Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Season Thread

[OHLTG]

What are you even talking about? I said that someone here during the trade deadline said this player was offered up for that one it never amounted to bupkus. You're the perfect example rationalizing it even though it violates the terms. In fact I think it's absolutely hilarious that you decided that response because you and I know the answer.

Or maybe you're just not clear?! I know how I took the comment, thus my response.

 

[TheGremlin]

I think DiPietro is by far the best goalie Windsor ever had. I feel the Spits would have really dominated more if we had someone like him over Engalage. I do think goalies have a big impact on teams. I never liked Erie’s goaltending during their run and in my opinion it cost them multiple OHL titles and at least 1 Memorial Cup. Windsor doesn’t beat them if they had a goaltender. I believe there is a team that will pay feeling he puts them over the top. But i agree with some where an average and above average goalie can carry a team to a title.

 

[OHLTG]

In the end, someone is likely going to pay for DiPietro, and it's going to be an impressive haul.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I dont believe he was suggesting this was a black and white issue. I believe the perspective presented suggested that a team can and has quite often won a Championship with a capable goalie. So his point was that if the team is good, it can and does win with a capable goalie that gets hot at the right time. Conversely, stellar goalies can be more than fine but be out played by a lesser goalie playing above their average.

So, the point really was that if a team is strong and they have capable goaltending, they will still win. Hamilton proved that this past season. Many other teams have proven that in the past. It is why Chris Osgoode has multiple Stanley Cups.

This isn’t about going into a season on a wing and a prayer hoping your goalie gets hot. It is about ensuring your goaltending is at least “good enough” to backstop a strong team through a long playoff run.

DiPietro can win games by himself but some teams only need their goalie to not lose the game.

Ding ding ding hence why I said there are shades of grey. I don't think teams go into it thinking they want to win with a "lesser" goalie either. There are costs involved and realize quite often it depends on the 6 D and 12 forwards in front of him. It's about risk minimization and if you can get a forward or D that can play big minutes, make people better around them and the cost is better that might be the better route.

 

[punch1943]

Regarding the trade freeze, take this how you will...

Flint Firebirds‏Verified account @FlintFirebirds
We have a trade to announce...Details coming Thursday
5:14 PM - 1 Aug 2018

I think I will stick with the report Legend posted on info from a couple of scouts....

 

[OHLTG]

I think I will stick with the report Legend posted on info from a couple of scouts....

I'd hope Flint wouldn't post that if it's against the rules...

 

[RayzorIsDull]

It's ok, you win. I'm not interested in jumping down that rabbit hole.

Out of the two angles you took to nullify Dipietro's value.
The playoff record one didn't hold any water.
The second angle of trading for a lesser goalie and hoping he elevated his play I can understand given the right situations. Although it's contrast to what the numbers say & how vocal you are about that part of the game. Which is fine, people are allowed to change how they view things.

The way I see this playing out is that elite players win in this league. That isn't news to anyone. Dipeitro is an elite player at the most important position. Somebody is going to want him once he's available & will pay the rate that stars go for.

What are you referring to the #'s? Yes DiPietro was voted the leagues best goalie and that's good for him. If we are being honest though there are 4-5 that stacked up right with him. Of course there are other factors involved on how goalies are viewed. For instance if Helvig was voted the leagues best goaltender would that change you opinion on DiPietro? Certainly not. We will see but I wouldn't be surprised if there were 4-5 other goalies again this year that had similar numbers to DiPietro this upcoming season.

This is what I was getting at earlier so DiPietro's playoff record or performance has no bearing on perceived value? If you want to say this year he cemented his status that's fine based upon how he played. Of course but in 16 and 17 he certainly wasn't at that level and this is where I'm getting to this. If DiPietro played at the level he did in the 18 playoffs and did it in 17 they probably beat London. That's not a knock on DiPietro just a point to the up and down nature of how a goalie can perform.

 

[hockeylegend11]

What are you referring to the #'s? Yes DiPietro was voted the leagues best goalie and that's good for him. If we are being honest though there are 4-5 that stacked up right with him. Of course there are other factors involved on how goalies are viewed. For instance if Helvig was voted the leagues best goaltender would that change you opinion on DiPietro? Certainly not. We will see but I wouldn't be surprised if there were 4-5 other goalies again this year that had similar numbers to DiPietro this upcoming season.

