Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Season Thread

[RayzorIsDull]

Not at all, the choices aren't one or the other. I've brought the question down to the lowest common denominator. Basically, one game knock out everything is even who do you want in your net.... It wasn't a trick question, just wondered who you would want on your team. It's all a matter of opinion. But if you want to be cute about it, I'm good with moving on from trying to have a civil conversation with you.

If I had DiPietro I would like my chances. I wouldn't want to throw assets and acquire a top goalie. I am surprised people are really sold out this one game winner take all and DiPietro coming out on top. Just a few months ago the best goalie in the CHL had a 1 game winner take all go to the Memorial Cup. Carter Hart gave up 2 goals and they lost 3-0. Hart had a .947 sv% 1.60 gaa during the regular season, had a 2.40 and .921 sv% in the WHL playoffs and that didn't get them a WHL championship. Stuart Skinner the opposing goalie 3.38 .897 sv% in regular season, in the playoffs 2.20 .932 sv%. I am sure nobody would have thought Skinner was going to play like he did hence he's a goalie that got hot for 6-7 weeks. I'm not trying to be cute Nelli and OMG got my point not sure why you didn't.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Why would you blame him for six playoff games? He literally kept the Spitfires in the Sarnia series when they were being dominated. He also had all-star caliber numbers in the London series, despite losing. He's far from the reason they lost those two series. Saying "he hasn't won in the playoffs" isn't fair in the least. What more could have done for the club?



Why would trading for DiPietro be "blowing your brains out"? That's... a strange analogy.



Ask the Tigers how having an average closer is going...



Would you rather have DiPietro in net for a one-game, winner-take-all or a lesser goaltender? We both know you'd take DiPietro. If a team has the assets to get him, and are in the proper place, they're going to make an offer.



Just six weeks? That's it? Pffft... well, when you put it that way... (psssst, Windsor 2010, Erie 2017...)

This might be one of the weirdest debates I've seen on here in a long time. We have, arguably, the best goaltender in Spitfires' history on the roster and there's actually pushback to how valuable he is in a trade because of the team's lack of playoff success. That's actually funny to me.

Nobody is saying it's his fault but it goes to his whole body of work. He doesn't have to be the reason they lost but they didn't win the series either. You say it's not fair to put the blame on him but life isn't fair either and it's just reality that he hasn't backstopped Windsor to a playoff series victory either.

You said a few months ago you think DiPietro would get the most picks in a trade in OHL history 9-10 picks and a player. I can show you that post again, so if that isn't the definition of blowing your brains out I don't know what would be.

The Tigers are a horrible baseball team because of a poor roster not because they have an average closer.

Asked and answered previously.

Yes 6 weeks just like Stuart Skinner did this year in the WHL, just like the rookie for Seattle Stankowski who helped Seattle win a WHL title with a torn hip labrum. Just like Fulcher who had no track record of playoff success helping Hamilton win. So you say that's it but playoffs are full of goaltenders that get hot for 6 weeks. You want to go pfft but that's what playoff hockey is it's not always the best goalie or best decorated goalie that backstops a team it's the goalie that gets hot.

So that's funny to you??? Keep that attitude up.

 

[OHLTG]

You say it's not fair to put the blame on him but life isn't fair either and it's just reality that he hasn't backstopped Windsor to a playoff series victory either.

He did everything but win the Sarnia series for them. He put up world-class numbers. I'd say he was as good as he could have been and placing even 0.1% blame on him is insane.

You said a few months ago you think DiPietro would get the most picks in a trade in OHL history 9-10 picks and a player. I can show you that post again, so if that isn't the definition of blowing your brains out I don't know what would be.

Again, "blowing your brains out" is a weird analogy. Pretty sure that's not the definition, either. Would it be an odd move to deal 9 picks + player? Sure. Could a team do it? Ask Barrie/Miss about Nizhikov (sp?).

The Tigers are a horrible baseball team because of a poor roster not because they have an average closer.

I didn't mean this year and you should know about Tigers and closers.

You want to go pfft but that's what playoff hockey is it's not always the best goalie or best decorated goalie that backstops a team it's the goalie that gets hot.

