down year should help give clarity on his value. If Skinner won't sign an extension with Carolina and has a NMC, his potential destinations become limited and reduce his trade value some.

So basically we insta-rebuild the Hawks in exchange for a pile of expendable parts.

 

[StevenB]

i'd imagine colorado's 16+ prospect would be a better offer unless for some reason carolina had a big love for a leafs prospect and i doubt they do for Timashov.

Honestly I didn’t even take into account colorado’s offer too, you’re probably right. Sucks though cause I’m high on skinner

 

[u2wojo]

Saad is hardly an expendable spare part. #27 OA in a deep draft should be a very good prospect. Ian Mitchell was a 2nd rounder and after an outstanding year at Denver, he looks like closer to a first rounder talent then a late second at this point of his development. A conditional 2nd is likely a first (Hawks aren't trading multiple first and Saad to not resign Skinner and thus multiple 1st). Skinner is being moved/shopped because he presumably won't sign an extension (or at a rate the Canes can live with). He has a full no movement, so because a guy on this message board says the Avs will move #16 and a prospect for him, doesn't mean the Avs would or that Skinner would wave to go to Denver.

But yes, it is a present tense quality for a more future quantity proposition. Hawks are in the window for winning is about to slam shut (if that ship hasn't already sailed) with a GM and coach that are on a seat warming by the moment. Canes are not a contender (and I mean a legit Cup contender and not just a team that if they figure out their goaltending and get some nice internal development of the youths....capable of making the playoff (which I certainly can see) with Skinner going. Saad is a guy that can grow with the youths and be part of a legit Cup contender in the last 2 years of his deal (again...presuming Skinner will not/does not want to be there) .

 

[StevenB]

Nylander and Gardiner for Skinner and Pesce.

Peace is a great piece and is what we need but people are underrating Nylander. I get it Marner had a good end to the season which is why Nylander gets no love but he had 7 more 5v5 points than Marner. If Nylander wasn’t snakebit on the PP and just matched his PP production from last year he would’ve had 70 points. Only way he gets moved is as the centrepiece in a package for a #1 D

 

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

Avs could offer 16th pick and either Greer or Meloche.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Wasn’t there a rumor that Carolina was looking for “toughness?” If so, Greer would probably be their target as an add to #16 from the Avs. Dude is as tough as they come.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Prepare for an Eberle like return.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Wasn’t there a rumor that Carolina was looking for “toughness?” If so, Greer would probably be their target as an add to #16 from the Avs. Dude is as tough as they come.

People are mis-reading that quote a bit. Dundon said he wants the team to be "tougher to play against", and then gave Aho as an example of a guy that is tough to play against. He's looking for good hockey players that compete night in and night out. Not just "big tough guys".

 

[ManofSteel55]

People are mis-reading that quote a bit. Dundon said he wants the team to be "tougher to play against", and then gave Aho as an example of a guy that is tough to play against. He's looking for good hockey players that compete night in and night out. Not just "big tough guys".

Ssshhh. You want toughness. Skinner for Lucic it is.

 

[Neutrinos]

I don't get it, Carolina is a goalie away from being a good team, why are they trading key pieces?

Look at the contract that was just handed out to Evander Kane. That's what Skinner will be looking for next summer

 

[Papa Francouz]

People are mis-reading that quote a bit. Dundon said he wants the team to be "tougher to play against", and then gave Aho as an example of a guy that is tough to play against. He's looking for good hockey players that compete night in and night out. Not just "big tough guys".

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Now Greer is no Sebastian Aho, but he’s a smarter player than his physicality might suggest. There’s a layer of offense underneath his mean exterior that he’s shown in the AHL, but hasn’t translated to the NHL yet. I really like him as a prospect, but if we have to include him to get Skinner, he’s a guy I could part ways with on top of #16.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

For people asking why Carolina would trade Skinner given that they need goal scoring, there are a few possible reasons:

1) They may feel they can't (or don't want to) re-sign Skinner next year or he won't want to re-sign, so want to move on now from that.
2) Dundon and Waddell said they need to break the culture of losing that has been with Carolina so long so need to shake up the roster some. Skinner has been there the longest, followed by Faulk and Rask so maybe they feel guys like those guys need to move in order to change the culture.
3) Skinner hasn't meshed with many players recently in Carolina. It's weird, because he had great chemistry with Cole when he first got to Carolina and very good chemistry with Ruutu and Jokinen on the Skins and Finns line a few years back.
4) Skinner isn't good defensively. Even when he's engaged defensively, he's still not great. If he can score 30+ goals, he offsets that to some extent, but when he's not scoring that many goals, it probably hurts the team more than it helps.