This is what I was getting at earlier so DiPietro's playoff record or performance has no bearing on perceived value? If you want to say this year he cemented his status that's fine based upon how he played. Of course but in 16 and 17 he certainly wasn't at that level and this is where I'm getting to this. If DiPietro played at the level he did in the 18 playoffs and did it in 17 they probably beat London. That's not a knock on DiPietro just a point to the up and down nature of how a goalie can perform.

The fact of the matter to me is that Dipietro was not outplayed in the 17 playoffs by Parsons in fact they had near identical goals against average and save per centage, actually take away the phantom goal and his average was slightly better, he allowed less 5 on 5 goals then Parsons,but allowed more PP goals by one btw,and London got that when given a PP with 9 minutes left in a game 7.
He also allowed the same# of goals that Fazio did this year in the playoffs,and did great with Sarnia's PP by not allowing a single goal in the series.
The last 2 playoffs his save per centage averaged .925, in the Mem Cup he allowed 8 goals in 4 games,with a save per centage of .932, outstanding.
Does anyone really think Vancouver would have picked him early in the 3rd round ,the 2nd goalie chosen in the NHL draft,1st North American tender selected,lead his team to a Mem Cup win,all before his 18th birthday, then sign him this year after his playoffs, before his 19th birthday, that they were concerned with his won loss record.I highly doubt it otherwise little of the above would have occurred vis a vis early drafting and signing.
Toss in his work ethic and leadership,it's all encompassing.

 

[OMG67]

It's ok, you win. I'm not interested in jumping down that rabbit hole.

Out of the two angles you took to nullify Dipietro's value.
The playoff record one didn't hold any water.
The second angle of trading for a lesser goalie and hoping he elevated his play I can understand given the right situations. Although it's contrast to what the numbers say & how vocal you are about that part of the game. Which is fine, people are allowed to change how they view things.

The way I see this playing out is that elite players win in this league. That isn't news to anyone. Dipeitro is an elite player at the most important position. Somebody is going to want him once he's available & will pay the rate that stars go for.

I don’t think he was saying he isn’t valuable. He also wasn’t “nullifying” his value. He was diminishing the trade value from the point many have suggested his return will be a record in the OHL.

He also suggested, as well as I did, the position doesn’t generally command the same value as a star centre or D-Man because less teams need a goalie.

This is all speculation and opinion we are debating about. It shouldn’t be considered a personal attack. Unfortunately, there seems to be some bad blood on behalf of a few posters and that is causing those in that clearly longer standing feud to draw lines in the sand on this particular discussion.

Personally, I have enjoyed the discussion on DiPietro because he is a stellar player and I value the opinions of everyone who has weighed in on it. I think we all agree he will be traded. It will be interesting to see what the package is and who seems to be closest with respect to current opinion.

Cheers to all of you who have taken the time to read my posts and thanks for the great summer debate and discussion!

 

[TheGremlin]

What are you referring to the #'s? Yes DiPietro was voted the leagues best goalie and that's good for him. If we are being honest though there are 4-5 that stacked up right with him. Of course there are other factors involved on how goalies are viewed. For instance if Helvig was voted the leagues best goaltender would that change you opinion on DiPietro? Certainly not. We will see but I wouldn't be surprised if there were 4-5 other goalies again this year that had similar numbers to DiPietro this upcoming season.

This is what I was getting at earlier so DiPietro's playoff record or performance has no bearing on perceived value? If you want to say this year he cemented his status that's fine based upon how he played. Of course but in 16 and 17 he certainly wasn't at that level and this is where I'm getting to this. If DiPietro played at the level he did in the 18 playoffs and did it in 17 they probably beat London. That's not a knock on DiPietro just a point to the up and down nature of how a goalie can perform.

Who are the 4-5 goalies that were similar to DiPietro??

 

[OMG67]

Who are the 4-5 goalies that were similar to DiPietro??

Villata, Helvig, Raaymakers, Fazio and Fulcher.

Remember, he isn’t suggesting they were better, nor was he suggesting they were the same. He was suggesting there were 4 or 5 other goalies that were in the discussion. When talking about goalies on a yearly basis, there are the perenial contenders for the nod as top goaltender and then there are the ones that rise above and have a solid year and enter in that discussion.

Fulcher won the LEague Championship. If DiPietro were to have replaced Villata, would SSM have won the Championship? Better question based on cost to acquire, would DiPietro have had a greater impact replacing Villata as opposed to using those assets to acquire Raddysh?