If you're a team that's on the brink of being a contender, do you want to risk an average-to-above-average goaltender taking you all the way, or do you want to get the best you can?

So that's funny to you??? Keep that attitude up.

I plan on it. This entire debate is hilarious.

 

[OMG67]

Nobody is saying it's his fault but it goes to his whole body of work. He doesn't have to be the reason they lost but they didn't win the series either. You say it's not fair to put the blame on him but life isn't fair either and it's just reality that he hasn't backstopped Windsor to a playoff series victory either.

You said a few months ago you think DiPietro would get the most picks in a trade in OHL history 9-10 picks and a player. I can show you that post again, so if that isn't the definition of blowing your brains out I don't know what would be.

The Tigers are a horrible baseball team because of a poor roster not because they have an average closer.

Asked and answered previously.

Yes 6 weeks just like Stuart Skinner did this year in the WHL, just like the rookie for Seattle Stankowski who helped Seattle win a WHL title with a torn hip labrum. Just like Fulcher who had no track record of playoff success helping Hamilton win. So you say that's it but playoffs are full of goaltenders that get hot for 6 weeks. You want to go pfft but that's what playoff hockey is it's not always the best goalie or best decorated goalie that backstops a team it's the goalie that gets hot.

So that's funny to you??? Keep that attitude up.

I can understand the thought process on both sides. I mean, Sidney Crosby is the best hockey player in the World and he won two Stanley Cups. He played a pretty big roll in that. Connor McDavid is the heir apparent and his team didn’t even make the playoffs. The reality is one player doesn’t make a Championship in hockey.

But, on the other side, when you start to look at what players are more likely to give you a better chance of winning, the players with a high degree of pedigree fetch more in trade. The 67’s went the cheap route last year and picked up an OA goalie waived through the QMJHL last year because he was one of those goalies that got hot for a few weeks to end the previous season and had a good playoff. Unfortunately, he shit the bed and the 67’s were losing game after game where they easily outplayed their competition.

So, I can see both sides here.

I think it is silly to think DiPietro would garner the highest trade value of all time in the OHL. However just because I think that it doesn’t mean he won’t.

At the same time, if I were to pick a goalie, I still think he is the best one in our league so he’d provide the most return. The question will always be whether his VALUE is worthy he return.

The 67’s have an OA spot available and if there is an OA that he a strong background then I think that is a better way to go for overall value. But, that would mean they’d probably have to add a #1 D-Man to the mix. So either way they are probably looking at parting with some significant assets if they want to win a Championship, which is usually the case for all teams that want to win a Championship.

DiPietro is a great player. He has a couple knocks against him with respect to playoff success. That is raw data. You cannot argue agaisnt it. All that matters is how much the acquiring team cares. I doubt that would be a significant factor but it will be a factor if other goalies become available at a much cheaper cost.

 

[tomschman]

Are you sure? Last year Merrick Rippon was dealt on August 1st...

I also thought the trade embargo was lifted on the 1st. But I believe that even if it is the 1st, DiPietro can not be traded until the Junior Showcase is complete on August 4th.

Speaking of which, DiPietro gave up 5 goals in 29 minutes today against a US split squad.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I can understand the thought process on both sides. I mean, Sidney Crosby is the best hockey player in the World and he won two Stanley Cups. He played a pretty big roll in that. Connor McDavid is the heir apparent and his team didn’t even make the playoffs. The reality is one player doesn’t make a Championship in hockey.

But, on the other side, when you start to look at what players are more likely to give you a better chance of winning, the players with a high degree of pedigree fetch more in trade. The 67’s went the cheap route last year and picked up an OA goalie waived through the QMJHL last year because he was one of those goalies that got hot for a few weeks to end the previous season and had a good playoff. Unfortunately, he **** the bed and the 67’s were losing game after game where they easily outplayed their competition.

So, I can see both sides here.

I think it is silly to think DiPietro would garner the highest trade value of all time in the OHL. However just because I think that it doesn’t mean he won’t.

At the same time, if I were to pick a goalie, I still think he is the best one in our league so he’d provide the most return. The question will always be whether his VALUE is worthy he return.