He's highly competitive, isn't afraid to put in the time / effort and always works his ass off in the offseason to prepare for the season. He's still a dangerous, if a bit inconsistent, goal scorer where in a good year you could get 35+ goals and in a bad year you still will get 20-25 so he's going to get a big contract next off season.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Saad is hardly an expendable spare part. #27 OA in a deep draft should be a very good prospect. Ian Mitchell was a 2nd rounder and after an outstanding year at Denver, he looks like closer to a first rounder talent then a late second at this point of his development. A conditional 2nd is likely a first (Hawks aren't trading multiple first and Saad to not resign Skinner and thus multiple 1st). Skinner is being moved/shopped because he presumably won't sign an extension (or at a rate the Canes can live with). He has a full no movement, so because a guy on this message board says the Avs will move #16 and a prospect for him, doesn't mean the Avs would or that Skinner would wave to go to Denver.

But yes, it is a present tense quality for a more future quantity proposition. Hawks are in the window for winning is about to slam shut (if that ship hasn't already sailed) with a GM and coach that are on a seat warming by the moment. Canes are not a contender (and I mean a legit Cup contender and not just a team that if they figure out their goaltending and get some nice internal development of the youths....capable of making the playoff (which I certainly can see) with Skinner going. Saad is a guy that can grow with the youths and be part of a legit Cup contender in the last 2 years of his deal (again...presuming Skinner will not/does not want to be there) .

Hanifin was not mentioned in this post, yet he was in the proposal as well as Skinner.

As noted upthread, if you break this into its constituent parts it’s heavily weighted against the Canes. The Hawks get dramatically better and we get to hope that Saad bounces back and some low-1st type prospects develop. Maybe that makes sense for a team dealing veterans ahead of a rebuild, but why would they do that with young players coming out of a rebuild?

 

[MajorLeafsFan]

I'd love to see him in Colorado for the 16+ prospect or Dallas for the 13+ prospect.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Ah nevermind, I thought Skinner was a RW

 

[rent free]

wadell is asking for a 1st and a prospect

 

[SnS]

To philly? Please?

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

wadell is asking for a 1st and a prospect

happy to see his ask is fairly reasonable. (prospect depending obviously)

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's just strange to me that the Avs are looking for offense. Seems like the last thing they need.

Common misconception among outside onlookers apparently. Avs Defense is quite strong. Young, but strong. Left side is set for the next decade most likely with Zadorov and Girard in the Top 4, Nemeth on the 3rd pairing and extremely underrated Nick Meloche marinating in the AHL.

And that's the weaker side. Our Right side is possibly one of the deepest in the entire NHL, with Barrie and Johnson forming a very strong Top 4 on the Right side, and then both Makar and Timmins as Right Shot Defenders in the system as well.

All our defense needs is time for the young Dmen to continue taking steps forward in development. Next year stands to be a good chance for the rest of the hockey world to see what it is that has Avs fans so excited about our future. Zadorov took huge steps in his game down the stretch and into the playoffs last season and if he along with Girard picks up where theyhe left off in October(Like I fully expect them to) it wont be long before people will be raving about just how ridiculous a Defense the Avs have put together.




Offense is a different story. All the talk is around the first line and rightfully so, it was possibly the most dominant line in the NHL last season. But outside of that trio the Avs have some significant secondary scoring issues. Our 4th most productive forward was Alex Kerfoot and his 40 points, where a lot of them came very early in the year(He struggled from December onward), often times at meaningless points in a game(He scored 2 goals against the Islanders back in November in the final 40 seconds of the game when the Avs were down 6-2 for example).


Avs are in desperate need of some secondary scoring to take some of the burden off the top line to be good literally every night. The hope is Tyson Jost will step up next year and provide some of that secondary scoring, but he's going to need help. Especially if the plan is for him to be the 2C next season(Which many suspect is the case). Throwing him to the wolves as the 2C with Kerfoot and Andrighetto as his wingers for example is not a good strategy not only for the Avs success next year but also for Jost's ability to develop into a legit 2C. He needs to be surrounded by wingers that are established Top 6 forwards that he can learn and gain chemistry with over time.



Enter Jeff Skinner. A proven 30 goal scorer who's a very good skater and driver of offense. He'd fit well in Bednar's system where good skating is a basic requirement. And given that Jost appears to be a bit more of a playmaker then a pure shooter, Skinner on his wing could work extremely well and give the Avs a much needed boost from the 2nd line. Which would not only take pressure off the top line, but also off of Carl Soderberg and Matt Nieto who were asked to play way more challenging minutes then they should have had to play last year because of our lack of a 2nd line. I also think Skinner would fit like a glove on the Top PP unit as a trigger man on the right side of the PP while Mack is the trigger man on the Left side, with Barrie in the middle setting them both up, and Landeskog/Rantanen down low for the rebounds and garbage cleanup.



I dont necessarily want to give up pick #16 as I think it stands to be a really good player in the NHL if used properly. But if it means getting Skinner, and the + attached to it isn't a huge piece(Someone like former 2nd round pick AJ Greer, Vladislav Kamenev, or Cameron Morrison are the prospects I have in mind as the + that would be fair value), then I'd be ok with moving it.