Would DiPietro have been the instrument that Kingston needed to be able to beat Hamilton and go on to the Championship Final replacing Helvig? Again, consider the assets it would cost and maybe a player like Sean Day isn’t able to be acquired because those assets went for DiPietro.

This is the whole point of the arguement. Each of the top teams had a goalie that got them to the top. None of these teams would likely have tried to seriously acquire DiPietro. And that is Razor’s whole point as I understand it. And if he is correct, it would diminish his trade value. That is his point. Whether he is right or not isn’t important.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Just saw this post on London board
Top 5 Goalies GAA average last 3 years with minimum 110 games played
Dipietro-2.55
Helvig-2.60
Fazio- 3.08
Fulcher-3.19
Raaymakers- 3.21

Should note Dipietro is 2 years younger then all but Fulcher and he is a year younger then Fulcher that's impressive.

 

[Teflon]

Omg67 not sure how long you've been here. A certain poster, as im sure I can tell isn't a board fav at all. I'm not sure I'd be agreeing unless I've researched the whole story with him/her. The conversation varies as to how to degrade the Spits every time lol. Not telling u what to do, just dig a bit deeper.

 

[Teflon]

On a side note Perry is back as goalie coach. He was pretty chummy with a young US goalie pre draft. Well liked guy.

 

[OMG67]

Omg67 not sure how long you've been here. A certain poster, as im sure I can tell isn't a board fav at all. I'm not sure I'd be agreeing unless I've researched the whole story with him/her. The conversation varies as to how to degrade the Spits every time lol. Not telling u what to do, just dig a bit deeper.

The advantage I have is I have a clean set of eyes. That allows me to read the posts of this person without the knowledge of the past. So when I read those posts, I don’t have the same bias toward that person you do.

What I am saying is based solely on the posts I read, what he says makes sense and has merit. That said, we all have certain bias that can play with our perceptions.

I can agree with people I dislike or lack respect if what they are saying makes sense. As much as that can be hard to swallow, I try to stay objective in these sorts of discussions.

All that is to say I respect everyone’s opinion provided the opinion has a basis of fact. As previouslyly mentioned, I think both sides of the DiPietro debate have merit. I don’t think either side is really all that far off with respect to variance on trade value and value to a roster. It is just that one side is only looking at DiPietro in a vacuum and the other side is looking at him as an upgrade on what they currently have. If you look at it as an upgrade, you then have to factor in how much that upgrade means. If you look at last year’s top 6 goaltenders, the variance in performance amongst those top six is not that big of a gap. That is that posters point. I can validate that. Of course I think DiPietro is the valid winner of the Goaltender of the Year and will come in as the top dog but it doesn’t mean there aren’t other goalies capable of challenging him for that position. Again, that is the point, with respect to how I read that posters comments regarding trade value and expected return of assets in any potential trade.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Omg67 not sure how long you've been here. A certain poster, as im sure I can tell isn't a board fav at all. I'm not sure I'd be agreeing unless I've researched the whole story with him/her. The conversation varies as to how to degrade the Spits every time lol. Not telling u what to do, just dig a bit deeper.

Actually OMG hit it out of the park for a walk-off. What does anything have to do with being a board fav? Trust me I wouldn't want either you, TG, Legend on my side that's for sure. If you want friends and favorites join a book club.

 

[TheGremlin]

Villata, Helvig, Raaymakers, Fazio and Fulcher.

Remember, he isn’t suggesting they were better, nor was he suggesting they were the same. He was suggesting there were 4 or 5 other goalies that were in the discussion. When talking about goalies on a yearly basis, there are the perenial contenders for the nod as top goaltender and then there are the ones that rise above and have a solid year and enter in that discussion.

Fulcher won the LEague Championship. If DiPietro were to have replaced Villata, would SSM have won the Championship? Better question based on cost to acquire, would DiPietro have had a greater impact replacing Villata as opposed to using those assets to acquire Raddysh?

Would DiPietro have been the instrument that Kingston needed to be able to beat Hamilton and go on to the Championship Final replacing Helvig? Again, consider the assets it would cost and maybe a player like Sean Day isn’t able to be acquired because those assets went for DiPietro.