The 67’s have an OA spot available and if there is an OA that he a strong background then I think that is a better way to go for overall value. But, that would mean they’d probably have to add a #1 D-Man to the mix. So either way they are probably looking at parting with some significant assets if they want to win a Championship, which is usually the case for all teams that want to win a Championship.

DiPietro is a great player. He has a couple knocks against him with respect to playoff success. That is raw data. You cannot argue agaisnt it. All that matters is how much the acquiring team cares. I doubt that would be a significant factor but it will be a factor if other goalies become available at a much cheaper cost.

Terrific post and this is what my post was about whether or not the value would justify the cost. I think what we are seeing is more and more teams are being conservative with their assets and moving them. You may get a team like Kingston or Hamilton otherwise teams find it better to continually have a solid foundation being good year to year.

 

[SpItFiReZ]

Not sure if it’s been posted but Dominick Fensore is going to BU.

 

[randomhero4life]

"Again, "blowing your brains out" is a weird analogy. Pretty sure that's not the definition, either. Would it be an odd move to deal 9 picks + player? Sure. Could a team do it? Ask Barrie/Miss about Nizhikov (sp?). "

It's just tasteless terminology, and yes it is a weird way to describe a team moving multiple players in a trade. I believe that there is a fine line when it comes to fact and fiction on here. Truth is nobody know's or can predict who or when DiPi is traded/traded for. It is good to see people throw opinions....as that is what a message board is all about. Anything can happen all you have to do is look how the 2017-2018 CHL & NHL season's played out!! Because of this a lot of people's opinions and predictions were proven completly wrong, and some people opinions that were at one time scoffed at in some case's very rudely ....all of a sudden are not so stupid. People that claim to have "inside" information on certain things this past season were exposed as complete liar's as well. I am of the mindset of "if and when" but comfortable to let it play out. I am looking forward to training camp!!

 

[windsor7]

Trade window moved.
Great.. more talk about trades though nothing going to happen.

 

[Naz]

Trade window moved.
Great.. more talk about trades though nothing going to happen.

? trade window move to when,I thought it opened up Aug 1st but never heard about it moving.

 

[punch1943]

Do you remember when the OHL last gave us a heads up on something? I sure as hell don’t......

 

[ohloutsider]

In the "OHL Trading" thread I did spell this out- they do adjust the trade deadlines year to year based on how the dates fall and line up to weekends. August 1st is the "usual" date but it gets moved year to year depending how it lines up with the long weekend ( can't ruin Branch's last week at the cottage). They never release actual dates to the public but teams know the dates . Each milestone throughout the year is adjusted to suit the leagues needs not the fans. Us hardcore fans want and must know these dates but for the average fan they probably don't care.

 

[youngblood10]

If I had DiPietro I would like my chances. I wouldn't want to throw assets and acquire a top goalie. I am surprised people are really sold out this one game winner take all and DiPietro coming out on top. Just a few months ago the best goalie in the CHL had a 1 game winner take all go to the Memorial Cup. Carter Hart gave up 2 goals and they lost 3-0. Hart had a .947 sv% 1.60 gaa during the regular season, had a 2.40 and .921 sv% in the WHL playoffs and that didn't get them a WHL championship. Stuart Skinner the opposing goalie 3.38 .897 sv% in regular season, in the playoffs 2.20 .932 sv%. I am sure nobody would have thought Skinner was going to play like he did hence he's a goalie that got hot for 6-7 weeks. I'm not trying to be cute Nelli and OMG got my point not sure why you didn't.

I understand your point, I found your response to be word gymnastics to add qualifiers to the question I proposed. As if wanting Dipietro to be your goalie was a bad thing. I'd select him, so would the vast majority in the junior hockey world.

