Johansen2Foligno
CBJ Realest
- Jan 2, 2015
- 9,253
- 4,174
Both.
Who are we firing, though?
Wennberg.
Both.
Who are we firing, though?
Imo 2015 could possibly be one of the best drafys in CBJ history depending on how Carlsson and Gavrikov turn out.One of the arguments against trading Panarin/Bob would be Jarmo's awful first round draft record below pick #8.
Dano, Rychel, Wennberg (2013)
Milano (2014)
Carlsson (2015) too early to evaluate
Foudy (2017) same
2013 and 2014 don't look very good as of today.
I don't think we are in win now mode right now. There are clearly a couple of steps left to take to hang with TOR and TBL from a talent perspective. If Bob and Panarin walk, they go back to the beginning of the development path in my opinion. If Bob and Panarin stay, they should go into win now more for the next 2-3 years starting next year while they are at the top of their game.
Seems to me that there's a third option - stay the course with who you have, make some tweaks and then see what happens in the postseason.
I don't really think of this team as a 'cup' contender, but I do think of them as a challenger that could make things interesting if they win a round (or two). For that reason I am not inclined to trade picks for players, but I am also not inclined to trade players for picks. I know this is the Internet, but there is a middle ground here that OP is missing.
However, I do see the argument of "you don't know how prospects/picks will develop. Go for it now." It's a really tough call.
I might agree, but I'm not sure how the Panarin/Bob trade or not trade decision fits in this. That decision is almost certainly going to be more important than what other moves we make. Is it "stay the course" if we let them play out their deals and walk? There isn't a neutral option.
The Panarin/Bob situations muddy this up pretty badly. If the 2 were signed, I'd push the envelope a bit for winning now. .
That's my "go for it" perspective. Specifically, I'm interested in an upgrade at the #2C position. I'd prefer picking up someone ready now who can stick around for a few years, but short-term improvement is also acceptable. I'm also willing to accept the possibility that the upgrade will come from within by way of Wennberg learning to shoot more often, but that seems rather improbable at this point.Also, I have to ask, when people say go for it, do they mean picking up some hefty rentals? Or do we mean just plugging some holes like the Cole and Vanek acquisitions?
Seems like the opinions are pretty well split 50/50 on this question. Good discussion. Actually don't feel like this team is a contender as currently built. They fight for every win, probably make a playoff appearance, but not enough to go beyond that. Talent level (coaching) just doesn't match up with the good teams. It will be interesting if they decide to go all in while having Panarin and Bob, or decide to pull the plug based on the outlook. Should make the trade deadline very interesting.
The Talent vs Coaching could be its own thread.Explain this.
The Talent vs Coaching could be its own thread.
Is it the talent? As with many teams, CBJ has some players that just don't seem to have a lot of skill. Hustle yes, (Sedlak, Dubi, Nash, Harrington.....), skills, maybe not so much.
But they also have some fine players like Panarin, PLD, Atkinson, Jones, Werenski. These 5 alone should be a fine PP unit, but they aren't on the same PP unit. We have Wenny and captain Nick often on the 1st pp unit, and they just don't put the puck in the net.
Also lines (and coaching duties for that matter) are constantly juggled. Some players benched, others never held to account. Just no consistency.
So is the talent on par with Tampa, Toronto, Nashville or others, or is the talent on the team not being used to the fullest? Probably a bit of both.
I think the team has a punchers chance of winning a payoff series, but a cup, not so much. That's why they just don't seem to match up well with the better teams.
My favorite indicator of talent level in that regard is how consistently vicious this team is in reduced even-strength situations (4on4, 3on3), where talent arguably has a greater impact.I'll agree with you on the PP part. We're long overdue to see this:
------------- Jones
Werenski - Atkinson - Panarin
------------- Dubois
It's seeming more and more likely that Torts just doesn't have a clue about the PP.
Our 5v5 lines, on the other hand, are more consistent than most clubs, believe it or not. And if you think Torts isn't holding players to account, I'd ask whether you were around under Coach Richards, where a players ice time was rarely adjusted to performance.
Explain this.
Hard to argue that we don't have skill with Panarin, PLD, Cam, Jones, Werenski & Bob. Wennberg, OB, Duclair are skilled they either don't show it (Wennie) or are given limited opportunites to exhibit it.
Where the problem lies is below that tier and in the overall consistency of the team. Many games the Jackets are flailing around and then boom a play happens and a goal is scored. You watch TB for example and their skill is deep and is on constant display.
A big part of me says it is coaching. Torts, I believe, is on record saying he doesn't teach offense. I would love to see what Babcock or Cooper could get out of this team. My hunch is more.
Purely one guys opinion without relying on stats just my eyes and intuition.