This is the whole point of the arguement. Each of the top teams had a goalie that got them to the top. None of these teams would likely have tried to seriously acquire DiPietro. And that is Razor’s whole point as I understand it. And if he is correct, it would diminish his trade value. That is his point. Whether he is right or not isn’t important.

I’m only commentting on his comment about how he won goalie of the year But if you base it on numbers there are 4-5 goalies that stack up. I don’t agree with that. The 4-5 goaltenders are probably all on contending teams where as DiPietro was on a rebuilding team. The numbers shouldn’t have been as close as they were and Windsor shouldnt have been a 6th seed. (It is sad your leading scorer at the end of the year was a player that got traded in mid december) DiPietro shouldn’t have led the league in shutouts or really have been top 5 in SV% and GAA. Helvig and Fazio were really the only other goalies that stood out to me. Villalta wasn’t all that impressive. My comments have nothing to do about trading him for this and that. And to answer one of your questions. I do believe DiPietro could have made a bigger difference in the Soo then Raddysh. But that easier to say now after we saw how things went down.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

The advantage I have is I have a clean set of eyes. That allows me to read the posts of this person without the knowledge of the past. So when I read those posts, I don’t have the same bias toward that person you do.

What I am saying is based solely on the posts I read, what he says makes sense and has merit. That said, we all have certain bias that can play with our perceptions.

I can agree with people I dislike or lack respect if what they are saying makes sense. As much as that can be hard to swallow, I try to stay objective in these sorts of discussions.

All that is to say I respect everyone’s opinion provided the opinion has a basis of fact. As previouslyly mentioned, I think both sides of the DiPietro debate have merit. I don’t think either side is really all that far off with respect to variance on trade value and value to a roster. It is just that one side is only looking at DiPietro in a vacuum and the other side is looking at him as an upgrade on what they currently have. If you look at it as an upgrade, you then have to factor in how much that upgrade means. If you look at last year’s top 6 goaltenders, the variance in performance amongst those top six is not that big of a gap. That is that posters point. I can validate that. Of course I think DiPietro is the valid winner of the Goaltender of the Year and will come in as the top dog but it doesn’t mean there aren’t other goalies capable of challenging him for that position. Again, that is the point, with respect to how I read that posters comments regarding trade value and expected return of assets in any potential trade.

This is 100% correct not everything is black and white, obviously shades of grey with everything. A lot of people here are adults some are capable of looking at each post as it is instead of accusing someone as having an agenda. You could categorize every poster as having an agenda but that would be a fruitless endeavor since this is only a message board and you can never put a name to a face and make a read on that person based on their posts. I can say without a doubt you have stayed extremely objective.

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

I’m only commentting on his comment about how he won goalie of the year But if you base it on numbers there are 4-5 goalies that stack up. I don’t agree with that. The 4-5 goaltenders are probably all on contending teams where as DiPietro was on a rebuilding team. The numbers shouldn’t have been as close as they were and Windsor shouldnt have been a 6th seed. (It is sad your leading scorer at the end of the year was a player that got traded in mid december) DiPietro shouldn’t have led the league in shutouts or really have been top 5 in SV% and GAA. Helvig and Fazio were really the only other goalies that stood out to me. Villalta wasn’t all that impressive. My comments have nothing to do about trading him for this and that. And to answer one of your questions. I do believe DiPietro could have made a bigger difference in the Soo then Raddysh. But that easier to say now after we saw how things went down.

OK this is getting out of hand, comparing goalies of different ages, different teams, yadda yadda yadda.
First of all DiPeitro has never played on a rebuilding team, other than this past season after Windsor's sell off and it was heading South in a hurry until they reinstituted their defensive system that helped win them the Mem cup. FACT
2nd of all DiPeitro has never been the top goalie listed statistically across the board in the ohl...he has had impressive numbers in certain areas but never listed as number 1. FACT
3rd He has never been on a team that made it out of the 1st round of playoffs. FACT
I could go on and on with facts but the fact of the matter is Dipeitro is only worth what a team is willing to pay. All these numbers and statements on "he can do this and he can do that" is ridiculous. Someone was so foolish enough to say that Dipeitro will shine (or something to that effect) when he gets on a contender....for Christ's sake he has been on a top 10 team in the ohl his whole career (Yeah I know they were 11th last year but that was only because of the sell off.) and he has the numbers to support that but he is hardly the second coming of Christ who for the past 3 years has single-handedly carried the Windsor Spitfires and dominated every other goalie in the league.
I say none of this denigrate Michael DiPeitro or his accomplishments in his young career and wish him the best of luck. But come on guys, open your eyes, get of the koolaid....yes DiPeitro can walk on water but so can every other hockey player....because it is frozen.