With your history of having a statistically heavy scope, I'm surprised that you would be willing to give up the assets needed for a lesser probability (hoping a goalie gets hot) than the assets needed for the higher probability (proven high level goaltending) in the scenario you have presented.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

"Again, "blowing your brains out" is a weird analogy. Pretty sure that's not the definition, either. Would it be an odd move to deal 9 picks + player? Sure. Could a team do it? Ask Barrie/Miss about Nizhikov (sp?). "

It's just tasteless terminology, and yes it is a weird way to describe a team moving multiple players in a trade. I believe that there is a fine line when it comes to fact and fiction on here. Truth is nobody know's or can predict who or when DiPi is traded/traded for. It is good to see people throw opinions....as that is what a message board is all about. Anything can happen all you have to do is look how the 2017-2018 CHL & NHL season's played out!! Because of this a lot of people's opinions and predictions were proven completly wrong, and some people opinions that were at one time scoffed at in some case's very rudely ....all of a sudden are not so stupid. People that claim to have "inside" information on certain things this past season were exposed as complete liar's as well. I am of the mindset of "if and when" but comfortable to let it play out. I am looking forward to training camp!!

Well yes people throw out rumors and bash opinions and want to run down other people for opinions. That's the nature of the board. People have an opinion contrary to the masses run it down. People throw out names of opposing players rumored in trades that never happen bow down to the person with "inside information."

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I understand your point, I found your response to be word gymnastics to add qualifiers to the question I proposed. As if wanting Dipietro to be your goalie was a bad thing. I'd select him, so would the vast majority in the junior hockey world.

With your history of having a statistically heavy scope, I'm surprised that you would be willing to give up the assets needed for a lesser probability (hoping a goalie gets hot) than the assets needed for the higher probability (proven high level goaltending) in the scenario you have presented.

I just believe a lot of goalies are interchangeable when it comes time to the playoffs. There's more value in having DiPietro for 50 regular season games as compared to a best of 7 series. I just looked at the last few years and the goalies up for CHL goaltender of the year and the only one to be nominated that played in the Memorial Cup was Phillipe Desrosiers and he did not played particularly well that year in the Memorial Cup.

For instance if I was to say out of the 16 playoff teams I will take the top 2 seeds in each conference, if one of those teams has DiPietro you can have that team but I will take the next highest team. So you get 11 playoff teams and whatever team has DiPietro and I get 4 of the top 5. Who are you going to take?

 

[Ward Cornell]

In my opinion, DiPietro is the league's best goalie, and I have no doubt that he would flourish on any contending team. Having said that, Rayzor, you make a good point here because it's not all black and white. For instance, what if the price tag for DiPietro is so steep that it ends up handicapping the team that acquires him? How so? Let's say Windsor demands a young 67s player as PART of the deal who happens to be a valuable member/contributor to his team's current success. The deal won't go through unless Ottawa agrees to part with this player. If you're Ottawa, do you move this young talent and lose a key piece of the puzzle in the hope that DiPietro's heroics will outweigh the loss? OR, do you go with 'Plan B'? Perhaps, trade for some other goalie (NOT as good as DiPietro) but still a clear upgrade in goal, and keep the aforementioned young player?
What I'm trying to say is that DiPietro is hands down any team's first choice, all things being equal, but there may be other considerations such as the hypothetical example that I made up. And, that's why a cost-benefit analysis might prove useful, and I think Rayzor you were alluding to something like that if I understood correctly, and that makes perfect sense to me.

While he may have a dismal W/L Playoff Series record, it's safe to say he hasn't lost any series with his play! I suspect on a wee bit better team that record would be reversed. On a worse team it may be the same!

Agree 100% with your post!

 

[OHLTG]

People throw out names of opposing players rumored in trades that never happen bow down to the person with "inside information."

This happens everywhere. It's 100% normal.

There's more value in having DiPietro for 50 regular season games as compared to a best of 7 series.

But if those 50 games are for a team that's struggling, and that 7-game series is OHL conference finals (or just finals), there's a massive difference in value.

For instance if I was to say out of the 16 playoff teams I will take the top 2 seeds in each conference, if one of those teams has DiPietro you can have that team but I will take the next highest team. So you get 11 playoff teams and whatever team has DiPietro and I get 4 of the top 5. Who are you going to take?