 

[youngblood10]

Those who follow the Spits have a good idea of just how big of a roll Dipietro plays. When he does move on people will ask & wonder why the Spits are sliding or underachieveing, much like the Attack as a resent example once McNiven graduated. Hopefully, for the Spits I'm wrong & with average to good goaltending, overall team maturation & development its negligible as been argued on the flip side of the trade debate. We shall see.

 

[TheGremlin]

OK this is getting out of hand, comparing goalies of different ages, different teams, yadda yadda yadda.
First of all DiPeitro has never played on a rebuilding team, other than this past season after Windsor's sell off and it was heading South in a hurry until they reinstituted their defensive system that helped win them the Mem cup. FACT
2nd of all DiPeitro has never been the top goalie listed statistically across the board in the ohl...he has had impressive numbers in certain areas but never listed as number 1. FACT
3rd He has never been on a team that made it out of the 1st round of playoffs. FACT
I could go on and on with facts but the fact of the matter is Dipeitro is only worth what a team is willing to pay. All these numbers and statements on "he can do this and he can do that" is ridiculous. Someone was so foolish enough to say that Dipeitro will shine (or something to that effect) when he gets on a contender....for Christ's sake he has been on a top 10 team in the ohl his whole career (Yeah I know they were 11th last year but that was only because of the sell off.) and he has the numbers to support that but he is hardly the second coming of Christ who for the past 3 years has single-handedly carried the Windsor Spitfires and dominated every other goalie in the league.
I say none of this denigrate Michael DiPeitro or his accomplishments in his young career and wish him the best of luck. But come on guys, open your eyes, get of the koolaid....yes DiPeitro can walk on water but so can every other hockey player....because it is frozen.

So in order to be the top goalie you have to rank 1st statisically?? Who was the last goalie to rank 1st across the board?? What stats do you go by to determine this? My post have nothing to do about his value in a trade. But i agree that just like every player there worth is only what someone is willing to offer. When it comes to players in their last years i’d like them to just get what they can as something better then nothing.

 

[windsor7]

When n where dipietto gets traded some will say it was a great deal no matter how few or many pics and a player Windsor gets for him. It's all sunshine n rainbows.
I predict it now!

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

Tibe79, I wasn't singling you out, it was just how you worded your post that caught my attention. DiPeitro stands alone on his individual merits and accomplishments. The biggest challenge in hockey is finding a way to effectively evaluate and rate goaltenders; it has been known for awhile that stats alone are no longer sufficient. A lot of junior superstars are not able to make the jump to the next level.
A buddy of mine working in the nhl told me they had to force their scouts to go watch DiPeitro, not because he wasn't good but because he didn't meet their criteria for an nhl caliber goaltender. Their scouts said it didn't matter what he accomplished at the ohl level they would never ever draft him, so what was the point in scouting him.
It just goes to show you how different people view players, one nhl club didn't like him but another it did. Same thing will happen when he is traded to Ottawa.

 

[TheGremlin]

Tibe79, I wasn't singling you out, it was just how you worded your post that caught my attention. DiPeitro stands alone on his individual merits and accomplishments. The biggest challenge in hockey is finding a way to effectively evaluate and rate goaltenders; it has been known for awhile that stats alone are no longer sufficient. A lot of junior superstars are not able to make the jump to the next level.
A buddy of mine working in the nhl told me they had to force their scouts to go watch DiPeitro, not because he wasn't good but because he didn't meet their criteria for an nhl caliber goaltender. Their scouts said it didn't matter what he accomplished at the ohl level they would never ever draft him, so what was the point in scouting him.
It just goes to show you how different people view players, one nhl club didn't like him but another it did. Same thing will happen when he is traded to Ottawa.

I agree about NHL. Now a days you need to be at least 6’3 to fit most teams criteria. I’m up in the air how DiPietro will do at NHL level. He is small by NHL standards but hopefully his quickness and athletic ability and hard work pays off for him. I’m not sure there will ever be a way to effectively scout goalies or players for that matter.

 

[punch1943]

Flint trades pick for O/A goalie Vella per GM Barklay Branch (son of you know who) so it appears the OHL trade window is officially open..