Did DiPietro do something to you to make you this cranky towards him? It's just odd to me - he's likely the best goaltender Windsor has ever had but you're saying he won't make a difference come playoff time. Frankly, if a 3-5 seed gets DiPietro come playoff time, I'm not counting them out. We know what this kid can do.

 

[OMG67]

Do you remember when the OHL last gave us a heads up on something? I sure as hell don’t......

YEs, they do!

Look at the Suspensions. Sometimes they have “Indefinite” beside the suspension. They just gave us a heads up that the kid will be suspended BUT they need a week or two to figure out which way the wind is blowing at that time so their decision has the least amount of blowback possible.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

This happens everywhere. It's 100% normal.



But if those 50 games are for a team that's struggling, and that 7-game series is OHL conference finals (or just finals), there's a massive difference in value.



Did DiPietro do something to you to make you this cranky towards him? It's just odd to me - he's likely the best goaltender Windsor has ever had but you're saying he won't make a difference come playoff time. Frankly, if a 3-5 seed gets DiPietro come playoff time, I'm not counting them out. We know what this kid can do.

That violates certain guidelines. Such as
8) Claims of Insider Information/ Rumors & Hearsay: If you're an insider, contact us with proof BEFORE you post. These posts will be allowed/rejected at the discretion of administrators after consulting with other posters, moderators, and relevant sources. Deference will be given to veteran members who have established credibility. It's not acceptable to post that you heard someone has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source. Other forums, personal websites, amateur/unvetted blogs, hearsay, and personal testimonials are not considered credible.

Well yes if you have a team that can get to that level it matters. Here's the rub we have seen it first hand when a better statistical goalie still can't hold up against a better team. It's worked out in Windsor's favor and against.

No I am not cranky towards him I think he's right up there with the likes of Leighton, Campbell, Engelage, Grubauer but the swooning over DiPietro is a little over the top imo. That doesn't mean I am cranky towards him nor am I saying he doesn't have more potential than the above mentioned goalies. It just means it's not a black or white issue there are shades of grey. The issue is others want to make it a black and white issue. My point has always been you're limited in buyers to begin with that would want a top goalie whether they already have one, or they aren't flush with picks. Hence DiPietro might not be the most highly sought after goalie or the only goalie viewed that can put their team over the top. I get the idea some believe DiPietro is the only goalie in the league that could win an OHL championship this upcoming year.

 

[OHLTG]

That violates certain guidelines. Such as

That's not what you said, though. You said people thrown names out there in rumours that'll never happen and then they "bow down" to people with "inside information." THAT happens everywhere. People always talk about rumours and such, then RT/Share info from the "insiders."

Here's the rub we have seen it first hand when a better statistical goalie still can't hold up against a better team. It's worked out in Windsor's favor and against.

Would you rather have DiPietro in net for one game or a lesser goaltender, regardless of team in front of him?

but the swooning over DiPietro is a little over the top imo.

When you've put up record numbers for a team, you're going to get people going "okay, he's pretty awesome." I mean, if you can't do that with one of the best all-time, who CAN you do it with?

My point has always been you're limited in buyers to begin with that would want a top goalie whether they already have one, or they aren't flush with picks.

That takes zero away from DiPietro, though. Frankly, if every team COULD afford him, he'd be worth less to me.

Hence DiPietro might not be the most highly sought after goalie or the only goalie viewed that can put their team over the top. I get the idea some believe DiPietro is the only goalie in the league that could win an OHL championship this upcoming year.

That's not what we're saying, though. Other goaltenders could, in theory, do the same thing. Are the chances as high, though? No. If you're a team with enough assets to get the job done, do you risk getting a lesser goaltender and hope he gets hot, or use the assets to get something proven and go for it? Windsor tried the lesser approach before DiPietro and it didn't pan out. Owen Sound did the same thing last season - didn't pan out. It'll be tough to see DiPietro go but a team is likely to see the benefit and they'll pay up.

 

[Teflon]

It's amusing that the guy who pounds the numbers as all relevant is willing to hope a goalie gets hot instead of getting the guy who is #1?!?! Your complaining about those speaking out of turn when that's your main point of view? I'm sorry but for folks to be taken seriously your info should be labeled as opinion or at some point your comments should hold water if that's your intent. If your here looking to chat or glean some info that's awesome to. I love speculation, makes for some great chats. JMHO tho.

 

[OMG67]

It's amusing that the guy who pounds the numbers as all relevant is willing to hope a goalie gets hot instead of getting the guy who is #1?!?! Your complaining about those speaking out of turn when that's your main point of view? I'm sorry but for folks to be taken seriously your info should be labeled as opinion or at some point your comments should hold water if that's your intent. If your here looking to chat or glean some info that's awesome to. I love speculation, makes for some great chats. JMHO tho.

I dont believe he was suggesting this was a black and white issue. I believe the perspective presented suggested that a team can and has quite often won a Championship with a capable goalie. So his point was that if the team is good, it can and does win with a capable goalie that gets hot at the right time. Conversely, stellar goalies can be more than fine but be out played by a lesser goalie playing above their average.

So, the point really was that if a team is strong and they have capable goaltending, they will still win. Hamilton proved that this past season. Many other teams have proven that in the past. It is why Chris Osgoode has multiple Stanley Cups.

This isn’t about going into a season on a wing and a prayer hoping your goalie gets hot. It is about ensuring your goaltending is at least “good enough” to backstop a strong team through a long playoff run.

DiPietro can win games by himself but some teams only need their goalie to not lose the game.

 

[OHLTG]

Regarding the trade freeze, take this how you will...

Flint Firebirds‏Verified account @FlintFirebirds
We have a trade to announce...Details coming Thursday
5:14 PM - 1 Aug 2018

 

[RayzorIsDull]

That's not what you said, though. You said people thrown names out there in rumours that'll never happen and then they "bow down" to people with "inside information." THAT happens everywhere. People always talk about rumours and such, then RT/Share info from the "insiders."



Would you rather have DiPietro in net for one game or a lesser goaltender, regardless of team in front of him?



When you've put up record numbers for a team, you're going to get people going "okay, he's pretty awesome." I mean, if you can't do that with one of the best all-time, who CAN you do it with?



That takes zero away from DiPietro, though. Frankly, if every team COULD afford him, he'd be worth less to me.



That's not what we're saying, though. Other goaltenders could, in theory, do the same thing. Are the chances as high, though? No. If you're a team with enough assets to get the job done, do you risk getting a lesser goaltender and hope he gets hot, or use the assets to get something proven and go for it? Windsor tried the lesser approach before DiPietro and it didn't pan out. Owen Sound did the same thing last season - didn't pan out. It'll be tough to see DiPietro go but a team is likely to see the benefit and they'll pay up.

What are you even talking about? I said that someone here during the trade deadline said this player was offered up for that one it never amounted to bupkus. You're the perfect example rationalizing it even though it violates the terms. In fact I think it's absolutely hilarious that you decided that response because you and I know the answer.

Asked and answered previously.

Nobody has said he's not a very good goalie.

 

[youngblood10]

I just believe a lot of goalies are interchangeable when it comes time to the playoffs. There's more value in having DiPietro for 50 regular season games as compared to a best of 7 series. I just looked at the last few years and the goalies up for CHL goaltender of the year and the only one to be nominated that played in the Memorial Cup was Phillipe Desrosiers and he did not played particularly well that year in the Memorial Cup.

For instance if I was to say out of the 16 playoff teams I will take the top 2 seeds in each conference, if one of those teams has DiPietro you can have that team but I will take the next highest team. So you get 11 playoff teams and whatever team has DiPietro and I get 4 of the top 5. Who are you going to take?

It's ok, you win. I'm not interested in jumping down that rabbit hole.

Out of the two angles you took to nullify Dipietro's value.
The playoff record one didn't hold any water.
The second angle of trading for a lesser goalie and hoping he elevated his play I can understand given the right situations. Although it's contrast to what the numbers say & how vocal you are about that part of the game. Which is fine, people are allowed to change how they view things.

The way I see this playing out is that elite players win in this league. That isn't news to anyone. Dipeitro is an elite player at the most important position. Somebody is going to want him once he's available & will pay the rate that stars go for.